Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Just take your time. Do not put the dough in a too warm place, 25 degrees are enough. And do not expect the dough to rise too much. It is enough to double it, otherwise it can overoxidize. Then molding and again, not too zealous proofing. In the oven, everything will then reach the desired condition.
And when the sourdough is ripe, it will be possible to ferment at higher temperatures.
I hope you know that when kneading, you need to roughly mix everything except salt and fat, that is, how to moisten the flour, then let the dough rest for 20 minutes, then add salt and fats, knead well until elasticity, and then rise, forming, proofing, baking.
Of course, if the recipe does not involve a different technology.
Good luck!

I bake in a bread maker. When I baked with the previous sourdough in the French setting it worked well.

I wonder what happens. Be sure to share.

Of course!

Posted Thursday, 24 Nov 2016 11:17 am

Here's a loaf of bread! Smells tasty! I would say dried fruits! There is a small crack on top.

For some reason, the photos turned upside down.
Fixed!

Added Thursday, November 24, 2016 1:42 pm

It tastes kilowatt bread, but you can eat. Perhaps a different recipe is needed. Or time for the leaven to gain strength and taste.

They advised to contact here. Don't scold me hard, - I guess that this question has probably been discussed more than once, - maybe I haven't found it ... Why is it tearing the roof off rye bread? Direct in the right direction - under-standing, not enough liquid, or something else? I bake pure rye on the "eternal" leaven, about which Luka wrote on January 18, 2007. in his topic about "eternal" leaven.
200g sourdough, 300g whole rye flour, 10-20g Nordic whole rye flakes (when available), 20g fermented rye malt, a teaspoon of salt, a tablespoon of honey. And that's all. Separated for 2-3 hours. Then 40 minutes at 200 degrees and 20 minutes at 180 degrees. At the bottom of the oven is a baking sheet of water. And I also noticed that in the second half of the process the loaf "sits down" a little. At the beginning of baking, when I put it in the oven, it happens higher. Previously, this was not like this ... (Help with advice ... Please!

under-settled, not enough liquid, or something else

In fact, there may be these reasons.
Do you heat up a bowl of water with the oven? That is, to put in steam. You can also bake the first 2/3 of the time under the lid.
You also need to sprinkle some water from pshikalka before planting in the oven.
You can also help the dough to tear nicely by using cuts.
At first I knead and let it develop for at least 2.5-3 hours. Then I shape it and give it at least 2.5-3 hours to distance. I try the dough for maturity with my finger (so that the hole is tightened, but not very quickly). Before planting in the oven, I generously spray, bake under the lid, first at 230 * C for 25 minutes, then 15 minutes at 180 * C.
but I always do it with a small addition of wheat and any other flour, pure rye does not go with us.
Are you talking about a mold or a hearth?
And what's your recipe? are you using too much starter in the batch?
By the way, about honey. It is almost not felt in these pastries. Try to extinguish it with a little baking soda (0.5 tsp), the aroma will be brighter.
Good luck!

Olga, I will answer your questions point by point
- I put the baking sheet in the oven with boiling water, bake without a lid in a round Teflon mold as for Easter cake
- about the amount of sourdough, - it seems like I used to always put 200g.
- and honey, you think, can be mixed with half a teaspoon of soda?
In general, as if another problem came to the fore ... ((At first, the dough fits (it rises, as far as it can rise with a pure rye composition.) And even in the oven, as I said already, it grows a little and breaks the roof. then, at the end of baking and in the process of cooling (I usually leave it to cool down for the night, it "shrinks" for hours and then it turns out on the cut this is such a depressing picture ... (((

And this is how a whole loaf looks like (

Experts, help with advice!
Because rye-wheat, which of course is easier to work with, is not suitable for me ... My son cannot wheat ... ((

[a.ver]

