Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Admin, thanks

In principle, I am a beginner baker, but it so happened that now I am sitting at the dacha, there is time, but slow I-no, that is, I read the texts, but I did not see the pictures, but I really wanted to make bread with sourdough.

In general, the first day: rye flour and whey from milk + a little of the sour milk itself, no movement, nothing grew, although the stove was heated.

Day two: I poured aged kefir - small bubbles went, added flour and that's it ... I read the topic, and I understand that my yeast leaven died slowly. Well, I think, okay, pour it out and make a new one. I go up and look, and there are few bubbles on it, but they are there. Okay, I decided to wait some more. After 2 hours, the bubbles covered the entire surface and were inside, but I can't say that the dough grew very much.

Day three: I fed, drank, and as she went to grow, in general, I had to bake bread, but I did not save the recipes, and I-no, she's dying completely. Therefore, I took Elena Bo's recipe as a basis (however, in the process of kneading I added g. 70 flour, because the dough seemed to me very liquid + added ingredients like from the Darnytskyi Gashi bread recipe. I made 2 kneads for Pizza and I have it for 2 hours I baked * a fainting smiley *, I haven't eaten such delicious bread for a long time, even my husband admitted from the first bite that it was delicious.

I still want to try to bake it without yeast over time. Now part of the dough is resting in the refrigerator, tomorrow I will bake pancakes from the leftovers and put on a new one so that we can feed the guests of the country cottages on Friday. And I will have 2 leavens.

Admin, thank you very much, without your chewed advice, I would not have dared on this feat

[fiordiloto]

fiordiloto, thanks, it's nice to hear what helped
I wish you good sourdough and good breads

And what if you use fermented baked milk instead of kefir. It's just that kefir is, in principle, not my product.

And what if you use fermented baked milk instead of kefir. It's just that kefir is, in principle, not my product.

Try fermented baked milk You can also use curd whey

OK! I will try and report back.

First attempt to grow sourdough.
I put it on ryazhenek yesterday. Send the bubbles, today I'll feed them ... As I understand it, this should be done for 3 days. I don’t understand what’s next? When and what to put in the refrigerator? And how much can you store (feed) in the refrigerator later? (Sorry, I'm slowing down.) Tell me! Thank you!

[feeding a second time]

Help! something doesn’t work for me ... Roma writes in p. 1 we just mix milk and flour for the first time and then immediately in p. 2 p.feeding a second time in the end, what is mixed fresh is also considered a top dressing? My current stage - yesterday I added a fresh flour / kefir mixture for the second time. The leaven did not rise at all, and it began to rise only yesterday. What should I do next to feed or good ???
Thank you if you understand ...

You understood correctly - this is the second feeding (on the second day)

The leaven may not rise "to the ceiling", which means that under these conditions it will slowly rise. Feed for as many days and times as written in the topic, watch the leaven. The leaven must mature, especially since it is the first leaven.

This is how I understood the maturity of the young starter culture is determined by the characteristic smell of yeast, if so, then mine is ready! now I put it in a jar and use the rest ... And then after 5-10 days I do the same thing and I can't use it before because it doesn't stay in the jar much. I am not understanding something

If you are making the first step in the preparation of the leaven, then the leaven should ripen and gain strength, and this is about 5-7 days of daily feeding (see recipe)
Otherwise, the bread will turn out dull and fuzzy and smell sour.

Ok I understand now! But right now, what does not fall into the jar can be used or is it better to throw it away so as not to transfer the rest of the products to it?

[strong]

Admin! Prompt ...
The starter culture (rye flour + sour cream, kefir) grew perfectly (even too much) all 3 days, on the 4th I baked bread, it strong acidity, now the leaven is resting for the 2nd day.
Question: how to reduce acid in the final product? (Did I use too much sourdough?, feed her once with water or something else?)
For the evening, she left it diluted with flour and whey + sugar, stood for about 4 hours = baked pancakes, nothing happened, not as sour as bread ... but the sourness is very noticeable ...

Question: how to reduce acid in the final product? (did I use too much sourdough?, feed her once with water or something else?)
For the evening, she left it diluted with flour and whey + sugar, stood for about 4 hours = baked pancakes, nothing happened, not as sour as bread ... but the sourness is very noticeable ...

