Starter cultures - in questions and answers

No, there’s a whole story)) At first I did 1: 1 in volume, she didn’t react in any way for five days, she had a little bubbles, but didn’t grow (she fed her daily). Then I took 100 g of this mixture, so to speak, and added yesterday 100 g of flour and 100 g of water by weight, and last night it even more than doubled in volume, I stirred it and left it. This morning she doubled the same size, I interfered with her again. And now I have it and I don’t know what to do with it further, you can put it in the refrigerator or feed it more.

Yeah, now it's clearer. Do you have rye or wheat flour? It's just that I lead rye sourdough, I didn't deal with wheat.
Judging by the rye, it looks like you did it. Especially if the sourdough has a pleasant sour-fruity smell.
Probably, it did not rise well due to the fact that it was too liquid, all the bubbles evaporated.
It's too late to bake today, feed it and put it back in the refrigerator tomorrow, and the rest in bread!

Rye sourdough. I’m not particularly familiar with smells, but I don’t disgust. And now in what proportion?

And also, can you tell me if I will be able to bake bread from whole grain flour with sourdough in a bread maker? I have redmond 1919, there is a "whole grain" mode for 4 hours.

[by weight]

And now in what proportion?

Always feed in the proportion of flour: water 1: 1 by weight... Then you will have the so-called sourdough of 100% moisture, which is very convenient when baking bread. You can count any recipe for sourdough.
It is believed that the amount of top dressing should not be less than the amount of starter culture. For example, if you have 50 grams of starter, then when feeding you need to put at least 50 grams of flour and the same amount of water. But if the recipe requires more ferment, then you can immediately calculate how much you need and put in the appropriate amount of flour and water. Or feed it several times, which is perhaps more useful for a young leaven.

Will I be able to bake sourdough wholegrain breads in a bread maker?

Here, I'm afraid, will have to tinker. While the leaven is young, it is much less active in raising bread than the yeast. It is also less predictable. Today I raised bread in three hours, and tomorrow - only in five. My first sourdough bread took 8 hours to ferment. You will have to operate with a combination of programs - separately kneading, supervised proofing and separately baking. Is it possible in your bread maker? Over time, the leaven will get stronger, become more active and stable, then it will be possible to pick up some of the existing programs for it or program your own

How to feed several times? And when will it be considered strengthened? How long does it take to knead? How many times? Or knead once and then just proof?

How to feed several times?

Everyone does it differently, climb here in sourdough topics. But, if without nuances - take out the starter in the evening - feed it with an amount of flour equal to the weight of the starter and the same amount of water - feed it again in the morning - again in the evening - bake bread in the morning.
Then all sorts of nuances begin about the amount of flour for feeding, temperature and other things. Here, to be honest, I cannot be of any use to you.

when will it be considered strong?

Well, in half a year ... But seriously - if you regularly bake with sourdough and time the proofing time, you will see for yourself. Because everyone is different. I bake once a week and feed once - it took longer for me.Those who use the sourdough more actively will have everything stabilized faster.
Regarding the time and number of mixes - you need to look at the specific recipe, usually all this is indicated there. But in general, it's impossible to say

Thank you very much for your quick and clear answers))) I will experiment. ..

[Elena82]

Elena82, about the moisture content of your starter culture: it is advisable to bring it all the same to 100% (Svetlana explained the reason to you). Now you have some other%

At first I made 1: 1 by volume ... Then I took 100 g of this mixture, so to speak, and yesterday added 100 g of flour and 100 g of water by weight

, that is, you initially had about 156% moisture, then you took 100g from this mixture (about 39g of flour and 61g of water), then you mixed something else with something (how many times?), i.e. . now you have an incomprehensible %% humidity. And if you consider that some recipes are critical to these proportions, then you can then figure out for a long time why something did not work out for you when you already start baking bread.
That is, it is now desirable for you to either bring the humidity to 100% or just redo everything.
Good luck!

And how to bring it to 100%?

You will have to remember arithmetic, as well as analyze what, with what and in what proportions you interfered.
Above, I gave approximate figures that you could get based on your messages. But this is all very speculative and more for an example, not for calculations.
I don’t know what kind of glasses you have, how much your flour can fit in by weight, what moisture it has, with what and how you mixed all this in the future, etc.
For 100% moisture, the result should be the same amount of flour and liquid in the leaven.

And how to bring it to 100%?

