Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Where to buy the right starter culture:
In the state bakery industry, there is a collection of microorganism strains for baking.
Sourdough games at home are a lottery game, depending on the quality of the flour, etc.
See https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=290076.0

Girls, I'm new here, help me. Traditional French sourdough. I duplicate the question here. I reread it, but I don’t fully understand. I have the final stage in the refrigerator. What to do next. I take it out of the fridge and how to feed it. Once a day ? If I have now let's say 500 gr. I need to feed 500 plus 500 flour and 275 water. Everyday? I don't want to lose anything. She lives, I think, not in the refrigerator. And after feeding, do we put everything in the refrigerator? How much. Explain. And how much after feeding can the starter be used for baking. I feel like a tree

Please, tell me how to do it right: pinch off a piece from the mother's sourdough and feed the remainder or take the whole sourdough, put the dough, and then take a new piece from it at an intermediate stage for reproduction?
It seems to be written that the mother's should remain, I watched the video from Oleg the baker, so he regenerates her, making it seem like a new generation, the mother's one does not remain. And the sourdough is taken for 2 kg of flour, 2.2 kg of water, only a couple of tablespoons, not even a glass.
So which is more correct?

I most often use the whole starter culture:
I have KM 100%, I keep it in the refrigerator for about 150-200 g.
Accordingly, if there is no other specifics in the recipe, I mix the entire leaven with an equal amount of flour and KM (whey in my case) from the recipe.
Then I leave from this mixture by weight as much as I added, and the rest (already, in fact, fed) I send to the refrigerator until the next time.
And the left, if necessary, I supplement with flour or liquid, and it either serves as a dough / big, that is, it matures for the prescribed amount of time, or I immediately knead the dough with the rest of the ingredients with it.
I hope I described it clearly.
If it is not clear, then write me the recipe you are interested in and what kind of leaven you have - I will write on their example.

Olga,
I just put the wild starter culture by eye (yogurt and whole wheat wheat) just 3 days ago.
I haven't decided which recipe to try yet.
I would be grateful if you could advise a proven recipe for wheat bread with mk leaven.
I make yoghurts myself, using milk and dry sourdough.

[Milamila]

Milamila, it is advisable to make the leaven not by eye, but exactly by weight, otherwise it is difficult to calculate how much to take for the test, and how much to add to it.
If you keep an MK leaven, then any MK products are suitable for it, even with a strongly expired shelf life.
I have a starter culture of 100% moisture on wheat flour, w / c and on whey (by weight, not by volume). I like it because it is convenient for me to lead it, it is not capricious, it is convenient for it to recount recipes, and I always have whey, because I make cottage cheese all the time.
I use it for any bread recipe - I just take the recipe I like and adapt it to my sourdough.
Therefore, I have a lot of proven recipes.
In order to count a recipe for your starter culture, you need to know at least its moisture content.
It seems to me that you will find many answers to your questions on leaven here, by KM sourdough here, and for sourdough bread - here.
Good luck!

Colleagues, has anyone tried to simply put a part of the yeast dough on pressed yeast in the refrigerator, and after a few days use this dough as a sourdough for a new one? This method is not very convenient if you use the full cycle of the bread machine, there is no way to separate part of the dough. But I have long been disappointed in bread from a bread machine, and now I use it only for kneading dough, and I still prefer to bake baguettes in the oven. The shelf life of the pressed yeast in the refrigerator seems to be like a whole month, so in the dough for three days, their culture can probably live in the cold painlessly ...I decided to try the other day, half of the dough in the case, half in the container and in the refrigerator. Three days later I took it out, I felt an alcoholic smell, made another batch, like everything worked out so far. I also put half in a container.

