"Eternal" leaven

Now I have reached the formula: X + 4X + 20X = Y, where Y is the required amount of starter culture + starter for the next one (I adjust the total to a multiple of 25), X is a starter, the first feeding is 2X water + 2X flour, the second is 10X water + 10X flour. The intervals are 12 hours, the sourdough rises just right (it turns out it processes the feeding 1/2/2 in 12 hours, if your sourdough is stronger, you need to increase the proportions (1/3/3, X + 6X + 42X = Y), if weaker - decrease (1/1/1, X + 2X + 6X = Y)). If you need to change the time between feedings, change it in direct proportion.

and I thought that baking bread is a humanities! How badly I was wrong!

I just see you have a lot of sourdough in the jars. After the first feeding, everything can fit in a tablespoon, after the second about 300 ml, it rises to 700-800 ml.

That's a lot, right? I kind of watched who photographed the jars - the same amount was. Therefore, I wondered how you can feed such a quantity of 1/5/5. What to do with it then ... This leaven has been fed 3 or 4 times already, I don't remember exactly. because I was going to oven, but changed my mind and put it in the refrigerator until the weekend.

In the evening the sourdough rose to the hangers of the jar in 3 hours in the microwave. I pulled her back and put her back in the microwave. I slept badly, I was worried that at night the leaven would run away and spread over the MV. But! No! Throughout the night, she also rose to the hanger of the can. This is how she looks

Well, again this is my bread after 2 hours of proofing. He's not even gu-gu.

The dough was the same size. Here is such

I made the dough like this:
- dough from one can (left only for divorce)
- flour c. from. 400 gr.
- curd serum 170 ml.
- salt 5 gr.
- sugar 1 tsp. (sweet whey, from cottage cheese pasta)
- odorless oil 2 tbsp. l.
I made a dough (pictured above), then I laid out the rest of the ingredients and kneaded in the "dough" mode.
Help!

Hello dear bakers! Please help a beginner. After much torment with the leaven, I finally got it.
Wholegrain made sourdough https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=8140.0... On whole wheat flour and pineapple juice. Then podkomka with whole grain wheat flour and water.
From the resulting sourdough, I took 1 tablespoon and fed 0.5 cups of flour and 1/3 cup of water. After 12 hours, I did the same again to strengthen the leaven. As a result, it grows 2 times in 6-7 hours, but it is somehow dense and thick and does not become thinner, there is no light foam.
On the seventh day I put the dough. I got 200 g of sourdough, added 400 g of water and 400 g of whole wheat flour to it. I put it in a warm oven at 36-38C. After 6 hours, she doubled, after another 1 she slept. I waited another 3 hours, since you have written that the dough should stand for 12-17 hours. I got 10. By this time she was asleep and with foam on top, like soap bubbles. I added 400 g of flour and kneaded for 20 minutes, moistened my hands with water. I tried a little sour dough. I left it on for 30 minutes and kneaded it again. She put it in a mold, greased with ghee, and left it on the battery for 2 hours. The dough did not rise much by 1.5 times -2. I baked it for 20 minutes at 250C and then 40 minutes at 180. It turned out to be some kind of wet, very dense and sour bread, as if not wheat, but rye.
Please tell me what my mistakes are.

Please tell me how to insert images here

[How to insert a photo into your message]

Please tell me how to insert images here

How to insert a photo into your message

Here are my photos of leaven and bread
HELP ME PLEASE

So, the bottom line!

Included the second time for kneading without a paddle. Then it came up a little, but the lid was already dry, smeared it a little with water, but it still broke. The bread turned out to be low, finely porous.You can eat, but not what you would like.
Here's my baking story! Tell me what's wrong? I really, really want a yeast-free bread.

[tanycs]

tanycs, it looks like we are here with you alone. Voice in the wilderness

Here are my photos of leaven and bread
HELP ME PLEASE

[tanycs]

tanycs wonderful leaven, wonderful bread. What is the problem?

[tanycs]

tanycsbut isn't whole grain supposed to look like that? Unfortunately, I could not find a grain of grain flour with us, I never baked it, but it looks very appetizing. If it turns out to be wet, adjust the amount of water.
And read pages 58-60 for this topic. You have the same problems as me. I was already given advice, try experimenting too.

