Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1, it's hard for me to answer your first question - simple arithmetic (from my previous answers):
If it is desirable to store the starter culture for no more than 8 days, and you need to have 2-3 starter cultures for their normal functioning and feed each one for the activity of day 3, then we get the following arithmetic formula:

8: 2-3 = 2.7-4 days, that is, the leavens can rest 2.7 (round up to 3) - 4 days each.

I cannot talk about preferences, so as not to offend other leavens and their authors.
But I'm more concerned with my brainchild, because I need to constantly answer your questions.

Adminthank you, I understood everything

Oh, Admin, it's me again ...
I printed out another batch of material, read it ... where you made a selection of questions and answers in this thread. The question was how to start baking bread and you list 2 days, BUT with "cleaning" in the refrigerator after "the swelling processes begin"? That is, it does not need to be brought to its peak during these 2 days? I realized that I need to repeat exactly as when growing, just keep it constantly at room temperature ... or I've already taken everything into account ...
Regarding the programs: I just started baking (it will be a week), but every day I make different breads, I started as you taught with your simple wheat. On the "main" program and in all the rest, the 1st big batch and then these are the proving ... But everything turns out well, I track the bun from the very beginning (during these 30-40 minutes). Since I'm not very friendly with yeast baked goods, I urgently need to switch to without ...
And about clones, you mean that then they add oatmeal, dispersed grain, bran (after all, a piece of this fed then goes next time)?

Admin, thanks again for not leaving me in trouble.

Angelinka, you mixed everything together so well that I did not understand anything from your text

You at least give links - where and what I said - the material is large and changes quickly

Admin, at the end (1 post):
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3394.0
written to repeat as when growing for 3 days.
And here is a completely different story ...
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3704.0
"QUESTION: I want to start baking bread, when and how to start feeding sourdough ... ANSWER: ..."

In the first link mk-leaven, which I made and my principle of use.
And then look at the dates of the posts - May 2008, a year has passed since that time, many more different moments have been developed.

The second link also contains data from a year ago - and the topic is collected from questions and answers from our users.

This does not mean that you cannot use leaven and you do not need to read the recommendations - they are all correct - you just need to make corrections for the time of posting, and the authors

good evening,
Admin I would like to ask you some advice on buckwheat K. lactic acid starter.
I had a herculean KMZ, I decided to try to bake bread with buckwheat sourdough. For three days I fed her 40g. Greek flour + 50g. (water with whey).
Today I watched her, she climbed to a certain height for lunch, but she remained at this point. I waited, waited and did not wait, and decided to start making the dough at 8 pm.
I have a question (I just already understood it in hw. KM-Sourdough when the peak) for buckwheat, according to your observations, the same way or another.

Ok, Admin, what are you doing now? Or in a new way? Now I'm going to take it out of the refrigerator for the 1st feeding ... 5 days have passed (I will repeat the cycle for the 2nd time).

I have a question (I just already understood it from hw. KM-Sourdough when the peak) for buckwheat, according to your observations, the same way or another.

Everything is the same - the base is the same for the leaven - the flour is different

Good day.I read both topics about lactic acid starter cultures, I was very impressed by the reviews. Today I will run to the store for kefir in order to certainly start the fermentation process
I am interested in some points (perhaps in the course of a long reading I missed it, you must excuse me) ...
1. How long does it take to rise (proof) the dough from the end of the kneading to planting it in the oven? I am interested in time with and without yeast, only with sourdough. It takes about 2 hours in my oven. Is this enough or is it better to bake bread in the oven?
2. Do I need to crush the dough while lifting?

Thank you in advance.

Dear, please respond !!!!
Kefir is already sour

Kefir sour - it's good

But before making dough and baking bread, you need to grow the leaven

How to grow lactic acid starter culture can be read at the very beginning of this topic or else here at these links:

I answered here about feeding starter cultures:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

Everything is the same - the base is the same for the leaven - the flour is different

I watched her, she climbed to a certain height, but she stayed at this point. I never saw the peak decay.
What do you think Admin, I did the right thing, or I had to wait a little longer, or maybe it was already too late, I don't understand in this situation and with this torment.
I asked Admin, how did buckwheat react, did you get a drop in the peak, or what is my story?

The peak can come in 6-8 hours from the beginning of feeding

The sourdough just has to starve and begin to sink, but before that, it can hold out for a while without further rising.

It's leaven! What to take from her - she has her own quirks and laws

Admin I start to feed the starter in the morning after taking it out of the refrigerator, and usually hw. mz. I already have a peak at 13-14 hours.
This is buckwheat MZ. also somewhere the same approached, but until 20 o'clock and did not go down anymore.

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1 if it is at its peak, try starting the oven.

And then, simply by observing, look at her, what and how she needs.

For example, it helps me to keep a diary - to write down every time how much and what I put in, how long I got up, how, etc. Helps to understand

Adminthanks for the answer,
I just thought, I don’t know how she behaves, and you have a lot of experience.
maybe buckwheat flour reacts differently like other flours and it was normal for her that she was not as active as hw. mz.

