French starters

Topic about French leavens.

[Day two (morning)]

Such leaven lives with me. And the bread on it turns out to be very tasty. Here's what:


And this is my sourdough farm:


We mix and get a dense lump:




We leave it warm for 24 hours (ideally 30-40 * C).

Day two (morning):

Our leaven looks something like this:



We take 110 g from her. add 110 gr. water 40 * C and shake with a fork until foam is obtained:



Leave it warm for 12 hours.

Day two (evening): again 110 gr. starter cultures + 110 gr. water 40 * C + 110 gr. wheat flour, mix, leave for 12 hours.

Day three (morning): our starter is ready for the next feeding:



We do everything the same way and now we are watching her carefully.
She will be ready in
6 hours at + 33 * С
12 hours at + 30 * С
16 hours at + 27 * С

Mine for some reason after 6 hours and at + 27 * C was ready:



Why so fast, I guess. Most likely the reason is wallpaper flour. A full cycle was prepared for the same filling on the peeling one.
Well, that's actually all I do to get a liquid French sourdough. I really want everyone who wants to grow her to turn out beautiful, active and live for a long, long time bringing joy!

PS is good - it would be better to feed it 2-3 times more "empty" before putting bread dough on it. Feed every 5-7 hours to make sure that the leaven perfectly raises the dough 4 times in 5-7 hours at room T at 27-28C. At this stage, it is already possible to drastically reduce the amount of sourdough with which you work, well, to 10-20 grams ...
You can also soften the leaven. You need to take 5 grams. sourdough and add 125 gr. water and 125 gr. flour (1:50).
If peroxide, - HERE well described how to "revive" it.

The beauty of bread It is useless to even ask about taste, and everything is clear.

Such leaven lives with me. And the bread on it turns out to be very tasty. Here's what:

Very cute, and I want one.
Where is this bread baked? As I understood from the shape of the bread - in the oven for sure. Does it mix? According to the link recipe, everything is done or the bread maker is used in some process. Share, pliz, in more detail.

[Admin]

This bread is called Pain au levain naturel. It contains neither oil nor sugar and only 1g. live yeast.

Author's words: For two oval or round hearth breads 420-450g each with several diagonal, two central overlapping or one straight cut along the length =
Dough: 38g sourdough (25g flour), 52g wheat flour, 4g rye flour, 32g water. 6-8 hours at 25C, 3.5 times in volume.
Dough: 493g wheat flour, 7g rye flour, 1g yeast, 11g salt, 325g water, whole dough. Flour with water 4 min at 1st, 20 min of swelling, 5 min of kneading at 2nd speed.
Fermentation 1h 20min; select a piece of sourdough dough for dough for tomorrow's bread. Preliminary proofing 30 min. Final proofing 2.5 hours upside down in baskets or seam bottom in burlap.
Cut. Steam oven or lid oven, 40min at 465F.

I baked it in almost the same way, except for the kneading, which the bread maker did for me, after which I turned it off and the dough fermented for 80 minutes right in the bucket. Then she took out the dough, divided it into 2 parts and then everything was like in the main recipe. I baked in the oven on a hearth on baking paper with steam, you see a saucepan with water below:



But he blushed:



The taste is indescribable with a slight sourness (the leaven knows its business), and how fragrant and what a crust, I smeared it with hot oil.
AdminI just have good teachers

This bread is called Pain au levain naturel. It contains neither oil nor sugar and only 1g. live yeast.
Its recipe is here:
🔗

Thank you so much!

I baked it in almost the same way, except for the kneading, which the bread maker did for me, after which I turned it off and the dough fermented for 80 minutes right in the bucket.

And the batch was carried out in the HP in the "Basic?
And another question, if possible, I see your leaven is in containers for storing food in refrigerators, as I understand from the image. We sell similar ones in the city, at least they look like them. If so, then the question is, are they kept in these containers completely closed, or is there a small hole open (which opens by turning the lid, well, I think you understand what I'm talking about if these are the same containers)?

[Wanderer]

Wanderer, these are the same containers for storing food, and the lid is turned so that the hole is open. And the leaven breathes and does not weather, the hole is tiny.
And I did the batch on "basic", but for HP with temperature equalization, the "pizza" mode is needed. You can mix water with flour and leave for 20 minutes to swell, and then add everything else, but I mixed everything at once and the bun formed only at the end of the batch.

