Ivan tea (fermentation of fireweed leaves) - master class

My dear tea makers! Help is needed. My friend, after having tasted the tea I made, also began to make, but according to a different recipe, as I understand it, green, that is, withering, fermentation in a jar for a day, kneading by hand, drying. Everything turned out great, she liked the taste and the result. At the moment, she is trying to make tea using the technology, which is the basis for me: withering, twisting in a meat grinder, fermentation ... Then she reports that as a result of fermentation (6 hours have already passed) the smell remains herbal, there is no honey-fruit smell (compares with the upcoming). What to do? What is the reason? The wilting was good, sufficient, the leaves did not crumble when pressed into a fist, the howling time was significant, more than 18 hours. Will longer fermentation help change the smell? I really look forward to your advice. I ran to the first page, read a link from Lyudochka about the herbal smell, until that option.

The smell in 95% of cases is caused by fermentation conditions. Fermentation duration, temperature, sunlight, oppression and more. Drying, in my opinion, has no effect on the aroma. Drying of raw materials creates conditions for successful fermentation.

Thank you, Oleg, for your response. False alarm, longer fermentation did the trick. In vain she was so worried, the expected smell appeared, everything is already dried and undergoes dry fermentation. The result will be evaluated later.

[Now, more specifically about successful fermentation options:]

All good health!
I don’t know if someone will be interested in my experience, I want to share a technology that does not in all agree with the techniques of making Ivan tea described in the topic. I'll tell you about successful and unsuccessful options with Ivan-tea, perhaps someone will come in handy.
My best Ivan-tea turned out during the fermentation of NOT WEDDED, but raw raw materials. I think this is due to the peculiarities of fermentation, which I carry out in bags with almost no air access. Under such conditions, fermentation is much slower and the over-fermented tea appears only on the 3rd day. There is no peroxide odor or fermentation. When re-fermented, a creamy prune smell appears in the bags, quite even nothing, but in the finished tea it is almost not felt, but the infusion turns out to be very strong and dark.
Now, more specifically about successful fermentation options:
1. The most delicious and aromatic willow leaf tea turned out according to the following technology: the leaves were collected at 6 in the morning in strong dew, then during the day they lay in a bag damp, including a long way home in the heat. In the evening, on the first delivery of raw materials, there was a very strong apple aroma in the package, as if 10 kg of apples were cut and they were dried in the room. In the second delivery, for some reason, there was a more fruity smell, without a pronounced apple. Looking ahead, I will say that it is impossible to preserve the apple aroma - only the fruity one .. So, I brought the raw leaves home, some of the leaves on the road became as if boiled, but it was they who smelled SO STRONG that it is better to sniff while sitting, otherwise the head dizzy ). The rest of the leaves, slightly wrinkled when I stuffed them into my bag, were generally green and moist with a pleasant fruity aroma. I made loose leaf tea and wanted to make it as compact as possible so that it took up a minimum of space. Therefore, I did not sting the leaves, did not "knead the dough", but trimmed them so that they lay parallel to each other in the bag, squeezed them quite a bit in this position - then I put them in the bags.The main crush occurs already in the bag, when I first squeeze the leaves outside the bag so as not to mix them, then release, bleed all the air and twist the most dense sausages with a diameter of about 4-6 cm.At the same time, the leaves are additionally choked. In this form, sausages can be fermented for up to 2 days without losing the aroma and quality of the final drink. After 1 day of fermentation, the sausages can be slightly crushed both inside the bag and outside, since some of the leaves are still green. When I decide that it's time to stop the fermentation, I take out the sausage of leaves from the bag, while part of the leaves is in a "glued" state to each other due to the released juice. The thickest glued leaves can be disassembled - that is, separated from each other for more even drying, but this is not necessary. I trim the leaves so that they are as parallel to each other as possible and cut into pieces of about 0.7-1 cm.Since the leaves themselves are flat and we did not knead them, they remain flat and do not form air cavities during storage, but lie tightly on each other to another - like pieces of paper in a stack, saving space in the bank. Dry chopped pieces of leaves in a frying pan - first over medium heat (I have gas), then gradually reduce. When drying in a skillet, there is no need to dry until victorious, it is enough to fry and dry at least half to stop fermentation. Then the leaves are dried in a natural way - they lie for several days on a plate in a thin layer. The aroma is so strong that a small pinch per cup is enough. Can be brewed several times, medium color.
2. Granulated delicious tea turned out using almost standard technology, only without the drying phase. Since I collected the leaves at the end of a hot day, before the evening dew, I decided that the leaves had withered enough on the plant itself and omitted this phase. Twisted in a meat grinder 1 time, set to ferment overnight. The granules turned out to be so-so - loose, it was just already night and there was no time for the second twist. In the morning I dried it in the oven at 100-120 degrees with a layer of about 1.5 cm .. after an hour I turned off the oven and left the baking sheet to dry in it, and then the tea was dried for another week in the usual way until my next visit. Dried tea has almost no smell, but when brewed it gives a strong aroma, taste and a dark, strong infusion. I did not expect that it would turn out like this the first time, and I was very pleased.
I will talk about other successful experiments with garden plants in the relevant topic, so as not to clog this topic.
Now about failed experiments and spoiled raw materials:
1. Since everyone writes about the importance of withering, I decided to dry the leaves in bags before fermentation. I hadn't been able to wither so well and evenly before, and I was all in anticipation of an excellent result ... So, I gathered dry leaves on a hot afternoon, put them to wither in a thick layer until evening and overnight - periodically stir up the mass. By the morning, the leaves wilted perfectly and I suppressed them - I placed the dough for 10-15 minutes until the juice was well released. Then she rolled the sausage in the bag as usual. In this form, the leaves drove home in the heat all day. At home, the aroma from the sausage was awesome and I calmly left it for fermentation for the whole day. In the evening, the aroma was just as tasty, no creamy shade, and I decided to make a part of the leaf, and the rest - scroll in a meat grinder and fry. Fry-drying also had a delicious fruity smell with apple notes and hints of creamy aroma. Imagine my surprise when the result was a very sour (like currant) and strong drink with almost no aroma, and the tea from the leaves was pale, almost odorless. I fried the granules well, so A) I sinned for overcooking B) because of the withering, the sausages were semi-dry and I think the fermentation went a little differently and probably more intense .. C) the sausages were thicker - up to 10 cm .. I, of course I was upset, but maybe it’s worth a little wait, dry it ... I will never wilt willow tea again !!!) At least during fermentation in bags .. The second half of the raw material did not crumple before going home, but in the evening I also mixed it and left it for 1 day of fermentation. After an unsuccessful batch, I immediately put them in the refrigerator .. although judging by the look of the sausages, the result will be about the same ..