I just thought ... Well, it's a pity to throw it away and start over. And it's hard to count. Rather, it is not difficult if all moves are recorded. And from memory - you will definitely be mistaken.
It might be easier to do this:
Take a little from your starter, well, for example 20 grams. Feed 100g flour + 100g water. Of course, it will not be 100% humidity, but closer.
Then again - take 20 grams of the resulting sourdough and feed it the same way. Even closer to 100%
After a few dressings, it will be possible to assume that you have a starter culture of 100% moisture + - a certain error.
In the meantime, use this incomprehensible moisture content - carefully monitor the bun (unless, of course, you bake pure rye bread) and, if necessary, add flour when kneading the dough.

Oh, it seems like I want to put in the leaven, but how do you read you ... It's terribly done.

[Irishka]

IrishkaDo not be afraid, it is not the gods who burn the pots.
Choose any recipe you like from the Sourdough theme - and go! Better start with rye ("eternal" or semi-finished rye) and do not rush between topics, chose - and do not get off until it works.
And everything will be!

Oh, it seems like I want to put in the leaven, but how do you read you ... It's terribly done.

Of course horror!
So you quit reading, otherwise you’ll end up in a corner
Go already knead the eternal

Today I baked rye on fruit sourdough - what a tasty treat !!!! it is completely different, it has not really risen, the crumb is dense, but at the same time tender, fragrant ... I still have young people at all. tomorrow I will bake Borodinsky on eternal rye sourdough, she is already a month and a half, active, a couple of times the bread ran with her))), initially there was sourness, now not. and in Borodino it is desirable. in this regard, the question is, in many recipes, apple cider vinegar, sometimes balsamic, is added to the dough. does it harm the yeast? (recipes with regular yeast, but I want to use sourdough). or how to achieve sourness in Borodino?

[Polina370]

Polina370, yeast likes an acidic environment (of course, within reasonable limits), so adding sour milk, dry wine, vinegar and other acidifiers to bread improves the quality of the bread. And that is why there are leavens - in the acid produced by lactic acid bacteria, only yeast survive, and any other byaka dies.
To make your Borodinsky sour, choose a recipe for dough. While the dough ferments, and then the dough, the acid will have time to accumulate.In general, Borodinsky should not be very sour, it is rather sweetish, but if you like it, you can either hold your sourdough for a longer time before kneading, or let the dough stand longer. I somehow forgot about my dough and instead of 3 hours, I had it at 6. The bread turned out to be normal, came up, rose, but was sour than usual.

Girls, due to the fact that industrial yeast is harmful, I want to learn how to bake bread (wheat and pies, and if it turns out well, then I can decide on rye) with sourdough. But I just can't choose which one to do better. I have already tried twice to make rye according to sarychev, but she did not go, I do not have time to serve it and it is a pity that I have to throw out a lot of food, and it is difficult to find a warm place in the house. Advise a leaven so that you can bake bread infrequently, about 1 time in 4 days, so that it is not very difficult to keep it (it is cool at home, 22 degrees, there is no place to keep it warm), I am old in I kept a slow cooker, periodically turning on the heating, but she didn't really like it there, I never got it ready.
Girls, you know everything about sourdough here, help the beginner where to start.

[anuta-k2002]

anuta-k2002, try this simplest hop starter:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=413702.0, you will not go wrong. Fast, reliable and hassle-free. I also tried a lot, but settled on this one. Happy choice!

This is the kind of bread I get with this sourdough, which I grew in 2-3 days in December last year, my sourdough is only 2 months old, but it works.

Hops are bought at the pharmacy. I bake any bread on it: rye-wheat, wheat-rye and just wheat. The topic is a very attentive and sympathetic author, helps with the removal of the leaven.

The simplest hop starter:

Maria, is there honey in the leaven, is it felt in the finished product? is there a honey flavor?

[anuta-k2002]

anuta-k2002, in my opinion the eternal most universal ( https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@Itemid=126&option=com_smf&topic=41.0 ). It can be removed both on rye and wheat. But wheat is better to take 1 or 2 varieties.
I grew my last wheat according to the recipe not from this site. If you need a link, I can throw it in a personal. But the principle is the same as that of the eternal.
I store both (both rye and wheat) in the refrigerator door (I have 11-12 degrees there) and bake bread with them about once every 3 days. They feel great, there is almost no care)) after removal, nothing superfluous remains and is not thrown away. After the refrigerator, they have even better lifting power than when they were fed 2 times a day and lived at room temperature.

