Shaped wheat-rye bread with kefir sourdough from Admin. ( in the oven)

The first is whether it is possible to bake wheat-rye bread in a bread maker, since my oven is not very good. And the second one.

Almost all my breads can be baked in a bread maker, for this I have specially made a topic where I show two baking options at once - for the oven and for the bread machine.

Here, try it.

Wheat-rye-corn hearth bread from Admin.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=6229.0

I bake this bread in a bread maker. Instead of dry kvass and beer, I put ordinary kvass. I reduce all products by 2 times, otherwise they will not bake. It turns out a regular-sized loaf

What kind of bread is obtained from one glass of flour.
I do everything in a bread maker, everything is baked

What kind of bread is obtained from one glass of flour.
I do everything in a bread maker, everything is baked

There are also almost 2 cups of sourdough in there, so the bread is normal size.

By the way, I wanted to ask - should you put the leaven directly from the refrigerator or should you first revive it? I put it in different ways, once I even poured kefir and poured flour, I wanted to set it to revive, but I had to immediately set it to bake. The bread turned out well, only without sourness, my husband liked it even more

By the way, I wanted to ask - should you put the leaven directly from the refrigerator or do you need to revive it first? I put it in different ways, once I even poured kefir and poured flour, I wanted to set it to revive, but I had to immediately set it to bake. The bread turned out well, only without sourness, my husband liked it even more

The sourdough must be fed before baking the bread.

It is just the fermented leaven that gives that specific sourness in bread.

Kefir - so kefir, do what your husband likes best

I baked bread yesterday based on this recipe with my own willfulness. It turned out very tasty, thanks. I pulled the bread out of the oven last night, I wanted to take a picture in the morning, but it wasn’t there. The husband and son sat up late at the computer, well, and the little boy refreshed himself. In the morning, the remnants of luxury were waiting for me on the table.

I struggled for a long time with the acidity of the leaven, it turned out too bright for me in bread. I wanted to get rid of it in the heat of the moment. I tried to switch to rye breads without natural sourdough, but I don't like the taste and smell of rye flour in such breads. If the source of rye flour is sourdough, then the taste and aroma of bread is completely different. I still could not achieve harmony of taste, until I came to common truths on my mistakes. I dare to voice them for those who want to use kefir sourdough in bread, but I like the subtle, unobtrusive sourness:
- the amount of fermented starter culture should be approximately equal to the amount of feeding. If the amount of sourdough is much higher than the top dressing, then the starved biomass eats everything at one moment, without having time to refresh and reborn, and the acidity of the sourdough constantly increases. And it grows to such an extent that even yeast stops working in such an acidic environment, and the sourdough itself begins to "skip" and does not pull out the rise of the dough, it has experienced all the "charm" of such a degeneration (it began to feed in equal volumes, it turned out much better, now I will try to switch to feeding in equal weight proportions, so it will be more convenient to calculate the amount of flour-liquid in recipes);
- select your amount of sourdough in recipes, 3-3.5 glasses (may Admin forgive me), it turned out to be a lot for me,
the average amount at which the bread became tasty for me is about 300 ml. It is impossible to strictly observe the amount of sourdough indicated in the recipes, because the sourdough itself can be of completely different acidity, it finally came to me. And then I wondered why some say that they have delicious bread with sourdough, while others complain about the vinegar taste;
- do not hesitate to taste your sourdough before use and the dough itself when kneading, so along the way you can estimate what acidity the sourdough came out with and how the dough comes out, and save the bread if necessary by adding flour-sugar.

maybe, I'm talking about things that are self-evident, but for me they were a revelation))

[Zest]

"- select your amount of sourdough in recipes, 3-3.5 glasses (may Admin forgive me), it turned out to be a lot for me,
the average amount at which the bread became tasty for me is about 300 ml. It is impossible to strictly observe the amount of sourdough indicated in the recipes, because the sourdough itself can be of completely different acidity, it finally came to me. And then I wondered why some say that they have delicious bread with sourdough, while others complain about the vinegar taste;
- do not hesitate to taste your sourdough before use and the dough itself when kneading, so along the way you can estimate what acidity the sourdough came out with and how the dough comes out, and save the bread, if necessary, by adding flour-sugar. "


Zest, and I constantly talk about it, and I constantly answer "gallop in grams".

And I don't have to do it once at a time, different sourdoughs are obtained in consistency, in quantity, in taste and in baking.
The recipe is published once - and the baked goods are made many times and always different.
A recipe is a guideline of what can be done this way and from what products, and then it needs to be adapted to suit your taste.

