"Eternal" leaven

For my starter cultures, I used commercially available flour, including wheat, rye, buckwheat and others. This is my topic Lactic acid sourdough by Admin, where I describe my experiences in growing sourdoughs.

And it's not about the flour at all. This is also confirmed by my experiments on growing buckwheat and rice starter cultures.
Matters are in the very principle of growing, how she behaves, intervene in the process in time, feel her behavior, and so on ...

The sourdough must be grown, brought to condition, maturity and not in a hurry to quickly put the immature sourdough into action. The sourdough takes about 5-7 days to mature and is considered ready for when the sourdough smell changes from the smelly smell of rotten hay to the pleasant taste of a green apple.

Move on to proper starter culture, see the normal topics where the pros share their experiences: French modern sourdough (liquid)

And at the base https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...69908.0 I bake bread Wheat bread on old dough dough (oven)

The sourdough must be grown, brought to condition, maturity and not in a hurry to quickly put the immature sourdough into action. The sourdough ripens for about 5-7 days, and is considered ready for, when the sourdough smell changes and changes from the smelly smell of rotten hay to the pleasant taste of green apple.

Dear Admin, thank you. I will certainly check it out. I have been trying to grow this leaven for over a month now. But its rise occurs very, very slowly (say, 14 hours). So I wonder how on this forum almost everyone has everything so easily, and the leaven just rushes through the top of the can, and for me it is like a lazy snail.

[Alex-M]

Alex-M,

start a new

This topic is closed?
Hey ???? Can't re-preserve dry starter culture? Worth fed 12 hours. according to the recommendations of Elena Zheleznyak and sleeps ..




Girls, are you here?

[Valeria]

Valeria, continue to feed 1 time a day, as if you are growing a new one. In the worst case, it worked for me on the 3rd day.

[Valeria]

Valeria, continue to feed 1 time a day, as if you are growing a new one. In the worst case, it worked for me on the 3rd day.

Thank you, I started a new one: it bubbled a little and died down. This morning is a day: I will try, according to your advice, Nata, to feed 3 days. Then I will unsubscribe

Good time of the day !!!
Guys ... guard ... I never thought that such parsley could happen to me. Already on sourdough, it would seem, the dog ate (for almost five years I have been fiddling with it) And then there was some kind of misfortune.
The old sourdough lived and ate in the fulfilled mode. I had it on c / c wheat flour 100% hydration. Then the flour ran out and I bought a new bag. She usually fed her and put them in the refrigerator. When the time came for the next loaf, it turned out that the leaven had died.
I set it up to grow in a new way, from the same flour. It looked like this - a day later there was a cap of appetizing bubbles in the jar, that is, the process was going right. But one had only to feed it a second time and put it on to grow further, as it was already obvious that the leaven had died - no bubbles appeared. And after 12 hours, the water generally bounced off.
I decided to try another flour, just wheat flour - the same picture, then rye flour was next in line - and, as you guessed, the result was repeated one to one ...
It's already shaking me straight.
As a temporary option, I drove out the teahouse, baked bread so as not to sit without it. But I don't want a teahouse, it's like an ambulance for me. I want a regular one. By the way, I tried it on raisins too - without any changes ... Total today is take # 7. Rye flour - after a day - an excellent increase in volume ... I fed it as expected and now I looked into the jar ... there is just an inanimate mass, no hints that it wanders.
I don't know what to do anymore.
Dear Collective Intelligence - help !!! Maybe my eyes are already blurry ....

Is it warm at home?

Is it warm at home?

It's warm at home, we have an auto-house. I tried different dishes and glass jars and plastic containers. All down the drain. Now I poured out another portion of the dead workpiece.
By the way, an acquaintance also complained that the leaven had died, and the new one didn't want to grow. I've already broken my head WHAT is happening.

[Natasha]

Natasha, much depends on flour too. You buy one brand of flour, everything seems to be fine, and suddenly you come across a batch with a surprise. I have never had such a bread crumbled with sourdough, and even moldy, blackened quickly, now this happens sometimes. I have now settled on hop sourdough.

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, I understand that flour of the same brand may have surprises in different batches, but not all flour that is found in the house is not suitable for sourdough ...
I am sitting in such a state of shock and do not even know what to do. We can't live without such bread.