I'll get in a little. I think Admin will excuse me.

Why add sugar to the leaven?

In order not to sour - feed and refresh more often, do not stop it. Moreover, the sugar glucose is very fast and easily broken down by the yeast, which makes the dough even more sour. If the temperature of the sourdough during fermentation was not high, the so-called false lactic acid bacteria develop much faster, which secrete more acid.

Why add sugar to the leaven?

In order not to sour - feed and refresh more often, do not stop it.

1 Duc pancakes Well I wanted sweeter ..
2 So she is still young, it seemed she could not stand ... I just did it (test of the pen)
fed 1 time a day, at about the same time, as recommended by Admin.

[strong]

The starter culture (rye flour + sour cream, kefir) grew perfectly (even too much) all 3 days, on the 4th I baked bread, it strong sourness, now the leaven is resting for the second day.
Question: how to reduce acid in the final product? (did I use too much sourdough?, feed her once with water or something else?)

I repeat: if the leaven from the first run is new, completely fresh, it needs to gain strength, become active, for which you need to feed the leaven for the first 5-7 days, and only then start trying to use into bread dough, starting in small amounts.

It is better to use aged lactic acid products for starter culture.
Read about their properties here Using aged cottage cheese in bread dough
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=45260.0
The use of fresh kefir gives a strong sourness.

Sugar is not added to the leaven.

The amount of sourdough for bread is different, up to 100% by weight of flour (as the practice of its use shows), but the more sourdough, the more sour the bread can turn out - a matter of everyone's taste.

Optimally - up to 40-50% by weight of flour.

Like this

[4]

thanks for answers

Even though I read carefully, it seems, I did not catch up about 5-7 days ...
And what is better to do with her now if she is fed with me 4 day and third day resting on the windowsill? Should I start feeding for 6 days or give it a rest and then feed (?) Days?

Let her now rest 3-4 days and start growing as it should.
Feeding cycle 5 days, rest, feeding 5 days, rest, etc. - several cycles to increase activity.
And then according to the circumstances. The more active and strong the leaven, the tastier the bread will be

Thank you!
Will be working

I have a question again… it's time to start feeding the sourdough, but I thought .. How sour should kefir be, etc.? Maybe I didn't acidify enough or, on the contrary, oxydated ..?

And again I
I'm still waiting for an answer, but after 5 days of rest my sourdough smells very strongly of mash and no reminder of apples spoiled? it is necessary to start a new one or even try to reanimate with 5 dressings, etc. (and even what sourness is kefir?)

I have already written above which kefir is better to use and why "Using aged cottage cheese in bread dough"
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=45260.0

What is the acidity of kefir? I don't have a device to measure it, so I can't say. I use regular milk.

Everything is known in comparisons. Try, take and write down the results and your taste sensations, choose for yourself.

Try to start feeding for another five days, let the leaven gain strength and activity. If the leaven is bubbling and rising, then it is alive.

Look in the Sourdough Bread section for recipes using sourdough, especially lactic acid, and slowly prepare for baking bread. Pay attention to everything, the recipe, the amount of leaven for the dough, etc.

you will find a lot of questions / answers in the topic Questions and answers on leavens - look there and check yourself.

Success

Good day! Tell me, how do you feel about the idea of ​​using kefir from the Tibetan kefir mushroom for sourdough? or is it not that kefir?

The forum has a practice of using this kefir in sourdough - try it boldly

Dear Admin, Thank you very much for your clear recommendations! I did it right the first time !!!!
The leaven grows and smells, it smells sooo delicious! Now bread is baked on it (the leaven after the second cycle of feeding, reactive, grew before our eyes). The whole apartment is filled with aromas.
Thank you for your work!

[Zhenechka]

Zhenechka, thanks for the kind words, it's nice to hear that you like the leaven and it grows with you and makes you happy with bread
Good bread for you!

