Starter cultures - in questions and answers

SQUARE ON HERCULES FLAKES
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3394.0

Shaped wheat bread with hercules sourdough
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3736.new#new

The principle of feeding and storage is the same as for mk-starter culture. I gave links on the sourdough

About feeding the starter culture:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

Success

Admin thanks for the quick answer, I have already read this, as you showed by an example to calculate how much sourdough you need per 500g. flour.
But in your recipe 2nd option:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3736.new#new
written 520g. flour + 3 cups of sourdough.
So I want to understand correctly

I have to take it more initially or feed it from another calculation, for example 80x100

Pay attention to the dates on which the recipes were posted and how the starter cultures were prepared, as well as the dates the text was written.

There are many and different starter cultures, and there are also ways to use them - many of them need to be learned to apply in practice, by trial and error. No recipe author will give you exact recommendations - everyone does it their own way.

And no Recipe Author can guarantee that his recipe will achieve the same result as his - too many factors are involved in baking bread and making sourdoughs.

Success

thanks ROM

Hello everyone!
I have a question with the following content:
- I kept the leaven in the refrigerator for 7 days, began to revive it, but the smell seems to be not the same (not sour). Maybe yeast has already started up there, but the leavening bacteria have died?
- why leave half of the leaven "next time", because you can leave a little dough or dough - there are live and vigorous bacteria.

What sourdough do you use? Each starter has its own regime and its own scheme of keeping and feeding.

If you have lactic acid, then see the information here:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0


https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0


Success

I have one sourdough on malt, the other on hops, I feed it with a mixture of rye and wheat flour of the 1st grade. Previously, there was a sour smell, as from sour juice, but now there is much less acid, but it does not smell like mash either. But I think that even if the microflora was reborn there, then this is no longer baker's yeast, but wild, natural. Or are they equally harmful?

The ripe sourdough does not smell sour, but has a quite pleasant smell.
Wild yeast, unlike cultivated ones, has slightly different properties, you should probably talk about the harm with doctors (if you have contraindications).

[Admin]

Admin tell me pliz ..... today I will feed my mk leaven for the third time, it rises for me, I have already upset it twice, for today, but it is not rising as rapidly as everyone else, I realized that the peak may already soon, I want to leave for 10 days, what should I do with her ??? After all, you can't leave it for so long, it will completely disappear and start reanimating again, or will you have to throw it out later ???

And another question, if this is the third day, I don't care to look after my leaven, as written above, after the peak it should stand for 5-8 hours and you can bake on it ??? The result of the crumb, as I understand it, will affect ... but if I miss the peak, because at work (my son is looking after her). For tomorrow I already need bread .... and so I wanted to bake it in the oven, but I can’t, because I’ll be at work, then only in KhP will I have to bake it ???

[Svetik_]

Svetik_ , in the links that I gave you in great detail it is written how many times and how to feed the sourdough and when it starts to peak.

If you think that three days are enough for you to grow a new sourdough from scratch, then so be it, you will get such bread

I also left you today a guideline for the readiness of the leaven:

For 3-4 days the leaven smells like rotten grass and tastes the same, then as it ripens, the taste and smell become like an apple.

I get it for 6-7 days, then the leaven turns out to be ripe and active.The bubbling leaven smelling of rotten grass is not yet ripe leaven.

Therefore, choose the option yourself - you start baking with an unripe sourdough or wait for its activity.
Here I can no longer advise ...

About feeding sourdough, I answered here:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

[Admin]

Admin no, mine is not ready yet ... it has risen by 2cm, and the process of bubbling is still going on, the smell is already acquiring a sour taste ... it does not rise to the brim, but soon, if 6-7 days, then it really will be a ripe sourdough, and mine by that time will probably also ripen
I asked about leaving, if you put it in a jar and in the refrigerator, then I will reanimate it for a long time ???
We will be leaving soon, I probably won't have time to bake bread, I really want to bake it, but it takes time to wait

If you carefully read my links, then there is no question of raising the leaven to the height of a three-liter jar.

On the 3-5th day, the leaven can and should rise only 2-2.5 times, then it must be lowered.

If you are going to leave, put it in the refrigerator in the warmest place, then feed it (see link). The resuscitation period depends on how mature it is and how long it will be in the refrigerator.