[Natasha]

Natasha, really strange that it does not work.

first, think about what else has changed?
- Is the water really good?
- have you changed the detergent for the starter dishes?
second, how long have you been re-breeding the leaven, are you sure you are drawing the right conclusions? Do not breed.

Yes, it practically does not grow until 4-5 days. Almost all sourdoughs behaved this way (I grew a lot of them, in fact, one Calvel sourdough 10 times, no less))). Feed persistently, withstand the temperature. The first explosion with an unpleasant smell, then only the accumulation of bubbles in the thickness with almost no upward movement. Then the moment comes when, after the next feeding, bang! The increase is 2 times, and then incrementally. This is the norm.

J. Hamelman's liquid wheat sourdough (Scarecrow)

- at the initial stage, you should start with fresh rye cz with a bunch of microbes, maybe the old flour is really bad for cultivation in the house. Try diluting with whey for the first time. Literally here we discussed it:Starter cultures - in questions and answers # 2168

She usually fed her and put them in the refrigerator. When the time came for the next loaf, it turned out that the leaven had died.

it's really amazing. Did the old strong leaven die from one feeding? didn't hold out at all? Ask experienced professionals in the subject of sourdough questions why this happens?
maybe there is something killing in this flour, if you haven't changed the water and added chemistry. Can it really be easier to go and buy a completely different flour?

[Natasha]

Natasha, ANGELINA BLACKmore, and you are not sick? Didn't you drink antibiotics? Or someone from home?
My leaven died as soon as I started taking antibiotics.

Girls!!!
I didn't change the water, the water is good.
Flour does not stale at home, I don’t buy a lot
No one is sick at home and we don't take antibiotics.
My dishes have been gelled from laundry soap for many years, I don't use any chemosis.
The leaven immediately in a day increases in volume by two times, with a fluffy cap, and not just small bubbles ... It smells unpleasant, it seems to be normal. And then there are no more movements and the smell of a sour substance appears.
The one that stood in the refrigerator and died, generally stank of acetone.
That is, I want to say that I did not change anything either in the conditions or in the process of growing.
But alas ...
Today I put it again ...

Does the leaven have something to breathe?
Mine somehow smelled of acetone, the closed former had nothing to breathe ..
And now I bake bread with liquid yeast. It is not for me to feed sourdoughs. I bake bread once a week or even less. We don't eat a lot of bread, so it's more convenient for me with liquid yeast.

[Natasha]

Today I put it again ...

Natasha, try changing the flour to another. Perhaps flour with additives, with the addition of last year's, sprouted, and antibiotics (and other things) against infection in general. Maybe it was sterilized incorrectly, or it is not clear what, everything is possible in our time of various additives

And sometimes, perfect cleanliness harms both our health and what we do, cleaning products can harm and destroy the microflora around us, including beneficial bacteria both inside us and around us. This has already been proven))

One more time to control myself write a scheme for growing a starter culture, and go strictly along it, perhaps "something is blurred and missed." In short, check yourself on the notes

Fresh sourdough usually smells like rotten hay. But gradually, as dressing and ripening, after 4-5 days the smell of a ripe green apple should appear.

when she took out Chuchelkina, or rather the Hamelmanovskaya liquid, she sat with me motionless for 7 days, and only then began to live. She slept longer than Chuchelka's.
I honestly waited and she survived. I was ready to throw it out - but since Schochelka ordered to wait and endure - I waited
And with eternal leavens I got used to that they are strong, so that such one immediately throws away hooves at once - for me it's nonsense. All the same, flour is to blame, whatever one may say. There were no problems before her change.
I wouldn't trust such flour already. Maybe a professional would have done it, but I'm not sure if I would have bothered with her.

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, I would understand if I put it out of one flour ... so I have many different ones and does not grow on any.
About perfect cleanliness - it's not sterile at home, it's a fact.
About the algorithm - I read everything from scratch - I do everything as expected.
About the breath of the leaven - it has lived under the screw cap all these years and did not ask for additional air. I wandered slowly in the refrigerator for 3-4 days.

I have a bad relationship with pure wheat. I make all starters with rye central locking system.
And to keep warm at least 27 degrees. Probably you only think it's warm. It must be cold. And knead hot.

[Tatyana]

Probably you only think it's warm.

