"Eternal" leaven

Hello everybody! Thank you for the Eternal Leaven recipe. The bread tasted great. I spent many days on the site before I tried my hand.
I am happy to say that everything worked out, despite the strange behavior of the leaven on the 3rd day before baking. I insured myself and put in some yeast.
Baked according to the Susley recipe (forgive me if I do not correctly name them).
I adjusted the recipe for myself a little and added water instead of whey, 1 tbsp. l. malt + 3 tbsp. l. boiling water (subtracted from the total volume of liquid) 2h .. l panifarin.
I didn’t add agram as the leaven had enough acid.
The disadvantages of course were on my part. I overexposed it during proofing, but not much.
On the "dough" mode, kneading for 30 minutes.
gluten-free proofing 2.40
"baking" 1.10 (turned off 7 minutes earlier)
I will try HP with the "Rye" mode on this mode, but I doubt that there will be enough time to rise.
I'm new to the site, sorry if I haven't figured it out.

Hello everybody!
I caught fire with the idea of ​​sourdough bread and got to your forum.
I am already on my way to creating a leaven and to begin with I have a couple of questions:

- if you make sourdough on rye flour, then you need to bake from rye flour or a mixture of rye and wheat? that is, if the oven is only made of wheat flour, then it is better to make the leaven from wheat flour (not the highest grade), do I understand correctly?

- if the bread maker does not have a mode for baking bread only from rye flour, is it better not to try (from a mixture of rye and wheat baked)? or try to combine several programs to make rye bread? my mom is worried that the dough just won't be kneaded well.

Hello everybody!
I caught fire with the idea of ​​sourdough bread and got to your forum.
I am already on my way to creating a leaven and to begin with I have a couple of questions:

- if you make sourdough on rye flour, then you need to bake from rye flour or a mixture of rye and wheat? that is, if the oven is only made of wheat flour, then it is better to make the leaven from wheat flour (not the highest grade), do I understand correctly?

- if the bread maker does not have a mode for baking bread only from rye flour, is it better not to try (from a mixture of rye and wheat baked)? or try to combine several programs to make rye bread? my mom is worried that the dough just won't be kneaded well.

1. In the very first message of the topic it is written that it doesn't matter, and you can combine it in any way - to bake rye bread with wheat leaven and vice versa.

2. Try to start with small loaves - there you will see the possibilities of the bread maker's capacity.

1. In the very first message of the topic it is written that it doesn't matter, and you can combine it in any way - to bake rye bread with wheat leaven and vice versa.

oh, inattentive I, I read and overlooked, I should read it again

thanks for answers

Hello!
For the seventh day now, I've been feeding a mixture of rye flour (garnets) and water in the hope of getting a sourdough, but the result is small bubbles. The rise and increase in 2 times did not work out. (It seems that I followed all the rules.
Tell me what could be a problem.

Portrait of the Eternal Leaven. The quality of the photo is not very good, because it was taken with a soap box on a simple microscope. But you can still see small round lactic acid streptococci and sticks and plump starter yeast.
By the way, this is a photo of the starter culture after the refrigerator. When it rises and puffs, the "population" is twice as large

🔗

Good afternoon zhubi.
I am also, in principle, a beginner in sourdough baking, but this is the first time I've come across a mixture of rye flour (garnets). I made a sourdough with plain peeled rye flour. I fed her for three days in a row in the proportion of 100 grams. for 100g. the leaven behaved really strange for two days.On the fourth day before baking, it doubled in volume !!!!
My leaven is almost a month old. Lives in the fridge !!! I tried not to touch her for 7 days, and to my surprise, nothing happened to her. Got it out of the cold. fed and after 5 hours she was ready to use.
As I wrote earlier, in the "Rye" mode this bread did not work for me.
So you have to combine programs. I would be extremely grateful to all bakers who can suggest an easier way to bake rye in KhP !!!!

