French starters

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock, getting burned by a hot cauldron is much more likely
I would not preheat the cauldron

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock, just a few days ago I read in the subject of Lyudmila exactly the same question. She replied that it is not necessary to heat what you are covering, as the "cover" heats up very quickly.

Got it. But the alignment has changed. My bread, after putting it out of the proofing cup, somehow crawled very much. Do not cover it with any cauldron. I had to urgently drag the stone to the upper shelf and pour water to the bottom of the oven. Well, and stuck a saucepan of warm water.

And I, when I bake in a gosper, I heat it together with the lid. It is cast iron, so it does not immediately heat up. And if not in a cast iron, then I put a form with water (boiling) on ​​the bottom of the oven, and I can also pop a couple of times from the spray bottle.

Something is not going well with me today. The bread is more like a pancake. Fragrant, it tastes good, even the structure is interesting, but he has a vidocq ... Nothing foreshadowed such a course of events. Dough was bubbling - a song. I think it's the torment. The dough came out suspiciously thin. And here's the result. I don't even want to take a picture. But it will cool down, I'll show you what happened.

Tan, my Italian is exactly the same today. It just ended very quickly

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock, threatened to reduce the temperature and clearly reduced it!

The temperature of what, baking or proofing? For me, it was so blurred while it came up

My proofing also went wrong somehow. The dough came slowly, and towards the end, tears appeared on top of it. When removed from the proofing cup, it blurred and remained so until the end.

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock, and when proofing with a bag on top did not try to cover? Breaks can be the result of winding.
And the stone (tile) should be well warmed up. The oven temperature may already be sufficient and the cooker may not yet warm up. I warm mine for a long time. Here's a look: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=4994.0should help.

[Viki]

Viki, and how long do you heat the tiles? I stood for 20 minutes, Not enough, right?
I saw these videos, there are questions about the little things. Post 993 look, please. I know about the bags. Instead of a bag, I cover the proofing cup with a plastic lid. Yesterday, after 50 minutes of proofing in the microwave under the lid, the dough increased very little. Then I opened the lid and put a cup of hot water in there. The dough increased, not like the previous white bread, but still, and tears appeared on top. Of course, because it was windy, but before that three times everything was OK. True, the dough there was different, without whole grain flour.

In general, there is no way to devour the results of training. In the coming days, I am studying theory. Even here now I will splash my tongue and be late for work. In the evening I will come to talk about the topic. There are questions about sourdoughs.

Something is not going well with me today. The bread is more like a pancake. Fragrant, tastes good, even the structure is interesting, but he has a vidocq ... Nothing foreshadowed such a course of events. Dough was bubbling - a song. I think it's the torment. The dough came out suspiciously thin.

I think that the dough turned out to be watery!
And it stopped a little, because the cracks have already gone

I think that the dough turned out to be watery!
And it stopped a little, because the cracks have already gone

Exactly - exactly! I let the dough stand out without boiling water, under a bag. He has enough of his moisture, as much as the little bag becomes wet from the inside.

I'm still waiting for Zest when she comes and says: "Well done, take a pie from the shelf!"

The zest has come. I admired the creations of your hands. Gives the go-ahead for three pies from the coveted shelf at once, Clever woman honestly earned

And minor flaws will almost always be present. We bake at home - this time; on flour, which in terms of its quality and strength of gluten is far from ideal - these are two, we do not add any different chemical enhancers-enhancers - these are three. So, be prepared for the fact that small cracks can be not only due to mistakes at some stage, and not because there was not enough water for the bread, but simply because the gluten strength was not enough.

And the greatest thing is experience)) Every time everything will turn out better and better. And as for a beginner to bake with sourdough - just gorgeous bread you come out. Promising prospects are felt

[Zest,]

Zest, thanks for the pies.

