French starters

Zest, and minuscule is how much? And how do you manage to reduce it to minuscule? : - \ And then I already have a farm, I don't have time to use it, but it's a pity to throw it away.
Shl. Yes, for the purity of the breed, I have developed a new French sourdough. The heating has already been turned off, it has become cooler, but it is still growing and multiplying very actively.

if you feed everything that multiplies, then soon there will be no room for you in the apartment.
Of course, using all the starter culture is unrealistic. Therefore, I have long resigned myself to the need to throw away the surplus.
Today I have developed the following scheme:
- 5 g of sourdough I soften with 50 g of flour + 50 g of water,
- after ripening, I feed in a ratio of 1 to 1 or 1 to 2,
if necessary, dial in the amount - I feed in this proportion again,
- everything that has not been used - I throw it away (or I leave it in the refrigerator for up to 3 days, and what if I find it somewhere else and it’s easier for me to throw it out later),
- again I soften 5 g of sourdough,
- and so on in a circle))

THANK YOU! Missing the rejuvenating moment!

The zest can be repeated once again for those "who are on an armored train": when the leaven has already risen 2-2.5 times, then: a) it needs to be halved and fed, b) take a part for the dough for bread, and the rest should be halved and feed, c) leave it for 2 days (if I'm not going to bake it now), and then halve it and feed it?

a) if the leaven has risen 2 times, then it can be used (both for dough and directly into the dough);
b) if the remainder of the unused sourdough is large, then there is no point in feeding it all, it is better to throw it away, and feed the remainder;
c) before leaving for two days for storage at a suitable temperature, you need to feed in a large proportion, say, 1 to 20, leave it warm for an hour or two for the process to start, and then send it for storage.

3. 5th day it is said that you need to keep in the refrigerator for 24 hours. But what about lactic bacteria that can die? I don’t know how many degrees I have in the refrigerator, suddenly it’s less than necessary, what should I do then?
4. Although I haven't found the instruction yet, which one is better to grow liquid or thick, which one is better in storage later?

My opinion is this: it's easier to grow liquid. It is not necessary to put it in the refrigerator and stir it easier. I did not like to knead thick. But liquid can then be converted into thick, and if necessary, then back to liquid.

Girls, I here, by the force of the impending summer, tried to transfer my liquid grape into a thick one. And again deja vu (I doubt if I wrote it correctly?) The fermented thick leaven does not have a very pleasant smell. It was the same with French. Or is it just me?

[himichka]

himichka
I really don't know ... I kept the leaven in a liquid state all last summer, of course I had to soften it more often. But the smell was all right.

Viki, Zest, THANKS!

Tell me, do you need to take pure malt, that is, without impurities? I have dry bread kvass in the composition crumb crumb and fermented rye malt. Is this possible, or is it better without impurities?

Tell me, do you need to take pure malt, that is, without impurities? I have dry bread kvass in the composition crumb crumb and fermented rye malt. Is this possible, or is it better without impurities?

Better, of course, without impurities. But if there is absolutely no way to buy malt, then I would risk it. Look carefully at the composition so that there is no chemistry, everyone's E-shek. In the end, the attempt is not torture))

Another question about wheat flour, do you use the highest grade? I also have grades 1 and 2.Which is better? As I understand it, there are more nutritious feasts left in the second and first grade than in the highest, the shell of the grain ... therefore, it should be better for sourdough. Or how?

[Kseny]

Kseny

Yeah, in grades 1 and 2 for sourdough there is much more "tasty", it ripens on this flour much faster than on the highest grade. Therefore, I just alternate the highest grade, 1 and 2. If you need to quickly, I feed the 2nd grade, if you need to "slow down", then the highest.

traditionally the highest grade is used for baking, so-called small-piece products, rolls, etc. For bread, grade 1 and 2 are better.
I didn't even try to add the top grade to the leaven, but she loves bran and sprouted grain very much

Yeah, in grades 1 and 2 for sourdough there is much more "tasty", it ripens on this flour much faster than on the highest grade. Therefore, I just alternate the highest grade, 1 and 2. If you need to quickly, I feed the 2nd grade, if you need to "slow down", then the highest.

so, pagadite !!! I feed it a / s, and when I fed whole grain, you called my whole grain sourdough. but c / s flour = 2nd grade, only there are wheat germs there ...