It is advisable to plan the time - you put the leaven, did not complete it, did not activate it properly and leave it for storage

Well, look upon arrival, what you get in the end

Good luck!

[Romchka]

Romchka tell me how to correctly calculate the bread recipe if:
I'll write a complete quick recipe, and you check it, okay ???

Dry yeast - 1 hour l. (there will be leaven instead)
Wheat flour - 350g
Rye flour - 50g
Salt - 1 hour l.
Draining. oil - 1 tbsp. l.
Water - 310ml
So if I fed my starter 100/100 for 3 days, then 300g / 300ml, right ??? So I'm missing:
Wheat - 50g
Rye-???
Water - 10ml, but what about rye flour ??? If she's already there 300g ??
Weigh my sourdough, and how much to lay down ???

By the way, I visited my grandmother the other day and asked about the leaven. It turns out that the great-grandmother kept the sourdough by rolling it in flour. It dries up and becomes crusty, and remains alive in the center. (there were no refrigerators before) But when the leaven was "awakened", it was added to the flour brewed with boiling water.

[Svetik_]

Svetik_

1. What sourdough have you grown? Wheat or rye?

2. How much leaven by quantity do you expect to put in the dough? As a rule, 40-50% of the sourdough by weight of flour is put into the dough - this is about 160-200 grams of sourdough (400 grams of flour x 40-50%)

3. If so, then you need to take about 200 grams of starter culture, which already contains 100 grams of flour (which one?) And 100 ml of water.
If the flour in sourdough is wheat, then you need to take 250 grams of wheat flour (350 - 100 in sourdough).
And take 50 grams of rye flour according to the recipe.

4. if you have rye flour in your sourdough, then you need to take 100 grams of sourdough in which 50 grams of rye flour and 50 ml of water.
Then you will need to take all 350 grams of wheat flour

In this variant, you will have only 100 grams of sourdough, which will be only 25% by the weight of the flour (and not 40-50%).

Here, choose an option

[Admin]

Admin what a pity that I didn’t read your message in the evening, I didn’t have an Internet, that’s an ambush, and in the morning I was waiting for it, I changed everything according to yours, at first a lot of leaven was drunk, and then I began to correct it, maybe it’s a bread
I have rye sourdough on kefir .... after the second feeding, as it went to increase, I fed it for the third time, and it constantly began to rise by 2 cm ... I put it down many times, even at night I got up and laid siege to it, so it rose cool
I am so afraid of these recalculations, until I get used to it, but I’m getting used to it, to get bread from what I conjured.
Now I will always make kefir sourdough on rye flour, it really rises very well, in just three days.
If the flour in the recipe is 500-600g of wheat, then should I put 200-240g of sourdoughs like this? Something else I am floating with recalculation to leaven.
I'll bake it today ...I'm even afraid, then you will help (if you did something wrong) I put the leaven in the refrigerator and in the freezer, it's a pity to throw it away, but suddenly some disappears during our vacation, so at least one of the two will survive

[Admin]

Admin, according to these calculations, a very small loaf turned out, I can't say anything to taste at all, because not at home, maybe they put a little leaven ??? By the way, I added more water so that there was a normal bun, that is, not 50 ml of water, but all 150 ml was needed, and the starter culture needed 200 ml. What can be miscalculations ???

Let's have a recipe and a photo of bread - then we'll see

I wrote the bread recipe above ..... and I will post the photo in the evening only, I know that it weighs about 610g and a height of 10.5 cm, I don't know the taste, when I get home, then I'll taste it

[Admin]

Admin I realized my mistake ... .. as I fought with yeast dough, so here too ..... I didn't have enough proofing and that's it .... .. well, maybe add some more water to a normal bun, and so. ... it probably turned out to be bread ... because inside I have it normal (that's what my son said), so I will continue to try
The most important thing I learned, I saw mistakes, and then it will be better

[Svetik_]

Svetik_, I read your answers here and in the Donetsk topic, unfortunately you are running ahead of the locomotive (sorry) and do not read at all and do not pay attention to many subtleties and trifles on which the whole process of leavening and baking depends.