[Wanderer]

Wanderer, these are the same containers for storing food, and the lid is turned so that the hole is open. And the leaven breathes and does not weather, the hole is tiny.
And I did the batch on "basic", but for HP with temperature equalization, the "pizza" mode is needed. You can mix water with flour and leave for 20 minutes to swell, and then add everything else, but I mixed everything at once and the bun formed only at the end of the batch.

Thank you so much!!!
I gave you a plus sign, tomorrow I will put another one: for bread and for keeping the leaven, it was very important for me to know.
Now I will try to bake the same myself! But first you need to grow the leaven. If there are any nuances in the manufacture of sourdough, share, too, please. And then I already had one experience of growing sourdough, well, I didn’t want to grow it. It seems that I did everything as it was written, nothing worked, and I did it at the end of spring, when the temperature was normal ...
And he grew up according to the recipe "Leavened bread", which is located at this link: 🔗, it's there, near the end of the page.
Thank you!

I grew up a liquid version. She spent the first day in a yogurt maker with an unopened lid, and on the bottom I laid paper napkins (about six). The rest of the days she spent in an open yogurt maker, that is, without a lid. When it was ready, it turned out to be "snotty", at the bottom of the discussion page I found how to bring it back to normal and did as it was written: 0.5 cups of starter culture + 1.5 cups of water shaken well, took 0.5 cups of this foamy liquid, added 0.25 cups flour and stir. The next day 5 gr. I fed this liquid starter culture 1:50 (5 grams of starter + 125 grams of water + 125 grams of flour) and it came into working condition. It took 5 days
I wish you success!

From the outside it always seems that now I will make leaven in this likeness and everything will work out and from now on I will bake the best bread.

No, no! It turns out that you need to find your "leaven", understand what it is, grow, go out, then cherish, etc.
It turns out that you need to deal with these leavens, have patience with them, but they can be capricious and do not want to behave as you need, they die, and you need to start all over again.
And to get such a beautiful, well-kept sourdough farm, a lot of time and patience and soul must be invested in them.

So Viki? First you need a great desire to engage in leavening, this is a living organism.

And what kind of sourdough to take for growing will be shown by our own experience.
It is not enough to say "I, Wan want the same thing."

I decided to give my "French" sourdough a serious test and baked real Russian bread on it. And she did it!
You can see the result here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=6039.new#new

[Viki]

I wanted to ask those who grew French starter cultures according to Lyudmila's recipe.

Viki

She died twice. On the fourth day.No lifting, bubbling, gluten in its original form (stretched out with the thinnest films). This means that no one lives there anymore ... I don’t understand the reason yet, but I guess where my mistakes are. Out of grief, even the ciabatta undertook to do today, since she made friends with the dough for a long time and for a long time.

Tell me about the initial mixing of rye flour with water ... I only have peeled flour (there is no wallpaper in the store), so the water-flour ratio may be slightly different, since they are slightly, but differ in characteristics. I got a thick piece of dumplings dough, although Lyudmila in the photo has the initial rye mixture bubbling (it seems that it is not thicker than sour cream). I drank more water, which knocked down the flour-water proportions. What about you?

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, I started the one that is "liquid" and on wallpaper flour. The first batch was also very steep, the next day it became a little thinner, and after feeding with wheat flour it was even better and more beautiful. The same Lyudmila, and she is a pro by sourdough, claims that everything should work out with peeled flour. Try again exactly according to the technology and try to maintain the correct temperature regime, this is even more important than the type of flour. And when all the processes are over, do not throw away what you get. I am very sorry for your leavens, they seemed to be correct, they needed to be brought into working order. In the answer number 8 of this topic, I wrote what needs to be done, try it. So it was with me and Lyudmila. Let's just one more time and write how the process is going, okay?

You made a liquid version that needs a higher temperature setting (hence the yogurt maker). I tried to make a traditional one, which needs to be kept at room temperature (this is 21-22 degrees). I have exactly that many at home. But something is still not right.
I, of course, will repeat the experience ("there are no such peaks that the Bolsheviks would not have taken" ... - I do not remember from which film) and then I will report ... Today I will stage it again.

No, I'm sure they were dead, no movement, no gas formation in the dough and no rising. I just don’t understand why.