Yes, but very sorry. I just really need this bread desperately. I have a baby just with severe allergies and eternal colic. From simple bread she has continuous problems ... So I conjure to bake her normal bread

Yes, but very sorry. I just really need this bread desperately. I have a baby just with severe allergies and eternal colic. She has continuous problems from simple bread ... So I conjure to bake her normal bread

allergies are bad. tanycs you will definitely succeed! Try to make sourdough or hop on malt. I set the wheat to germinate. Then I will report back.

[NatusyaD]

NatusyaD,. I didn't mean it a bit when I said "bake together".

Here are my photos of leaven and bread
HELP ME PLEASE

After 6 hours, she doubled, after another 1 she slept.

If you slept, then you ate everything and began to acidify.

I waited another 3 hours

even stronger peroxide

since you have written that the dough should stand 12-17 hours

everything is very individual, but for me feeding 1/2/2 in 12-17 hours is a rather weak sourdough

Added 400g flour

for 1 kg of peroxidized sourdough 400 g of flour ?, and how much dough, 1400 g? (

I made a sourdough 200 g, added 400 g of water and 400 g of flour to it

)

and left for 2 hours on the battery

Wasn't it hot on the battery? more than 40 degrees below

The dough did not rise much 1.5 times

again, as for me, a lot of leaven is not enough flour and she has nothing to work with

Baked for 20 minutes at 250C and then 40 minutes at 180

I use the methods read here: I check the readiness of the bread by piercing it with a wooden torch (a kebab skewer) and pass it over the upper lip, if moisture is not felt, it is ready. If it is not yet baked, and the roof is already darkening, spray it with water from a spray bottle.

It turned out to be some kind of wet

not baked (a lot of dough)

very dense and sour bread

a lot of peroxidized leaven, a little flour,

as if not wheat, but rye

it's probably because of the acid.
I think I have not written anything new. This is just my opinion. The first thing that came to mind after reading

Hello dear bakers! Please help a beginner. After much torment with the leaven, I finally got it. .............
.......
........ Please tell me what my mistakes are.

[Oh, I'm so glad you answered me! Thank you so much.]

Oh, I'm so glad you answered me! Thank you so much.
for 1 kg of peroxidized sourdough 400 g of flour ?, and how much dough, 1400 g? (
Why 1 kg? I had 200g of sourdough, I added 400g of flour and 400g of water to it and put the dough. After 6 hours, this opaara doubled and after another hour it slept. And after 3 hours I added 400g of flour and kneaded the dough. I probably misunderstood the proportions. How much flour and water do you need to add to 200 g of sourdough to make a dough? And then how much flour should be added to this dough?

McCleod, you write that if the leaven is asleep, it is already sour. And when then do you need to start the dough and dough? It turns out when the leaven has grown 2 times, then it is urgent to put a dough on it? And not wait until it subsides? And it turns out that the dough does not have to wait until it subsides, but add flour and start kneading? And another question about the leaven. I don't have it in the fridge. How often should she be fed at room temperature? Also, how does it grow so immediately to feed or wait until it subsides?

Why 1 kg? I had 200g of sourdough, I added 400g of flour and 400g of water to it and put the dough.

200+400+400=1000

How much flour and water do you need to add to 200 g of sourdough to make a dough?

SOMETHING IN THE PROPORTION OF 1/3/3 OR 1/2/2 you just don’t need to take 200 yeast, take 50

And then how much flour should be added to this dough?

look for example this recipeFluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough

It turns out when the leaven has grown 2 times, then it is urgent to put a dough on it?

as soon as it stopped growing

How often should she be fed at room temperature?

stopped growing - feed. For example, I take 15 g of sourdough in the evening when I bake bread, add 30 g of water and 30 g of flour. In the morning when I go to work I feed 150 water 150 flour. By the evening I have 375 starter cultures - 350 in bread 25 starter.

McCleod, Thank you so much! I understood everything, I will try. Happy Easter to you! And health to all!

McCleod, Thank you so much! I understood everything, I will try. Happy Easter to you! And health to all!

Please seek and find. And you a happy holiday. Health to the baby.