I have already drawn your attention several times that a loose sourdough that strives to jump out of the can for 2-3 days is still not active leaven with which bread is obtained.

The sourdough must be aged for about 6-7 days so that it smells like an apple, not rotten grass.

From a mash of water and rye flour you need to get active starter culture.

Yeast must be added to the dough, especially at first, while the leaven is still weak. Half serving - but you need to add.

Yesterday I made you a calculation of flour and leaven - you did not use it.

And the last thing - no one canceled the rules of a kolobok when baking bread in a bread machine, and you have wheat-rye bread (taking into account the leaven).
We have such a bun in the subject
Formation of a wheat bun. Tips for beginners.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1502.0


You will get the best advice on sourdough and baking bread on it, if you visit the topic more often (common for everyone on the forum) Bake bread with sourdough, which is led by Raisin and Viki.

And you do not need to be isolated in your topic "Donetsk" - go out and learn to bake good bread with everyone.

Good luck!

[Admin]

Admin... who said that I did not use the calculation ??? And where did I get it in your opinion ???
Today I saw the calculation and did everything like this, I just added water, because the bun was not a bun at all, but a loose mass, then I added and formed a bun
I am in the subject of Sourdough and so I ask, why did you decide that I am only in Donetsk ??? My girls were not there, so I stuck to you

Yes, do not be offended by me Do not rush everywhere in the forum in search of "truth"

Go to the girls on the topic We Bake bread with sourdough, and sit there day and night, ask questions about sourdough - they will teach you to love sourdough and bake bread with it: D

Over time it will turn out

[Admin]

Admin I just want to find a recipe that I like, so I ask my girls who bake, and I climbed into this forum with Sourdough. Yes, and I see what things are happening there, I want to, as they said ... in front of the locomotive
I'll post a photo, but the bread is a little undersalted, because I probably took away the sourdough and salt together with the sourdough and salt, but, by the way, it's very cool, but the little ones are so myself. I liked the texture of the bread

Here is my Baby



If I had stood the bread a little longer, I probably would have been very, very

[Admin]

Here is my second pancake lumpy, but on my face there is a good (I think) the porosity of the bread ... I again did not survive, I did it in the French mode, and this is what I got ....... for the third time already finally I will make it good, I will knead in the evening and leave it until the morning, and in the morning I will bake





Still, I didn't quite calculate correctly, but I did the calculations like this:
the original recipe goes:
500g wheat flour
1.5 tsp. yeast
1.5 tbsp. l sugar
1 tsp salt
330 ml water
1.5 tbsp.l. oils

What I did, I added sourdoughs there, I got about 460g (rye)
salt and sugar in the same way, butter too, but added 300g of flour and added 6 tbsp. l flour (could not form a bun), 150 ml water
Actually, I didn't think so, but from here I changed a little

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=12122.0
For some reason it seems to me that there is not enough water ... the bun is not kneaded, rightly or not, I don't know, but I understood how to do it for the future
Maybe someone can count me correctly how much should be ???
Admin, can you deduce this recipe ???
thank you very much

[Svetik_]

Svetik_, write down the recipe, what and how much you actually added to the dough.
Just do not write - I subtract it, I added it - write what you put specifically

Rye sourdough - 460g
Wheat flour-300g + 6 tbsp. l
Water - 150g
1.5 tsp. salt
1.5 tbsp. l. Sahara
2 tbsp. l. oil pods.
120 ml. water

The original is here:
500g flour
330ml water
1.5 tsp. salt
1.5 tbsp. l. Sahara
1.5 tbsp. l. oils

Today I baked the first bread with MK-leaven. It rose well, there were no problems with the leaven. Only the bread is sour and tastes like old sour cream. I tried other leavens - the bread is also sour. It doesn `t suit me. Is that how it should be? Or, over time, there will be no sourness. Maybe add soda to neutralize lactic acid?

Sourdough bread - MUST NOT BE SOUR! There should be a characteristic smell of ready-made bread and a slight (subtle) sourness in the taste. Perhaps you are using an already acidified starter culture? Taste it (it should be sour, but not pinching your tongue).