Scarecrow! I also did not succeed in the traditional sourdough the first time. I repeated everything after 2 weeks and everything went like clockwork. Confused just at the last stage (in the refrigerator), the leaven did not change in any way. But after a few days I took it out of the refrigerator (I store it at +12) and after a couple of hours it flooded ... I want to say that I also did that part of the leaven that needed to be thrown away. And part of it finished to the end according to the recipe, and part reached the refrigerator. Both are very active. Today I baked sourdough bread. The proofing was 4 hours. The dough increased by 3-4 times. So good luck.

the crunch of a French bun was haunted, I had to gather my courage and start raising a capricious Frenchwoman. I really didn’t endure anything from her, what I did, to adjust to her mood and breathe life into her Unless she sang lullabies for the night. Finally, she decided to please me in return. I did not achieve the rise of the sourdough itself in the described 3 times, but it produces a look quite lively and strengthened. I ventured to try it in a serious matter. To my delight and surprise, she coped with the task perfectly. We will be friends with her further

Actually, I have already tried it in the process of "coming into force". But the tasks she performed were not so radical. I made pancakes on it - they turned out gorgeous, they looked like lace-lace napkins, just right to look at and admire, the taste was with a slight sourness, real like that.

She also replaced the liquid in white breads in a bread machine with it. The crumb turned out to be very good, almost one-on-one, like on dough. Whoever made Sitny on dough knows the structure of this crumb. So, she baked one bread, strictly observing the recipe, with cold dough, etc., and the second had to be done quickly, replaced the dough with sourdough, baked in a bread maker, so the breads turned out to be very similar. If you don't find fault with the shades of taste, they are almost the same.

A good starter culture, I will take care of it and further test it in practice.Captivating is the ability to bake bread using only 1 g of yeast and absolutely no butter and sugar. These are the breads in the photo.

That's what it means to sit quietly in a corner and be silent for a bit - you can't see or hear - but then she gave out to the mountain what she needed, well done for her diligence

[Admin]

Admin Yes, you gave me a lot of work to do, this is the whole world - baking bread in the oven, and it is much more interesting and tastier than in a bread maker. No, she, of course, is smart and helps with kneading, saves in those cases when there is no time to control the process. But I'm already looking for a good kneader ... tins for proofing and baking ... cutting blades ... The tongue does not turn to offend the oven, but bread from the oven and from the bread machine are two big differences.

Yesterday I baked bread in the Sandwich oven, then I sat down and counted how long it took for this business and what cycles were involved.
Kneading in a bread maker took about 40 minutes
1 proofing in the oven at 30 * C for about 1 hour
2 soaking in the same place for about an hour, but already faster
baking for about 45-50 minutes
In total, it took the same 3.50 hours in time. And I would not say that it was burdensome, there was no need to stand over the bread.

But the taste and crumb of bread ............ words cannot convey.
In the bucket of a bread machine, the dough is very cramped, there is nowhere to part, there is no freedom.
And I want to say, therefore, you need to raise the dough with an extra amount of yeast, which is not the case when proofing in a regular bowl in the oven.

Look at the recipe, it can be useful for starter cultures. There are few products, and the effect is above the roof.

of course, baking in the oven does not require you to "constantly turn the pedals", you just need to direct the process in the right direction from time to time and change the cycles. To do this, you need to be in place at the right time. Therefore, I bake bread in the oven only on those days when I can be at home forever. Maybe, with experience, I will learn to better calculate the time in order to time the maturation of the dough and dough for the return ... But I am clearly not going to stop
I'll try "sandwich" too, thanks. Now I want to try so many things that sometimes I get lost, what to do in the first place?))
If during the time of using the bread maker I very rarely repeated bread, then now there will certainly be enough recipes for a lifetime

and yet this Frenchwoman rises not only twice, but also three or more times. She decided, you see, tonight that she was already old enough, and ran away for a walk, I had to collect Ehhh all over the table, there was no time to put it in bread today in order to get a quick use of it.

I read and saw enough - got jealous and today put it strictly according to the recipe - 100 gr. peeled rye and 120 ml. water. It turned out a bit thick, well, let it be worth it.
What is the risk ?!

[MariV]

MariV but you do not risk anything. Everything should work out, the starter is excellent. I had to suffer with it only at the very end of the cycle, in the process of "putting it into working condition". Although, maybe, I myself was reinsured and added work to myself: after shaking water in a lush foam in a jar with the remains of the sourdough, I held the contents for a day, and then, just in case, I divided it. Part of the mixture was fed in the evening, part - only in the morning, with different flours and in different proportions. And I also left a little in a glass, for every fireman. So I awakened further three parts, so as not to start all over from the very beginning, if one of them bends. I must say that everyone survived, but of them I chose and began to raise the strongest.

It turned out a bit thick, well, let it be worth it.

And the first mixture turned out to be the thickest. Tomorrow it will become thinner. I have grown somewhere 2.5 times.