To bother with sourdoughs, of which you don't want to bulk up here. I tried it like that, there is a lot of fuss, but the result is also not impressive. It seems like, in theory, everything should work, we do not add any by-products, such as milk or eggs that can rot, only a little sunflower oil, a little salt and sugar. If the way is working, then why doesn't anyone do that, at least I haven't met? Or are there any pitfalls, for example, over time, the "leaven" will somehow "deteriorate" and the bread will turn out worse and worse? On pressed yeast, in general, the result is quite satisfactory, but the need to constantly have them fresh is annoying. At one time I tried to cut a stick of yeast into portioned pieces and freeze, as it turned out, even in this form, the yeast does not last long.Moreover, we are not talking about defrosting / freezing, even the yeast just lying in the freezer gradually dies for some reason, for a maximum of a month, then the result is not guaranteed ... Somehow I discovered that the dough did not rise at all, took out the leftovers of the yeast from the freezer, tried to make a dough - no signs of life, corpses. Then I just realized that every day I lay in the freezer, the yeast was losing activity, I just did not notice it until I died quite once. Well, if the acidity of the bread slightly increases with this method "with a large thick leaven", then I also think the bread will only benefit.

[Jin24]

Jin24, what you describe - it turns out baking on the old dough, if you take a piece of dough after the previous kneading and use it as a starter. There are such recipes on the Internet in general, and on our forum.
If you then lead this piece as a leaven, then it turns into a leaven. Only then it is better to conduct it without any frills in the form of oil-salt, tk. they greatly inhibit the development of gluten. Sugar does not bother much, but it is also better not to get carried away with it.
Those. if you do not want to bother with sourdough breeding, then you can take any sourdough recipe that you like, but do not grow everything according to all the rules, but at the first stage add quite a bit of yeast, let it ripen until an increase of 2.5-3 times and then lead it like leaven.
Why not
Good luck!

[AlexKor]

No, not really. I am not bothered by the process of removing the leaven (even though I understand that even with full compliance with the recipe, the result is not guaranteed AlexKor a few messages above gave a link where about this in more detail). It strains me to keep it alive, namely that it (the leaven) is usually more liquid than the dough and needs to be kneaded separately. That is, add flour-water to the sourdough, stir by hand, wait for a while until it boils, then use part of it for dough, and carefully store the other part in the refrigerator and (or) regularly feed. Too many body movements. Let's say to divide the dough in half and bake one half in the oven, and leave the other in the form of sourdough, it's not at all stressful. But will there be a good and stable result?

You choose the density (moisture content) of the starter culture yourself - it's not a question.
You can also lead it without much stress. For example, take from the recipe of the intended dough the products participating in your starter in the right proportion, mix them with the starter, set aside the future starter / starter from this mixture, put it in the refrigerator until the next time, and add the rest with other ingredients of the selected recipe and then knead the dough. ...

Personally, I don't feed the sourdough separately, I don't strain it separately, if the recipe for this is not too demanding. I just keep it in the refrigerator from use to use and don't stand on ceremony. For several years now, it has withstood this quite well.
About stability. Naturally, the young starter culture is less stable than the mature one.
But with your approach, you don't have to bother with the leaven or the old dough at all. After all, this also leads to longer periods of maturation of the dough, its preparation for baking.
You can just use yeast. And if fresh is not convenient for you, use dry. They are less capricious and more tenacious.
Good luck!

[Jin24]

Jin24, but such a leaven will not suit you?
Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=42973.0

Convenient to prepare. Can be led as eternal. And you can as suggested Vika
She's by leaps and bounds, and stands in the refrigerator for a month

You can also lead it without much stress. For example, take from the recipe of the intended dough the products participating in your starter in the right proportion, mix them with the starter, set aside the future starter / starter from this mixture, put it in the refrigerator until the next time, and add the rest with other ingredients of the selected recipe and then knead the dough. ...

This is my main doubt so far. In an ordinary bread recipe, additional ingredients (salt / sugar / butter) are so insignificant that I had a thought, but is there any point in making the leaven separately for fear that such a small amount of these ingredients will badly affect the leaven? I don’t want to use dry, and especially any instant-fast-acting yeast. Firstly, they are expensive, especially in small one-time packs, and after opening, large packs can also not be stored very well and, accordingly, give not a guaranteed result ... and secondly, the mummy has long noticed that pies and buns from them are not obtained at all and quickly stale, something is generally wrong with this yeast ...

something is generally wrong with this yeast ...

