"Eternal" leaven

[RYE]

Hello friends.

trying to make eternal leaven.
day 5.

RYE

half the volume - whole-grain rye flour and peeled baking flour (I add the last on the 4th and 5th day) and half the volume - water, that is, slightly less flour by weight;
added a spoonful of sour cream a couple of times;
fed daily, once a day;
stirred a couple of times a day;
the house is warm enough;
rises on the 4th and 5th days - by about 15%, about 2 times growth - I only dream for now;
on the 5th day (today) a mild fermentation smell (yeast?) appeared;
to taste - very sour (should it be?);
there are a lot of bubbles, some volume in the upper part of the "foam".

photo, 5th day, 5 hours after feeding - 🔗
photo, 5th day, 5 hours after feeding - 🔗

Yesterday I baked rye-spelled bread with chopped sprouted wheat on it.
suggested that she was still not in the best shape and added 1 tsp dry industrial yeast. parted for 2 hours and 10 minutes. in the "baking" mode, baked for 50 minutes, left in the turned off oven then for 20 minutes.
it turned out ok, but the upper part fell through and when I took out the bread, a little crumb remained on the knife.
today - a little sticky crumb .. I write off on chopped sprouted wheat (it was painfully sticky after cutting) and on a small error in calculating the liquid.

cost more time to bake?
can the failure be attributed to a weak leaven?
WHEAT

half the volume - whole grain wheat and wheat flour of the highest grade (the last one I add on the 4th and 5th day) and half the volume - water, that is, slightly less flour in weight;
added a spoonful of sour cream a couple of times;
fed daily, once a day;
stirred a couple of times a day;
the house is warm enough;
Does NOT rise on the 5th day (well, maybe 5%);
on the 5th day (today) the smell is mildly sour, but there is no fermentation smell;
to taste - very sour (should it be?);
there are bubbles, but they are not large.

photo, 5th day, 5 hours after feeding - 🔗
photo, 5th day, 5 hours after feeding - 🔗
I ask you to comment on the experienced and recommend what you can / need to do in order to get a leaven that will rise, as it should, 2 times, to start baking on it and stop feeding it every day (since the volume is growing and you don't want to transfer products) by moving it to the refrigerator.
the fact that it tastes very sour, what does this mean? and what to do with it?

I really want to bake a wheat bun with honey today on my wheat sourdough.
it's real?

Thank you.

Hello everyone. I just registered specifically in order to also talk about leaven), of course, I did not read all the messages, but I understood from what I read that many are faced with approximately the same problems, so I would like to recommend the site of Gabriel and Tatiana Zhdanov 🔗, I made sourdough and bread according to their recipe. on their website you can subscribe to free video mailings, where the process of making the sourdough is explained in detail and clearly. here is one of the photos of freshly baked bread 🔗.
By the way, I also kept my first sourdough at room temperature. in the end I had to throw it out, as it was covered with mold. the second I left to grow in the kitchen with the door closed and the oven on. the leaven itself was left on the table. the process has started. and now, when I make a dough (shutter) and when I leave the bread to rise in the form, I turn on the oven and create a temperature in the kitchen favorable for the growth of bread).
I will be glad if it was useful to someone.

[weight]

Alar, I have no idea how to grow sour cream sourdough ... If you grew according to a certain recipe, it makes sense to go with questions on the same topic to the author of the recipe. I grew my leaven only on water and flour on equal terms weight shares.
Another option, in order not to torment yourself with long experiments, throw a cry among your fellow countrymen, take a strong leaven from someone. I am sure they will share with you!

[weight]

Alar, I have no idea how to grow sour cream sourdough ... If you grew according to a certain recipe, it makes sense to go with questions on the same topic to the author of the recipe. I grew my leaven only on water and flour on equal terms weight shares.
Another option, in order not to torment yourself with long experiments, throw a cry among your fellow countrymen, take a strong leaven from someone. I am sure they will share with you!

it has already started.
Thank you.