Here, I just pulled this handsome man out of the oven in 900 g. So there is not even a gram of yeast or sugar in it. It will cool down a little, I will look at the crumb. I recently baked bread in the oven and in a bread maker in parallel, so my family first of all eat this one, "orphan", with the elementary composition of flour-salt-water-sourdough.

[Zest]

, Zest, what a beauty. Struck down on the spot

Zest, what a loaf !!!
Just a feast for the eyes, the eye pleases and breathes with something homely, cozy

Oh, girls, the soul itself rejoices)) It's not the first time that they turned out like this.But I really really wanted to learn ...
Here comes the crumb


Here is the original recipe 🔗

Hmm ... to my taste this "simple" somehow even more French came, and much less fuss. You can even say that there is no fuss, and the leaven would be ready.

[Zest]

Zest
We are thinking in parallel !!!!
I also bake a lot of interesting breads from this LJ.
True, the camera was dropped on vacation, now without a photo

God! What a miracle! That's it, I will master the leavens! I went to read ...

There are no words - beauty! I’ll go and see what’s there with my ...
And what, I'm alive!

Zest, you always get such beauty that you can choke on saliva. Of course, I'm far from perfect, but I would like to get even a little closer to it. So far, I have become infected with sourdough bread in the kefir-rye version (I know that you also bake with this sourdough), but for some reason, either all the bread spreads in shape and cracks (100% rye), or it breaks in all sides ( wheat-rye). In both cases, the crust is also very dry. Tell me how to achieve a beautiful surface?

I haven’t ventured into a Frenchwoman yet, and here I have one more question: can I start using ordinary rye flour (I even get this with great difficulty, and there is no question of choosing wallpaper, peeled, etc.)?

How to achieve a beautiful surface? In the oven it is not difficult, you just need to grease the top crust with water, and also make cuts, and bake the first 10-15 minutes with steam ...
But with flour it is still easier: you can "make" a Frenchwoman by starting with any rye, BUT if there is wallpaper, then take it, but no - well, no ...
On French sourdough, I get bread like this:

In the context:

Following:


With bran and flax seeds (ground):


Darnitsky baked using French sourdough:

And some French bread:

The starter culture is doing great, it turns out delicious. A little more time and effort, but we can afford it for now. It's worth it! Convinced?

Yes, convincing! My second day is worth the leaven.

Viki, please tell me, do you bake bread on a hearth, in a form, under a lid, without it? I put a saucepan with water in the oven for steam humidification, while proving the bread I repeatedly sprinkle it with water and during the baking process too, but ...

In general, what happens in these Temks:

answer # 65

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=3470.60


answer # 45
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...f&Itemid=26&topic=6483.45

Viki, please tell me, do you bake bread on a hearth, in a form, under a lid, without it?

The fact is that I bake on the hearth, in the form, and with a lid, and without a lid. Different breads and different baking methods.
For hearth bread: I don’t have a proofing basket and I’m soaking it in colo-slag with a clean cloth sprinkled with flour:

Seam up, like this:

I don't have a proofing cabinet like a bakery, so I put my bread in the microwave (off) for proofing and put a cup of boiling water there. It turns out warm and humid, the dough works well.
Before baking, I make cuts with a blade and lubricate with water. Steam humidification only at the beginning of baking for 10-15 minutes.
For the mold: to pop out of the mold I use a non-stick lubricant: mix 1: 1: 1 by volume lard (or confectionery fat) with vegetable oil and flour. Beat well, you can store in the refrigerator, or without. I brush the mold with a brush before putting the proofing dough into it.
Before baking, I also grease the top with water.
Here is the wheat-rye sitting in the mold:

And now I jumped out, what a crust .....:

I wish you success! And if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask. Maybe I didn't answer everything ...

How to achieve a beautiful surface? It's not difficult in the oven

kanechna)) If you bake at least a dozen loaves of bread and bring the process to automatism. At the first baking, I grabbed the lid, then the spray gun, then the mittens, so that with my bare hands I would not grab the hot vogue

So far, I have become infected with sourdough bread in the kefir-rye version (I know that you also bake with this sourdough), but for some reason, either all the bread spreads in shape and cracks (100% rye), or it breaks in all sides ( wheat-rye). In both cases, the crust is also very dry. Tell me how to achieve a beautiful surface?