I had 200g of sourdough, I added 400g of flour and 400g of water to it and put the dough. After 6 hours, this opaara doubled and after another hour it slept. And after 3 hours I added 400g of flour and kneaded the dough.

Let me insert your "couple of cents"?
How I put the leaven dough: One - two tbsp. spoons of mature sourdough (this is from 20 to 50 grams), I add 200 grams each. water and flour. When the dough is ripe, I have 400 gr. sourdough. Here I add 400 gr. flour. And 200 gr. water. That is, my proportions - how much sourdough there is so much fresh flour, half the water. Salt to your taste. In my opinion it is 10-12 grams.
I would be glad if it comes in handy.
PS My dough is moist enough. For a mold - great, for a hearth, either reduce the liquid, or you have to get used to it.

Let me insert your "couple of cents"?

We can't wait for your 5 kopecks here. We are trying in every possible way to call you.

One - two tbsp. spoons of mature sourdough (this is from 20 to 50 grams), I add 200 grams each. water and flour. When the dough is ripe, I have 400 gr. sourdough. Here I add 400 gr. flour. And 200 gr. water. That is, my proportions - how much sourdough there is so much fresh flour, half the water. Salt to your taste. In my opinion it is 10-12 grams.

Dough, is this also a mature leaven? What changes when the ratio of leaven / dough changes towards an increase in leaven?

I would be glad if it comes in handy.

Once upon a time it was different.

Common grain that chickens are fed with?
After the second rinsing, should it be left without water?
When you lay them out for drying, won't they grow further?
Grind grain only or whole?

We sell grain for germination on the market - relatively clean. But if you can feed the chickens, then it is not pickled and can be used. Usually, grain is pickled for planting and cannot be eaten. You can try sellers. Again, the grocery stores sell grain for sprouting and online stores. There are many ways to germinate. I wash the grain - very well with plenty of clean water, several times. I fill it with clean water and leave it at room temperature for 12 hours. I usually wash it in the evening, drain it in the morning. I rinse with water a second time, drain the water, and leave the wet grain - without water - in the jar under the lid. I always sprout a liter jar of grains. In the evening (after 12 hours) I wash it again, drain the water. In wheat, sprouts are already visible. Rye - germinates a little later. If you eat sprouted grains, they stop there. But we need malt - they grow it further. Also rinsing after 12 hours. Water is no longer poured - just rinse. Poured and left in water only for the first time. When I unfold it to dry, it is moist and grows further. But a thin layer dries quickly and the sprouts wither. The main thing is to keep away from the light so that it does not turn green
When the grain is dry, the sprouts do not fall off. I melt along with them. Although they are somehow removed for pure malt.

There is a temka - making malt at home

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=110567.0

It's about fermented malt, and it's cooked at a low temperature, and I lazy at room. But the general cooking conditions are interesting to read.

... Dough, is this also a mature leaven?

Of course! Dough - flour, water, yeast and fermented. Sourdough - flour, water and wild yeast and also fermented. Any sponge bread is baked with sourdough without changing the recipe, only we replace the sourdough with sourdough. We only start the dough every time, and the leaven is always at hand.

What changes when the sourdough / dough ratio changes towards an increase in sourdough?

The process of first kneading is shortened, when it is very important not to mix the starter cultures. Then the fermentation time is shortened so that the dough does not "get tired" for the final proofing. But I always try to add enough sourdough to the dough so that it contains no more than half of the flour from the recipe, because I am convinced that fast does not mean good.

[New vitamin]

New vitamin, Viki, Thank you.

Hello McCleod! I wrote on page 61 about my bread. You advised me to try this recipe

look for example this recipeFluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough

I tried it yesterday. It turned out again dense and sour, but no longer wet. I took as you said 15 g of sourdough and added 30 g of water and 30 g of flour. When it rose, I added 150 water and 150 flour. After 5 hours at room temperature, it doubled. I immediately added 550 g of flour and 190 g of water and salt with sugar according to the recipe. I began to knead and the dough immediately turned out to be very steep, after 5 minutes of kneading there was a feeling that if you knead further, there would be a mixture. But I kneaded for another 5 minutes, covered with maarley and put 35C in a warm oven. At this time, I was overcome by strong doubts that I did not knead much and after 30 minutes I kneaded again for 5 minutes and put it back in a warm oven, covered with gauze. I waited 2.5 hours. But for some reason the dough did not rise at all. Strangely, the dough rose so quickly, but the dough did not rise at all. Then I was afraid that it would peroxidize and did the shaping and shaping. I put it in a glass mold, greased with ghee. She stood in a warm oven under gauze and did not want to rise. It stopped again .... When I put it in a preheated oven, I poured boiling water onto the bottom pan. A tray with boiling water at the lowest level, just below the middle of the grate and already on it is a glass tray with round bread. The first 15 minutes at 250C (only I forgot to cover it, as in the recipe), then 40 minutes at 180C. When baking, the bread just started to rise normally and broke, although it was sprinkled with water before and in the process. Maybe it should have been so that he rose only in the oven and it was not necessary to argue for so long. I also always have whole-grain wheat flour, I don't use white flour and rye flour too (a child can't). In the recipe, the proportions of water and flour are given for white flour; for whole grain, they probably should be different. Can you tell me what is the best proportion for whole wheat flour. And what are the features when kneading it, maybe it should be kneaded less than white. And now I read a question about steam and under. Be sure to put a baking sheet with pumice stone on the bottom of the oven, and put the bread in a terracotta pot, or you can do without it. And is a bread maker needed? For example, I have no time to knead, for example, the child is still very small and constantly jerks. In general, it seems to me that I can't do it, because I really need it (because of the child), it's always like this ...
I would be very grateful if you answer.

I also forgot to add that my sourdough is 10 days old and I keep it at room temperature, I feed it 1-2 r per day. Maybe my leaven is still weak .... I was advised on another forum when kneading the dough not to add all the flour to the dough at once, but to divide it into 2 parts. Lifting and feeding, again lifting and again feeding.

[tanycs]

tanycs, maybe the problem is that you took the leaven when it rose by half, but it could still rise. I have at room. pace. about 12 o'clock, I'm at work, so I'm not in control. It is best to start baking when the leaven stops growing and begins to fall off. Out of laziness, I decided to bake this bread in hp. I messed up with the leaven and I got it not 350, but 270. Sugar put 4 spoons. And for the program, French bread 3:50.Before baking, I looked - it seems you can still raise it, turned it off for half an hour. It rose to a full bucket, when I made cuts, it burst like a boiled sausage. When baking, I lifted the hp lid and smeared it on it.
And I also didn't like the bun, too dry. I take 220 grams of water. Sorry for not saying right away. And I mix it in xn 10, mix 20 pause 15 knead, and then for proofing in a plate.

[Arka]

Concerning the c / s flour.
I have whole grain sourdough, but I put premium or rye in my bread. Take a look Forum section on s / s sourdough bread , You can also try Whole grain bread with dried fruits, Arka I advised in the next topic, there is the same as your case with c / s flour. I bake in a small oven. The pan is in the lower position, only the lower heating element is on, pour water directly onto the tray on which the form is standing. HP is a good thing, if not for her, she would still buy bread. As with yeast, if normal HP is perfect for you, if not, you can also get used to it (I'm trying).

As with yeast, if normal HP is perfect for you, if not, you can also get used to it (I'm trying).

What yeast? Do you mean sourdough or yeast? The child does not tolerate yeast well, but the leaven is good. That's why I got confused, because she has problems with digestion and we don't sleep at night. Therefore, I need exactly whole grain and exactly sourdough

Well, at least it will be for you to knead.

[tanycs]

It turned out again dense and sour, but no longer wet. ... After 5 hours at room temperature, it doubled. I immediately added 550 g of flour and 190 g of water and salt with sugar according to the recipe. I began to knead and the dough immediately turned out to be very steep, after 5 minutes of kneading there was a feeling that if you knead further, there would be a mixture. But I kneaded for another 5 minutes, covered with maarley and put 35C in a warm oven. At this time, I was overcome by strong doubts that I did not knead much and after 30 minutes I kneaded again for 5 minutes and put it back in a warm oven, covered with gauze. I waited 2.5 hours. But for some reason the dough did not rise at all. ... Then I was afraid that it would peroxidize and did the shaping and shaping. ... When baking, the bread just started to rise normally and broke, although it was splashed with water before and in the process. Maybe it should have been so that he rose only in the oven and it was not necessary to argue for so long. I also always have whole-grain wheat flour, I don't use white flour and rye flour too (a child can't). In the recipe, the proportions of water and flour are given for white flour; for whole grain, they probably should be different. ... Be sure to put a baking sheet with pumice stone on the bottom of the oven, and put the bread in a terracotta pot, or you can do without it. And is a bread maker needed? For example, I have no time to knead, for example, the child is still very small and constantly jerks. In general, it seems to me that I can't do it, because I really need it (because of the child), it's always like this ...
I would be very grateful if you answer.