Maria, is there honey in the leaven, is it felt in the finished product? is there a honey flavor?

No, it is not felt and there is no honey aftertaste either.

I store it in the refrigerator door (I have 11-12 degrees there)

how did you determine that there is such a temperature?
I have a Samsung refrigerator, the temperature is set there, for example, 5 degrees (with it, food is best preserved) - so I thought that in the whole refrigerator there is 5 degrees. I am somehow stupid to set higher, I'm afraid that then I will dilute the yeast not only in sourdough, but also on all products.
It turns out that you feed your sourdough only before baking bread, conventionally, once every 3 days, right?
Please give me a link to your starter.

how did you determine that there is such a temperature?
I have a Samsung refrigerator, the temperature is set there, for example, 5 degrees (with it, food is best preserved) - so I thought that in the whole refrigerator there is 5 degrees. I am somehow stupid to set higher, I'm afraid that then I will dilute the yeast not only in sourdough, but also on all products.
It turns out that you feed your sourdough only before baking bread, conventionally, once every 3 days, right?
Please give me a link to your starter.

My temperature is set too, it costs +8. When I put it lower, the products were icy (I feel uncomfortable, for example, drinking such kefir). And in the door I measured the temperature with a thermometer.
I feed them before baking. I take it out, let it warm up for half an hour, first I refresh it (I feed it in a small proportion), then I feed it with a large volume to the required amount.

Girls, tell me, please! She made eternal sourdough on rye flour. She did not behave exactly as described in the recipe.At first, for two days I did not rise at all, on the third day I became a little bubbly, began to rise. I fed for two more days. The smell was some kind of alcohol or something ... not disgusting, not very sharp. I did it for the first time, so it was difficult to understand whether it was right or not!
I baked bread - rose, crust and taste like a real Ukrainian! The roof fell a little and the crumb is very porous, so spongy. A little that alcoholic (or yeast flavor) is felt in the bread. It seems to me that this should not be! Did I do something wrong? Answer please! )))

The leaven isn't ready yet, can it? It should smell like fruit, and it exudes an alcoholic smell when it is not yet ripe. Or, if it is ripe (but why such a smell then?), The dough was overexposed (about a day?).
I think it's because of the unripe sourdough, after all. I still had to hold her, grow her.

[Wera]

Wera, but it seems to me that the bread was overstayed. If the roof falls, then either the water needs to be reduced or the proofing time. But the smell of alcohol appeared when I forgot about the dough and she stopped. True, the bread itself after baking with alcohol did not smell already

Ira, Thank you for your answer! I baked without dough. For some reason, the first time I was scared of this method! )) Maybe that's why there was a smack ...
I decided to make a new sourdough, while I put the first in the refrigerator. The second one behaved according to all the rules, after the first feeding, I began to grow wheat from one part of it, and rye from the other.
Wheat was already ready yesterday, baked bread according to the recipe "French sourdough bread in a bread machine." I was very worried while the process was going on, and suddenly it would not rise! ))) But bread even got out of the bucket! very high, fluffy crumb, crisp crust! Tasty!
The rye also rose well yesterday, but I fed it again. This morning she had already fallen a little, the smell was quite strong. I decided to feed - after a couple of hours I got up with a hat, the smell is sour, pleasant. She made a dough for three and a half hours, she came up, got up, bubbled. I was afraid to keep going, now bread is being baked according to the recipe "Universal bread with coriander and caraway seeds in a bread machine" I'm very worried, I'm waiting for the result! Hope this one turns out better! )))

Dear bakers, hello everyone) I have been baking with sourdough for a long time, but decent bread has become relatively recent)) A couple of questions are ripe, I will be glad to your answers)
1) I did not develop a relationship with rye sourdough at all. I used starter cultures many times according to different recipes - the result was depressing. The sourdough didn't want to raise the bread at all, despite its excellent bubbly appearance and smell. The only bread that rose perfectly and was edible was Riga bread with flax flour refreshing the rye sourdough. The sourdough was a semi-finished rye product. Also out of desperation, I started a wheat sourdough on a sprouted grain. The sourdough turned out to be the most gorgeous, the bread came out the first time. I baked a bunch of different wheat breads, but I still want rye) Riga is already tired. And I overfed some of my wheat sourdough into rye. Delicious rye bread began to turn out, finally) Can I do this? For some reason, I have a memory that rye leaven can be overfed into wheat, but vice versa. Where I read it, I can't find it. Or am I confusing something?
2) my two-year-old child eats wheat sourdough, scrapes it off the jar with a spoon and eats it))) isn't it harmful?)))