My experience of baking bread in the oven is still not very rich, but I will try to help as much as I can.
Not so long ago I was in a state of shock from the sight of bread from the oven with kefir sourdough. Several times in a row, the result was very far from ideal - it spread, then how the bread was torn from the inside. But during this time, the process of baking with steam brought it almost to automatic movements. And then only the insight came that the matter was in the sourdough. She herself was guilty, fed her incorrectly, and in the test she began to behave in the most unpredictable way. It became very acidic, killed the yeast in a moment, and itself raised the dough for an incredibly long time, souring even more during this time. After she rejuvenated the kefir sourdough, it began to remind me of a young gulyona, and strives to run away somewhere as soon as it gets from the refrigerator to room temperature. So, first of all, look carefully at your leaven, is everything okay with it? Has it over-acidified? Is it strong enough?

Well, and then check everything else:
- flour for baking on the hearth must be with a high gluten content, otherwise the dough will creep;
- the bun should not be as soft as it is allowed for baking in the form;
- the form for proofing the dough must be suitable in size and volume;
- before being sent for proofing, the bread must be properly formed, "stretched" on the surface;
- I distribute the dough in a form on baking paper, in which I transfer it to a red-hot vogue;
- before making cuts, gently grease the surface with flour (I do it with a brush), then the dough is easier to cut;
- the oven and under should be warmed up for half an hour to 230-240 * C, only in this case the crust will set quickly, and the dough will not have time to spread.

This is what came to mind so far. If I forgot something, then they will supplement me)) Or I will remember myself later))

Do not despair. Try to bake rye-wheat on a dough for comparison (Admin has a very good recipe). If everything works out, then take on the restoration of your leaven. Good luck))

[Viki]

Viki
session of simultaneous replies))

Yesterday's bread has already been eaten, they demand more
But with these leavens, the child has a very good excuse for washing dishes. I ask: "Why didn't you wash the sour plate?" And he answered: "I was afraid. I thought it was you who were raising someone else."

[Viki]

Viki
Vika, what is the recipe for rye-wheat in your photo?

[Viki]

Viki
Vika, what is the recipe for rye-wheat in your photo?

Lena, this is Darnitsky from Luda. Only I baked it in a round shape and used my (our) Frenchwoman.

Girls, thank you very much for the detailed master classes and point-by-point explanations!
As in any business, here, too, you have to go through trial and error. Simply, like any normal person, I want to reduce their number to a minimum.

Sorry for the bother, but is it better to do the notches after kneading at the beginning of the proofing or just before baking?

Sorry for the bother, but is it better to do the notches after kneading at the beginning of the proofing or just before baking?

For example, I do it before proofing, so as not to disturb the dough later, or even a beautiful bun might blow out.
And I make cuts, as someone suggested, with an ordinary razor.
Very convenient, I advise.

- before making cuts, gently grease the surface with flour (I do it with a brush), then the dough is easier to cut;

THANKS for the advice, let's put it in our piggy bank !!

The razor is interesting too. Thanks for the idea!

[kava]

kava, I do not see any annoyance.If they ask us, it means that someone needs our drugs ...
I make cuts on a distant bread before planting in the oven. Keep the blade at a right angle to the bread and try not to tilt it. We cut with a sharp movement. Cut, anoint (or sprinkle) and oven.
By the way, in addition to the razor, a surgeon's scalpel and a wallpaper knife from a building materials store are suitable.

[Viki]

Viki
And with an incision before planting, on a distant bread, there is no BLOWING out of the bread ???
I can't make an incision after proofing, there is a slight blow off.
Only the baguettes pass normally.

[Viki]

Viki
And with an incision before planting, on a distant bread, there is no BLOWING out of the bread ???

No, it is not deflated. If properly shaped and well spaced, it should not deflate. But what's the difference before or after, the main thing is that our bread is delicious and beautiful!

[Viki]

By the way, in addition to the razor, a surgeon's scalpel and a wallpaper knife from a building materials store are suitable.

yeah, and some, like me, also use dangerous razors for this purpose)

Viki
And with an incision before planting, on a distant bread, there is no BLOWING out of the bread ???
I can't make an incision after proofing, there is a slight blow off.
Only the baguettes pass normally.

She herself suffered from this. Then I realized that blowing off occurs only if the bread OVER stood in the proofer and / and was not formed correctly. Now I do it AFTER proofing and nothing is blown away.
Look, this video helped me very, very much, and what kind of device is used for notches Not only we are strong at inventions
🔗

I have two more "desktop" videos, about the correct steaming and under the lid. They helped me. Look who is interested.

🔗

🔗

Where do you store the leaven? I read that it is impossible in the refrigerator.

My sourdough still lives in the hallway on the bedside table, it is the coolest there now. You have to feed her every day, or even twice a day, if she is very violent. In the future, I plan to move her to the cellar, where I just have a temperature of about 10-12 *.