Expensive tanycs! I really want everything to work out for you and the child could safely eat bread.
I'll try to say something - maybe it will come in handy

Whole wheat bread is always thicker than white wheat bread. It rises worse. In addition, his taste is significantly sour. It looks more like rye in its appearance, the taste is peculiar (whole grain). Sourdough is very fond of c / w flour and actively processes its useful substances into a more digestible form for us - the more c / w bread and healthier. But the taste never resembles ordinary wheat.

Whole wheat flour takes more water than white wheat flour. And if you make bread according to a simple wheat recipe, you need to add more water. Focus primarily on consistency. The dough should not be dense. It should be soft, pleasant to the touch, so that when you wash it, you can enjoy kneading the workpiece, which, as you believe, will bring you undeniable benefits.
When I made bread in a bread machine according to a book with recipes for c / s bread, I always added 20-30 grams of water to the recipe, because it turned out to be dry and very dense.
"Excess" water will give rise to the dough. Thick dough does not rise very well.Perhaps the poor lifting of your bread was due to this, and not to a lack of leaven.

Kneading the dough from c / z flour - in my opinion - does not need to be as active as from white wheat flour. In the white flour dough, you need to develop gluten well so that you get good holes and the crumb is porous and airy. What is c / z flour - rough - white flour with bran (i.e., ground shell, germ and starchy core). The bran particles and germ will not give the bread stock such lift and porosity as in pure white bread. And meshes or not meshes c / z dough - gluten does not develop to the same extent as in white wheat.
Therefore, I knead the dough by hand until the ingredients are evenly mixed. Now I actively use a mixer with attachments for kneading dough - it helps a lot. First, I mix everything with a spoon until the flour is moistened with water, leave it for 10-20 minutes, then 2-3 minutes with a whip-whip mixer and you're done! It is very good to use this method - kneading without salt and oil, and after 20-30 minutes add salt and oil drop by drop. What gives - yeast (in sourdough) begins to actively absorb the tasty in flour, salt and oil do not interfere with this. Salt - inhibits the development of bacteria, and butter envelops the flour. In this case, the dough proofing time is counted from the last batch!

Bread made from c / z wheat flour behaves more like rye than wheat - it is not recommended to crush it in the process of raising the dough, and it rises poorly. Bad not in the sense that bad. It's just that a large amount of bran particles and germ will not allow the dough to rise to white in any case. The Altai Health flour has proven itself very well. Bread from it is obtained with good porosity - but still it never reaches the size of white, made from the same amount of flour. In the section about ingredients on the Forum, there are articles about flour, bran and much more - https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=132.0

For myself, I deduced the total time: the approach of the dough is 3 hours, after kneading and shaping, the proofing of the bread blank is 2 hours. But it all depends on the volume of the leaven! The more leaven, the less time it takes to rise. You did not write how much dough you had in proof after molding. But the general rule is half or a little more time from the time of raising the dough (first rise to forming)

Bread rose and broke during baking - this usually happens when there is insufficient proofing. And you also had a dense dough - this can also break.

It is not necessary to put a baking sheet with pumice stone on the bottom of the oven, and place the bread in a terracotta pot, you can do without it. You can use any form you like and use our favorite "anti-stick" mixture - mix equal parts flour, vegetable oil and animal fat (eg melted lard) and spread it over the mold. It is advisable to put the bread in a preheated oven, but if you have a glass form, do not risk it and put it in a cold one. Do you need a bread maker? Decide for yourself. I have my shore for the summer, when we have terrible heat and only use the oven suicide ... It is good to stir the dough in it. But if you need it only for kneading, it is better to buy a good kneader or mixer - there are special topics on the Forum about this.