Unfortunately, the site does not allow me to insert links to recipes ((

[Sauza]

Sauza, I look at your avatar and I'm even afraid to answer)))
I'm not a guru in sourdough questions, but if my opinion is interesting, then ... if you overfeed the sourdough from wheat to rye and you get an excellent bread, this already suggests that you can do this))) I overfeed mine too when I forgot to put off the rye on the starter.
At the expense of the child eating sourdough, it seems to me there is nothing criminal in this))) as they say, the sourdough contains lactic acid bacteria and yeast, which are normal intestinal microflora.Previously, leavened kvass was made and drunk raw, there were the same live microorganisms. It is believed that such kvass is very useful.

[Madam]

Madam, Something definitely overexposed, most likely the leaven. The second time I caught her on the rise, but not at the very peak and the smell was pleasant. Great bread turned out! I just can't figure out how to insert a photo here, otherwise I would boast! The taste is exactly what I dreamed of!
The roof of the bread was flat, like a ruler, not convex. Is it because there is a lot of water? I made exactly according to the recipe, the dough was thin.

Good day to all. I have been reading the site for a long time and doing a lot of things, but I have never written. But now I have a reason. The old sourdough was gone and it was necessary to urgently grow a new rye - the panasonics multicooker helped me a lot with the yogurt program. On the program, yogurt is maintained at a temperature of 40 degrees for 12 hours. You pour water into a bowl, put a glass jar mixed with sourdough in the bowl and watch. Under such heavenly conditions, after 3 hours it was bubbling, I fed, after 3 hours there was already a small hat, and so on. As a result, I fed it 6-7 times a day and the next day there was almost ready-made sourdough, but I grew it for another day. As a result, in 2 days a good strong leaven, according to the recipe of an eternal leaven. I baked rye baguettes (small 150-200g each) with sesame seeds and caraway seeds, rose very well. I baked from fresh sourdough in a safe way, only for proofing in the oven for an hour. It's just that someone will come in handy for a very fast way of growing a snack. For the sourdough I took rye wallpaper flour and water, nothing else was added.

Hello,

colleagues, help me solve my misunderstanding.
I start making bread with sourdough - the dough increases 2.5 - 3 times in 5 hours. That is, the leaven seems to be good and works.
But when I make dough on this dough, it rises for more than 10 hours and then does not rise to the end - the bread turns out to be dense.
And I noticed that for the first two or three hours the dough bun just spreads out of a ball into a cake (well, not quite into a cake, into such a swollen hemisphere), but practically does not rise

What could be? If the dough has risen normally - the yeast from the sourdough seems to be included in the work, and then it seems to fall asleep

Proofing dough and dough I do at 28 degrees.

Thanks for answers)

[Ilya]

Ilya, so hard to say. What is your bread, rye or wheat? Can you write a recipe for baking?
Perhaps the point is not in the sourdough, but in the violation of the flour-liquid balance, the conditions of proofing and baking, etc.

[Svetlana]

Wheat bread.
hop sourdough, from this topic: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=413702.0

Dough and dough are proofed in a bread maker - accordingly, drafts, I hope, do not affect
about the growth of the dough-dough, I can look in the HP window.

Dough:
sourdough 50 g - 60 g
water 250 ml
flour VS 220 g
sugar
proofing time - 5 hours, 28 degrees
during this time the dough increases by 2.5-3 times

dough:
dough
flour VS 250 g
sunflower oil 1 tbsp. l.
sugar, salt.
proofing 28 degrees.

violation of the balance of flour - liquid, proofing conditions

Svetlana, if not a secret, how can disturbances in the balance of flour-water affect? And what violations of proofing can be, if everything happens with the dough normally, but under the same conditions with the dough - very slowly?

And how much starter culture and what moisture? Is the gingerbread man normal when kneading? It just looks like the dough is too tight and takes too long to get frustrated.
In general, if the leaven is 100% moisture, then the balance in the recipe is observed.