Please tell me what's wrong with the leaven? On Sunday morning I put it on, on Monday morning I fed it, until that moment it was already with bubbles, and it increased a little, mixed it, covered it, left for work. The day was hot. By 2 o'clock in the afternoon she returned, she almost ran away from a liter container. I transferred it to a larger container. And the process stopped completely. On Wednesday morning, just a couple of bubbles on the surface, fed. Still quiet0 Maybe the moment was missed and on day 2 it was active and it was necessary to start it up and put it in the refrigerator, and not grow it further? And what about her now? continue to feed, maybe it will still grow or have everything disappeared and put a new one? The smell on day 2 was pleasantly sour, today is day 3 and the smell is more sour, but not disgusting. But there is no active bubbling and growth at all. Today it has become cooler, but it is standing near the stove, there is periodically cooking something, so it's warm there.

Bosco, don't be afraid, the process is going fine. There is now a war between "ours" with pathogenic ones. That's how ours will win, immediately bubble up again

Evening 3 days, everything is still quiet. the smell is sour. Will "ours" win for sure? I already insulated them, as my mother covered the dough for cakes with a blanket, silence. I hoped that it would be possible to bake bread today. BUT if "ours" win, I still don't know what first bread to put, the leaven will seem to be rather weak, I don't want to add yeast. Please advise which one is better to start with?

My old sourdough didn’t move for 3 days.
If yours does not settle down by the due date, take a small part of it and feed it again.

Regarding the strength of the leaven: as soon as the leaven can raise itself 2-3 times, so immediately it will be able to raise the bread dough, do not worry.

For sourdough recipes, see this section

Arka, thanks. That is, it turns out that if she wanted to run away from me for 2 days, then at that moment she was already ready for baking? and for storage?

... if she wanted to run away from me for 2 days, then at that moment she was already ready for baking? and for storage?

No. Look what happens: the first day we mixed the ingredients for fermentation. On the second day, everything fermented violently with us (it already wanted to run away), now everyone who settled there (bacteria) begins their struggle for existence. They need a couple of days. These couple of days the balance of "good - bad" will change here and there. Our task is to wait for ours to win. You need help to the front - regular feeding. GOOD LUCK TO YOU!

Thank you, so I will continue to feed, today is 4 days. On the surface, at least 4-5 bubbles. I was already thinking about putting a new one, the family is already demanding bread on sourdough :) And how long will it take as much as possible to "win"? I read that 5-6 days and that's it. So something went wrong.

I have eternal leaven, rye. She's already a couple of weeks old.
When feeding, it increases by 2-3 times.
Dough also normally raises 2 times.

But, when kneading the dough - it does not rise at all .. I am trying to bake whole wheat wheat on it for the second time and it does not work. Once baked on a timer, the proofing came out about 4.5 hours - after completion I cut it - not a single bubble inside .. So, today, it did not rise in 10 hours at all.

Previously, the rye Pyok rose quite a bit on it, but in general the result was satisfied.
Are there any tricks in the kneading or the sequence of the ingredients?
I add olive oil at the end of the batch.
I add honey, and there is propolis in it .. can propolis inhibit the ferment microorganisms?

Thank you.

... today is day 4.
I read that 5-6 days and that's it. So something went wrong.

It's like that. We have already grown up here and have seen everything. It was such that on the fifth - sixth not a bubble, but overnight it ran away
The main thing is patience. Everything should be fine!
Our flour is different and fermentation is different. We are waiting ...

I add honey, and there is propolis in it .. can propolis inhibit the ferment microorganisms?

Well, propolis is generally a noble antiseptic!
He wins such microorganisms that not every antibiotic will be taken.
And you could not add it once and see how the dough behaves? Otherwise, we may never know what is really going on there.

Well, propolis is generally a noble antiseptic!
He wins such microorganisms that not every antibiotic will be taken.
And you could not add it once and see how the dough behaves? Otherwise, we may never know what is really going on there.

doubts were already several times ..
it will be necessary to conduct an experiment.

are there any peculiarities in the interaction of sourdough with whole grain flour (wheat and rye)?

an experiment will have to be done.

It would not be bad, otherwise they intrigued

are there any peculiarities in the interaction of sourdough with whole grain flour (wheat and rye)?

There is! All processes are faster. When fed with whole grain flour, she is faster again hungry. When added to the dough, it is fermented faster and the proofing is shorter.