Everything is so with yeast
The yeast is different and is intended for different baked goods. And the concentration is also different.
You need to know what kind of yeast you are using, follow the recipe and observe the shelf life and conditions.

[Olga VB]

Olga VBThanks for the tip, keyword search old dough in my opinion I gave what I need, I will try.

I don’t want to use dry, and especially any instant-fast-acting yeast. Firstly, they are expensive, especially in small one-time packs,

This is a discovery for me!
Our frequently used safs are generally worth a penny, but they work very well.
A pack of less than 10 rubles is obtained, but it is enough for 3-4 normal loaves.
And yeast is very inexpensive for baking too. And all this is stored in the freezer without loss of working qualities for quite a long time, already for several months - without problems, even when opened.
🔗
And, by the way, baked goods become stale not from the type of yeast used, but from HOW you use them and how much you use them. And how you lead the dough.

In an ordinary bread recipe, additional ingredients (salt / sugar / butter) are so insignificant that I had a thought, but is there any point in making the leaven separately for fear that such a small amount of these ingredients will badly affect the leaven?

Will affect, do not hesitate! The quality of the bread is even influenced by the mood with which you start it. And the composition of the products - even more so.
And here it makes sense to understand the intricacies, to understand, to feel the processes. The dough does not like cavalry attacks and "rough" attitude. Baking under the motto "and so will go away" will never be successful.
So you will blame the yeast for what you screwed up.
Good luck!

Will affect, do not hesitate! The quality of the bread is even influenced by the mood with which you start it.

Well, this is already mysticism and superstition, someone believes in them, I have not. By the way, I have already baked it three or four times, and I am satisfied with the result. Better than on fresh yeast and much better than on tricky leavens, I didn’t get anything good with the leavens and the result was not stable, the fermentation processes in the leavens, in my opinion, very quickly went in pathogenic directions and the bread came out generally disgusting, although before it was not very ... Apparently I didn't look after the leavens very well or approached them with the wrong mood. In general, there is a lot of fuss, but the result is not so hot, the game is not worth the candle.
By the way, here, too, do not be afraid that there are additives in the test https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=162046.0 As it turned out I was on the right path, what I just intuitively came up with has long been invented and people have been doing this for a long time. I'm even making it even easier for now, I just divided the dough in about half and kept it in the refrigerator for much less than a week, and even so it's not bad.

About instant yeast, I generally heard how it was for a long time that it is not yeast that works there, but enzymes isolated from them, such as that is why they are fast-acting, that is, there are live ones there too, but basically there are enzymes-enzymes ... this is 100 percent true, but something is still wrong with them. This opinion is not mine, but as I told my mother and based on her experience, and she knows a lot about baking. It may be, for example, that compressed yeast is more "dirty" and these ballast substances contained in it have a beneficial effect on the dough. There may be some other explanation, but fact is fact, there is a difference. When I thought about why this was so I remembered the example with salt. The overwhelming majority of Russian housewives prefer white, fine, refined, so-called "vyvorny" salt. While in fact in the world the best varieties are considered to be coarsely ground "dirty" varieties with impurities. In general, just in case, I preferred to use live pressed yeast, but they are not stored for a long time and, as it turned out, even in the freezer.

what I just now intuitively came up with has long been invented and people have been doing this for a long time.

Yes, America has long been open.

Good luck!

[Jin24]

The quality of the bread is even influenced by the mood with which you start it.

Well, this is already mysticism and superstition, someone believes in them, I do not

Jin24, no, not mysticism, but harsh reality
If I feel bad, or I am nervous, or just lazy, I will definitely spill something, spill it, and inattentively measure out the food, or even forget something. And all sorts of dances with tambourines such as pre-mixing, standing, non-simultaneous addition of products, and even reluctance to start. Well, the result is slightly worse.
However, you are a man, atmospheric phenomena and hormones may not affect you so much, they are not reflected on bread

I agree 100% Bread is a living creature. If you raised him with love from childhood, he will reciprocate. He does not like fuss, speed. Your energy (as, indeed, in any other business) is the basis. You pass it on to the bread!
Now imagine: you took the grain, held it in your hands, sorted it out, washed it, dried it, ground it, made sourdough, dough on it, then the bread itself ... Yes, for a long time, but at each stage you gave the bread a piece of yourself and it carries your energy !