I have a Panas 255. I knead the rye starter in the "Pelmeni" mode. After an hour I turn on the stirrer for 1-2 minutes. Then the final proofing. Depending on the strength of the leaven, 2-4 hours. I look at the volume. And then baking separately for 1 hour. Of course not automatic, but the bread is great

I'm sorry! And I have a question:
How can a stirrer be turned on in HP? Or am I not catching up with something?
It turns out that in an hour you turn on the batch again? If I understood correctly, then explain why the second time to interfere with it? After all, the dough is perfect from one batch. Please tell us in more detail if it's not difficult for you.

I act on the principle of wheat dough - I release carbon dioxide. Maybe this is not important for rye, but according to my observations, if you put on proofing for 2-5 hours, and then bake (without stirring after an hour), pulp with large holes turns out. And we like the holes to be smaller.
By the way, large holes and voids are obtained when I rarely bake bread. The microbiological picture then shows that there is a lot of yeast and little fermented milk. In this case, it helps to feed the leaven with acidophilic or Mechnikovskaya yogurt instead of water (1: 1 with water)
To mix - I turn on the "Pelmeni" mode again, and after 2 minutes I turn it off.

Thank you, now I understand. Somewhere on the site I read the concerns about mixing the dough again, and was afraid to do it, and now I will try as you advise.
The recipe by which I bake rye contains 200g. serum, but I didn't want to bother with it and I replaced it with water. Now you will need to try to put on the serum.
And about the big holes you are absolutely right !!!!!
I really rarely bake bread (once a week) there are large holes and voids in it. I give the dough proofing 2.20 + -. His roof turns out to be flat, and if it is overstated, then it is not convex at all, but "convex". I would like to bring this recipe to perfection, but have not yet succeeded.
What recipe do you use for baking rye? Can you share?
I described below on which one I bake.
I have a photo of my bread, but I have not figured out how to place it and show it on the site. Can the moderators help ??

[Take a look here]

I have a photo of my bread, but I have not figured out how to place it and show it on the site. Can the moderators help ??

Of course we will help! I'd love to see your bread in all its glory!
Take a look here

Ideally, this is when +10 - +12 degrees.

And if the temperature dropped to +8 and the ICD died, can they be resumed somehow? Or is it necessary to grow a new leaven?

And if the temperature dropped to +8 and the ICD died, can they be resumed somehow?

After three feedings, it will recover and rejuvenate, it will be as good as new. They got it out of the cold, allowed it to warm up, fed it, matured - they fed it more and so on three times. Good luck to you!

And I feed her with Mechnikov's or ordinary yogurt. Lactic acid bacteria are immediately replenished. I don’t like to feed kefir. He brings his kefir yeast, different from starter yeast.

Let me ask the experienced bakers a question too.
I just bought a hb Panasonic yesterday, and baked ordinary white bread according to the recipe from the instructions. And I really want to bake sourdough bread))
This eternal leaven, how do you know how much you need to put in the dough? Because I read recipes, then they put it in 3.5 measuring glasses, then 3.5 tablespoons ???
Please help with an explanation)
Thank you in advance.

After three feedings, it will recover and rejuvenate, it will be as good as new.They got it out of the cold, allowed it to warm up, fed it, matured - fed it three more times. Good luck to you!

Hello! I put in the leaven, but I can't bake bread on the third day. Today is the second day, fed. How to proceed, I want to bake on Sunday:
put in the refrigerator, get it on Sunday, warm it at room temperature, feed it once ... will not have time to ripen? Or let it stand warm until Sunday ... but will it not dry out? There is no time after the refrigerator (if you put it there) three times to feed again ... Tell me ... in There is little time left (

... will it turn sour?

If you feed it on time, it will definitely not turn sour.
Don't put it in the fridge, just feed it until Sunday.
In order not to collect a lot, throw away part, feed the rest. Everything will be fine! Good luck with your bread!

Thanks Viki!

There is something wrong with the leaven. How I did it: 100 high grade Makfa flour (there is no other nearby) \ 100 warm water. A day later, there were signs of bubbling, another 100/100. A day later, like a small hat, it began to rise, I fed it the same way, on the third day, they took it out today, there are no caps, no bubbles, the water was cut off from above (like on pancake dough it happens when it stands). I poured half into the sink, added another 100 \ 100, can it come to life? What did you do wrong? thanks for answers...