Tatyana, even smiled)) It is impossible to live with individual heating and to keep the house cold. In the room where there is a jar with the cultured ferment 27-28 * С.

[Natasha]

Natasha, I argue, if everything is as usual with you, then you need to turn on the heat so that the microbes heat up sooner. Try to knead with a temperature of 30 degrees at once and wait, as Nata-Chuchelka recommends. What can ALL flour in the house lack? Heat or good water. There are certainly microbes in some flour, water is also good. Surely the water is good, sure?
I am afraid to advise, I have little experience. Quite subjectively for myself, I do: the thinner the leaven: the higher the temperature for it. Liquid starters fall asleep for a long time without good heating. I like thick ones more, it turns out easier for me.
But in that flour that killed the eternal leaven, maybe there is some disgusting thing. It may not work at all.

[Natasha]

Natasha, maybe you will start a kefir, and then you will lead it as an eternal one. It even became interesting how so.

My leaven died as soon as I started taking antibiotics.

oh how

I argue, if everything is as usual with you, then you need to turn on the heat so that the microbes get hotter sooner.

It turned out ON THE WAY ... they were hot. Yesterday's take is well behaved, right. And all that - I left it on the kitchen table, where it is much cooler than where I put it before.
And yes ... after all, those doubles behaved as they behaved in the heat - in a day there was a terrible foam pad, the savages apparently ate everything and exhausted themselves, unable to digest the new feeding))
And today's version looked very good - the mass was slightly liquefied, on the surface there are large tunnels, evenly located. After feeding, I see that small bubbles began to appear willingly, that is, the "food" is absorbed correctly.
It's called - "Semyon Semyonich!"

So ... in the course of the play, the leaven has been living for three days today. I am so glad. And she calmly grows to herself, in a cold kitchen. The process is measured, calm, as it should be ... Well, that's what made me stand in a too warm room.

has been living for three days already.

TTT. Let it please)))

[Lelka]

TTT. Let it please)))

Lelka, yes, I myself am extremely happy. Only now I walk around and wonder at myself ... how it was possible to get so goofy ... After all, I knew perfectly well that excessive heat is also not a friend to leaven. And in-those, na-those, be-those.
Okay, let's live in Solomon - everything goes away, and it goes ... Of course, it's a pity for the products.
I will assume that these are production costs.

I, too, then try to bring my colder. And then for seven days I was asleep without movement without a twinge of conscience. I thought that my hands were crooked.
I would like to take this opportunity to ask you. Why is it eternal and not a tea house? Can you tell us how the starter cultures are different?
It's lazy for me to breed a bunch of them, but if it's worth making different ones, I'll strain. I want to try the best
Why, if you have an eternal rye and, for example, Hamelman's wheat, do not immediately stop at them? Why kefir, tea and others. Is the game worth the candle?

Well, I opened the container now, and from there the heavenly aroma of apples ... Mmm ...
And the leaven literally breathes, puffs. It's such a botanist's happiness ...

Why is it eternal and not a tea house?

For me personally, "eternal" is the most pretentious (although I had such a case, there is still more trust and love for her) I like raisin and periodically feed my sourdough with raisin water, though not bald, for some reason. The teahouse seems to me to be delicate, weak, although it grows reactively.
And try, for the sake of sports interest, you can different, in order to have an idea of ​​how it behaves, whether it is convenient for you to look after her. And as a result, you will understand what kind of starter you want to keep.
For me - the easier the care, the better for me.

[My]

I deduced Kalvelevskaya, now I made Khamelmanovskaya. Rather, it seems to me that she is Hamelmanovskaya. I read that Hamelman has magic bread. My Hamelmanovskaya I would not say that straight from my Calvelevskaya in bread is very different.
I ordered Levita from the store, read how special she is. Well, I got it. It really smells nicer raw than mine. But dances with tambourines are full of care. And in bread ... I don't see such a need for a complex Levite.
But I fully admit that it is I who breed them THAT, that they are all for the same taste.