[Svetik_]

Svetik_ - I answer:

you took:

Rye sourdough - 460g
Wheat flour-300g + 6 tbsp. l
Water - 150g
1.5 tsp. salt
1.5 tbsp. l. Sahara
2 tbsp. l. oil pods.
120 ml. water

The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1625.0

If you have a 1x1 sourdough, then the sourdough contains 230 grams of rye flour and 230 grams of water

Then we consider:
Rye flour - 230 grams
Wheat flour - 300 + 55 = 355 grams of flour.
Total flour 585 grams (600 grams)
Water - 150+ 230 + 120 = 500 ml or 85% to flour (390-400 ml) You got the amount of water 85% (500 ml per 585 grams of flour is a lot, so your roof has sunk - too much water)
Salt - 1.5 tsp (2 tsp)
Sugar - 1.5 tbsp. l (2-3 tbsp. l)
Sunflower oil. 2 tbsp. l (2-3 tbsp. l)
Yeast - no (1.5 tsp)

The quantity in brackets that must be put according to the standards (see link).

The sourdough is not yet ripe, so you can also add yeast 1-1.5 tsp.

I recommend making the following bookmark:

Sourdough - 460 grams (including rye flour 230 + water 230)
Wheat flour - the calculation is 300 grams, and then how will it turn out to the kolobok.
Water - 230 in sourdough + 170 water + up to 400 ml.
Further, all the products as I have listed. Whether to replace the quantity of products - decide for yourself.
Salt - 1.5 tsp (2 tsp)
Sugar - 1.5 tbsp. l (2-3 tbsp. l)
Sunflower oil. 2 tbsp. l (2-3 tbsp. l)
Yeast - (1.5 tsp)

Mix according to the "flour in water" scheme. First, pour all the starter culture + 170 ml of water into a bucket and gradually add wheat flour until a normal bun is formed.

The amount of wheat flour may turn out to be more or less than 300 grams according to the recipe, but this will be the amount that will be needed before the bun.

By the amount of rye flour 230 grams and 300 grams of wheat flour - the bun will be wheat-rye

See the photo on the formation of the kolobok here:
Wheat gingerbread man
#

So repeat, in this thread everything in the photo is shown and described.
Plan your bread oven like this:

Normal kneading, first proofing before doubling, kneading, second proofing before doubling, bakery products.

Good luck!

[Admin]

Adminthanks, I will try further

I had the same story. I made "festive bread" with lactic acid sourdough.
Zaksvaska I have so "vigorous". It has been in the refrigerator for a long time. Did as Admin taught. For three days I fed and cherished my leaven.
According to the recipe, there is proofing for two to three hours. But! After three (!) Hours of proofing, my dough didn't rise at all ...
I got offended at him and put it back in the bucket, in the bread maker. Until morning. I think that it will be, it will be .... And in the morning I looked and oh, a miracle !!! the dough has risen! I put it on baking, the bread turned out ...
Sour and fluffy. I also like to put honey there instead of sugar, so that it smells. And honey gives an interesting "aftertaste" after the leavening sourness ...
In general, I am happy with the result.
I'll put it on for the night again today.

[Admin]

Admin I'm wildly sorry, I wrote it wrong with water ...added 120 ml total water, not 150 + 120. I confused you ....... Can I count it now?
Or for such a recipe, strictly adhere to your calculations, well, except for the kolobok, you always have to control it, as I understand it, right ???

Flour -500g
Salt - 1.5 hours l
Sugar -1.5 tbsp. l.
Oil -1.5 tbsp. l.
Water - 330ml
Yeast - 1.5 hours l.

Or as they wrote to all my leaven

Sourdough - 460 grams (including rye flour 230 + water 230)
Wheat flour - the calculation is 300 grams, and then how will it turn out to the kolobok.
Water - 230 in sourdough + 170 water + up to 400 ml.
Further, all products as I have listed. Whether to replace the quantity of products - decide for yourself.
Salt - 1.5 tsp (2 tsp)
Sugar - 1.5 tbsp. l (2-3 tbsp. l)
Sunflower oil. 2 tbsp. l (2-3 tbsp. l)
Yeast - (1.5 tsp)

And it is obligatory to put yeast all the same ??? Or is it just for the first time so necessary ???