And how much starter culture and what moisture? Is the gingerbread man normal when kneading? It just looks like the dough is too tight

The sourdough drips off the spoon, but not like water. Probably, it can be characterized as sour cream in consistency.

The gingerbread man, in my opinion, is normal. That is, it sticks slightly to your fingers when you take it out.

That is, you propose to make the dough more liquid, with less flour, do I understand correctly?

No, then that's not the point. If the starter is so thin, the dough will not be too tough.
I think you should go to the specialized topic on your sourdough, there they will help you faster. I have eternal rye sourdough and I bake rye bread on it and it is difficult to judge wheat bread

[Ilya]

Ilya, I'm far from special, it was the same for me. But it was not the time of the proofing that confused me, but the fact that during this time the dough became acidic and the bread was, to put it mildly, unpleasant. I did not find the reason, I brought out other leavens. As a result, now I have a sourdough that raises the dough normally and the dough is proofed. But I bake bread more moist than your recipe. Try to increase the amount of water, but at the same time develop gluten so that the dough does not spread at all. If it does not help, then the matter is in the leaven, in my opinion.

[Ilya]

Ilya, I'm not a very experienced baker, but still, it seems to me, there is not enough water. I'm 400 gr. flour I add 260 water. Apart from the sourdough, you get 490 flour, and only 250 water. The dough is stiff, therefore it rises slowly. And the leaven is not enough for this amount of dough.
Good bread is obtained according to the recipe of this website - French sourdough in a bread maker - there is a very precise combination of all components. The link is not inserted.

Good afternoon everyone! Immediately I apologize that before creating this post, I did not master many branches. About 3 years ago, when I had more time to search for answers on my own, I read many forums, experimented, but I capitulated. Now I really want to bake my own sourdough bread again and hope for help. Then, 3 years ago, I had a self-grown rye sourdough, I baked rye-wheat bread, but the crumb came out damp (the dough rose well, but fell off in the oven). This time I decided to take the sourdough from a friend who is doing well. True, the leaven came to me through third hands. This is how she looks 5 minutes after feeding

It bothers me that it is liquid and without bubbles, but it smells good (either kvass, or kefir) and raises the dough. But the crumb is quite sticky again. Although we eat this bread, we want a different quality. So first of all, I need to figure out if there is a problem with my new sourdough and how to fix it. Photo of bread for completeness.

Zhenya, how detailed and clearly described and even showed the whole process. I will wait for the answers with you. I myself am trying to learn how to bake delicious bread and understand the technology of the process. But so far, only pancakes are tasty.

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, maybe someone from the pro will answer you differently, but as for me, the sourdough is liquid, not like 100% moisture. And if you bake bread according to a recipe of 100%, then the dough turns out to be liquid, respectively, when baking, the top falls off, and the crumb is moist. And the photo of the test says the same, it's too spread out for you

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, maybe someone from the pro will answer you differently, but as for me, the sourdough is liquid, not like 100% moisture.

I feed her 2 tbsp. l. flour + 4 tbsp. l. water - how much% comes out? I bake according to the recipe of the girl who has grown this leaven - 2 glasses of flour per glass of water + 3-4 tbsp. l. sourdough, I tried to change the proportions, it did not affect the result ... thanks for the response!

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, did not quite understand - feed one part flour, two parts water (2 tbsp flour + 4 tbsp water)? Or is it two parts flour - one part water (2 glasses of flour for 1 glass of water)?

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, did not quite understand - feed one part flour, two parts water (2 tbsp flour + 4 tbsp water)? Or is it two parts flour - one part water (2 glasses of flour for 1 glass of water)?

in spoons - top dressing, and in glasses - recipe for bread dough

It turns out you have a liquid starter culture. 100% is for 1 part flour - 1 part water. I have one. It also depends on what kind of flour you feed. When I fed with premium flour, it was thin. I switched to the first grade - it became thicker and rises better and the dough fits better.
Another question - do you put a starter in the dough?

Another question - do you put a starter in the dough?

no

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, in my opinion, the batter still gives such an unbaked crumb. If you say the dough was made thicker and the problem has not disappeared, then you need to look inside and out. How to feed, what recipe, baking time and temperature. Ask the girl who used the recipe for the flour. Try to repeat on her flour, maybe your flour moisture is different or the flour quality is lower

Clear. I bake rye on rye sourdough. On wheat, only wheat. Rye is very thick, like putty. Wheat - like pancake dough, does not drip from the spoon