And I have questions. I haven't been home for two days. The leavens survived this calmly. Stored at a temperature of 12 *. Two behave calmly, bubbling slowly, medium bubbles. And one is permeated with the smallest bubbles, not very thick, and water begins to peel off from above. Does this mean that it is aging, acidifying? She needs to be saved and rejuvenated? It is unlikely that I will do this, I am interested in the theoretical part of the process. And all three have a smell with a hint of acetone, as soon as you take them out of the refrigerator and stick your nose in there. And if you interfere, the smell is better. What does it mean? Consequences of storage defects? She really did have pets.

but really what does it mean? I have a leaven made from white flour (I confess, not French), too, all over the surface, finely-finely bubbly. but no complaints about the smell, no acetone, no vinegar, no alcohol. What is not, that is not. Here, from black rye flour (I first started it on wheat flour and gradually replaced it with rye flour), all in good, high-quality bubbles, solid ones, it's nice to look.

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock

if she didn't feed for only two days, and even at 12 *, then this is not the time for the leaven to go to the next world ... but by all indications - one of the leaven was starved, weakened and began to bend.

So far, I see two reasons - either the necessary balance of microorganisms was not achieved during cultivation, or the starter culture did not stand long enough at room temperature before being sent for storage, and the fermentation process did not have time to start ...

I'm very sorry to upset you ... but when my leaven developed a foreign smell - something vaguely reminiscent of acetone, I ruthlessly threw it away and did not even try to reanimate it. I am afraid of extraneous chemical odors in what I will eat ... the piece would not go into my mouth.

From the experience of communicating with the leaven, I noticed that she did not like my long stay in storage without feeding. And the lid does not open, and there is no additional air access, and if the leaven was weakened before, then it does not withstand such imprisonment.

During ripening and growth, my leaven is permeated with large inflated bubbles, but when it has already eaten everything and begins to acidify, then these bubbles become very small, and the structure of the leaven is completely destroyed. Once it even came to stratification into water-flour, but there were no foreign smells, and I revived it.

Wait still Vika, maybe he will console you with what I would throw away everything with acetone. Make sure that your scent doesn't let you down, let your husband confirm the verdict.

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock
Wait still Vika, maybe he will console you with what I would throw away everything with acetone. Make sure that your scent doesn't let you down, let your husband confirm the verdict.

But there is nothing to poke your nose in there as soon as you took it out of the refrigerator! And you don't even need to open it! She sleeps and does not control herself.
We take out and leave to warm. We don't even open in less than an hour. And when we open it, then stir it and smell it.
I also do not like when they wake me up, although I do not emit unpleasant smells, but sounds
Most likely it is not acetone at all. But anything is possible. Need to check.

She sleeps and does not control herself.

Now I read this quote to the whole family. It's just that everyone was "lying around" with laughter!
"Tamagotchi" is resting

Most likely it is not acetone at all. But anything is possible. Need to check.

acetone-acetone ... where does it come from in such a time ... The sourdough looked quite alive ... My smell began to emit with an unpleasant note only after 9 months of active life.

Either Freken Bok has complete sterility everywhere, then it smells like acetone.I need to urgently call my husband for help, to recheck olfactory hallucinations, of course, unless he is also a doctor

Before throwing away the leaven, make sure you can distinguish the smell of acetone from the smell of high-quality moonshine !!!

Either Freken Bok has complete sterility everywhere, then it smells like acetone.I need to urgently call my husband for help, to recheck olfactory hallucinations, of course, unless he is also a doctor

I don't think this will help, he is also a medic

And I still grow 2e, sometimes they turn into 3.4, but then they always return to the previous count ... the kids fly away, you know

Before throwing away the leaven - make sure you can tell the smell of acetone from the smell of high-quality moonshine !!!

as decent doctors, they are obliged to distinguish

My current Frenchwoman has decided to cancel the smell of sour milk for herself, she persistently publishes a stable fruit-wine-liqueur amber. I have not come across such moonshine

Acetone ... Moonshine ... No, perhaps it's still moonshine! My husband told me about acetone. They gave me vinegar. And most importantly, I put them in the refrigerator really early. My logic was this: I gave food, in the cold they will eat slower and grow slower, there will be enough food for more. And it turned out that one leaven in my cold simply did not find the strength to even eat? ... I am a killer.
But the two remaining ate, spent the night on the table, 50 grams were taken from one for future bread, everything bubble, grow, taste good, well, and the smell is not so-so. In the morning we ate again. In general, girls, we'll see what actually happens in the evening. It's hot again here. Apparently, my husband will have to feed my girls at lunchtime.

