"Eternal" leaven

Nope, nothing helped my leaven, died so died, threw it out today
But yesterday I put the starter culture in MKZ and it flooded, I'm in shock, everything is done according to science, and it grows, and bubbles, and the smell is sour at first, and now yeast. While I dwell on it, and as I deal with it and my kitchen is filled with wild yeast, I will return to "eternal".

What a pity

Arka, well, nothing, I will first multiply bacteria in my kitchen, and then I will return to the "eternal" leaven and bake everything
In addition, the MKZ seems to have gone, while I have something to play with

In addition, the MKZ seems to have gone, while I have something to play with

Yeah! Apparently MKZ - the young lady is jealous, so she has worn out your "eternal"
Apparently she loves you. Successful breads to you!

Arka, no, just the "eternal" didn't like me right away, I tried to start it 2 times and nothing worked, and the MKZ started it so that more bacteria would fly in the air, I thought the "eternal" would catch them, but the trick failed, and the MKZ has taken root.I will wait until she gains strength and how nepeka

And for some reason, on the third day, mosses and lichens began to grow in sourdough ... Someone should answer me why? Am I doing something wrong, or is it such flour ???

I think that the problem is either in the dishes (change it and put the starter to cook again) or insufficient air access.

And for some reason, on the third day, mosses and lichens began to grow in sourdough ... Someone should answer me why? Am I doing something wrong, or is it such flour ???

this suggests that the bacteria that have multiplied are not the ones we need. That is, the symbiosis of lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast we needed did not happen and pathogenic flora developed in the leaven
It is possible that mold spores were present in the flour or in the air, maybe someone in the family got sick at this time ... in general, throw it out - and start on a new moon with new strength and inspiration.

In general, it's sad of course - here you jump around for three days - and it's all down the drain. But do not be discouraged, everything will turn out in the next. time!

rinishek, why on a new moon ??

So EVERYTHING grows well on the new moon! Well, there will be help for the leaven

Arka has already answered, in general, but I will add that I have just checked - the leaven grown for the young moon is much stronger and more aromatic than the leaven grown during the waning moon.
Moreover, the young moon gives the impression that everything works out by itself, like clockwork.

Thank you.
It remains only to calculate the moon)

[Leonela]

Leonela, in LS ask Tanya-Dachnitsa - she told me so well

and on the 3rd day I had mold ........

made from rye flour.

threw it away.

Today I'll try to put a new one.

[Now I have a question:]

Dear specialists!
This is the first time I am trying to make a leaven, because I have been enjoying the bread maker for less than a week. Beginning with the eternal. After 3 days - one bubble. But alive. It's obviously cold in the apartment. In my district of Moscow, they save on heat during the day and the temperature in the apartment drops to + 17-18. Obviously it was hard for her. I had to pour 1/4 tsp yeast. and a little sugar. The process has begun. Including "pure" yeast-free has not turned out yet. I will wait for spring
Now I have a question: in the instructions for Panasik - 257 there is a rye recipe with 2 grams of yeast. Tell us if there is an algorithm for replacing yeast with sourdough. I mean proportions. Or is it stupid to change yeast for sourdough based on the weight of the flour without steaming for the prescription amount of yeast?
I will be glad to answer, because in the evening I want to put rye.
And yet, in the Panasik recipe it is indicated that you can delay the timer on the rye mode. It is also possible with yeast or sourdough. I really don't want to burn the stove
Thank you all in advance.

[NVP2105]

NVP2105, the standard rye program is for yeast dough. Sourdough needs much more time than according to the program to raise the dough. And what you have grown can hardly be called "eternal leaven". Try to grow semi-finished rye , yeast is added to it at the initial stage for stabilization. If the apartment is cold, try growing in the oven with the light on, it will probably be warmer there.
How to grow starter culture, you here or here

If the apartment is cold, try growing in the oven with the light on, it will probably be warmer there.
How to grow starter culture, you here or here
[/ quote]
ARKA: thanks.