That's all for now). Why don't I do it according to the standard method? Firstly, the oven does not work in my house, and drying the leaves in a frying pan turns out faster than the granules. Secondly, I do not have a heavy enough weight for rolls to make with technology. And thirdly, the rolls will not give even leaf tea, the leaves will be of different sizes and shapes, and this is not very nice and neat.
And fourthly, I completely forgot about the economy) By the volume of raw materials, 1 teaspoon of granules is equal to 2-3 tablespoons of loose tea. Since my tea is very fragrant - 1 spoon per cup is enough .. But for some reason more granules are required for a rich color and aroma. And it turns out that granules are a transfer of raw materials, and leaf tea gives much more fragrant cups), at least according to my methods.

Can you please tell me if I will spoil the tea if I cover it with plastic wrap over a damp cloth?
I put it on to ferment, but it's chilly in the house (at the dacha), and I wrapped the container with leaves in blankets. I'm afraid that the blanket will steal moisture from a wet napkin
But it's also a pity to spoil

Will I spoil the tea if I cover it with plastic wrap over a damp cloth?

No, you won't! I generally put it in a plastic bucket with a plastic lid.

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, thank you very much. I will sleep well now

Yes? And how many hours? Must be a sleepless night. Fry, dry

Good day to all! Dear tea-makers, this year I first became interested in tea made from fireweed leaves, but while the summer was swinging, it was almost over. I tried to collect raw materials and make tea - I liked it very much. But now I think that I have already missed the time and it is probably too late to harvest the leaves of fireweed: it has already completely faded and released fluff. Please tell me in what time frame you can harvest fireweed.
You all describe the resulting teas in such an interesting and tasty way that you want to try something else yourself, stir up something else.

But now I think that I have already missed the time and it is probably too late to harvest the leaves of fireweed: it has already completely faded and released fluff. Please tell me in what time frame you can harvest fireweed.
You all describe the resulting teas in such an interesting and tasty way that you want to try something else yourself, stir up something else.