Well, that's why I keep the most simple one. And I bake coarse bread and noble white pastries on it. and Easter cakes and various buns. there is even a sourdough cake.
BUT ... in fairness, I want to say that I have an interest in GROWING, and even different ones. But I don’t do it anymore, because I don’t see the need for these experiments.

and my interest is strictly edible. I would like to choose and learn how to make the most delicious. But, if they are all more or less the same, then, of course, the easiest to care for.
While my experiments cause yes, bewilderment. Why take a Levite out for a month ... if I have it like a three-day Calvellian. But that is with me, not with Calvel and the Italians

My friend Levito Madre grew, used, but she returned to the eternal. True, she only bakes simple bread, black and white, and does not do any frills.



Well, my damsel smells sweet and lives. Tomorrow I have - hurray !!! - bread day.

And try, for the sake of sports interest, you can different, in order to have an idea of ​​which one behaves,

it seems to me that the same will always behave differently, what kind of comparison with others?

My dishes have been gelled from laundry soap for many years

The question is off topic, but can you share the recipe? I have been my only household for a long time soap, but gel would be more convenient)

Off-topic question, but can you share the recipe? I have been my only household for a long time. soap, but gel would be more convenient)

In PM.

I don't even know what kind of account I am, whose sourdough dies after the first feeding. At the same time, on the first day by the end of the day, 100gr hg.flour and 100 gr. water rises in 0.7 jar under the very lid, once even got out. And after the first feeding, plus (100g of flour + 100ml of water) stops rising. Flour from one pack, water from one bottle at the same temperature. Naturally, there is some reason for this, otherwise there would not be so many coincidences. If anyone did not understand, I mean breeding sourdough. Can anyone understand the reason?

[kolsasha]

kolsasha, Alexander, it is difficult to say for sure, since the reasons may be different. Perhaps she did not have enough air, while growing her starter culture, I noticed how badly she reacted to this with a decrease in activity, I just returned the linseed napkin and the starter culture returned to normal. Perhaps you quickly pass the first stage to a sharp peak, after which a decline occurs, followed by a minimal increase in mass in the next day. My starter culture increased by only 1 cm after the peak. In the following days, the starter culture gained the correct balance and accordingly gave the usual increase between feedings. In pictures with a detailed explanation of the growth of the starter culture: J. Hamelman's liquid wheat sourdough # 30 and further down the page, however, a sourdough on wheat flour and with recommendations for a different recipe, but in general, everything is similar, after the peak there is weak activity, followed by the growth and formation of a mature sourdough.
Yes, from the third day I transferred part of the leaven and fed it in a new and clean jar, that is, feeding and further ripening of the sourdough is always in a clean jar.
From the fourth day I left only 60 g, then 35 g until the tenth day. After that, I transferred the starter culture to a convenient format for feeding, since it was already completely ready.

Ilona, ​​thanks! I'll try again, or maybe more than once I'm stubborn won't calm down until it works.
One more question about Shugurovskaya flour. bought here 🔗
They were sent in simple 5 kg bags, and somewhere I read that they ship in paper bags and I saw in the pictures.

transferred to a convenient feeding format

Please share what is the feeding format? I feed once a day, less than 1 g of sourdough and 20 g of flour and water, and bake once every 5 days. You have to throw away a lot. And the taste of wheat bread still does not suit. I thought to overfeed it in wheat, someone advises to keep it on tsz, someone on sun.

I feed once a day, less than 1 g of sourdough and 20 g each of flour and water, and I bake once every 5 days. You have to throw away a lot.

When I rarely bake, I feed the starter once a week or even only twice a month. Usually, before baking, I take out the sourdough from the refrigerator, let it warm up well, take a couple of tablespoons with a large slide to the dough, add flour and liquid to the leftover sourdough (about 1/3 of the total amount) to the thickness of a good store sour cream, mix it slightly and immediately put it in the refrigerator. You don't have to look for a week, but the leaven does not sleep well in the cold, it slowly ripens, and then, in two or three hours in the warmth, it finally wakes up and is absolutely ready to go.
Throwing out food is not our method! :-)
I lead the sourdough on wheat baking flour, premium or 1st grade, it used to be rye, then I overfed it to wheat flour. I bake any bread, including pure rye bread, using this wheat leaven.
And one more nuance - instead of water, I use whey, both for sourdough and for bread, that is, I initially get sourdough at the ICD.