It would not be bad, otherwise they intrigued
There is! All processes are faster. When fed with whole grain flour, she is faster again hungry. When added to the dough, it is fermented faster and the proofing is shorter.

I have almost all baked goods with whole grain - 50% -80%.
although, for sourdough about 12-14 days (with whole grain flour), the dough does not rise well .., although it does raise the dough, it still takes 3-5-6 hours, despite the fact that I try to observe the required heat regime.
Now, now, the dough (whole grain rye + whole wheat wheat + spelled flour) stood for about 5 hours, it rose by a maximum of 30% ..
I can no longer wait, I set it to bake.

and before that I tried to make 2 times whole wheat wheat, and did not rise at all in 4 (first time) and 12 hours (second time).

although the 2nd time there was honey without propolis.

Now, now, the dough (whole grain rye + whole wheat wheat + spelled flour) stood for about 5 hours, it rose by a maximum of 30% ..

Something is wrong here ... Can I have the whole recipe? How much leaven, how much flour, and what else is there? What goes into the dough, what goes into the dough?
For me, a very young 100% whole grain lifted less than three hours and she is a little older - less than two.

It seems that in my leaven the victory was not for “ours”. On Sunday morning I put it on, on the second day I wanted to run away, poured it into a container more, and everything calmed down. today is day 5, not a single bubble, the smell is very sour, the taste is too. the last attempt to revive her, she took 2 tablespoons of what was fed and fed, if nothing comes to life, then you have to throw everything away. And try to grow another leaven.

It seems that in my leaven the victory was not for "ours". On Sunday morning I put it on, on the second day I wanted to run away, poured it into a container more, and on that everything was quiet. today is day 5, not a single bubble, the smell is very sour, the taste is too. the last attempt to revive her, she took 2 tablespoons of what was fed and fed, if nothing comes to life, then you have to throw everything away. And try to grow another leaven.

I had a similar situation.
I put it in a warm place, up to 40 degrees, within 2 days the result manifested itself - it came to life, a bubble.

if there is no warm place, then you can use a gas stove, so that the fire would give off to a frying pan / brick or something else only on the edge, so that it does not heat up strongly. and, accordingly, put the sourdough on top of this pan / brick. special attention - temperature control. but, if everything is rebuilt, then you can leave for a long time and not participate in this process anymore.
another option is a 5 liter plastic jar from under water with a cut off part / saucepan / bowl, into which we pour hot water and immerse a jar of sourdough in it. periodically change / add warm water.

[question 1:]

Something is wrong here ... Can I have the whole recipe? How much leaven, how much flour, and what else is there? What goes into the dough, what goes into the dough?
For me, a very young 100% whole grain lifted less than three hours and she is a little older - less than two.

thanks for watching.

1.welding:
malt - 35 gr.
flax seed - 35 gr.
spices (caraway, caryander, anise, fennel) - 2 tbsp. l. (about 7 gr.)
black cumin - 2 tsp (about 3 gr.)
everything is filled with boiling water - 120 gr.

2.dough, which rose a little less than 2 times (the process took about 4-5 hours):
whole grain wheat flour - 200 gr.
water - 200 gr.

3.Grated flax seeds (flaxseed porridge) - 50 gr.
4. spelled flour - 50 gr.
5. Peeled rye flour - 50 gr.
6. whole grain rye flour - 180 gr.
7.water - 155 gr.
8.salt - 2 tsp.
9. honey - 2 tbsp. l.

I expected the dough to rise - 5 hours in a warm place. rose by about 1/3.
baking mode - 1:20.

tried to maintain the flour / water ratio = 610 gr. / 475 g.

came out - a bit small, sticky, in some places - a non-rogue.

Photo - 🔗

question 1: what could be corrected to get the best result?

question 2: How does the bread behave if you overexpose the dough and it starts to fall off after rising 2 times?

question 3: is it possible to take standard programs from a recipe book and bake sourdough bread with them by simply recalculating the flour / liquid ratio?

question 4: what patterns / rules exist when replacing water with milk / kefir? Do you need to increase the volume of milk or keep the same as recommended for water? Does replacing part of the water with milk affect the raising of the starter dough?

Thank you.