.... a day has passed, in the morning it seems to start foaming, now it has fallen out again. Throw it out? Answer !!!!

Throw it out?

Is not a fact. You now have a sourdough culture, where there is a lot of acid and yeast bacteria are suppressed. You can take one spoonful of this sourdough and feed it with 50 or 100 g of flour with water. When it starts stirring, add the feed again, or, better yet, discard some of it and renew it again so that the sourdough is no more than the feed by weight. It should come to life in two or three feedings.
Why peroxide: the amount of sourdough you had during its accumulation exceeded the amount of feed, and this is allowed only when growing, and then only with rye. While it ripens, it usually becomes thinner, so there is a lot of liquid and it is on top. To treat the leaven when the liquid is on top, you can make it thicker, if the liquid is at the bottom, it is dead.
Try, if you have 50 g of sourdough, for example, feed it so that there is at least 50 g of feed, and preferably 100, that is, 50 g of water and 50 g of flour per 50 g of sourdough.

Take a newbie .... I got acquainted with the recipe for "eternal" and the question arose. There will be a lot of starter culture, but I don't know how much to use it? When to fill it in my HP?

Well answer poh-ah-ah-a-luista! : cray: How much sourdough do you need to pour on bread baking? And pour it to the bottom? Today is the third day, the leaven is good. I want to bake bread ...

Quiet! Don't cry!
I put the starter culture 1/3 of the total amount of flour in the recipe.
that is, if the flour according to the recipe is 600 g, then I take about 400 g of 100% sourdough (after all, it contains 200 flour * 200 water)
This proportion can be reduced, but it is not worth increasing

[y.tatiana.7]

Well answer poh-ah-ah-a-luista! : cray: How much sourdough do you need to pour on bread baking? And pour it to the bottom?

y.tatiana.7
I am acting on the recommendation of Scarecrow from the topic about Kalvel's leaven. Wait, I'll copy her words for you: "Optimally, in my opinion, when the ferment covers 20% -30% of the FLOUR specified in the recipe. For example, if the recipe indicates 500g of flour, then the flour in the ferment should have from 100g to about 170g That is, this is 200g - 340g of ready-made sourdough (do not forget that we have equal content of flour and water) .If you use only sourdough for raising bread, it makes sense to take more of it (340g), if also sourdough, and yeast, 200gr will be enough. " More details here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=7314.100

I put the sourdough between the flour, but I think it can be at the bottom of the bucket, and flour on top. Once it happened that I poured water with salt dissolved in it directly on the leaven, and that time my bread did not rise. Since then, I put the leaven between the flour.
Happy sourdough bread!

: rose: Midnight lady and Arka Thank you very much for not letting the leaven "cry and perish"!

Welcome to the starter club!

Good day to all !!!! She began to bake with eternal leaven in March.Everything was fine, and somehow everything worked out right away))) But one "fine" day, the jar of starter culture broke and I had to make a new one, I did it, on the third day I baked bread, put the rest in the refrigerator, well, in general, everything was according to the instructions
BUT! when I once again took out the leaven from the refrigerator to feed it and bake bread, I realized that it smells like acetone !!!!, I had to throw it out. Hence the question what could be the reason that my leaven died ???
P. s. I make the sourdough on rye flour and water.

Tell me pliz where is my mistake ???

Most likely, she was still weak for the refrigerator ...
I ran mine again throughout the cycle, so that it got stronger, otherwise it would acidify quickly. Apparently some processes did not have time to end

Good morning everyone! Maybe someone can't sleep already? : hi: It's already 7-50 in Minsk, it's time to go to work ... But I can't get some bread .... About 15 minutes after I “loaded” everything and the dough in HP turned out to be liquid. Even the flour from the walls does not cover all. Prescription: flour - 560g, water 300, etc. After calculating flour 400g water 200 sourdough 170g. Can you tell me what I calculated wrong?

[y.tatiana.7]

y.tatiana.7, we overslept the question ...
Still relevant? or has it happened already?