[Alexander]

I'll try again, or maybe I'm stubborn more than once I won't calm down until I succeed.

good mood, good luck.
If you will be using the old sourdough container, it might be better to sterilize it by first washing it with baking soda and rinsing well under running water.
Instead of a linen napkin, you can easily use a lid with holes or a film, having made the required number of holes in it.
In the first days, do not rush to feed, maintain the specified time. By day 5, the sourdough aroma will become much better and apple notes will appear. To me, this aroma reminds of youthful wine, that is, when there is still no real mature aroma.And I continue to lead the leaven further. From day 6, feeding twice a day until the day when the starter culture is already quite active and about 3 feeding a day, mine was ready on day 10. From that day on, the sourdough was kept in accordance with environmental conditions.
In general, everything depends on the quality of the flour used and on the conditions for growing the sourdough. It is possible that you will have it ready in less time and, accordingly, the dates will be different, just focus on the state of your leaven.

One more question about Shugurovskaya flour.

Alexander, I am not familiar with this brand of flour. You are probably better off asking your question in the profile thread: Wheat flour in Russia, types, varieties, properties.

Please share what is the feeding format? I feed once a day, less than 1 g of sourdough and 20 g each of flour and water, and I bake once every 5 days. You have to throw away a lot. And the taste of wheat bread still does not suit. I thought to overfeed it in wheat, someone advises to keep it on tsz, someone on sun.

Hope, you probably keep the starter in the refrigerator? I lead the leaven at room temperature, something like this: A detailed process for using the eternal leaven that lasts in the room. #one, sometimes more, depending on the ambient temperature.
It is difficult to say something, since everyone has different tastes and, perhaps, for you, the option with whole grain flour will be preferable to all others. The taste may be affected by the very small amount of the original starter culture. I once tried to reduce it to 3 g and the aroma of the finished sourdough was weaker than at 5 g, so I don't leave less than 5 g. Perhaps the recipe also affects the taste. I baked Hamelman's "Light Rye Bread", although in fact it is a simple wheat bread with rye sourdough. Despite the fact that everyone liked it in general, but the parents liked it very much, and my husband said that, they say, another wheat bread, that is, very similar to the one I bake in a bread maker without sourdough and with yeast.

P.S. you can easily contact me on "you" if this form of communication is convenient for you.

Good evening everyone!
Please tell me how much flour and water to add the last time (when growing). I just started to raise her, today I have the third feeding. And Luka seems to need to add 100 g / ml each (she does not elaborate, but it seems that exactly 100), and Admin clearly says that 200 g / ml. So how much is more correct to put?

Day 3
... it grows a lot in size and it all consists of such a foam cap. We feed her one last time. And again with warmth.

3rd stage:

now add 200 g of rye flour and 200 ml of warm water and the mixture is allowed to stand for another 24 hours.

[Anna Adamovna]

Anna AdamovnaBy what method they began to grow, continue on that. If from Admin, do it strictly according to the recipe.

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, she is "Eternal", right from this thread (in which we are talking now). Apparently, they are talking about the same thing. Description only Hatches just - "we feed her for the last time" and that's it, without specifying how much, like implying (probably) that the same as in the previous two times, that is, 100 each. Admin, in continuation of the topic, gives his own description of the process, but already with 200 grams for the last feeding (all this can be seen here, in the topic, on the very first page of this topic). Therefore, I had doubts.

"we feed her for the last time"

is meant as always fed., i.e. 100 g.

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, thank you very much for the promptness, otherwise I'll feed her right now))

Good luck!

Thank you! But most likely she's a kirdyk. Her smell is terrible. Not like anything, just nasty and that's it. I would understand a sour smell, even a sharply sour smell of mash, they may be unpleasant to someone, but at least they are about something edible. But here ... I can't even find a comparison (including indecent) what it looks like.

And yet, when I fed her now (for the third time), she was a light pinkish hue, relatively gray fresh flour. I don't even understand, or is it okay?

But the general abnormality is also indicated by the fact that most likely I was not able to provide her with the required degree (although I tried very hard). Like it should have been very warm, about 30 °. Probably, the processes that should have started at such a degree did not go.

I don't know, or is this incomprehensible, unpleasant smell the norm? But I don't see much bubbling with growth, it is the "foam" that is absent in it. Although, maybe, it is still too early to grow and grow straight for her, but the blistering more vigorous probably should already be. And she's just evenly softened everything and everything.