[alar]

alar, as it seems to me, the proportion of "dough" or sourdough is too large
I have determined the following proportions for myself: the weight of the finished / active sourdough added to the dough is equal to the weight of the rest of the flour in the dough.

It seems that in my leaven the victory was not for "ours". On Sunday morning I put it on, on the second day I wanted to run away, poured it into a container more, and on that everything was quiet. today is day 5, not a single bubble, the smell is very sour, the taste is too. the last attempt to revive her, she took 2 tablespoons of what was fed and fed, if nothing comes to life, then you have to throw everything away. And try to grow another leaven.

in no case! do not throw anything away! feed on, otherwise Vicki will come and give you some atatashek!
victory will be ours!

[alar]

alar, as it seems to me, the proportion of "dough" or sourdough is too large
I have determined the following proportions for myself: the weight of the finished / active sourdough added to the dough is equal to the weight of the rest of the flour in the dough.

Thank you.

if I have dough - 400 gr.,

and flour:
spelled flour - 50 gr.
peeled rye flour - 50 gr.
whole grain rye flour - 180 gr.
+
ground flax seeds (flax porridge) - 50 gr.
+
malt - 35 gr.
-------------------------------------------------------------
total: 365 gr. - the figure is close enough to 400 gr. dough, taking into account also flax seed and spices (total additionally - about 45 gr.)

or to take into account only the added flour in the proposed ratio and not take into account malt and ground flax seeds?

Personally, I only take into account flour.
Another important thing is the moment of laying sourdough in the dough - only at the peak, - as a rule, the rise is more than 2 times

Personally, I only take into account flour.
Another important thing is the moment of laying sourdough in the dough - only at the peak, - as a rule, the rise is more than 2 times

Thank you.
but what happens if the leaven has "stood still" and a decline has begun?

Thank you.
but what happens if the leaven has "stood still" and a decline has begun?

sourdough peroxides, accumulating acetic acid

I don’t like her smell very much ... well, too sour .. but I haven't thrown it away yet. Feed in the same way? Once a day? Flour and water in equal proportions? It seems to me that this morning, before running to work, I fed only flour. But I didn't add water now, right? Tomorrow I'll feed you normally. Is it really possible to revive something alive from an immovable, very sour-smelling substance? really looking forward to it.

Arka, thank you very much for your answers. Maybe you know about kefir sourdough? I asked in the appropriate thread until they answered. How much to take initially kefir, so that the sourdough is enough for the first bread and put it in the refrigerator for storage. Several times I reread the branches about kefir and lactic acid numbers, I did not see

On kefir, write Admin, she will answer.
About the eternal - you have no idea what smell my leaven had until ours won -
She stank! It is difficult to call it a smell. But nothing, ours won!
Be patient, feed on schedule, as in the recipe for the first post. You can stir occasionally

sourdough peroxides, accumulating acetic acid

Thank you.
someone noted that they extinguish excess acidity with soda.
could you comment on this?

there are still 2 unanswered questions of mine:

Question 3: Is it possible to take standard programs from a recipe book and bake sourdough bread with them, simply by recalculating the flour / liquid ratio?

Question 4: What patterns / rules exist when replacing water with milk / kefir? Do you need to increase the volume of milk or keep the same as recommended for water? Does replacing part of the water with milk affect the raising of the starter dough?

would be extremely grateful if you could recommend something.

I do not use soda, I cannot comment.
Water can be safely replaced with other liquids: milk, whey, liquid kefir - in the same volume.
As for the automatic programs, personally I can't bake the starter like that, there are always different rise times, you need to watch.

I do not use soda, I cannot comment.
Water can be safely replaced with other liquids: milk, whey, liquid kefir - in the same volume.
As for the automatic programs, personally I can't bake the starter like that, there are always different rise times, you need to watch.