Girls, if someone who reads an uninitiated will decide that he has fallen into a fool. : - \ It's good that we don't have an address, otherwise an ambulance has probably already been called.

Girls, if someone who reads the uninitiated will decide that he has fallen into a fool. : - \ It's good that we don't have an address, otherwise an ambulance has probably already been called.

My leavens are still alive. Yesterday's bread I will go to lay out in the topic BREAD WITH LEAVE IN THE OVEN, there I will ask questions.

Hello everybody!
I am to you for advice and clarification ... I really want to get a "wheat" leaven. After reading the forum, I came to the conclusion that French traditional (thick) is suitable for temperature conditions. It is grown at room temperature. And here in St. Petersburg it is cool and the room temperature at 27-35 * cannot be found ... (so that according to Calvel or liquid modern)
I tried to do it and ... it didn't work out ... it didn't "rise". And a lot of questions arose ... If anyone has dealt or can help: respond !!!
The questions are as follows:
1) On the second day of cultivation, 200 flour and 60 water are added and it is written that the dough is too jelly-like and cannot rise. But it turned out thick and increased by 2-2.5 times! And then everything, no longer went, on other days.
2) How to add it to the dough? (put dough on it)
3) How to store to bake 2 p. in Week? (and, if possible, do not throw it away) There is a place in the hold-ke with + 11 *.
Thanks in advance to everyone!

Angelinka, I had the same thing. And then I took some of the leaven (according to the recipe) And she went. She baked bread and bagels and she died. I think from chlorine water, the first times I did it on boiled water.

ikko4ka, I also put it in the dough today ... along with the MK leaven (it works well for me). Probably you have to start a liquid one somehow, you want the same bread like girls and without sourness!

[Pain au levain nature]

That's funny. Only now I am beginning to understand what is written in the Wikin recipe Pain au levain naturel

Very confusing 38g sourdough, 52g wheat flour, 32g of water, 493g wheat flour, 7 g rye flour, 1 g yeast, 11g salt. And if the scales are not so accurate, the bread will not work? How can this accuracy be maintained? Vika, is it just the original recipe given without changes, or are you really measuring everything so precisely?

Flour with water 4 min at 1st, 20 min of swelling, 5 min of kneading at 2nd speed.

And if there is no kneader, it will be possible, for example, in a bread maker to replace the 1st speed with the speed in the PIZZA mode, and the 2nd with the DUMPLING mode?

Maybe I'm asking nonsense, but in this new occupation - baking sourdough bread - I absolutely dislike the gag. I want sensitive guidance.

Tanyusha. If you bake in the oven, such precision is useless. The oven also forgives gross flaws. And if in HP, then you know that this is also + - well, not two, but half an elephant, anyway, everyone adjusts the recipe to their own flour

Freken Bok, when I baked this bread, I tried to measure it on the scales more or less as according to the recipe + - a few grams will not play a role, and it is better to knead not in a bread maker, but with a mixer with dough attachments, just the structure of the dough will be slightly different, more airy.

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock, I measure it out as it is written without bothering with the error of the scales and everything turns out.
But about kneading - if you knead in HP, then it turns out that the first batch needs to be done only until all the flour is wet. Just see that there is no dry flour - turn it off. Now 5 min. at speed 2, it is kneading "until the gluten develops moderately." I have on the "dough" mode kneading for 20 minutes. This is clearly a lot. In 10 minutes. turn off. If you knead more, then there will be no holes, there will be a fine-pored crumb, and this is no longer Pain au levain naturel.

[tanya1962]

Thank you all for your answers.

And I'm all kneading my bread, trying! It turns out that very good is also not good. Here is the explanation for my fine-pored crumb.

tanya1962how is your baby doing?

Yes, forgive me Lyudmila from the well-known LiveJournal, but somewhere I have preserved her photo samples of kneading the dough until a certain development of gluten. (I will try to find and place here (of course, with a link to Lyudmila ... in the end, she posted all this for you and me)

And just in general, I was in shock ... I was sure that it was IMPOSSIBLE to ditch an adult strong leaven. As it turned out, it is very possible ... my mother-in-law did it. Just do not think that these are the usual stumbling blocks between the daughter-in-law and the mother-in-law. She is, among other things, a nurse (right now, and Freken Bok will take a stone in her side). Therefore, they put all their hands on it. But - MY leaven, which is now healthy and flourishing, THERE - died, despite all the efforts and efforts ... I give up and find no explanation. I left the most detailed instructions ... I even donated the scales.
I'll cry right now at the thought that I died of longing for the mistress

[Zest,]

Zest, Yes. we are doctors like that. Now they got to the leaven with their little hands.