I also want to offer you this option (they will still be accused of flooding, Viki, sorry!):

In my book of recipes from a bread machine, there is such a variant of c / s wheat bread:

400 g / 600 g c / z flour
1 tsp / 2 tsp salt
1 tbsp. l. / 2 st. l. Sahara
1 tbsp. l. / 2 st. l. rast. oils
260 ml. / 360 ml of water
into small / large loaves.

If we translate this recipe into sourdough (100% - half water and flour):

200 g / 350 g c / z starter culture
300 g / 425 g. c / z flour
160 ml / 185 ml water
and the rest according to the usual recipe.

For this dough, I always add 20-30 ml more. water.

Therefore, focusing on the consistency of the dough, we can add more water:
...
180-190 ml / 200-210 ml water

I very rarely add sugar and butter to c / w bread. So add it to your taste or not. If you don't add oil, you can pour a little more water.

We knead the dough. We spread it in a greased form! We are waiting 3-4 hours before getting up. We bake.
That is, what I propose.To begin with, do without shaping. Just try to bake bread.

tanycs! Look at the Forum (if you allow) the section of cereals https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=259.0;
bread-mix https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=248.0

You can still see - 🔗
I baked it, it turns out very well. And you can try to reduce the amount of white and rye flour, replacing it with c / h.

Good luck to you! And the most important thing - with hope and confidence - with e o l u h and t with me !!!!!!!

[Novelty-vitamin, thank you very much, right now I am delving into different recipes and trying to understand the intricacies for whole grain bread. Then I will try to bake 2 breads with your proportions. Add all the flour and water to one at once. And in another, I will try flour and water in 3 passes. Let's see what happens. I understood about salt. I also realized that I just added little water, so the dough was steep and did not rise, but while I was waiting for it to rise, it was peroxide]

200 g / 350 g c / z starter culture
300 g / 425 g. c / z flour
160 ml / 185 ml water
and the rest according to the usual recipe.
Novelty-vitamin, thank you very much, right now I am delving into different recipes and trying to understand the intricacies for whole grain bread. Then I will try to bake 2 breads with your proportions. Add all the flour and water to one at once. And in another, I will try flour and water in 3 passes. Let's see what happens. I understood about salt. I also realized that I just added little water, so the dough was steep and did not rise, but while I was waiting for it to rise, it was peroxide

[tanycs]

tanycs, even for interest, if there is absolutely no time to climb the forum - recipes:

Whole grain bread "Twenty Years" with coriander from Susli
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=146694.0 - you can use only c / z flour. And there is even more water than I suggest you above. Coriander for children can also not be added.

Country bread on rye sourdough in a bread maker from MariV
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=155202.0 - you can safely remove unnecessary components (excuse me, MariV) and keep the dough on the rise for 2-3 hours, on proofing after molding - 1.5 - 2 hours.

Whole grain bread with semola and flaxseed from Susli
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=143997.0 - you can not put semolu, but replace it with c / w flour or white wheat.

Bread "Provence" whole grain with lavender from Nagira
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=144283.0 - you can make it with c / z sourdough and without herbs. It shows kneading in a bread machine - you can knead it with your hands and leave it for 2-3 hours. Look at the rise of Molasses - substitute for sugar or honey.

Arka Whole Grain Bread with Dried Fruit
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=162254.0 - try to maintain a time of 3 hours for the rise of the dough and 2 hours for the proofing (lifting the formed piece)

Omela Whole Grain Sourdough Curls
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=146237.0 - You can use the recipe for dough No. 1. And it is well written on the rise. The oven is like bread. Small - if you leave it as in the recipe, or you can double the size if you take more products twice

Thank you, I just looked through these recipes today

Thank you, I just looked through these recipes today

Tell me, when the leaven grows, it must smell unpleasant at some stage? I have 2 days of whole grain wheat flour + water, it grows well, once I already fed it. It smells very nice, no acid or rot. I read that all sorts of byaks should get divorced, and then die in an acidic environment. Why don't they start?

Tell me, when the leaven grows, it must smell unpleasant at some stage? I have 2 days of whole grain wheat flour + water, it grows well, once I already fed it. Smells very nice, no acid or rot. I read that all sorts of byaks should get divorced, and then die in an acidic environment. Why don't they start?