But with dry yeast I also have a problem. Even if I open a fresh pack, well, it’s not that dough than a "pack" dough. About 12 years ago, they brought me dry yeast from the states. That was yeast! Perhaps lately I have come across a delay or a fake ...

[Milamila]

Milamila, maybe this is not the place for this discussion, but it surprises me that you agree with me
For me, the words that I transfer my energy to bread do not make sense. I taught physics at school and I believe that there is no such transfer. I just wrote the opposite - that you don't have to blame everything on some kind of energy unknown to science, the result is influenced by the specific actions of the cook.
However, many people share your point of view, but I do not set myself the task of imposing a materialistic worldview on everyone around. Just clarifying my previous statement.

Good day everyone, can someone tell me what to do? I bought a dry hop starter culture on rye flour, 35g bag. According to the instructions, you need to revive the leaven by adding warm water and then 100g flour. etc..and then kneading dough, proofing and so on is provided for baking in the oven, but what about the bread maker and what kind of flour to use rye or wheat, or can you mix it? And yet, is it possible somehow to partially save this lively leaven for further renewal, or is there no point ?? Thanks to everyone who responds!
P.S. a similar question about simple rye sourdough, the producer of both "Khleborost" sourdough cultures.

Please tell me about California sourdough (Silverton).

Lyudmila (mariana-aga) says:
Feed 3 r per day for 5 days. The feeding regime during the day will be as follows:

(1) ... Stir, leave at 21-24C for 6 hours.
(2) ... Stir, leave at 21-24C for 6 hours.
(3) ... Stir, leave at 21-24C for 12 hours

This mode is 6-6-12 - can it be adjusted to fit your schedule? Can I feed, for example, 8-8-8? Or should these intervals be strictly observed?

Hello everybody! Please send me in the right direction. The crux of the matter is that there was a fermented sweet applesauce, I felt sorry to throw it away, I decided to add water and wheat flour of the 1st grade, I feed it for 3 days - water and flour, it rises, falls off, smells like a pleasant fruity smell, bubbles. How much more time to feed her, well, I want to see and try recipes on such a leaven, do not scold me, if anything.

Hello everybody! Explain to me, please! I made the leaven, today it is 5 days old. I want to try baking bread already. I realized that half can be separated for dough, and the rest must be put in the refrigerator. And if tomorrow I want to bake bread again, do I need to feed the leaven today and put it in a warm place? And if you put it in the refrigerator, then for how many days and when to feed?

[Olga]

Olgaand what is your leaven?

[Olga]

Olgaand what is your leaven?

Plain on wheat flour

Ordinary - how is it? Flour + water?

[Elena]

Elena, Olga, bake your favorite bread, don’t cope!
Just remember that he will really break up longer.
In addition, on a young sourdough, it is precisely because of a longer proofing that it can turn out sour than we would like.
I correctly understood that both of your starter cultures are based on wheat flour and water (there was just an apple for the start?).
With leaven you can SO proceed unless a specific recipe dictates otherwise.
Read on and on.
If something is not clear at all, write your recipe and what kind of sourdough you have, I will describe it using his example.
Good luck!

Please tell me about California sourdough (Silverton).

Bula, Elena, this is, of course, a rough diagram. If you cannot strictly observe it, then do as it suits you. It is possible that this will result in a slightly different sourdough, who knows? Only those who used both schemes in parallel and had the opportunity to compare.
But if you use some weekends and holidays, then at least 2-3 days out of 5 you can not violate the scheme, at least at the beginning of the process.
Good luck!