You don't need to mix honey with soda, just add soda with flour, it will find the honey itself during baking.
From the photo, the bread is clearly not baked or then damp.
Try to understand the baking mode first.
1. After kneading, roll the dough into a ball, grease it without fanaticism. oil, let it rest under a film in the oven with a light bulb for about 2.5 - 3 hours.
2. Place the matched dough in a round shape with a well-shaped bun, and in a rectangular shape with a loaf (roll).
Return under plastic wrap to oven with light bulb for 3 hours.
3. Remove the workpiece from the oven, generously sprinkle it with water and put it in another warm place (I leave it on the stove, it is warm, as a rule) while the oven is heating up, and turn on the oven itself for 20-30 minutes to 230 * C. Preheat the oven to 230 * C, control the temperature with a thermometer.
It is advisable to choose a lid for the form, to which the bread will not grow during baking. If you can't find the lid, place a pan of water on the bottom of the oven before starting to warm up the oven.
If there is a lid, there is no need to put water down.
4. After the oven has warmed up, place the dough in a mold under the lid. If not, then with steam.
After 15-20-25 minutes (depending on the volume - this is 400-550-700 g of flour, respectively), remove the lid / remove the steam and switch to 180 * C. bake for another 7-11-15 minutes.
5. Take it out of the oven immediately, remove it from the mold, put it on the wire rack, cover with a linen or cotton towel until it cools completely.
FSE!

This is your homework
Write about the results, boom to think further. Just do everything clearly.
Good luck!

Added Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 03:32

a.ver, Oleg, is your son allergic to gluten?
Look in the tyrnet which flour does not contain it. There are many such articles, for example:
🔗
🔗
That is, you can add, for example, rice flour or corn flour to the bread. Of course, there may also be some allergens in there that are not suitable for your son, so you need to be careful, but gluten is not there.
By the way, rye also contains gluten. And it turns out that your son can?
It is just that you can make your bread more varied with a different flour. Well, sweet pastries, at least on holidays, will not hurt a child.
By the way, you have not written how much and what kind of liquid you use when mixing.
And further. Instead of Nordic flakes, you can and, probably, even more beneficially use bran, for example, oatmeal. Although some believe that they also contain gluten. Here the doctors do not agree.
For example, according to the second link, they first write that oats are prohibited, and just below that oat flour is allowed

Dear experts, help me figure it out. I have a fairly confident starter, which I keep in the refrigerator. I bake it once a week on store-bought whole-grain wheat flour. Recently I started using my own whole grain flour (I bought a mill for homemade flour). Now the leaven under the same conditions (without additional feeding, lives in the refrigerator) began to have a sour smell, which was not there before. What can be wrong? Thanks for the answer. Sorry if something like this has already been discussed ..
Happy New Years and Merry Christmas to everyone!)

[Hope]

Hope, welcome to the forum!
If possible, in more detail: What is the moisture, what liquid, the sourness is pleasant (it should be in any sourdough), or rather the type of sour, the sourdough remains homogeneous or stratified, the bread has become worse, better or has not changed, how you use it, etc. etc.

Good evening.Tell me, is bread always based on wheat leaven (French), with a taste of sour-milk products? There is nothing like that in the composition of bread, no milk, no whey, no cottage cheese.
There is no such flavor on rye sourdough.
And on one, and on the other leaven the bread sour. Although it rejuvenated it, and after feeding it was not at the peak of maturity. It's sour anyway.

Although not answered here, I will try to ask one more question.
Can the sourdough acidify, rise poorly on its own, not raise bread without the help of yeast due to the fact that I have to use antibiotic ointment for years? I hope someone knowledgeable will answer.

[Natasha]

Natasha, excuse me, I saw your question, but did not dare to answer, because I do not conduct wheat leaven. It is due to the fact that she is very capricious, over-acidifies, does not raise bread well and requires dances with tambourines, but the bread on her still sour.
But since no one else answers, I will express my thoughts.
Since the starter is a collection of yeast and lactic acid bacteria - the taste of lactic acid products can probably be present - for people with a sensitive sense of smell.
As for the antibiotic ointment, I doubt that this can significantly affect the result. You don't work with your leaven with your bare hands smeared with ointment.
Rather, the sourdough may not like flour. What kind of flour do you use? Whole grain is better, it has more nutrients for the development of microorganisms. Try changing the brand of flour, pick one that makes the leaven feel good.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I use flour 1 grade, we always take in bags. I read that the c / s is not suitable for a Frenchwoman.
The fact is that rye also does not raise. There I used the c / s, and I just bought rye from a bag and in packs, Oleika (or Aleika, I don't remember exactly now) from us, Altai flour.

Added Wednesday 25 Jan 2017 10:57 AM

In general, sourness turns out to be impossible on rye sourdough. This despite the fact that I calmly eat lemons without sugar ...

Natasha, come here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=389522.0 read about sourness

[Arka]

Arka, Thank you. I have read this more than once. But so far, nothing comes out. Already relatives say, it's enough to feed sour food and harass products ...