[rinishek]

rinishek, Thank you

Krivoruchkina , I also bloomed on the third day, so I'll put it again, the moon is just growing)

girls beginners!
start with a semi-finished rye and you will be happy))
from the eternal, I also only grew mold
and p / f - grew immediately and without any moons
everything is fine, it works, etc.

Arka, and in the 257 model it seems there is a "yeast-free baking" program, maybe it fits? that would be the instruction to look)

write that the difference between 255 and 257 is a new, more durable coating of the bucket and blades

Arka, and in the 257 model it seems there is a "yeast-free baking" program, maybe it fits? that would be the instruction to look)
[/ quote]

I can scan and send with soap. I've been studying for a week now: the first stove. Panasechka

You can only have a page with a program table, send it in a personal

You can only have a page with a program table, send it in a personal

Sorry, but your soap is not on my profile. Need to add to your friends list?

You can only have a page with a program table, send it in a personal

I downloaded the instruction in the net, really - only the coated bucket and ex.
then believe in online shopping

[here]

I can scan and send with soap.

The issue was resolved thanks to Lena.
There is no need to scan and send, I have the same programs.
Your opinion on automatic baking sourdough rye I have already expressed
But! The "manual method" does not cause any difficulties:
knead in HP, in the same distance as required, then bake in HP.
I also met a semi-automatic method of baking wheat-rye bread with sourdough at Izuminka (certain stages of kneading are done manually), but for the stability of the result, a little yeast is still added. Take a look here
Even if the recipe does not suit you, you can use and adapt the idea and technology for yourself And then also transfer your experience to all of us

Dear starters, help me figure it out too
I got myself an eternal leaven (rye). 100 + 100. She fed her for 3 days - she just added 100 ml of water and flour once a day. It bubbled slightly, but did not grow, it was liquid. It smelled like dough. Then, after reading the forum, I began to do this: I took 50 g of sourdough, added 50 g of flour and water each. And so on for another 5 days. During these 5 days, it doubled in two hours, when it fell - I don't know, sometimes it didn't. All in such beautiful big bubbles. In general, I decided to bake bread. In the evening I took 50 g of hungry sourdough, and fed it with 50 g of wheat (!) Flour and water. It quickly doubled in 2 hours. After about 13 hours, I added 100 g of millet to the jar. flour and water. It doubled again, and then I began to bake wheat bread. I have a Panas 257. I kneaded it, it seems like a normal bun, 2 strokes. When the baking time came (that is, 3 hours after kneading), the dough practically did not fit, I turned off the oven. It all stood for an hour. Doesn't fit. She pulled out the bucket, covered it with a film and on the battery. There the dough stood for another 2 hours, about 2 times came up, maybe a little less. I put it on baking. The bread came out low, rather dense, although large bubbles (about the size of a pea) are evenly scattered over the crumb, and sourish.
Today I baked bread according to the same recipe, but pressed with yeast. It is 2 times higher than the starter culture, if not more. Please help me figure out what I was doing wrong

..... Took in the evening 50 g of hungry sourdough, and fed it with 50 g of wheat (!) Flour and water. It quickly doubled in 2 hours.

well, here, as I understand it, it was necessary to knead

After about 13 hours, I added 100 g of millet to the jar. flour and water. It doubled again, and then I began to bake wheat bread. I have a Panas 257. I kneaded it, it seems like a normal bun, 2 rounds. When the baking time came (i.e., 3 hours after kneading), the dough practically did not fit, I turned off the oven. It all stood for an hour. Doesn't fit. She pulled out a bucket, closed it with a film and on a battery. There the dough stood for another 2 hours, about 2 times came up, maybe a little less. I put it on baking. The bread came out low, rather dense, although large bubbles (about the size of a pea) are evenly scattered over the crumb, and sourish.