Thank you.
oops .. I mean standard recipes, not programs.
that is, I wanted to ask - is it possible to use the standard recipes from the book, simply counting the amount of water / flour, adding sourdough, not yeast? in such a way that the same ratio of water / flour would be obtained, as suggested in standard recipes, but together with the leaven (sourdough).

pavazhanaya ARKA, you help me a lot in mastering, thank you.

however, as long as the sourdough bread comes out of my drenny.
today until 5 am I was busy .. - the result is not very good, did not rise.
here's what I did:

1.dough on eternal leaven:
whole grain rye 150 gr.
water 150 gr.
rose slightly less than 2 times.
2.flour:
whole grain rye 200 gr.
wheat premium 200 gr.
spelled 50 gr.
3.water 190 gr. + 40 g (added during kneading, because it was a very tight dough, the Panasonic could hardly turn it)
4.salt 2 tsp.
5. honey 2 tbsp. l.
6. olive oil 2 tbsp. l.
7. sprouted wheat, chopped with a combine harvester 50 gr.
8. kelp, dried 4 tbsp. l.

the bun turned out to be normal.
defrosted 6.5 hours, rose by 20-25% maximum (could no longer wait, it was 4 am, threw it into the oven). maintained the temperature of the dough bucket - 25-35 degrees.
Bake 50 minutes.

you can eat, but the height of the rise is upsetting ..
what could be corrected?

Hello!
Please tell me how you can fix my mistakes!
I have been baking bread in KhP (Panasonic 2500) with yeast for almost a year now, and now I wanted to bake it with "eternal" rye sourdough. Found this recipe: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=145168.0
and this:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=102164.0

The sourdough works well; I weigh all the ingredients in grams per email. scales, I help to stir the dough with a spatula, I level it - there is no kolobok, as in the photographs. The dough fits, increases in volume, but !!! I check before baking - a well-raised dough, and at the end of baking, a collapsed roof, a settled loaf with a damp crumb Help bake bread, I'll soon be completely desperate!

[jjasmika]

jjasmikaif you are sure of the density of the dough (although I do not exclude this reason, and, perhaps, you need to add a little more flour), then the second possible reason is the duration of the proofing.

In the recipe you are referring to, the proofing time is 4 hours. For example, for my starter, this is a lot. I bake bread with eternal leaven and leave it for 40-45 minutes. And this despite the fact that for bread from 500 grams of flour, I use only 120 grams of refreshed sourdough. A high-quality starter culture raises rye dough much faster than yeast.

You say you drop by before baking - do it very carefully! And when the bread has risen one and a half to two times - start baking. Do not wait for it to rise as much as possible - in this case, it will certainly fall.

[jjasmika]

jjasmikaif you are sure of the density of the dough (although I do not exclude this reason, and, perhaps, you need to add a little more flour), then the second possible reason is the duration of the proofing.

In the recipe you are referring to, the proofing time is 4 hours. For example, for my starter, this is a lot. I bake bread with eternal leaven and leave it for 40-45 minutes. And this despite the fact that for bread from 500 grams of flour, I use only 120 grams of refreshed sourdough. A high-quality starter culture raises rye dough much faster than yeast.

You say you drop by before baking - do it very carefully! And when the bread has risen one and a half to two times - start baking. Do not wait for it to rise as much as possible - in this case, it will certainly fall.

Thank you so much! I really hope that next time I will definitely succeed

And if you put less than 350 grams of sourdough according to this recipe, can the bread turn out normally?

[jjasmika,]

jjasmika, I didn't bake bread according to that recipe, it's better to ask the author, in the same topic.
And I do it in a sponge way. That is, the refreshed sourdough is mixed with half the flour from the recipe and most of the liquid. It is fermented to the maximum yield, and then I knead the dough from the rest of the ingredients.
Maybe you will try to make sponge bread? Its result is always more stable, because the leaven actually goes through three stages of refreshing (feeding) - refreshing the leaven, kneading the dough, kneading the dough. Such a consistent refreshing is considered optimal and the leaven is gaining its maximum lifting power exactly by the time of the last proofing of the bread.
And when you have such a bread, start experimenting with express recipes in one tab.

Thank you so much! I really hope that next time I will definitely succeed

And if you put less than 350 grams of sourdough according to this recipe, can the bread turn out normally?

Of course, you can adjust the amount of added starter culture downward. The recipe contains the maximum, which is not recommended to be exceeded!

According to your description, I can assume that the dough is simply resting, reaching its maximum volume, and it does not have any potential for growth during baking. Watch the dough while proving. Raise 2 times - turn on baking. A common mistake is incorrect determination of the test volume. Measure first with water in order to understand and see clearly how much it is in the bucket - a 2-fold increase.