Now it doesn't matter how you did in the past - the result is obvious - sorry on the table

I made a calculation for you, gave links to photos and a bun - try to look and do it according to the principle of "flour in water" - this is also written in great detail in the topic.

If I'm not sure about the result of what I'm doing, or if I'm doing it for the first time with sourdough, I insure myself with yeast - you can reduce the amount to 1 tsp.

When you fully master the recipe and the bread begins to turn out as it should, you can still reduce the yeast, and then completely abandon it.
But by that time you will have already learned how to bake bread as needed.

With yeast, bread turns out faster - the whole cycle can take place in the bread maker in the Basic (basic) mode.

Today is my milk day - the thrush brought fresh milk and other milk.
And I noticed that my order is in a plastic bucket and lined with plastic bottles with frozen water.
Thanks to Natasha - she treats her products and our customers with care.

And I remembered about a portable refrigerator - I myself once drove far away in such products.

Why am I?

It is summer now (and not only in summer), and you need to store the leaven somewhere at a temperature not lower than + 8-10 * C.
For these purposes, you can buy such a portable refrigerator, cooler bag and others of different sizes and volumes.

They are made of thick polystyrene, flat containers with specials are attached to them. liquid, which are pre-frozen in the freezer of an ordinary refrigerator, and then put into the chamber, and then the products are laid, sorry sourdough.
Additionally, you can use the same plastic bottles with frozen water.

Here is a fridge for starter cultures - cheap and cheerful!

No need - removed. A fridge for starter cultures requires a lot of space and you can't put it on the balcony - but such a container can be put up, it's not scary and e-mail. energy will not eat.

Good luck!

[Admin]

Admin well look at my suffering ...
I came with pictures





Cut it hot

but cooled down in the cut

Svetik_, I'm sorry, I didn't pay attention, what kind of starter do you use? In the photo, the bread is quite decent (cooled down in general, OK), why are you sinning on it?

[kava]

kava I have rye sourdough on kefir, I don’t sin with bread .... but the fact that this is already my third, the other two did not rise and with a collapsed roof, so I wrote that the third would be in the oven already and as expected. ..... Sufferer so to speak

I had so much trouble on the forum, and here is the result

You say the third - I probably tried a dozen different options and exhausted a bunch of products until I got closer to the desired result. I also started with kefir. Used for rye breads. And then I wanted to bake and wheat with sourdough and started another French one. Then it became difficult to take care of 2 leavens, so I left the Frenchwoman - she seemed to me more universal. But that's just my opinion.

I also have wheat sourdough, it’s all bubbled in the refrigerator, I’ve not touched it yet (it started with it), while it’s hungry, I’ll come home from vacation, I’ll feed and cherish it, and I immediately poured rye like mad, I liked it, but the bread turns out to be wheat-rye and I can't count anything, that's what I'm nervous about, there would be some kind of standard ...I would use it, but it is so much troublesome.
Either the yeast fell asleep and got bread from HP, but here is a pancake ......, then something is wrong, then it is ....... you probably need to do this and so .... so that the experience gained is not to lose ... and then start from scratch again ... I don't want to ..... the truth will never work, on the contrary, everything should get stronger, but the leavens ... this is something, I was looking for something easier, or rather, which is easier ...

I took out this bread for myself, wrote down that I had laid down, in addition to the main one, there is already a recipe ready for me, that is, No. 1
And then you need to make wheat, because mine love it, again you need to suffer

Experienced bakers! Tell a newbie. The recipe assumes that the leaven is kept for 24 hours at a temperature of 30-40 degrees. I have an oven - at least 50

How did you solve this issue?

Rchept suggests keeping the starter culture for 24 hours at a temperature of 30-40 degrees. I have an oven - at least 50

How did you solve this issue?

I also have a minimum of 50 * in the oven. I started my sourdough in the winter near the battery. And now it's already 30 * hot everywhere (what's in the apartment, what's on the balcony)

How did you solve this issue?

I grew up in a yogurt maker. She spent the first day in a yogurt maker with an unopened lid, and on the bottom I laid paper napkins (about six). The rest of the days she spent in an open yogurt maker, that is, without a lid.
I already wrote about this here: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=4994.0
Good luck to you!

Found information especially for you

Portable thermocoolers
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=15673.0