Why re-feed the leaven you want to mix?
and initially there was no need to feed for 5 days
both the leaven and the dough have stood, hence the acid
nothing, learn

and this is my old version

robin, acid in your bread because the dough is overcooked. You read Temki about sourdough bread, its baking differs from baking yeast bread, for example, it does not need to be bathed as much as yeast bread, it just started coming up with you and you kneaded it. And it will take longer. And the dough itself should be more "liquid" because the amount of flour should be less than in yeast. And you can feed the sourdough as much as you like (for example, bringing it to the amount you need), the main thing is to start the dough at its peak, when it has doubled.

robin, acid in your bread because the dough is overcooked. You read Temki about sourdough bread, its baking is different from baking yeast bread, for example, it does not need to be bathed as much as yeast bread, it just started to come up with you and you kneaded it. And it will take longer. And the dough itself should be more "liquid" because the amount of flour should be less than in yeast. And you can feed the sourdough as much as you like (for example, bringing it to the amount you need), the main thing is to start the dough at its peak, when it has doubled.

Ie. even if it is ordinary wheat bread, it does not need 2 strokes, as if it were baked with yeast?
Baked here Borodinsky. I will not give the recipe, I will only say that 150 g of rye sourdough, 240 g of rye flour, 100 g of millet. flour. Kneading, 2 hours of proofing in HP, then pulled out the bucket and put it on the battery for another three hours. I would not say that the bread came up 2 times. 1.5 maybe. But it was by nightfall, I set it to bake. I couldn’t resist, I tried it an hour after baking - I didn’t like it. And the next day I ate half a loaf. I could not tear myself away:.
And also such a question - how to make the holes small and large? And then I have big ones, and Borodino, in my opinion, should be dense.

[robin]

robin, in fact, it is the acid that contributes to the fine holes in the crumb
But to cut rye bread and eat an hour after baking, this is ah-ah-ah! And unhealthy, and the bread is not ready yet! It is good for him to mature for another day, well, give him at least 3 hours for this.
As for the raising of the dough, if your starter culture is young, then do not expect it to be quick right away, at first it will raise it by 1.5-1.8 times.
Good loaves to you!

robin, I don’t do any stirring on sourdough bread at all, I kneaded it, let it stand for 10-15 minutes, mixed the butter and into the mold for proofing, as soon as it rose twice, into the oven. The sourdough raises the dough more slowly, and if you also do it like this, it can take a total of 8-10 hours and of course it will become sour.
About small holes, I always get bread with a lot of small holes, how I knead (by the way, I do it with pens) I wrote above and I bake it in the oven.
And indeed, maybe your sourdough is still too young, so it is difficult for it to crush the bread, try it in the dough, at first, add a little yeast.

I got myself an Eternal rye. Two weeks already for my starter. No problem from the start. Fits perfectly. I baked rye bread on it (with the addition of yeast), I decided to bake Diet (this is Panas 257 wheat bread with whole grain 1: 1) .... it turned out very tasty with yeast. I decided to add sourdough there and the taste became different (the sourdough is rye). I reduced the yeast by half, it went perfectly.
So I decided to transfer part of the leaven to whole grain. 30g of whole grain and 30g of water spilled into 30g of sourdough. She stood for about 6 hours, started to bubble up, and then she died. The day has passed, it has already begun to exfoliate. It's a pity for the microbics (((now I think, maybe it's worth starting to translate in half with rye? Three days like this, and then one whole grain?

[here]

A day has passed, it has already begun to exfoliate. It's a pity for microbics (((now I think, maybe it's worth starting to translate in half with rye? Three days like this, and then one whole grain?

Would you like to have yourself a sourdough with whole grain flour?
See here

[What was done with this leaven? Did anything come out of it?]

Good evening, dear starters.
I have been living with leaven for about a month. I started the first leaven (eternal) after reading 100: 100. Well, then I began to figure it out along the way. My first rye breads were not very beautiful, but tasty and aromatic, and with good holes. Since I figured out about the storage of sourdoughs on the go, then I kept them in the refrigerator, then I didn't, then I didn't feed them, but somehow they gave me delicious bread.
And three days ago, I sort of adjusted everything with feeding and storage, the bread by smell and appearance turned out to be like a store bread. There is no sourdough smell in sight.