That's right, you look at baked goods for the same products - and they all turn out differently, including to taste - whoever liked it praised, didn't succeed or didn't like it, they are silent.

And you shouldn't be offended by the author of the recipe. This is tantamount to being offended by your taste preferences, which in this bread recipe did not coincide with the author's.

The best advisor is your own experience!

I am very glad that you went through this, and found your own taste, success

Girls, what is all the same recipe for this bread for a bread machine, who tried it?

Girls, please explain to me how to achieve such a beautiful, smooth surface like your bread? Since the rye flour and sourdough appeared in our house, my husband announced that he only liked gray bread. It is certainly joyful, but ... Experiments with pure rye bread were not crowned with success (the result in the topic is 100% rye). I decided to try the wheat-rye version of the Resultat in the photo

I baked bread according to this recipe and ... it didn't work out, the first time everything was so awful: the dough turned out to be liquid, but I did not add flour, I thought it would be baked, 3 cups of sourdough was for me veryoooo, it turned out to be sour sour (can sourdough peroxide, I don't know), but when I baked for this https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1064.0 recipe, instead of kefir using MK, everything was OK both in taste and in acid ...
And today's one is also stuck to the form, in general, in frustration I am right ... I will not experiment anymore, I will bake what I liked ...

My unsuccessful experiments with rye bread continue: after transferring the n-th number of products and baking dishes (the ceramics burst due to the temperature drop), but without achieving positive results in the oven, I decided to return to the bread maker again. : - \ Also not a barrel-organ: before baking, the dough has time to rise and fall. : '(Moreover, if you take out the spatula immediately after kneading and do one long proofing, then by the end of it, bubbles begin to form on the dough (apparently the dough is acidifying, although I reduced the amount of sourdough), and in the finished product the roof and porous bread only sag in the upper part of the bread, and on the sides and on the bottom there is a dense crumb, and if the paddle is not removed, then after the third kneading, the dough does not have enough strength for the third rise.
My leaven is old and gluttonous (that's why I put less of it). Wheat flour changed several times and yeast too. Unfortunately, I cannot change the rye, as there is no alternative.
I cannot determine what I am doing wrong, but by trial and error I am stupidly translating products. Tell good people what to do?

[three lifts are not needed]

then after the third workout the test lacks strength for the third rise.
Tell good people what to do?

Neither wheat-rye nor pure rye dough three lifts are not needed!
Therefore, the dough and peroxides that it is forced to rise three times.

What to do? First, take a break and save up money for food.

Try to stop and think about your mistakes, analyze everything, read tips and put together the correct scheme for kneading, proving and baking bread for yourself.

If you want, try to bake my wheat-rye bread in a bread maker. It is problem-free and tasty, many succeed. Just do not make any of your changes and additions, but only carefully observe the process, this will help you further.

Now I will find the link and throw it off.

Wheat-rye "Darnitskiy" bread by Admin (page 11, Answer 159)
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=596.180


Good luck!

Admin thanks for the recipe. I have been looking for it for a long time, and yesterday the bread came true, but it’s gone, the loaf is too small. I baked it in the oven like everyone else, because I don't have any. But there are several buts: firstly, my leaven did not happen until I threw yeast on it. and I already noticed that I can't do sourdough with rye flour in any way, while from wheat vein for a very long time (water and flour in half a weekly feeding) and raised any dough without yeast at all, but for a long time during the night. In addition, I accordingly reduced the amount of yeast in the main recipe and replaced 100 gr. white flour for dark rustic and 50 for rye. The result, as it was said, exceeded all my expectations. Thank you!

Thank you for your feedback, nice to hear!

Well, everyone succeeds in their own way, the most important thing is what happens, and it's good

Can be done without yeast, this is a longer process
Yeast simply speeds up the proofing process.

I wish you success!

Tell me, are other types of bread also being discussed? Here I was once in the eternal city and I still remember the bread there ... delicious. not "soft fluffy melting in the mouth" but on the contrary, dense, elastic, "rubber" if this word is appropriate here, requiring a fair amount of work of the jaws when chewing ... There was a similar bread in Georgia - there are more holes inside than crumb ... understands what I mean? Help me find / create a recipe - I will be very grateful.

Admin, please tell me what kind of bread spices do you use? what composition or what are they called? and why do you have a masculine name?