I read that the c / c is not suitable for a Frenchwoman

On rye sourdough, sourness is generally obtained, impossible

Then maybe try another leaven?
Here about the hop girls write that there is no sourness in the finished bread.

The simplest hop starter (marika33)

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I've already tried it. There is sour, but not so strong. I was fine, but the family didn't like the hop taste.

[ang-kay]

Well, you spit on this wheat leaven.
Bake rye in sourdough, where sourness is appropriate (and for my taste it is generally necessary), and wheat - in long doughs - and the taste is wonderful and does not sour.
True, you can still consult with Angela ang-kay, on her forum there are a lot of breads based on wheat leaven, and she wrote that she does not like sourness in wheat bread. How does she do it?

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, but on rye it is not possible at all!
We do not like sour breads either.

I meant that not wheat, but rye breads were baked on sourdough. But if you don't like the sourness there, then the sourdough is simply not your product. Or Angela will reveal to you the secret of the golden key

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I already think that this is not mine. Now I put Borodinsky in accordance with GOST, if you don't like him, then probably everything!
In general, I read that sick people should not be engaged in leavening - it will not work.

sick people should not be engaged in leavening - it will not work

Well, that's superstition. In my opinion, the quality of the sourdough is 90% dependent on the quality of the flour, because the yeast that is in the flour will live in your sourdough and no other yeast will take root there. Well, and of course, your neatness, regular feeding, keeping clean.
And my favorite Borodino is this one:

Borodino bread, according to the recipe of 1939 (Mikulishna)

By the way, many who baked it in it just lack sourness, it really turns out to be sweetish.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I took the recipe with less sourdough, and so almost twins.

[Natasha]

Natasha, good luck!

Already baked. Failed, probably too much water, although the bun is normal. I have been baking bread for 6 years.

Maybe it stopped? My starter cultures are often overstayed, I want everything to rise more
And even a bun was? According to my favorite recipe, the bun does not work, so, some kind of putty in consistency ...
Now we stand it a little longer and taste it, I hope you will like everything and the sourdough in your family will still take root

Probably stopped. Well, not quite a bun, but as usual rye. I bake in xn. When he was kneading, a bun with a comma, and then spread over the bucket

Girls, please tell me about the leaven. On Thursday (02.02) in the evening I put 100 ml of water + 100 g of flour, the next day (almost unchanged) I fed it the same way (100 + 100). On Saturday (04.02), the smell went, foamed, fed (100 + 100). Today, I opened it, there is water on top, there are no bubbles, the smell is like apple wine (quite pleasant). Completed. How many days to feed her, how to track that everything is going well. Thank you very much for your reply. I just started doing it for the first time, and a very unfamiliar process.

[natalinka25]

natalinka25, if the smell is already fruity, pleasant, then everything is going as it should. You write that there are no bubbles, but does it rise? In principle, I would feed it for a couple of days for the fortress and then bake something.
Of course, she is still young, weak, the bread will take a long time to rise, my first bread was proofed for 8 hours (rye), and now two hours are enough

Please tell me, I just started baking sourdough bread, I really liked it, I will continue further. One baked rye, it is of course sooo sour, all the household refused it, but wheat is tasty and not sour at all.
My question is if I was taught to use and grow the leaven correctly.
I took rye wallpaper whole grain flour, added warm water, wrapped it in a towel. I take it out every day and add a drop of warm water and premium rye flour. The first three days I added honey and sugar, now I won't, let the bacteria learn to extract glucose from flour themselves. I keep the leaven in a towel in the kitchen in the closet, when I turn 40, I will put it in a jar with holes in the refrigerator. Further some questions ???
1. How to feed it correctly, get it once a week, add water and how much flour?
2. How long does it need to stay warm?
3. Do you need sugar and honey?
4. If I will bake wheat bread, then I need to take rye in a separate jar and start feeding it with wheat flour. That is, store two leavens or feed my rye two days before cooking with wheat and that's it?
Correct me please.

Open Topics by the name of the starter culture, all these questions have long been answered in each specific leaven.

Tell me, I'm preparing an eternal leaven.
Today is the 5th day, the consistency is porous, we go up, then it goes down, but the smell is very unpleasant, like mash (I remember this smell very well from my childhood) - bitter and alcoholic.
Anything you can fix? Or is it better to throw it out and start over !?

[kollenochka]

kollenochka, I suspect that you will now be pointed to a couple of links and will .... Like in a movie Go go go go.
I also cannot figure out what to do, within three weeks some kind of hat rises from above and the smell in the whole kitchen is not very pleasant. The children are fucking and the spouse is cursing. At first I strapped this hat, and now I carefully took it off and threw it away twice. But the bread on this leaven turns out to be normal. True, I did not eat on others.