Thank you.
oops .. I mean standard recipes, not programs.
that is, I wanted to ask - is it possible to use the standard recipes from the book, simply counting the amount of water / flour, adding sourdough, not yeast? in such a way that you get the same water / flour ratio as suggested in standard recipes

Of course, that's exactly what everyone does!

today until 5 am I was busy .. - the result is not very good, did not rise.
here's what I did:

1.dough on eternal leaven:
whole grain rye 150 gr.
water 150 gr.
rose slightly less than 2 times.
...
defrosted 6.5 hours, rose by 20-25% maximum (no longer could wait, it was 4 am, threw it into the oven). maintained the temperature of the dough bucket - 25-35 degrees.
Bake 50 minutes.

you can eat, but the height of the rise is upsetting ..
what could be corrected?

It is strange that the leaven does not raise itself. Therefore, the rest of the dough does not rise.
Let's first bring the leaven to life. Take 2 tablespoons of sourdough and feed it 1 time a day at the same time in a proportion by weight of 1 part leaven / 1 part water / 1 part flour, and so on until it starts to rise at least 2 times.
As soon as the sourdough becomes active, feed it for another day in this way: after feeding, wait for the maximum rise, take 1-2 tablespoons of the sourdough, feed them, wait again for the rise and again take part of the sourdough for feeding. During the day, it will turn out to go through at least 2-3 stages of feeding / renewing the starter culture. You will see how the leaven grows stronger every day.
Just mind not adding anything other than water and flour when feeding!

My sourdough feed is still going on. It all began on the 18th! It will be 3 weeks soon. Its condition has changed insignificantly, from above there are small rare bubbles, a little whitish, but this is on the very surface, below is silence. However, it does not rise. Still calm. Can it really still survive and raise itself ?! or start over? I don’t know, maybe it’s the flour, but I found rye flour in the stores of only one company, there is a peeled and seeded one from the same manufacturer Stolichnaya Mill, made in Belarus. KM made sourdough on it. It rose one and a half times, silence from above, and bubbled inside, But the bread on it turned out to be very low, and very dense. At the same time, after removing her to rest in the refrigerator, all movement in her has quieted down, for others, she actively GROWS in the refrigerator and runs away. I never dreamed of that. I also have a package of Czech peeled rye. But to be honest, if things go the same way, then it will all go to the sourdough, but I would like to try it in bread. And in general, tell me what to do with the eternal, otherwise it turns out that it is eternal not in terms of use, but in terms of withdrawal :) And the family really wants delicious bread with sourdough.

I don't think we should keep it in the refrigerator now. Let her grow stronger. The temperature should ideally be 28-30 degrees.
I am also not very happy with my leaven lately. I recently ran out of wallpaper flour, on which I turned her on and led her all the time. Only the peeled one remained, and nowhere I can buy wallpaper. And on peeled flour the sourdough became much weaker. I don’t put it in the refrigerator at all, and it still rises more slowly. But while I bake on it, it's quite satisfactory ... But I feel that if I don't get some wallpaper flour in the near future, it will be very bad. While I am saving myself with previously dried pieces of my spring sourdough, I add one piece at a time when refreshing.
Don't spare your torment. Sourdough is the main thing. There will be no leaven, and no bread. I leavened the leaven on flour, which is three times more expensive than the one on which I bake bread.

[Bosco]

And in general, tell me what to do with the eternal, otherwise it turns out that it is eternal not in terms of use, but in terms of withdrawal :) And the family really wants delicious bread with sourdough.

Bosco, make it thicker. In the most arrogant way. Do you know how it is? This is when you take a part of the leaven, add the same amount of water, stir, add the same part of the flour, mix and add flour until you get a lump that does not creep, but still stands in a lump. Take the dishes not wide and transparent to see what's inside, especially from below.
The sourdough must first disperse along the bottom, then go up. The first bubbles should be at the bottom, then inside. Above they will not be. The thick ones should be so.
Something yours behaves like a very liquid. The moisture content of the flour may be low.

Hello!

A question from a beginner.