Tell me, are other types of bread also being discussed? Here I was once in the eternal city and I still remember the bread there ... delicious. not "soft fluffy melting in the mouth" but on the contrary, dense, elastic, "rubber" if this word is appropriate here, requiring a fair amount of work of the jaws when chewing ... There was a similar bread in Georgia - there are more holes inside than crumb ... understands what I mean? Help me find / create a recipe - I will be very grateful.

The eternal city is Rome, or what? If there, then the flour there is different and water and yeast. Technologies are also different ...
As you describe, this is most likely sourdough bread without milk. Go to the section
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=4994.0maybe something will come in handy.

Admin, please tell me what kind of bread spices do you use? what composition or what are they called? and why do you have a masculine name?

I am not an Admin, but the composition of everything indicates in great detail which additives. Read carefully. They, these additives, depend, it seems to me, on personal preferences - you can dry dill or something else, independently prepared, or a purchased set of Provencal herbs.

And Admin is not necessarily masculine, it is one of the derivatives of another feminine name. Well, like, for example, Alexandra - Shura, etc.

[Polinka]

Admin, please tell me what kind of bread spices do you use? what composition or what are they called? and why do you have a masculine name?

Polinka , I answer your question you asked me.

I already wrote about my NICK - this is a derivative of the full name, there is a woman MISHA on the forum.

Bread spices include
whole cumin 5 servings
coarsely ground coriander 2 servings.
anise grains 1 serving
fennel grain 1 serving

I mix all the spices in a jar, keep them closed under the lid.

I use 1 tbsp. a measuring spoon for 400-500 grams of wheat-rye dough flour, such spices are well suited for buckwheat dough.

I borrowed this composition of spices from Pokhlebkin.

I buy spices in measuring cups from Uzbeks in the market.

Good luck!

And I use dill, coriander and cumin. Grind on a coffee grinder and put a lot, taste and aroma !!! Can be purchased at the pharmacy.

Gentlemen, lightly and seriously injured by baking, I still have a question: should oatmeal be soaked or added alive like that? I soaked it, everything fermented well and rose, but in the finished form the crumb came out a little a lot. What to do? well, who is to blame? by the way, but it remained fresh for quite a long time.

Gentlemen, lightly and seriously injured by baking, I still have a question: do you need to soak oatmeal or add it alive?

I soaked, and steamed, and added live. So: most of all I like it alive and so that with the liquid before the kneading, no, no! In second place - I pour hot milk + honey + butter, and when it cools down, then everything else. But! Keep in mind that everyone has different tastes .... I am one of the "seriously wounded", so I will tell you this: until you try all the options, you will not find your own.

You also need to take into account the fact that, depending on the type of flakes, the crumb in the finished bread may be slightly damp, this is also not for everybody. Dry flakes will require more liquid to mix.

Thank you. I will try further, I will report the results. But there are also such strains: there is unbleached wheat flour, so-called. rustic. Do you think it can completely replace ordinary wheat? And I also really want to try adding buckwheat flour somewhere. Do you think it's not dangerous? And the last thing for today before my baking tomorrow - everyone has an equal chance to give the best advice on the above questions!

Thank you. I will try further, I will report the results. But there are also such strains: there is unbleached wheat flour, so-called. rustic. Do you think it can completely replace ordinary wheat? And I also really want to try adding buckwheat flour somewhere. Do you think it's not dangerous? And the last thing for today before my tomorrow's baked goods - everyone has an equal chance to give the best advice on the above questions!

To add buckwheat flour - no danger, do not poison yourself. The question is how much to add. Look at the recipes on the forum, discussed several times today.

You can replace flour, only different flour takes water in different ways, adjust the bun.

Our advice on the forum depends on our preparedness for baking bread, experience.

... I left my grandmother and grandfather, and even more so from Viktosh. Rather, it’s me he him in the sense that the dough is pretty liquid. I do not crush it as it is, after proofing, I fill it into a mold there it fits while the oven is heating and baking. Am I doing something wrong in your opinion? I added buckwheat flour, I really didn’t poison it, but I didn’t taste the delicacy either.But did anyone use soy flour?

so I took this recipe of yours as a basis - kvass and sugar removed wheat white replacing unbleached one added buckwheat. Well, maybe I didn’t put it right - it didn’t flow, of course, and was thicker than on pancakes, but you couldn’t roll anything out of it without adding flour — neither sausage nor even a bun. And so the bread came out normal and baked normally, I would not want it denser.