[Yuliki]

so, pagadite !!! I feed it a / s, and when I fed whole grain, you called my whole grain sourdough. but c / s flour = 2nd grade, only there are wheat germs there ...

Once a week, the sourdough should be "exercise", to maintain good physical shape, add a little rye flour and honey to it. So sometimes I replace rye flour with flour of 1 or 2 grades, but not a teaspoon, but half of the dressing. Occasionally, when it becomes completely sad, I can feed it with 1 variety.

The main feeding is premium flour, which was bought in a bag at the mill. It is not suitable for baking, it floats, but its leaven willingly eats it.

And absolutely right Yuliki, I am also guided by where my leaven will go - in pure white bread, bun or mixed bread.

I play a little with the grade of wheat flour when feeding, but whole grain - only in dough.

yeah ... got it ... thanks :)
"slow down, I'm recording!"

I also focus on where my leaven will go - in pure white bread, baked goods or mixed bread.

If I understood correctly, are you baking pastry with sourdough too? And then I still toil: can I bake a Frenchwoman or everything is strictly only according to the recipe (that is, without her). And if possible, then how: through the dough or can you add it when mixing?

[kava]

kava
Of course, you can add sourdough to baked goods. Look in the Panettone theme one of my butter colombic is sitting

In recipes with dough, calmly replace the entire amount of dough with sourdough (it should be fresh, rather even a little ripe), and when kneading the dough, add half of the yeast norm that was relied on in the recipe for the dough. You don't need to add yeast, but then the proofing will take longer, and the likelihood of sourness in the dough increases. As for my taste, it is better to add a little yeast.
So, replacing the sourdough with sourdough allows you to attach its surplus and saves time for ripening the yeast sourdough (the sourdough is still growing and multiplying here anyway).

In addition, if I do not replace the sourdough with sourdough, then I just add the sourdough to the yeast dough to improve the structure and taste. I simply subtract 100 g of flour and 100 g of water from the recipe and replace them with sourdough, otherwise sticking to the recipe.

Thank you, Zest, reassured! And then I thought that I had a dummy to add sourdough to all HB products. And I don’t completely give up yeast. I just reduced their amount to about 5 g

[Kseny]

Kseny

Yeah, in grades 1 and 2 for sourdough there is much more "tasty", it ripens on this flour much faster than on the highest grade.

Yes ... for some reason I thought it was the other way around. Once it contains more nutrients, it will last longer.

Yes ... for some reason I thought it was the other way around. Once it contains more nutrients, it will last longer.

More nutrients and less gluten.Gluten "ate" and shouts "Feed me!" I would have mixed low-grade flour with bakery flour to feed it, but your "child" is up to you.

Great! You can really mix flour! Now I will know that it will ripen faster on grades 1 and 2 than on the highest.
Viki, yesterday I baked rye according to your recipe, or rather started on it. After all, how many times they write that you cannot deviate from the recipe ... so no, until you step on the rake yourself, you will not understand. Instead of kneading the dough with my hands, I decided in HP, it was difficult for her, added liquid, although there was no recipe. Naturally, I could not get it out of the HP, so I left it. Rose in 1.5 hours Although usually about 3. It turned out delicious, soft, with beautiful holes, but wet, it was her own fault! Now from the recipe, no, no!
Tomorrow I'll start raising a Frenchwoman, I've read all the tips, it seems that everything is clear for now. Thank you!

[Kseny]

Kseny, good luck to you! In three days I will check what you have grown.

Girls, tell me what to do. I fed my "obzherka" 100-100-100, and after 2 hours the half-liter jar was already on top, more than doubled. So it must be, or something is growing wrong with me.

I fed my "obzherka" 100-100-100

Admit it, what did you feed?