Dear Admin, To begin with, thank you so much for your heroic experimental work! Further, for an hour and a half I have been sitting reading your works about various leavens - the mind goes beyond the mind, in the head there is porridge, but I know that when you try to do everything yourself, a lot of incomprehensible things become clear :) What I want to ask, I really love I would like to prepare rye bread and sourdough that is more suitable for such bread, from the huge amount you offer, I can not choose (((Or kefir or MK or on gekules, in general I got confused! Help

[sea39]

I just can't choose (((Or kefir or MK or on gekules, in general I got confused! Help

sea39 , Thank you

Kefir and MKzakvask are one and the same! I just changed the name of the leaven.
I made starters on kefir (yogurt) and milk whey.
You don't need to get confused - all these starter cultures are based on lactic acid, the only difference is on flour, or oatmeal, I even made them on buckwheat flour!

To choose, you need to try all the starters and decide. otherwise, how do you know which one suits you best?
Start with the usual one - rye flour + kefir (yogurt) or curd whey, and then you will see

maybe in another question tell me, Admin? the dough in the HP has stopped rising according to different recipes, before the French went up under the roof, and now it only reaches the middle 2 times, the HP is in a warm place, there is no draft, I do not move it, yeast always take the saf - moment, I'm worried - maybe something with a stove, a sensor or something else? forgive me for being off topic, I also wrote there, but there is no strength to wait for an answer there

Answered already

[Admin]

Hello, Admin!
I have a question for you. I found the warmest place in my refrigerator, the temperature there is + 10C. Now the question is: is this temperature normal or is it still cold for the sourdough?
Thanks for attention!

Maybe this is not the optimum, but my sourdough in the refrigerator is also growing! I didn't measure the temperature, but I think, as usual, somewhere around +6 +7.
I warm it up a little before baking.
See how she feels, I think this is the main thing.
I hope Admin will answer you again.

[Zhenechka01]

Zhenechka01, for rye sourdough + 10 * C is very good. Just before baking, it needs to be allowed to stand at room temperature to warm up. Well, the ideal option is, of course, to get it, let it warm up and freshen it up 6 hours before baking.
For wheat, +10 is the minimum. And you need to take this into account when feeding.If you want to keep the starter culture until tomorrow, then after feeding it, soak it for 3 hours and put it in the cold. You will get it tomorrow, let it warm up and you can bake it. And if you want to feed her 2 times a week, then after feeding, hold for 1 hour so that the fermentation process begins and in the cold, so she will last 3 days and will ripen in the cold.

[yuliya_k, Viki]

yuliya_k, Viki! Thank you very much! I got it

Admin, you are our patient ... I am grateful for your efforts. Finally I got over the leaven, although I studied the information for a week. The more you study, the harder it is to get started. At first there was a mess in my head. I tried to ferment MK, as it turned out patience and nothing is difficult at all. It's scary just to start deciding on a recipe for choosing a leavened baking, but tomorrow I think to start experiments, because while MK was gaining strength, I used it for all sorts of pancakes. Anyway, I bow to you for the details in the explanations. Sorry for the chatter, rushing with joy along with bubbles in sourdough ...

Erhan, I also use sourdough from Admin, I'm very happy, I bake rye bread only with sourdough. I store it in the freezer - don't be surprised. I divided the leaven into 50-gram portions. Two days before baking the bread - I take out the leaven, put it on the table, as soon as it thawed, add 50 g of rye flour and 50 g of aged kefir. And until the next day. The next day I add 100 g of flour and 100 g of water. Lactic bacteria also multiply - the leaven smells like a green apple. The next day, the leaven is so strong that you can already bake bread. I also took the basic recipe from Admin as the basis for rye bread and made it up for myself.

[inusya]

Admin, you are our patient ... I am grateful for your efforts.

Girls inusya , SWIFTA, it's nice to hear that everything worked out for you I hope that the leaven will continue to please you
Good sourdough bread for you

SVIFTA, please clarify (what you are doing with the freezer, I was very interested) if I understood correctly, baking already 2 days after defrosting? That is, \ defrost- + 50g + 50ml \ this is for one day, \ then another 100 + 100 \ this is another day. And then knead. That is, two days are enough for all the preparation? And further. Do you have all the sourdough for baking without a trace? Why I ask, I am very sorry when there is an extra one, and there is no one to attach. And if it's not difficult for you, share if you have already tested this recipe or give a link.