Tata22, I plan to harvest it before frost, and maybe after it too ... I drive it every week after flowering and the taste is no worse ..

Yes? And how many hours? Must be a sleepless night. Fry, dry

The first time I do it, that's why I say so. No experience, so I sleep well
I am cold and fermentation, I hope, will not go as fast as I would like.
Let's see what happens.
The smell is very strong now. Put it to dry in the oven.
Unfortunately, I have never tried such tea, there is nothing to compare with. And only by verbal descriptions it is very difficult to determine what to do when

With light fermentation, the leaves are fermented until the first signs of a fruity-floral odor (3 - 6 hours). The brewed tea has a mild taste and a delicate but strong aroma.
Medium fermentation tea (10 - 16 hours) is obtained with a pronounced aroma, moderately tart taste with a slight acidity.
Deep fermentation tea (20 - 36 hours) - tart, without sourness, with a relatively light aroma.

Here I read and began to do as it is written.
I fermented for 22 hours. Now drying in the oven, the smell is crazy.
I finally put it into the oven in the morning with the light on, it didn't get warm in any way, it was cold.I stood in the oven for 5 hours, then took it out of the oven (I had to put the buns on the oven) and left it in the room. When poured onto a baking sheet, the container was well warm, although even after the oven it was cold. Like this. And what is it called? When did this fermentation really start?
More questions than answers

Good day to all! Dear tea-makers, this year I first became interested in tea made from fireweed leaves, but while the summer was swinging, it was almost over. I tried to collect raw materials and make tea - I liked it very much. But now I think that I have already missed the time and it’s probably too late to harvest the leaves of fireweed: it has already completely faded and released fluff. Please tell me in what time frame you can harvest fireweed.
..

Ivan-tea autumn https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=430673.0

Since my tea is very fragrant, 1 spoon per cup is enough .. But for some reason more granules are required for a rich color and aroma. And it turns out that granules are a transfer of raw materials, and leaf tea gives much more fragrant cups), at least according to my methods.

Hmm ... Personally, for me personally, it turns out like this: for a thermos 3 and a half standard glasses - OR 4 tablespoons of large leaf (loose) dried leaf OR 6 strollers of dried crystallized washers from cut sausages OR 3.5 teaspoons of granulated tea. Although in the latter case, the tea is very black.

Since my tea is very fragrant, 1 spoon per cup is enough .. But for some reason more granules are required for a rich color and aroma. And it turns out that granules are a transfer of raw materials, and leaf tea gives much more fragrant cups), at least according to my methods.
Hmm ... Personally, for me personally, it turns out like this: for a thermos 3 and a half standard glasses - OR 4 tablespoons of large leaf (loose) dried leaf OR 6 strollers of dried crystallized washers from cut sausages OR 3.5 teaspoons of granulated tea. Although in the latter case, the tea is very black.

Citizen, probably, it depends on the degree of frying and the aroma of the leaves .. everyone gets their own unique tea, although the recipes seem to be the same

For the third year I have been preparing Ivan-tea !!! Around they "infected" their acquaintances. This year we managed to collect raw materials only once with difficulty. At first, the summer was wet, then I could not find it, but when I found a clearing, it turned out that they had already collected it here)))) and this is 40 km from the city !!! This is how this miracle became popular. Last year I also prepared tea from raspberry and currant leaves. It turned out great. I read that strawberry leaves make excellent tea. Need to try!!!

[Annuta]

Annuta, you have not read the topic "Fermented tea from the leaves of garden and wild plants (master class)" yet, from which the forum users are now making teas Strawberries are not limited!

People! Well, we had a summer - all with a delay, but that's the beauty: I still collect ivancha !!! I tear off the fluffy top, and the leaf is excellent - green, elastic. The tea turns out to be just super great - I finally found the perfect recipe for myself (meat grinder, long fermentation, frying for more than 30 minutes) I drink tea a week after preparation and bastard

I finally found the perfect recipe for myself (meat grinder, long fermentation, frying for more than 30 minutes)

This time I did not ferment for very long either, but I will definitely try EXACTLY a long fermentation on occasion. Now I got about: at six in the evening, the leaves were poured, and they were laid in food bags with the removal of air. Then they were left in the night until ten in the morning. Total about 15 hours. After twisting the first time and another under the fabric for three hours, then the second twisting, the granules are just lovely! And drying with frying, 10-15 minutes for 150, then 80-100 until about the beginning of dryness, and at a minimum until sonorous.Hanging now, I'll try today. But this is considered an autumn leaf, rough, underwent strong circumstances before the start of the processes.