I put in a new eternal leaven starter yesterday, and it smells like peas. I read in some topic that someone already had it.
What was done with this leaven? Did anything come out of it?
Now I really want to do everything according to the rules so that we live happily ever after with leaven.

Natalia 1108If you made pure wheat bread on one sourdough, please share your experience. I also knead with my hands and bake in the oven, but I still can't work with wheat.

And here is my bread on one sourdough, pure rye, by hand and in the oven.




Z. Y. Who decides to start the leaven or not: the day after tomorrow the growing moon will end, or rather tomorrow.

Natalia 1108, If you made pure wheat bread with one sourdough, please share your experience. I also knead with my hands and bake in the oven, but I still can't work with wheat.
I will share with pleasure, I hope my experience will help you.
I have an eternal leaven on rye flour. But I bake bread on 1st grade wheat flour. And I don't add yeast at all. My starter culture is kept at room temperature in the amount of 1-2 tablespoons. On the eve of baking day, I feed all the available starters 50/50. The next morning I throw out some of it, and feed the rest 100/100 and put it to the battery. As a rule, after 3-4 hours, it doubles, or even more. Then I take all the leaven (leaving only about 0.5-1 tablespoons), spread it with a glass of water at room temperature and beat with a whisk. In a separate cup I mix 3 cups of flour + 2 teaspoons of salt (I have sea salt) + 2 tablespoons of sugar (I also did it with honey, but then I dilute the honey in a glass of water, and I already add sourdough to the bread), I also like to add sourdough to bread coriander, caraway seeds, sometimes I also crumble prunes finely. I knead the dough, because the rye sourdough is very sticky and you can't fix it by adding flour. I leave it for 15 minutes, then I add 3-4 tablespoons of vegetable oil, mix it in, form a shape and immediately send it to a baking dish. I have a gas stove, so I immediately start to warm it up and put the mold with the dough, covered with food film (holes need to be made in it for the dough to breathe), put it in the stove window.After about an hour and a half (maybe less, it all depends on the strength of the leaven), the dough begins to rise. As soon as it has risen twice, I send it to the oven. The first 15 minutes at a higher temperature, and then 40-45 minutes at a lower temperature. And that's all, the bread is ready.
What beautiful bread you have, you can't take your eyes off, write a recipe.

[here]

Would you like to have yourself a sourdough with whole grain flour?
See here

Thanks for the link. I'll try again to translate my own, if it doesn't work, then I'll start from scratch with a whole grain one.

I put the leaven ... of course it's hard to find a very warm place in my apartment .. I hope she will be comfortable on the battery)))

I put the leaven ... of course it's hard to find a very warm place in my apartment .. I hope she will be comfortable on the battery)))

If the battery itself is hot and not warm, bacteria will not like it. Indeed, at hot temperatures they die.
Then it's better near the battery, above, below, but not on the battery itself. Optimum temperature up to 30^aboutFROM

[Natalia 1108]

Natalia 1108

The recipe is difficult to reproduce, since I was just starting to bake myself, and did not write everything down step by step, I took recipes for pure rye breads from this site as a basis. And this one: 🔗 Well, something like this:

For 1 part of ripe (at the peak of the rise) rye dough, 1 part (by weight) of rye flour and warm water about 0.5. For example 300: 300: 150. First, I add water to a minimum. if very little, I add, though it is more difficult to knead. I leave it to stand for 15 minutes, then add salt (you can add water that you did not take here, but in my opinion you did so.) I knead again. If you bake in the form, then you can not be afraid of excess water. At the very end I add butter all at once, but pour it along the edge of the future kolobok, so the dough sticks less to the walls. I focus on the thickness of the dough: it is not fluid, it breaks off the walls when kneading, but badly, it sticks very strongly to the bottom and to a wooden spoon. Probably not very clear, I just focus on my own feelings, establish contact with the test.
I grease the form with oil and, sparing no flour, sprinkle it. I put the dough there, so as not to damage the flour layer, with wet hands I level the roof, under the film, and put it in the refrigerator for about 12 hours.
I take it out of the refrigerator and warm it up at room temperature, about 3 hours. For all the time the dough rises, but not always 2 times. I once stopped, holes appeared in the roof, after that such porosity in the section did not work.
I sprinkle the roof with flour and cut it with culinary scissors. Then, like everyone else: oven for 230-250 on the bottom of a baking sheet with hot water. The first 15 minutes I still spray from the spray bottle, then I bake for an hour at about 180 (very approximately, since my oven is very old)
I determine the readiness by the color of the crust, and poke it with a toothpick.
Then be sure to let it rest for 10 hours. Do not cut before! Spoil the crumb.