[Olga, Olechka,]

Olga, Olechka, it was me, me!)) Thank you But everything is already, the bobby is dead ((last Tuesday (I fed it very early in the morning, I was in a hurry, ran away, and there was more water than necessary. to feed everything, or to feed her again, recalculating the proportions, I added it to the fed sourdough and added more flour. Well, in general I came home, and there was not a hint of life. And it smells of sour (((I'm trying to make it for the third year. This year a record - she did not even live up to the moment when she starts the dough DO NOT lift Throw, or something, remove these leavens (something does not fuse with them

[Sveta]

Throw, or something, remove these leavens (something does not grow together with them

Sveta, calmness!
Try to work with the old test first.
Or make sourdough not with wild yeast, but with store yeast.
That is, add water (or other liquid of your choice) with flour 1: 1 by weight and throw in a couple of dry grains or a piece of live yeast, quite a bit. Leave it warm for 2 hours, and then put it in the refrigerator.
After a day, bring it to room temperature for 2 hours, then just add water / liquid and flour 1: 1 already without yeast, again for 2 hours, again in the refrigerator. And the third time the same way.
On the fourth day, take it out, warm it at room temperature for 2 hours, and according to the same scheme, knead some kind of bread dough, better shaped, not cool dough (I described above at the link).
So you will feel what the leaven is, how it "lives and works."
If you like it, you can continue this the same way, or you can do it from scratch without a starter in the form of yeast.
While the leaven is young, it is tender, capricious. And when she gains strength, almost any tricks pass with her. In my refrigerator and for 3 weeks sometimes it is hungry, and the flight is normal.
Good luck!

Try to work with the old test first

Olga, that's all the sadness is that I'm working with the old dough, and I'm fine with it. But the leaven or does not raise the dough at all, and it does raise the pancakes, but the bread does not; or it all overcoats, that is, according to the recipe, let’s say 4 hours of bread must be left to rest, and I have it for two - fewit - and was blown away And the structure is strange all the time, it feels like the dough is mixed with plasticine. In general, I do not know ... The disorder is continuous. I don’t understand something important, or I can’t grasp ... I don’t panic, I grieve and ponder whether it’s worth continuing to fight or it’s time to say “stop” to myself ... And now it’s not even bread ((

Svetochka, then try to make such a big / sourdough on shop yeast, as I have described above.
The mechanism of working with dough on a big dough turns out to be approximately similar to leavening, only a little more yeast is taken, and you take less, just a little. Then you will definitely have strong healthy yeast in your leaven, and not unknown wild ones.
When you start the dough later, do not expect that it will rise 2 times during the first fermentation, just let it stand in a warm place for 2 hours, no matter how much it rises, and immediately mold the bread, and do not be afraid to upset it at the same time.
Cover it in the oven under a light bulb for 3.5-4 hours. Here already look, so that the distance is normal, as it should be in terms of volume, well, to be a little less. If it rises faster than according to the recipe, then don't wait any longer, put it on baked goods.
If it rises very quickly, then lower the temperature during proofing. 26-28 degrees is quite enough. And less is possible.
And put it in a well preheated oven.
Sometimes, if I am in a hurry, and the proofing has not yet reached the desired condition, I can put everything cold and warm it all together.
It is better to bake sourdough bread for about 2/3 of the total baking time from the beginning under a lid or with abundant steam at about 230 * C, then remove / ventilate the lid quickly, reduce the temperature.
Good luck!

Olyush, I'll try to deduce it again. Rye. If it doesn't work again, I'll try your way. You are a craftswoman - hand out magic dumplings

Hello everybody. Tell me please. I finally brought out a rye sourdough on rye wallpaper flour, for the first time it turned out, according to Anna Kitaeva's recipe. It is worth 4 days, walks great. Now a question. Is it possible to bake ordinary rye-wheat bread from peeled flour on it without overfeeding? Thanks in advance to everyone who answers.

Is it possible to bake ordinary rye-wheat bread from peeled flour on it without overfeeding?

Sure you may!!!