Good day to all! : pek: Four days ago I bought a bread maker and all this time (with interruptions) I have been sitting on the site, studying. ... I studied it in such a way that I clicked in the wrong place, and sent a copy of someone else's message as her own. : pardon: I couldn't bring it back. Therefore, I am very sorry and ashamed, but I have nothing to say about the leaven. I only have sour milk for KMZ is sour. The serum has already separated, but there are no bubbles yet. So I'll make sourdough on it, bake a few loaves, then I'll unsubscribe. ... Now I apologize again for my awkwardness.
And now I would like to say a BIG THANKS to you, Admin. This is how one must love bread baking (one doesn’t dare say “bread-making”) to write about it with such enthusiasm and so talented! And how long does it take. Moreover, we have time to answer all our questions. Thank you for that from the bottom of my heart! ...
And I really liked the idea of ​​freezing sourdough. You need to take note.

Swifta, you see, everything that is being done is for the best. If it were not your mistake, I would not be interested in the freezing idea. Firstly, I was here recently, and as I read, it became scary, I thought that I would be the most stupid on the site, they would be ashamed and kicked out. But it turned out that they accepted it with understanding. Now we will dig the truth about the freezing of leaven.

[question]

Hello, do you accept newcomers? I want to thank everyone who shares their knowledge and experience. I have had a bread maker for almost a year, I didn’t regret buying it, but I baked bread only with dry yeast, now I decided to make a sourdough and decided to start with MK, since often there are half-finished dairy products left. With grief, I bought rye flour in half in our city (sold in a shop at the bakery, women who work in the bakery itself), I'll put it on it. I specifically looked for rye flour, so I read that it is the best. therefore question in pursuit: if suddenly I cannot buy rye flour, will it be possible to feed the sourdough with at least 1 variety?
In the meantime, the sourdough will be grown, I went to study the topic of sourdough bread.

[question]

I specifically looked for rye flour, so I read that it is the best. therefore question in pursuit: if suddenly I cannot buy rye flour, will it be possible to feed the sourdough with at least 1 variety?
In the meantime, the sourdough will be grown, I went to study the topic of sourdough bread.

And you try to grow another starter culture, they are no worse and you can feed them anything

I had two sourdoughs based on this one - I continued to feed one with rye flour, and the other with wheat of the first grade. In the summer I had to cut because of my absence.
Orange, there are so many sourdough topics, and many sourdoughs on wheat flour, luminaries manage to grow even on the highest grade, so give her strength on rye flour, and then boldly go with the first grade of wheat!

Inusya, I do not quite understand your problem. The leaven remains ALWAYS. Next time and brood. My sourdough is already more than two years old, I keep it in a jar with holes and gauze in the refrigerator, if you feed it (and, accordingly, bake bread) at least once a week, then nothing terrible should happen to it. Summer is a difficult period for my leaven, I am somewhere not at home, I baked from it almost once every three weeks. Nothing survived. Why a freezer?

[himichka]

himichka I also read about others, over time I will try them, just many write that rye flour is less likely to "fail". Yes, and dairy products often remain, so they will go into business, in particular, today I put the porridge for the child to cook, and the milk curdled, so the case itself ordered.

yuliya_k thanks for the advice.

luminaries manage to grow even on the highest grade

that's exactly what the luminaries, and I'm so completely newbie, and green-green.

INUSYA. Countrymen - hello. And good day to all members of the forum! I am also a green-green baker (I only have a week). I bought it specifically in order to bake according to non-standard recipes, that is, not what is in stores (although we now have a lot of delicious pastries in Amstor). So I study the possibilities of cotton and different recipes. I liked KMZ for its simplicity and familiarity (if I may say so, everyone cooked at least something on fermented milk products). Thank you very much Admin for her work! So I bought Ilyichevskoe milk (they say that it is natural), fermented it until the clot separates from the serum and the appearance of bubbles, and today I put the MKZ. But from the photo I did not understand how large this plastic jar was, so I took 250 ml of yogurt. I hope you got it right. Right now MKZ is ripening. What happens - I'll unsubscribe later. And the freezing of the leaven interested me with its unusualness (I had never heard of this before). Yes, and at the initial stage anything can happen, maybe you have to freeze it so as not to throw away the excess, after all, after all, your hands are a creation.

tell me for the dull ones))) I made a mkz from Admin 2 days ago, baked bread on it, put another 2 350g jars in the refrigerator. Questions: now she has to rest for 5 days, then I put her at home + feed her three times and only then can I use it again? This already takes 8 days, and when I bake bread, I bake it every other day. Or can I now take the MKZ out of the refrigerator, let it warm up for a couple of hours and I can bake it? do not swear, dear moderators, I honestly read 15 pages of this topic, but there is not enough time ((((

Or can I now take the MKZ out of the refrigerator, let it warm up for a couple of hours and I can bake it?