Phew! As it turns out to be difficult to reproduce everything from memory, you must immediately write down what I am doing.
If anyone needs this information, I'm glad.

I have already understood for myself that it is very important to bake on well-fermented leaven and good flour. I changed the old oskolnicheskaya flour to nastya, immediately the dough to the touch when kneading is different. I didn't like the result. I wanted to drive to a specialty store, but here it is frosty! And I have a small child, there is no one to leave with, you cannot drag him to the store in the cold. And so you want malt and all sorts of bells and whistles for baking

Recipe owners, if coincided with someone, sorry! I do not claim authorship.

Z. Y.Natalia 1108... Now I re-read your Wheat recipe, and they are so similar

If the battery itself is hot, not warm, then bacteria will not like it. Indeed, at hot temperatures they die.
Then it's better near the battery, above, below, but not on the battery itself. Optimum temperature up to 30^aboutFROM

I have a screen on my battery .. I hope everything will be fine

Well, I'm confused again!
When I read, everything seems to be clear, but when I do, it feels like it’s wrong.
Develop my doubts: after the third feeding of the starter, the output should be 600g of starter culture. Or was it necessary to throw out a part?

Crust, and it is, the recipes are actually very similar. I also sometimes put it in the refrigerator for a long proofing.
In general, you need to try and everything will work out.

I just stirred the leaven and fed it !! made a mistake ... interfered with everything with an ordinary spoon ... and only then remembered that everything had to be done with a wooden one ...
What to do now?? everything is lost?

Stir the wooden one again, and everything will return
And can someone calm down, 600gr on the 3rd day is this normal?

And can someone calm down, 600gr on the 3rd day is this normal?

Well, in theory, it will turn out so much if you do not throw out a single gram))) I felt sorry for the flour, why spend so much if there is nowhere to put the resulting amount. Baked from 285 grams for 3 days and therefore brought up to 300 grams.
You now have to bake-bake and bake

I just stirred the leaven and fed it !! made a mistake ... interfered with everything with an ordinary spoon ... and only then remembered that everything had to be done with a wooden one ...
What to do now?? everything is lost?

Oh, and I always interfere with the usual (((And she lives with me and flourishes. I switch to a wooden

[here]

Girls! Don't panic! There will be no harm from short-term contact with metal. The main thing is not to leave meth in the leaven. spoon / fork for a long time and do not store the starter in met. dishes
As for the use of excess leaven, there is a separate topic. here
I don't throw anything away, but I put everything into action, all the more so as I think that the leaven is a living organism, it somehow inspires to show imagination

eh .. my leaven made me live long
or rather, she seems to be still breathing, that is, bubbles appear, but in volume it has not increased from the second day .. so I think what to do with it?

And I have another problem in the "eternal" sourdough: while I feed it with rye flour, everything is fine, as soon as I want to switch to wheat flour, I add coarse flour or wheat flour, however, it is worth it and does not think to bubble. Sometimes you want white sourdough bread without yeast and rye flour.

The next day, after the third feeding, my sourdough just burst into battle and I baked this kind of bread:
according to this recipe:

There is very little left, it turns out that the sourdough is losing weight while it "eats", the leftovers of the sourdough went into the "duty" pancakes, which turned out to be magnificent as never before, so that nothing from 600g was thrown away at the exit.

Many thanks to Luca, Viki and Arke for this starter.