Rye flour (husband brought as much as 10 kg)

Rye flour (husband brought as much as 10 kg)

Then it's okay. Yeast bacteria raise the leaven, and you have a lot of them from the addition of rye flour.
Sourdough with rye flour is perfectly stored in the refrigerator at any temperature with a plus sign.
As far as I remember, if you feed 20 grams. such a starter culture 80 gr. water and 80 gr. rye flour and let it double, then at 3 - 4 * in the refrigerator, it fully matures in 3 days, and becomes hungry in 7-8 days. You need to let her warm up for about an hour, and then feed. Feed three times at room temperature before baking.

And you can mix it now and put it in the refrigerator without feeding it, I have +10 on the top shelf, just a good temperature.

[suslja5004]

suslja5004, I can write about leavens for a long time .... Let me send you to advanced training courses in America to Misha. He is a good teacher, I can entrust you to him So here you go:
🔗
You are interested in part two - How to store and feed the starter culture.

Thank you! A very useful link.

But I have something that nothing grows. I do everything according to the Viki recipe. Already 3 days have passed, fed 4 times already, and the leaven does not increase, does not bubble. The smell is pleasant.
Today, even along with wheat flour, I added a teaspoon of bran.
But NOTHING HAPPENS !!!!
Thinking to continue or start over?

But I have something that nothing grows. I do everything according to the Viki recipe. Already 3 days have passed, fed 4 times already, and the leaven does not increase, does not bubble. The smell is pleasant.
Today, even along with wheat flour, I added a teaspoon of bran.
But NOTHING HAPPENS !!!!
Thinking to continue or start over?

No need to re-do it. If the smell is pleasant, then everything happens, or rather, something happens that you cannot see.
Your starter culture is made up of many types of bacteria. The most numerous of them are lactic acid and yeast. If the smell is pleasant, then you now have more MK than yeast. Give her 1 tsp when feeding tomorrow. rye flour, do not give the next meal of rye flour. It should work. Don't give honey yet, okay? Let's wait and watch her for 2 more days, and then we’ll decide, don’t you agree?

Let's wait and watch her for 2 more days, and then we’ll decide, don’t you agree?

Agree! I fed again. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

And today I took the leaven out of the refrigerator, I have a little stored there, I want to see how it behaves in the cold (+10), the rest lives in the closet (+22). So, I pulled it out and forgot to warm it up (I ran in the morning, my birthday is today) and immediately threw in 2 grade flour and water, 80-80-80, And look, not even 2.30 has passed, as she got up !! The husband laughs, says, look, soon your monsters will start talking.

Hurrah!!! My leaven is stirring! It has approximately doubled in volume and bubbles have appeared. The smell is pleasant, similar to the smell of grape seeds.

If I won't bake it in the near future, should it continue to be fed the same way, every 12 hours?
Following the example of suslja5004, I'll try to put half of it in the refrigerator, but I don't know the temperature, it doesn't seem very cold there.

I put a thermometer on the top shelf, the street one, which he lay there all night and showed +10. This is where the leaven stands, and it also manages to boil and bubble

Connoisseurs, tell me, what smell should the finished sourdough have? I grow the leaven for the third day, the smell is like grass, not very pleasant. The finished MK sourdough smell - pickled apples, should a French woman have the same? If so, when will it start to appear? My sourdough is only bubbling so far and does not grow. In half an hour I will go to feed her, I doubt that by the morning her something will change dramatically. Well, I will continue until the victory, the main thing is to understand what to strive for.

Today my starter looks like photo suslja5004. Full half-liter jar (initially it was 1/4 full).
Can I put it in the refrigerator now? Or continue feeding? How often should this be done? And wouldn't it be harmful for her to constantly stay warm (at home about 25 *)

[Kseny]

Kseny, at different stages of life, the French sourdough will smell different. Freshly fed, it will smell like milk, after a few hours (at room temperature) a lactic acid aroma will appear, and then just sour (vinegar notes are caught), when it is over-grown - alcoholic.
LaraN, I have a sourdough on wheat flour, so I don't put it in the refrigerator, there is less than 10 *, and I want to preserve the vital activity of MC bacteria. I store it at 25 * and I have to feed it 3 times a day. Only doubled - I feed, I do not give MK bacteria to produce a lot of acetic acid. I bake every other day, while it's convenient for me. I rarely throw away part of the leaven, but it happens

Viki, everything was as you wrote. The leaven is now growing, all in bubbles. She used to bake pancakes tonight. Unmatched taste! And what air!
I kneaded the bread according to Darnitsky's recipe, although I took part of the morning sourdough, put the dough as according to the recipe, it turned out to be quite thick, now I don't know how long it will take to raise the bread and whether it can raise it, I did not add yeast. Apparently I will bake at night.