Friends, is there anyone from Bashkiria?
The second time we go to visit you in search of a van and leave empty. It's a shame!

Tell me, what does Ivan tea look like now? Is it pushing already?

[sweet_blondy]

sweet_blondy, Zhenya! In different places, ivancha now looks different. In the Moscow region, on a sunny glade, it is already puffing, but the leaf under the fluff is green, in some places there are plants with flowers, in the shade of trees there are green plants, almost exactly like the July ones - dark green, the leaf is elastic. Where the summer was hotter, for sure, the leaf already dries up and turns oak and the seeds are pushed with might and main.

[Tricia]

Tricia, I see. Ideally, I would find someone from Bashkiria in order to understand whether to focus on flowers when searching.
And then my husband has already set up that everything, this year's trips are over. And I still can't calm down - how can I be without fireweed? I'll try to persuade him to take another trip to the search engine)

Zhenya, look for fluff for sure! Now it will be clearly visible.
Even if you know the places - next year you will arrive in the summer for a 100% accurate place with fireweed☺.

next year you will arrive in the summer for a 100% accurate place with fireweed.

your words to God in the ears about Ivan-tea for the second year I have been raving

Where the summer was hotter, for sure, the leaf already dries up and turns oak and the seeds are pushed with might and main.

Linochka gave me a parcel from Togliatti, from the photo you can see that she almost came to the Khan's list in the Urals and the Urals. So the conditions are exactly different, someone can still collect a green leaf in September, but someone is not quite lucky))

someone can still collect a green leaf in September

Today they tore for another tea, even came across flowers, and the leaf is green for now. But I think it won't be long. During the day, the temperature is up to plus 15, and at night it has been zero for several days. We do Ivan-tea mono a little, we like mixes more. This time there will be steamed strawberries-raspberries, willow-tea leaves and flowers, and a little wild apple-tree leaves were picked from the ownerless summer cottage. Here is a piece of willow tea, the rest is already drying.

"" Inhabitants of taiga Buryat villages - uluses from time immemorial drank such tea. It is made from ivan tea.
The collection of leaves is carried out in late autumn, when willow-tea leaves, having dried out, curl up into tubes. The collected dry leaves are sprinkled with fresh tea leaves and put into a Russian oven - not very hot.
Recipe with milk: Tea is boiled in cauldrons (you can use any saucepan), tea is poured into boiling water, when it boils, milk is poured in and allowed to boil, after which the tea is infused for 10-15 minutes and drunk hot, cold. The tea is made with a unique aroma of wood and boiled milk or cream.
Shangi, pancakes, pancakes are served with tea.

For 1 liter of such tea, you need 20-30 g of dried willow tea, 300-400 ml of milk.
Recipe without milk: 1 tablespoon of dried willow tea for 1 glass of boiling water. Let it brew, you can add honey to taste. Tea gives good
color and pleasant aroma.

Ulaazhargyn sai is very beneficial for health. No wonder it was used and continues to be cooked in the Baikal and Transbaikal regions. Such tea is indispensable in the period of exacerbation of seasonal diseases (flu, tonsillitis, SARS), in addition, it has a sedative (calming) effect, is useful for metabolic disorders, for prostatitis, and female diseases. "

[Ecatch]

Ecatch, this is not a tea, but a medicinal herbal decoction. And here we are discussing and making real fermented fireweed tea, which is what this recipe is about.

[Yuri K]

Yuri K, I have not only reprinted, I have been doing-trying-experimenting for the fourth year, a lot, based on what I read, I have tried some myself ...
but you know, if you need to explain each of your actions here, this probably means that I was mistaken in choosing the place where I wanted to share all this, and I will continue to find and try for myself, and who will be interested, they will search yourself.

deleted

On this, I wish everyone, more pleasure and joy from tea-making, on this I bow out with best wishes.

On this, I wish everyone, more pleasure and joy from tea-making, on this I bow out with best wishes.