He made wheat-rye bread on beer with the addition of kefir sourdough. Since it was not said anywhere what kind of wheat flour the people use, I used a bakery of the highest grade. Everything is fine, but the taste of the bread gave off a loaf. He clearly did not live up to the present. After a long fur the Internet, I sniffed out that flour of the 2nd grade is used for black bread. With great difficulty I got it out and yesterday baked with this flour. It rose, of course, it is worse, but it tasted like real rye. The structure of the bread is finely spongy. Rye flour for Darnitsky must be clearly reduced, but for Karelian just right. I will try Karelian.

And none of the authors give you a full guarantee that by copying the recipe you will receive bread that you personally like.

Our tastes just didn't match.

Taste and search for your bread taste

I, too, today pulled out my leaven, fed her and put the dough overnight. I do not add yeast, so it takes a long time. I use whole flour and rye and wheat flour. A little more water is required. I have a problem with the form - the dough sticks. I tried to put baking paper inside the mold so it stuck to the bread.

Yes, I forgot to ask what should be done to make the top shine? and soaked with water and smeared with oil and no effect.

No need to grease before baking. After baking, brush with vegetable oil while still hot, it works well with olive oil. The crust will become softer and shinier.

Yesterday I baked bread based on the peasant's (from the recipe book). But since the original recipe has undergone a lot of changes, I post it in a separate recipe:

potato broth - 270 ml
salt - 1.5 tsp.
dark sugar - 2 tsp
wheat flour - 250g
rye flour - 220 g
pressed yeast - 10g
sourdough - 4 tbsp. l.
gluten - 2 tsp
bran - 1.5 tbsp. l.
vegetable oil - 2 tbsp. l.

basic mode, medium crust, weight 750g

I estimate the result of Friday baking as positive.

... and also bakery products from Viktoshi

Admin, yesterday I baked bread according to your recipe. Thank you so much for developing it. Bread is just a fairy tale - and taste and crumb, yum, yum, yum. The family died in one sitting as soon as it cooled down. I didn't even have time to take a picture. ...
But I have a couple of questions for you - what role does beer play in the recipe? You can replace it with something, for example. for potato broth, whey. And can dry kvass be replaced with malt? Well, we don't sell dry kvass, and even in winter. And I generally forgot to put the chicory Thanks again for the recipe

[Dark]

But I have a couple of questions for you - what role does beer play in the recipe? You can replace it with something, for example. for potato broth, whey. And can dry kvass be replaced with malt? Well, we don't sell dry kvass, and even in winter. And I generally forgot to put the chicory Thanks again for the recipe

Dark beer contains rye, barley malt, there are varieties containing hops, this is what is needed to improve the properties of rye dough. Read the composition on the beer label.

Beer is beer. The potato broth does not contain malt. But also has good dough lifting power. Rye dough requires strength and acid.
It is in beer. If you make on potatoes (it is better to take boiled potatoes), then add old cottage cheese, sour grated apple for the acid.
There is a recipe for such rye bread with cottage cheese in my gallery, look.

Read the composition of kvass: it contains rye and barley malt.If there is natural malt, why replace it with kvass?
I use kvass for one reason - we don't have natural malt!

You do not need to put chicory, it does not carry any load on the structure of the dough. Chicory only gives the dough a dark color.

Bake and eat for health

Roma, have you ever used unfermented malt? Belovodye began to produce it under the name Malodukha, sprouted grain of rye, dried and ground into grains.
Will it replace fermented rye malt, or will it just replace rye flour?

No, Alexandra, I didn't.

In the spring I will get out to Moscow with a big bag and stock up on all the delights of bakery. I'm not going now.

Roma, have you ever used unfermented malt? Belovodye began to produce it under the name Malodukha, sprouted grain of rye, dried and ground into grains.
Will it replace fermented rye malt, or will it just replace rye flour?

You will excuse me to interfere with the conversation of the luminaries, but from what is said here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8003.0 It seems to indicate that unfermented malt is much more active than fermented malt (which is mainly used for color and aroma). True, how exactly he acts on flour, I did not really understand, I only understood that if the flour is weak, then jokes with him are bad.

Personally, I proceed from the fact that "fish without fish and cancer"

If neither one nor the other is on sale - what to do?

We use what we have, improve the flour and dough with other additives in the dough (dark beer, boiled potatoes, etc.), replace one with another, etc.

What is written in the article is great and you need to know it, but being able to make substitutions to achieve a good test is also very important.