.... I do not know how long it will take to raise the bread and whether it will be able to raise it, I did not add yeast. Apparently I will bake at night.

Why not raise? Will definitely raise! Just write, please, how long it will take to rise and how you will taste, okay? I usually add a gram of yeast, I think everything is faster.

I warmed up the bread maker a little, apparently from panic, 1.5 hours have passed, the bread has grown a little, it's already good, I'm waiting further

Now Khlebushek looked in, but not 2 times, but maybe 1.5 times, but a little crust cracked. What to do? Maybe bake before it's too late? I shouldn't have warmed up the stove, accelerated the rise. Viki what to do? Will it suddenly fall?

[Kseny]

Kseny , urgently bake! One and a half times is what you need. With the beginning of baking, it should still rise.

Everything, I pressed it, now it only remains to wait.
Let's see what happens.
I really like this sourdough even before baking bread, in appearance and smell, and even in taste.
I will feed and keep at room temperature, my husband bought specially spring water.
I noticed a difference with the one in the refrigerator. Now I’m here no, no, I’d better feed more often, and bake pancakes.

Viki, I feed the starter culture 2 times a day, morning and evening. I tried to put some in the refrigerator. The next day I took out, warmed up for 1 hour, fed. She got up, but not very briskly, like the one remaining in the jar. Now she smells of dry wine. This is normal?

Yes, I have already baked rye bread with sourdough twice, but with the addition of a small amount of yeast. And twice wheat in HP.
The rye was excellent! Smell, taste !!!! And do not crumble.The report is in the topic "Baking sourdough bread in the oven" https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ic=9229.new;topicseen#new

[LaraN]

LaraN, I saw your bread
Starter culture is clearly better without a refrigerator. The one after the refrigerator needs to be fed a couple of times in a warm place before baking. And at first you will often bake (as I understand it), so for now it is better to have two feedings a day. And the smell of dry wine is good. I am waiting for your new bread.
Ksenyyour silence scares me

Here I am. The bread turned out to be delicious, with a subtle sourness, a crust, like after a volcanic eruption, I think the bread did not like the extreme rise.
Baked prescription:
Dough:
40 gr. starter cultures moisture 100%
160 g peeled rye flour
110 g water
Dough:
280 gr. dough (put all)
200 gr. wheat flour
130 gr. rye flour
1 gr. instant yeast (not added)
7 gr. salt

Next time I'll put the dough for fewer hours, not in the morning, but since lunch
7 gr. salt is 1/2 tbsp. l., I think a lot, 1 teaspoon is enough
and I will not do an extreme climb.
I think these are the main mistakes, and of course the toad crushed, put all the dough. I do not know 30 grams in this case is critical or not?
This is a side view:

This is the crust:

In the context:

[Kseny]

Ksenyand how does it taste? Does he look like Darnitsky?
Why did you "squeeze" 1 ​​gram of native bread. instant yeast? Would rise faster (about an hour) and would not have time to acidify.

I do not know what Darnitsky should taste like. My husband and I tried and caught some familiar taste, he reminded of some of the previously dug shop. We liked him anyway.
Now there is no yeast in the house, after the appearance of the leaven, they are not found, or rather we have exhausted them
Today I don’t bake bread, because I still need to eat this. Half have already been eaten.
The leaven is just a miracle.
It is she who lives in such a jar, periodically "breathes" air:

This is the top view:

At lunchtime I fed her with a mixture of rye flour, oatmeal, wheat 1, 2 and the highest grade, in the evening there was a full jar, it was all snotty and perforated and the smell was pleasant.
Made from it pancakes with raisins. Such delicious food! This is a discovery for me.

What a beauty you have!
And the snotty one is from oatmeal. Well, her feeding! How many goodies, of course, will be healthy (and quick).