Well, health to you. Here is an advertisement of friendly forums, we definitely do not need it. Whoever needs it will be found. Good luck

[Yuri K]

Yuri K, if we look at it this way, it’s probably not an advertisement from you: “I found a very interesting document on teas, dating back to 1942.
Mention of Koporsky tea in Soviet Russia in besieged Leningrad. A small booklet was published, based on the works of the professor of the Botanical Institute Palibin: "Tea and coffee from cultivated and wild plants of the Leningrad region"

then Lyudmila also advertised (mentioning this device) this site a few years ago ...
on my part, there was just a desire to save people time (many simply do not have the time / opportunity to search), mentioning a source where there is an opportunity to learn something new.
If you personally consider it this way, it does not mean that the rest will not be entertaining and interesting.

[Ecatch]

I do not want to offend or offend anyone. But I just do not understand why this forum is so negative about any third-party information, and the same for beginners. Ecatch, did not give a direct link to another site, and threw stones at all and sundry! This is not a closed site! A lot and most likely personal, forum participants discuss in their livejournal or something like that, and the forum is created in order to share info! For example, Yuri said about an interesting article that he found, I am incredibly happy for you that in your life there is time to sit and dig on the Internet, in my unfortunately there is no such opportunity. I make tea whenever possible, but the topic is interesting, I like to do it, and not only for the sake of pleasure, I don't want my children to drink shop. If only you said where you can find the article, many would read it. For example, I sit on the phone, usually when the children are sleeping, and it is extremely inconvenient to hammer in a long name in the search. And many forum participants do not have time to sit and chat about the Internet, no matter how someone will lose from the fact that a person will share info where you can find this or that topic.
And there is no negative attitude to the newcomers, there is no direct antipathy, but reading from the outside it can be seen! If the old-timers do not want to repeat the same thing several times, but do not answer, there is someone to answer. Not really reading all the pages. And even if you read it, and I did it only because I ended up in a hospital bed, you won't remember everything! Or close the forum to join freely. How many beginners dropped out due to aggression only in my memory.
I understand that I will most likely be banned now, and I would not even be surprised at this, but I could not help speaking!

[Katerinka]

KaterinkaThank you very much, once again the classics are right - "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" ...
if information can help you, I have tried many moments not only on Ivan tea, but also on those leaves that are available ...
for example, heat the prepared collection in the oven (in the city-in the oven) before drying - and the aroma, color, and eventually a brighter taste will be better, tested.
Thanks again!

[Ecatch]

Ecatch, yes on our form this is a very often used practice, only we call it fry! And the meaning is the same. There is a lot of useful information here, and a lot has been tested!

[Katerinka]

Katerinka, frying is not in a frying pan / baking sheet at first a high temperature, and then at a lower temperature? this is later, after the stove / oven ...
sometimes 2-3 times you can take out, steam, and then fry and dry.
This was prompted by a massive viewing of materials on the types of tea and the mass of methods for its preparation in China (both before and now). There, oolongs, for example, are still cooked only by steaming (repeatedly) in some areas.
I noticed that with such processing (both Ivan tea and other harvests), the quality and taste are much better.
Thanks for the answer =):

Good evening, tea parties! Can you please tell me - today we collected some red-yellow leaves of Ivan-tea, while there is no time to study, can you immediately go into the freezer or dry it first? Although they probably already faded by now

[baba nata]

baba nata, for the third autumn, when collecting late Ivan tea, I did not see any difference in the final result (I deliberately divided the parties - with and without withering), I think this is also because the autumn leaf is already drier in comparison with the young and juicy. In the event that a decent amount of time has passed until you find yourself at home, then I had the feeling that fresh leaves are drying during transportation.

Comrades tea makers. No one accidentally met information on the manufacture of tea leaves from Jerusalem artichoke leaf. And it seems like it blooms with might and main and the leaf is good. I heard about the extraordinary usefulness of Jerusalem artichoke tea leaves.