I decided to start with leaven. I studied the recipes on the first page in this thread, kneaded and now I'm at a loss.
Flour - peeled rye from "Kudesnitsa", when mixing 100 grams of flour and 100 grams of water (electronic scales), I don't even stir the flour - some of it remains dry. To bring the mixture to the consistency of sour cream (thick) water took as much as 200 grams !!!
Is my flour so dry (or is it by nature so?) Or do you still need to mix the same VOLUME, and not WEIGHT ??

PS I've been baking bread in the oven with yeast for a year now, if that.

... when mixing 100 grams of flour and 100 grams of water (electronic scales), I don't even stir the flour - some of it remains dry. To bring the mixture to the consistency of sour cream (thick) water took as much as 200 grams !!!

Oh and wow!
I can't get thick sour cream either. It turns out such a plump lump. The next day it gets thinner. But so that twice as much flour was spent ...
As far as I understand, you brought it to the desired consistency. Let's try to focus on 100 g flour and consistency. Everything should work out. You have experience in baking and you know how the dough should look afterwards, which means that when baking you will need to add water, focusing on the density of the dough. While growing, we'll see. And be sure to write what and how, okay?
GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!!

I came to share my misfortune and joy at the same time. * JOKINGLY * As usual, I baked sourdough bread and put the sourdough in the refrigerator, I fed it as usual and warmed it up for an hour. I put it in the refrigerator and the next day let me think I'll see how she is (I'm worried about her), usually bubbles are visible at the bottom, then everything is OK. But this time I couldn't see anything, and when I opened it, I didn't find bubbling. : cray: I was scared that my leaven was gone, I thought about flour, this time I used a new one. Today I took it out of the refrigerator and let it warm up, and by the evening I saw my favorite bubbles, and in volume it slightly increased. : yahoo: ALIVE! (y) I really can't say why there was such a lull with her. After all, the process is the same every time. Nothing new.

Viki thank you very much for your support!

I am reporting.

Yesterday, being lost in thought, I put the jar with the "product" in a slightly preheated oven, in the morning in the bustle of getting to work I didn't even remember. The window in the kitchen remained open, but on the street today we have + 11C and cloudy, well, I think everything is gone. Arriving home, I decided to take a look. Well, what can I say, to my surprise the process went quite vividly, the increase in volume was 1.5-1.7 times and so everything went into small bubbles. Stirred, put it back while they had dinner, something was cooked, the kitchen got warmer. I decided that it was time to "feed", and there in the jar there is a noticeable revival of the process and the mass resembles a good thick milkshake (all in small bubbles).
In general, today I decided to follow strictly the recipe and still mixed 100g of flour and 100g of water, it turned out something like plasticine, or a very tight dough, but since the sourdough in the jar became more liquid than it was yesterday, I mixed everything together and left until tomorrow.

P. S.

The investigation showed that yesterday, to create the sourdough, the hand took a pack of flour in 1 kg with the production date - December 2010. Perhaps that is why it all happened with water, today the open pack may have absorbed moisture from the air, therefore there are almost no deviations from the recipe, and of course the concept - thick sour cream is different for everyone.

even P. S.

In the hope that something will work out, please advise any recipe for sourdough bread, the simplest and most intricate for the first time, for a hearth oven. Available ingredients - flour (including 1 grade Uvelka-wheat and rye-Kudesnitsa) there is fermented milled rye malt.

... a noticeable revival of the process in the bank

Hurrah! The process started no matter what

In the hope that something will work out, please advise any recipe for sourdough bread, the simplest and most intricate for the first time, for a hearth oven.

From hope to confidence, we still have a couple of days left. Let's pick it up.
Wheat - rye or rye - wheat?
Do you have a baking stone?

Viki good evening!

There is no stone yet, therefore, on the advice of Bertine, I use an inverted baking sheet, that with regards to bread, both options are interesting, but rye-wheat in the first place. Thank you in advance.

... on the advice of Bertine, I use an inverted baking sheet.

He also advised me - okay. Then I bought floor tiles in Building Materials. Ceramic. Well, then just a stone. So ... you are still "at the beginning of the journey."

.. floor tiles in Building Materials. Ceramic ...

grief from the mind, you know what it is? I'm going to dig through the entire great and terrible Internet in search of the "right" tile! (just kidding).