[kollenochka]

And you suspect correctly!
Because the forum has been working with this leaven for a long time, but not everyone, so you need to ask where exactly this leaven is being discussed, but first flip through the topic, since, most likely, all the subtleties have already been analyzed many times.
So that, kollenochka, go go go....
And you, Vasily, too.
Good luck!

Oh...Thank you for sending. I went) threw out the leaven and went to study all over again
In general, I think I will read it - maybe which one is easier to choose

Oh ... thanks for sending. Went) threw out the leaven and went to study all over again
In general, I think I will read it - maybe which one is easier to choose

Elena, don't give up. Experiment, I also do not know and do not understand a lot of things. And most importantly, there are no acquaintances or just good advice, I believe that there are sympathetic people on the forum, and not very competent experts who will poke links.

[Vasiliy]

Vasiliy, and what offended you so much in Olga's exile? She really did very competently - she gave you not fish, but nets for catching it.
For example, I understand that there is something very wrong with your leaven, since it smells bad. But what exactly is the problem - according to your message, it is impossible to understand - there is no information about what kind of leaven it is, how long you have it, what and how often you feed it, etc.
And, in general, there is no need for us to paint all this. Just follow the link, look for information on your sourdough - and the whole experience of the forum is in front of you!
Happy fishing!

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, SvetaI, Svetlana, as I understand it, the forum was created not only for professionals and amateurs who have at least basic information, but also for beginners, many of whom not only want to, but also vitally need to bake to use sourdough bread, that is exclude yeast in any form.
So, I asked questions several times, in this topic too, on this page 6 posts earlier. There is only one answer, link and look. Of course, I searched, dug, understood something, but lost time, and complicated searches, a lot of information is not clear. So 90% did not figure it out. CONCLUSION ONE, only OWN experience will help.
And I despise nets, because I am an avid fisherman and nature lover. Without any marriage. tackle fish in the house in any form. Previously, in order to weave one network of 25 meters, you need to spend a lot of autumn-winter evenings, but now for a penny you can buy kilometers of networks and leave no chance ...
So they gave you the right advice, they gave you a boat, one might even say with oars, and you row further yourself. It seems that they helped and suggested where to dig, but the questions still remain, but it is already scary to ask and there is no point, they will again send them.

[Vasiliy]

Vasiliy, there is, of course, a sense to ask! Do you have any idea what your starter culture might be called? There are so many of them, very different! Find a topic where exactly your sourdough is being discussed and that's where you are more likely to be answered and helped.

it is vital to bake sourdough bread, i.e. exclude yeast in any form

If for some reason you need to exclude yeast from the diet, then sourdough bread will not suit you. The starter culture is based on the same yeast, but only "wild", those that always live in flour.
There are really yeast-free (soda) bread, can you go there?

[Vasiliy]

Vasiliy, if the bread is sourdough, then yeast cannot be eliminated. After all, sourdough is yeast in symbiosis with lactic acid bacteria.
If for some reason yeast is contraindicated for you, then your option is bread on baking powder.

[in the subject of exactly that leaven and ask specific questions]

CONCLUSION ONE, only OWN experience will help.

A very correct conclusion was made!
We all went through our own conclusions Until you begin to understand the sourdoughs yourself, you start growing them, and the most important thing is to analyze, watch, remember, write down each stage ...

Therefore, they give you a link - take the topic of the sourdough you like, start working with it, and then in the subject of exactly that leaven and ask specific questions... Our bakers in this topic will not rewrite all the subtleties again when there are specific topics.

Here's another section CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING" and topics on sourdoughs WORKING WITH CREAMS, YEAST and Sourdoughs

[Arka]

Arka, SvetaI, AdminThank you all very much !!! Your advice helped a lot. I will study, penetrate again.For two years the doctors could not help me with my back, they helped myself in the gym. You probably have to redo the sourdough, it's a pity, I'm already used to it, I got attached to it, raised the kids, but I'm afraid to ask questions. And then start scolding.
No, I will still risk it. Is it right that I started taking off and throwing away the sourdough hat? I mixed my starter rye with wheat and started feeding it with rye flour. Two days, the flight is normal. No cap, bubbles bless you?

Added Wednesday 22 Feb 2017 12:41 pm

in the subject of exactly that leaven and ask specific questions.