On the contrary, there should not be an unpleasant smell, if there is something that mustache is gone. (n) And you are OK.

Yeah, thanks for your answer :). And then I read from Chad Robertson: "Lift the crust and check the aroma and taste: there should be a sharply sour taste and a sharp aroma of spicy cheese with mold."
By the way, at the same time I put it on rye flour - so it stands quietly for itself, dries, does not show signs of life. So understand them! :)

Comrades oven professors! Tell me where is what is wrong. Already twice, bread from "eternal leaven" in the "Panasonic SD-207" bread maker, first in the "Main baking" mode, and the second time - in the "French bread" mode does not work. A dog is buried somewhere
In order.

The first sourdough was made according to some recipe, also kept for 3 days. On the 2nd day, she was violently covered with bubbles, on the 3rd and the rest she said "goodbye", starting to dry out.
I threw it into the main bread baking mode.It turned out like almost a lump of clay - almost raw and bitter.

The second leaven was made as it was written at the beginning of this section. The picture is similar - the first two days are identical to the one described, on the third day the leaven said: "Get on yourselves" and went into hibernation, not paying attention to feeding.
On the 5th day, I still threw it into the bread maker with the proportions of the ingredients (https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=164356.0) "Yeast-free fluffy bread". The bread did not rise and was not baked, although 6 hours passed in this mode. Raw again, the taste is raw-bitter-sour, only the crust is more toasty than last time and it tastes better. The crumb is compressed with your fingers and does not return, remaining stuck together, like plasticine.

Professors, what's wrong !?

[volshebnik]

volshebnik I'm certainly not a professor, but it seems to me that your leaven is not ripe and is not ready for baking bread. And why bake bread if the dough does not rise, the result is obvious.

[volshebnik]

volshebnik I'm certainly not a professor, but it seems to me that your leaven is not ripe and is not ready for baking bread. And why bake bread if the dough does not rise, the result is obvious.

Tatiana, so wait until it ripens? She may, in theory, not ripen at all. M?

Tatiana, so wait until it ripens? She may, in theory, not ripen at all. M?

This is such a capricious girl., But if you want a good and strong starter culture, then feed and wait until it gains strength.

She may, in theory, not ripen at all.

Can not. You just have to be patient. My "eternal" matures at least five to six days. To be ready in three days - you need to be very lucky.
The first day - two, while "sour" - actively blows bubbles. It passes to the second stage of fermentation (accumulation of bacterial MC), so it generally ceases to show signs of life. It costs itself quietly. Then, when MC accumulates, yeast bacteria begin to multiply. They feed on the waste products of lactic acid and are responsible for lifting. Here she begins to run urgently.

So the professor arrived in time!

This is such a capricious girl., But if you want a good and strong starter culture, then feed and wait until it gains strength.

Oh, but I didn’t know) I thought, once I didn’t come out in three days, then everything

Can not. You just have to be patient. My "eternal" matures at least five to six days. To be ready in three days - you need to be very lucky.
The first day - two, while "sour" - actively blows bubbles. It passes to the second stage of fermentation (accumulation of bacterial MC), so it generally ceases to show signs of life. It costs itself quietly. Then, when MC accumulates, yeast bacteria begin to multiply. They feed on the waste products of lactic acid and are responsible for lifting. Here she begins to run urgently.

A ! But every day she needs to throw in 100 grams. flour and water, right?

A ! But every day she needs to throw in 100 grams. flour and water, right?

Yes, every day. There will be a lot of it by the end of growing
I, usually on the fourth day ... I will tell you a secret before feeding 100 grams I throw out of the can ... and on the fifth too

Yes, every day. There will be a lot of it by the end of growing
I, usually on the fourth day ... I will tell you a secret before feeding 100 grams I throw out of the can ... and on the fifth too

Vika, thank you. Why throw it away so that there is enough space in the bank? And which you "throw away" is it "thrown" into the "eternal leaven" afterwards?

Why throw it away so that there is enough space in the bank?

Just to have enough space. At the end, it increases in volume. So I just send a part to the trash, otherwise ... we have already passed the picture "got out of the can".