Hello everyone! I'm a beginner) I was very fond of baking bread, and you have so interesting here! It was possible, from the 50th time, to finally bring out the leaven. Question to the professionals, advise what literature / authors you can read in order to go a little deeper into the topic of baking (exactly with leaven, but not with yeast)? This is such an art that I do not have enough answers on the Internet, I want to refer to the original source, so to speak) Thank you in advance!

Oh, I'm sorry, it turns out there is a whole topic about this already ...

Good day everyone, help with baking bread, I will bake for the first time. They made wine, part of the wine sediment dried up, I don't know what to do next.

Good day to all Bakeries! Like most of the questions asked here, I am new to sourdough baking. I came across rye sourdough, which is carried out with the use of SUGAR. It is fed with rye flour and sugar, stored in the refrigerator, 100% humidity. There is a YouTube channel where they are called "fruit", but there are no fruits, only water, flour and sugar. So I wonder if there is such a way of keeping the leaven? What yeast does it start? Is there anything in it that is not healthy?

Is there such a way of keeping the leaven? What kind of yeast does it start? Is there anything in it that is not healthy?

The question is, of course, interesting
If the leaven lives and works well, then any method has a place to be.
Yeast in her starts those that she picked up from the air, from your hands, which before the establishment of the leaven settled in flour, ...,
And if there were several types of them, then those that won in the struggle with their brothers (after all, as a rule, the strongest survive and by right of the winner make the ax to everyone else) and will develop further.
It is difficult to argue about their benefits, because there are many opinions about fermentation products in general, and yeast in particular.
About sugar. It promotes fermentation and increases the alcohol content. I can't say much about the benefits or harms either, because did not conduct scientific research on this topic.
In fact, you can find a lot of information with a negative point of view, and with protection and even praise.
Therefore, it is up to you to decide, in any case.
If, however, fears overpower, use commercial yeast. On their basis, you can make a kind of dough with any moisture convenient for you, and then lead it as a leaven.
As for fruit yeast, if you are interested in this topic, take a look at our forum thread about liquid yeast. They are really made with fruits.
Good luck!

Thank you! I still haven't figured out which button to press to thank you for your answer ...

I still haven't figured out which button to press to thank you for your answer ...

You can thank any member of the forum using the "thank" button in any of his messages. This button is on the left under your nickname and ava.
In addition, if the need arises, you can write a personal message, using the icon (), which is in the same place.
Good luck!

Gyyy!
Asked for

On their basis, you can make a kind of dough with any moisture convenient for you, and then lead it as a leaven.

Olga, can you tell me where to find information on this topic?

[by Viki]

Olga, can you tell me where to find information on this topic?

Check out this thread French traditional sourdough (thick) and other leavens of this by Viki

Dear starters! Is there not such a kind person among you who keeps the leaven (in Moscow) and is ready to share a little bit? Ready to buy, pledge to groom and cherish
At one time, I grew leavens several times and baked them on them, now there is no such possibility. Suddenly I realized that I really want sourdough bread May strength and other benefits be with you !!!

[Natasha]

Natasha, I have eternal rye leaven. If you want, I can share. Write in a personal

I have wheat KM 100%, I can treat it.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, Olga VB, girls, thanks for responding!

[Natasha]

Natasha, Sibelis, I periodically bring in sourdough
Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)
She is not confusing and economical. And you can lead it as an eternal, until you get bored)))

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, yes, I started the sourdough several times, always successfully. It's just that now (temporarily) living conditions are such that I don't really want to, and I don't feel any inspiration in myself. When the sourdough is mature, it is less dependent on the environment.
I’ll move, settle down, I will definitely have a little animal). Or maybe it will not be needed, if the donated one will take root, I will move with it

Don't throw your slippers at me.I personally expressed my opinion about the starter cultures.

Admin, thank you and deep bow !!! I registered on the site after reading your posts. So much interesting and useful information !!! Finally, everything settled in my head)). I have never baked sourdough bread yet: I was afraid to start, because (due to my special talent) I could not understand the feeding system. You have put everything on the shelves so that the fear has passed, and now I am absolutely ready for experiments. I'll start with the classics and think that everything will work out. Thanks again!!!