[Citizen]

Citizen, just picked a packet of leaves today. In the network came across a video, in it they prepared leaves by analogy with Ivan-tea, fermentation there proceeded faster. It was mentioned here by those who tried to prepare - this tea did not take root among those who prepared it. But I think there must be some trick (by analogy with raspberry and currant leaves for granulated tea, freeze it) ...
I can’t accept the fact that such a mass of leaves can only be dried for medicinal collection.
I personally get from Jerusalem artichoke:
- petals-on drying (as an addition to tea)
-leaves - dry for medicinal purposes (this year I will try to pass through fermentation)
- I also dry the stems (finely chopped) - for different purposes: both as markers on a plot with new plantings, and as a fence from cats in the garden; I came across on the farmers' forum that someone tried to cut fresh stems into pieces-freeze-boil in winter and eat (they said that it looks like beans).
At one time, I came across a dissertation on the study of Jerusalem artichoke - a mass of usefulness, extremely underestimated, unfortunately, we have Jerusalem artichoke.
I had to freeze Jerusalem artichoke leaves until there was a chance to make tea. When it comes to business, I can report the results, if interested.

[Citizen]

Citizen, there are videos on YouTube, here is one of them

A friend cooked, did not respond very well, said that the taste was too peculiar, far from tea, comparing it with other types of raw materials.

Thanks People! How important communication is!

Hello everyone!
I did not make tea from Jerusalem artichoke, and froze the stems after twisting. Then this mass was used in cooking. And in botvinya soup, and in mashed potatoes, and in stews are different. I did not notice a special taste, but all the dishes were eaten with pleasure. Means, good for food!

In Jerusalem artichoke, as I understood, they don't really notice the taste, but the benefits are unique. If tubers (even the smallest ones) are washed, chopped, dried (I cut them into thin circles), then in winter when added to soup, for example, the smell of mushrooms appears. Apparently, everyone already knows about the benefits for those suffering from the ailment of diabetes mellitus, and to this we can add: it helps those who want to lose weight, heal the kidneys, with high acidity and anemia, etc.
There are enough tannins in the plant, so I decided to experiment with tea.

An interesting result turned out: I took out frozen ivan tea (+ a little alder, cherry) from the freezer. After contrast defrosting (in the steam room), I put the whole mass on fermentation, after 3-4 hours I transferred it to a clay pot and put it in a cooling oven overnight. In the morning: amazing smell, intense and completely new aroma (almonds, fruits, astringency). I will dry it (I think, without frying, so that this aroma is not replaced by caramel). Such a composition can be added in the manufacture of liqueurs, tinctures, balsams, will add a lot of interesting things to the composition. I think this option is well suited in cases where it is not possible to complete the rest of the stages immediately after fermentation, and there is access to heat treatment (probably, you can try not to bake, but to oven, grill, etc.).

After 5 days, the whole steam room continues to smell of this tea, I have not noticed this before ...

An interesting result turned out: I took out frozen ivan tea (+ a little alder, cherry) from the freezer. After contrast defrosting (in the steam room), I put the whole mass on fermentation, after 3-4 hours I transferred it to a clay pot and put it in a cooling oven overnight. In the morning: amazing smell, intense and completely new aroma (almonds, fruits, astringency). I will dry it (I think, without frying, so that this aroma is not replaced by caramel). Such a composition can be added in the manufacture of liqueurs, tinctures, balsams, will add a lot of interesting things to the composition. I think this option is well suited in cases where it is not possible to complete the rest of the stages immediately after fermentation, and there is access to heat treatment (probably, you can try not to bake, but to oven, grill, etc.).

After 5 days, the whole steam room continues to smell of this tea, I have not noticed this before ...

Interesting result

Yes, alder gives a long lasting fragrance. And right after drying too, unlike all others. And then it only intensifies and mixes with the emerging aroma of other components of the tea. And even if there is very little of it, there is still a scent right away.

Yes, alder gives a long lasting fragrance. And right after drying too, unlike all others. And then it only intensifies and mixes with the emerging aroma of other components of the tea. And even if there is very little of it, there is still a scent right away.

Alder in mixes and duets has done before, repeatedly;
And the surprise was caused by a SO new smell - in terms of range, duration, saturation - as a result of after a night soaking in a cooling oven (and BEFORE fermentation, and AFTER, before drying).
I left the mixture in a large-leaf form, did not grind it, - now the whole storage box with containers where it is stored already smells.

[Ecatch]

Each time the tea turns out to be different, even with the same ingredients.
Ecatch, You need to draw up a recipe so that those who want to do it according to your algorithm, it will still get lost here.

[Ecatch]

Ecatch, and where did you find black alder in LO?

[Galina Iv.]

You need to know the placesGalina Iv.!
It is not written that black alder means gray!

Gray alder does not give any color or aroma .. and we have a lot of gray, but black alder is another matter! And it is extremely rare.