Incidentally, I also did not quite understand why I glued one copy of the fins. There was leaven next to two sisters, sisters wow, but the one who died in small bubbles went, the water peeled off ... Everything is like in life. Not everything depends on us.

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock

My mother-in-law claims that she acted strictly in accordance with the instructions left, according to approximate time guidelines, but ... the flour peeled off from the water and smelled
My sourdough is so capricious and regrets if I leave for at least a week.

[Zest]

Zest, it seems to me that you need to "get sick" with leaven in order to notice the minimal features of their behavior, to receive instructions is not enough. How many questions I pestered you until some experience came. And even now, advice is constantly needed. And the mother-in-law, even if she has done something naughty, does not admit it to her. My mother used to put an iron on the linoleum, burn it, and then she says: I don't know, I didn't do anything, we sit, we will fix the kerosene stove ...

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock

Uh-huh ... I'm sitting now ... dictating ... how easy it is to make universal yeast dough on dough ... and have a kitten, otherwise there is no one else

I found a file saved in Word. But they do not agree to transfer the photo here. Apparently, I don't have enough computer skills. If someone tells me, I will be glad.

Zest, unfortunately, I also do not have enough computer skills to help you, but I really want to see the photo.

[Joy]

there were kind people Joy helped to deal with the file.

Gluten development material is HERE.

I tried to bake Pain au levain naturel the day before yesterday. The process was carried out in four hands, which, of course, affected the result. The dough, delivered at 7 in the morning, before leaving for work, tripled by 14.00, and since I come home from work closer to 6 in the evening, I had to manage the process from a distance The husband told me on the phone what he saw, and I, accordingly, said , What do we have to do.
In comparison with the photos of Lyudmila, the dough was much thicker both after the first and after the second kneading. She divided it, as it was said, into two parts. The result is two small breads, just over 20 cm in diameter. It should be? One was parted in the microwave with a glass of water, the other in a multicooker (the proofing cup stood with a saucer turned upside down, and a glass of hot water was poured on the bottom). The first bread, multicooker, turned out to be very thick-baked, with a fine-pored crumb. At the second, the crust came out thin, there were more holes. Both smelled great, it was very tasty, but this is not Vikin at all Pain au levain naturel

I, of course, will not leave the attempts to bake it so easily. I'll try to figure out where the jamb is.

And I understood the reason for my failure with Pain au levain naturel "Amina" flour. Today I tried to bake Italian bread (Ann Thibeault), which was already obtained without problems. And bakery "Amina" took flour, Vika said that she actively uses it. As a result, no ball of dough came out even close, the dough was almost like pancakes with a thickness. And now I think that if this "Amina" is put into Pain au levain naturel, it will turn out to be it. These are my misli

Tanya, I also bake from Amina, I like flour very much. It used to bake from Belotserkovskaya flour, not bad, but still ...

Len, but I don't like it at all. Makfa has not found an alternative yet. The only thing, Vika, I believe as I do. That's why I bought Amina again. I will try to bake Pain au levain naturel from it. And I poured the Italian into a small bag and carefully put it in the trash bin. Well, and also because today there is no strength left to fight with anything.

[Freken Bock]

... poured (just poured) into a small bag and carefully put it in the trash bin.

Freken Bock, I just did the same with my bread dough. I had to bake 2 loaves. The first is more or less, right here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13276.new;topicseen#new, and the second rose in 1 hour and fell, so that there was nothing left for the stove.

Some day today is not a bread, probably ...
And I bake mainly on "Bogumil".

[kava]

kava, I also liked Bogumila. Last year I brought a little from Odessa, I was happy. And now I bake on Dnipromlin, tolerably. And budgetary.

I love to travel ... Yes, it's good to be a citizen of the world or at least have your own travel agency