This topic, in principle, is called sourdough in questions and answers, so I decided to ask here, they can play football from everywhere. 92 pages were typed. It seems like people were helped, but now, apparently, the policy has changed.

[Vasiliy]

No, I will still risk it. Is it right that I started taking off and throwing away the sourdough hat?

Vasiliy, your persistence is commendable ... but only that there is a desire to grow leaven

Is it difficult to understand what we are writing about here? what each leaven is individual, and its cultivation is also individual, and you also need to answer questions individually for each selected leaven
Is it really difficult to go to the section of the selected leaven, and there to work with it and ask questions about it

This theme general plan, in order to help you decide where to go next, what sourdough to do - which is what we do
If you are so persistent "not to listen to us," you will remain "quietly, by yourself."

[Admin]

Admin, Tatiana, you are probably right. I just wanted to find out everything and immediately, without getting bogged down, learn from the mistakes of others, I think having found such a versatile wonderful forum, I will immediately become a super-baker. We are no stranger to difficulties and we will not look for easy ways. I just asked for some trivial details, I thought that there were some basic templates WHAT IS POSSIBLE AND WHAT CANNOT. What is good, what is bad. Wrong means

if the rye sourdough peroxides what signs of this, how it affects, what sourness should be in the sourdough at its peak of activity, and at the end of its excretion, and can the peroxidation of the sourdough be the reason that it should be thrown away and the sourdough cannot be restored, although it looks like decently, very little information on this topic in the internet, basically it all comes down to how to prepare and store it

Well ... it's hard to take and answer.
First, what kind of leaven do you have? Secondly, what exactly happened to you, why did such a question suddenly arise?
I have eternal rye leaven. When she was young, after feeding, I put her in a warm place at night. And then she reached the peak of activity in the morning.
At some point, the bread baked with this sourdough turned out to be VERY sour. That is, according to your terminology, the sourdough is peroxide.
Then I began to simply leave the fed leaven at room temperature and this did not happen again.
In general, since my leaven is stored in the refrigerator, and this somewhat inhibits the lactic acid flora, my leaven is not very sour. At its peak - like an apple, only without the sweetness. For rye bread - normal, even sometimes it would be sour. And for wheat - sour, I don't bake wheat on it.

Hello. Thank you very much for the forum and the topics about sourdoughs! I am writing here (if something goes wrong, moderator, please postpone), because it took me a long time to determine the proportions and after many trials and several mistakes I settled on this option:

Ferment in sour milk. For my taste it is softer than kefir or water. Not so sour. I make two types of sourdough at once in two cans on whole grain and rye flour according to recipes from this forum.
Sourdoughs 200-210 grams (any, often mix in half. I tried 250 grams, the bread is sour and you need to reduce the proportions of water and flour)
Flour (I usually mix several varieties to taste) 420-425 grams.
Water 170-175 grams.
Salt 1.5 tbsp. spoons
Sugar 1.5-2.5 tbsp. spoons.
Sunflower oil 1.5-2 tablespoons.
If you add a little raisins, the sourdough acid will be less noticeable.

I knead the dough on the pizza program. I ended up putting the dough overnight. I put it on the batch at about 23:00, after finishing the batch on the "pizza" I cover the bucket with a bag. In the morning at 05:00 I turn on the baked goods (and go to sleep for another hour). At 06:00 I take out the bread and cut it for breakfast (06:40).
Sourdough recipes say the dough should sit for about 3 hours. I empirically came to the conclusion that it turns out perfectly from 5 to 8 (it was and so!) Hours. I have already switched to this method for about 4 months. Everything works out great! Now we eat 80% of bread without yeast!

[Andrei]

Andrei, welcome to the forum!

I make two types of sourdough at once in two cans on whole grain and rye flour according to recipes from this forum.

I suggest that you describe your version of working with sourdoughs in the topics where you took the recipes. I think those who use lactic acid starter cultures will be interested in your experience, and they may not even look here.
We also have topics on models of bread makers and many are interested in how to make sourdough bread in one or another oven. There, too, your work will come in handy.
And further:

Please don't tell anyone that you are eating yeast-free bread! The leaven contains a fair amount of yeast, otherwise it would not raise the bread. It's just that these are "wild" strains that work slowly compared to commercial yeast, but in fact they are the same biological species.

Thank you. About yeast - I agree! 😊 Of course it is by leaps and bounds. Not industrial, but natural! I mean industrial).