This is my opinion and I do it (life makes)

Thank you for reading carefully the forum materials

I didn’t use the extract, but 100g pure unfermented rye malt per 500g wheat grain and flour, and added panifarin. Intuitively, but also according to the description of the action, and also according to the organoleptic properties of the resulting bread - the very same

And I, due to my illiteracy and lack of curiosity, did not know that the sprouted grains (which we sell are wheat) are malt. and added it I don't know, changing them, for example, wheat flour or my favorite country flour. I thought that in this way I enrich the bread with vitamin E as written on the package. I did not notice any change in the behavior of the dough and in the taste of the bread. It does not grow stale for a long time - it's true. I just don't have time ...

[Malt - germinated, dried and ground grain.]

MALT
information from the site
🔗

Malt - germinated, dried and ground grain. For the preparation of red rye malt, before drying, there is also languishing or fermentation.

The raw materials for malt production are mainly rye and barley, but millet, oats and other grains are also used.
There are two types of malt: white - enzymatically active and red, enzymatically inactive. White is predominantly made from barley and red from rye.

Malt is used in many branches of the food and flavoring industries: bakery, brewing, distilling, yeast production.

In baking, red rye malt is used to prepare various varieties of rye (custard, Borodino, amateur) and wheat (tea, Karelian-Finnish) bread. White malt is included in the recipe for Riga bread. Red rye malt imparts aroma, taste and characteristic color to bread, which is especially important when making rye bread from wallpaper flour to improve its taste, and when making bread from 2nd grade wheat flour (85%) to add flavor, more pleasant color and better elasticity (malt with part of the flour is brewed).

“In the brewing industry for the preparation of S., it is mainly barley, and sometimes wheat, which is used; in addition to barley, oats, rye, wheat, and in America, maize are also used in distillery. whether C.in dried or fresh form, distinguish between S. dry and S. green. "I pulled this from Wikipedia.

Good day!

I bake bread according to your recipe with kefir sourdough. And I had a question - can you bake sourdough bread on a timer ... well, I mean, put everything in HP in the evening and set a timer for the morning. What do you think ... nothing can happen to the leaven overnight without supervision ... well, let's say it won't run away?

Good day!

I bake bread according to your recipe with kefir sourdough. And I had a question - can you bake sourdough bread on a timer ... well, I mean, put everything in HP in the evening and set a timer for the morning. What do you think ... nothing can happen to the leaven overnight without supervision ... well, let's say it won't run away?

An acquaintance of mine at HP Kenwood puts a batch in the evening and bakes with a timer for the morning. It bakes rye in sourdough, but not kefir.

Admin, good afternoon !!
And again, I ... will pester you with stupid questions. I have been baking this bread on a regular basis 2 times a week for a month already ... but I have never got such a beautiful dome as yours, I have never had a more precise dome. The bread has the correct brick shape ... and so you want aesthetics. True, I bake in HP. And the last sourdough I got was sooooo thick and I decided to experiment, when loading the components into HP I added another 100 grams of rye flour. The dome did work out, but it was all cracked with such small streaks. It looked like dried clay after a long drought, but it tasted like that, the crust is not hard.

I decided to take a picture of my bread to make it clearer.



View from above





and in the context

[highly]

I always make rye bread in this way, though without beer and chicory,highly delicious turns out
yesterday I ventured to try to make it without yeast and in HP.
In the afternoon, I took out the leaven from the refrigerator, allowed it to warm up, fed it - there was a glass of old kefir and half a glass of whey, added flour to the consistency of a dough for pancakes, left it until evening. At around 22:00 poured into a bucket 400gr. leaven,
a glass (230 ml) (on the scales 130 g.) wheat flour
1 tbsp. l. olive oil
1.5 table. l. honey
2 table. l. milk powder
2 tsp salt
3 tbsp. l. dry kvass
amount of ingredients per small loaf
in the process of mixing added another 2cl. tablespoons of rye flour
Kneading in the "dough" mode, in this mode the oven kneads for the first 20 minutes, the dough was not as liquid as that of Admin, almost a normal bun, smeared a little along the bottom. Next time I will try to make it thinner, as Admin advises.
Immediately after the batch, she turned off the stove and left everything until morning. At 10 in the morning she crossed herself and turned on baking. An hour later the bread was readyPts. tasty crispy crust, evenly perforated flesh. The bread didn’t wait for it to cool down completely, I was losing a quarter for breakfast.

Tell me how much malt can be put instead of kvass according to this recipe, I only have malt and then I need to put beer or not.
I met information that malt should not be steamed with boiling water, and in other places this is exactly what they recommend.