[y.tatiana.7]

y.tatiana.7, we overslept the question ...
Still relevant? or has it happened already?

I turned off the oven and added 100 grams of flour. Now it seems normal. I put the program again. Hoping for the best

I don't understand anything at all. The leaven remains 0.5l (poured into a glass jar). Stands on the table. But it is growing! ... I will still bake today, the children ordered sweet bread. Can I use this leaven? I have it made of rye flour and water. And how much to pour it now? And how much to reduce the water?

Arka please answer. Sleep again

[by weight]

If you have 100% sourdough, i.e. by weight 1 * 1 water / flour, then when you are going to add N-amount of sourdough, subtract N / 2 flour and water from the existing recipe. Clear? or more specifically with an example?
Sourdough can be put into almost any dough so that it does not disappear. for example https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=101996.0

[y.tatiana.7]

y.tatiana.7, you can also look at the pictures and descriptions of the processes https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=102164.0

and maybe on "you"?

[by weight]

If you have 100% sourdough, i.e. by weight 1 * 1 water / flour, then when you are going to add N-amount of sourdough, subtract N / 2 flour and water from the existing recipe. Clear? or more specifically with an example?
Sourdough can be put into almost any dough so that it does not disappear. for example https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=101996.0

Not ... I'm probably completely dull ... What does 100% mean?

Forgive me what is 100% - I understand. And then ...

I was just on your screensaver, I read everything, looked and thought: when will I be so SMART? Sourdough 1x1 water flour, but it grows and I don't know how to count the amount of water and flour after it has grown.

[weigh it!]

100% means 100 grams of water per 100 grams of flour (exactly by weight, not by volume)
it is elementary to calculate such a leaven in recipes
you simply remove half the weight of the added starter from the recipe amount
eg:
want to add 200g of sourdough to the recipe
the recipe contains 500 g of flour, 300 ml (g) of water
200 g of sourdough contains 100 g of flour and 100 g of water
it means that 100 flour and water must be removed from the prescription amount
Remains according to the recipe: 200 yeast, 400 flour and 200 water
understandably?

so don't look at its volume! weigh it!

I am one of those ............... who bought HP and did not buy scales ...

then before buying scales, act by eye
read about the formation of koloboks from different types of flour:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=102005.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49811.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49810.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49808.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1625.0

Most likely, she was still weak for the refrigerator ...
I ran mine again throughout the cycle, so that it strengthened, otherwise it would acidify quickly. Apparently, some processes did not have time to end

that is, it needs to be fed for another 3 days and then only bake bread? did I understand you correctly?

I fed mine for 8 days in general, and only then began to store it in the refrigerator. Again, the temperature must be at least 13-12 degrees, otherwise it is hard for the ICD to survive.Especially with a thermometer, I adjusted the operation of the refrigerator until I found a mode and a shelf with a suitable temperature.
If you rarely bake, then you need to take the leaven out of the refrigerator every 5 days and bring it to life: let it warm up and feed, after that you can store it again

Something I can’t succeed .... Out of three attempts, only once the bread went up by 2/3, in contrast to the yeast one. But it was baked and delicious. I don’t understand what am I doing wrong?

Something I can’t succeed .... Out of three attempts, only once the bread went up by 2/3, in contrast to the yeast one. But it was baked and delicious. I don’t understand what am I doing wrong?

following the results of our tel. Conversation, I'm sending you to Iziumkin's bread, but for the sourdough - it's better not to find Vicki! Will always save a failing student

look Selyansky bread with sourdough in a bread maker
and French sourdough bread in a bread maker

[y.tatiana.7]

for sourdough - better than Vicki to find! Will always save a failing student

Overpraise ...
y.tatiana.7, the scales are urgently needed. Simple and not expensive, but accurate - now there are many of them. And the leaven will be very grateful, and will delight with such breads ...

Overpraise ...

Is that you ?! Never!
It is impossible to overestimate you!
How I remember myself at the beginning of the journey
Only you did not let "move out"

And my hubby made a dear taco-o-o-e! I lit the oven, and the leaven stood there, well, it was boiled ... Now I'll start all over again.