I, of course, also not a pro in terms of leavening, but I would do just that!
Watch your "beast" more, nobody knows him better than you.

Or can I now take the MKZ out of the refrigerator, let it warm up for a couple of hours and I can bake it?

Get it, let it warm up, feed it, let it increase and bake.
If not 8 days, then 8 hours for sure.

Yes, fans of "eternal" will forgive me, but it didn't work out with her ...
But my beloved MK was not even killed by my relatives!
Very convenient in all respects sourdough for teapots.

I had two sourdoughs based on this one - I continued to feed one with rye flour, and the other with wheat of the first grade. In the summer I had to cut because of my absence.
Orange, there are so many sourdough topics, and many sourdoughs on wheat flour, luminaries manage to grow even on the highest grade, so give her strength on rye flour, and then boldly go with the first grade of wheat!

Inusya, I do not quite understand your problem. The leaven remains ALWAYS. Next time and brood. My sourdough is already more than two years old, I keep it in a jar with holes and gauze in the refrigerator, if you feed it (and, accordingly, bake bread) at least once a week, then nothing terrible should happen to it. Summer is a difficult period for my leaven, I am somewhere not at home, I baked from it almost once every three weeks. Nothing survived. Why a freezer?

Thank you, thank you, you are right. I kind of managed to come up with and really without a freezer. Maybe someone will take this experience into service. To diversify the bread, I bake a sourdough baking once a week. And I do this: MK leaven rests for 5 days in the cold in a jar with a hole. On Friday morning, at 10-11 o'clock (2.5 days before baking) I got it out, warmed it up, fed it, put it down in tech. day, sleep at night in the hall. Saturday is the same schedule. On Sunday morning (two days have already passed) I took out, fed and looked at her mood? Excellent? Somewhere at 15.00 she hints that it is time. I put our beloved Izyumkin Selyanskiy, and around 22.00 it is ready. I anticipate the question: what the hell is he in the middle of the night? I answer: knowing that the willpower is enough not to eat it hot for the night, I let it cool under a towel until morning. But this is MY convenient schedule for yourself. You can also calculate at your discretion. The main thing is to remember in advance when you need bread. I would be glad to both advice and criticism. Can someone else share their experience. While it is convenient. Maybe something else will come up ...

Good day to all! I am reporting. MKZ fed and raised as the Admin advises. Zakvaska behaved according to the description, did not indulge in. On the third day in the evening she baked bread "Wheat-rye mold on kefir sourdough from Admin". Since they wrote that kvass can be put dry without dissolving, I did just that. The leaven was liquid and with bubbles, and even stringy, so it didn't work out exactly, I took, as they wrote, 3-3.5 measuring cups. The beer was dark unfiltered. I chose the "Whole grain" mode, because there is no "Rye" mode in my x / p, and this one is closest to the description of what rye flour loves. I knew that this was a recipe for baking in the oven ... I knew that the dough should be liquid, but that so much .... What a bun, what dough ... it was liquid pea puree. I added a little flour - there are no changes. So I left my "pea puree" alone with the thought: "A negative result is also a result!" And she went away so as not to tear my heart. I came to the smell ... And the smell was not pea puree, the smell of bread ... I looked through the window and almost bumped my forehead against the lid of bread, which rose to the very top of the bucket ... I hardly waited until the end of the process ... I didn't have enough strength to wait for the bread to cool, I cut it warm ... I had to see my eyes ... they were the size of that failed bun ... The bread came out SOFT, POROUS, WITH LIGHT SURFACE, Slightly moist (just in moderation, I DID ... When you cut, it does not stick to the knife ... Delicious ... Og Many thanks to Admin for her recipe. .... The result was overwhelmingly unexpected The only thing - the roof at the end fell a little ... but this is such a trifle ... The bread turned out naaaamnooogo better than the store one. This is my first experience of baking bread not MKZ. Now I will reduce the amount of yeast and liquid.