[Admin]

Admin, I have been tormented by one question for a long time. And I did not dare to ask everything. Just don’t laugh, maybe I’ll ask stupidity ...
Kefir for sourdough for 2 days should sour, that is, completely sour. It seems to me not "from a good life" it turns sour. Along with lactic acid, there is also a different flora, including possibly pathogenic. But she, too, does not sleep and DOES REPLACE.
I have a very bad (to put it mildly) attitude towards such products, but here we feed it all, multiply it, not knowing WHO (or what), and that's all for bread.
I diluted the leaven successfully. The bread was good. But I could not overcome myself (Medic to the bone). Maybe you will dissuade me ?! People are doing this, but everyone is on the sidelines ...

[Elenka69]

Elenka69, you asked me a provocative question

I am not a medic - I am an observer and collector of useful advice!

Let me tell you what I know about such kefir, especially since I have written a lot about this on the forum for a long time.

From a distant childhood I know that fresh kefir weakens - old kefir ... (as a doctor you know the answer yourself).
If you put pancakes on fresh kefir (yogurt) and bake, then they will not be very lush and will taste like kefir sourness. Proven by my own experience for a long time, and the forum has already noticed it.

If the dough is put on old, aged kefir, the dough rises well, the pancakes are lush and delicious to taste, without sourness.

And why is this happening?

Because in old kefir the fermentation process begins, that is, the process of yeast formation!
And this yeast really works like "yeast" and raises the dough.
And for rye dough, yeast, plus lactic acid bacteria! And during fermentation, all this kefir is processed and passes during the fermentation of the ferment to another stage, takes on other properties - this is already a leaven, and not just old kefir, which cannot be drunk.

The older the kefir, the better it works. By old kefir, I mean time-aged kefir, within 4-7 days (as it happens), so that yeast cultures develop actively in it, so to speak.
But there is certainly a limit to the time and state of aging of kefir. As far as I have read and know, mold should not appear, especially pink. And if the kefir peels off and a little boils - this is normal. That is why I write everywhere - bring kefir to the state of "about to become moldy", but not the appearance of mold as such. This, of course, is unnecessary and life-threatening. And this must be followed.

What kefir (curdled milk) to take for these purposes?
Pure in its properties! If we ferment milk with sour cream from the store, but it does not ferment for almost a week, it means that the sour cream is crammed with antibiotics against souring and for long-term storage. I myself have come across this several times, so I myself make milk at home, old my sour cream and curdled milk.

In my opinion, it is scary that manufacturers are shoving different varieties and antibiotics into milk, but only me (and others too) forgot to warn that they were crammed and whether I could have these funds, and whether I would be allergic to them and what aggravation or diseases. Sorry, why then will the priest itch and go stains?

So after all, you can't eat unwashed raisins - and you really need to put the sourdough, and moreover, on unwashed raisins, since it contains the very bacteria-yeasts that raise the leaven and make it very active - and the bread turns out to be gorgeous!

So draw your conclusions - which is more dangerous - my aged kefir, or sour cream from the antibiotic store.
Or unwashed raisins for the stomach - or a gorgeous sourdough on it!

And besides, I was not the first to invent the leaven!
It has been made in Russia for centuries and baked bread. I, too, initially put bread on old kefir (remembering its properties to raise the dough), then I began to make sourdough from it and voiced all this on the forum. And then the sourdoughs poured in different versions ...

And in monasteries on what bread dough is put? On different leavens! And the monks will not advise themselves bad .... They, too, fight for the purity of the bread, only in silence, with labor.

You can talk a lot about this, give examples, argue and…. Really, I just do not know what arguments to give, I am not a physician, not a biologist ... But I read a lot of books on cooking and around her and remember.

And I will not dissuade you ... you just need to understand, accept, and then everything will resolve itself.

I don't know if she answered ...

[Admin]

Admin, thank you very much for such a meaningful answer! Convinced! But all the same, doubts gnaw (they are all fighting for life, in the sense of representatives of flora and fauna). I probably still read special literature. Maybe I will share information.
In your rightness, I do not doubt at all!
With gratitude!

So that's why the dough turns out like this and bread - that "they are fighting for life there"

Kefir sour - it's good

But before you can make dough and bake bread, you need to grow sourdough.

How to grow lactic acid sourdough can be read at the very beginning of this topic or else here at these links:

I answered here about feeding starter cultures:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

Yes, that's all clear. I just would like to clarify everything in advance, so that later in vain do not translate products

If everything is clear - then go ahead

You make sourdough - and for every bread recipe, the Author writes what and how to do it.
What to put in the dough, what and how and how much to stand and many more different subtleties with each bread recipe

Choose - then a substantive conversation will be with the Author of the recipe.

Success

So that's why the dough turns out like this and bread - that "they are fighting for life there"

It dawned on me! They're all the same there when bakingdie(sorry for the harsh word, but there is no other way to say)
What a difference then, because the final result is important!

According to books and technology, yeast dies at 50-60 * C.

I can agree with this, because when you put the dough after proofing in the oven for baking, it continues to rise for some time under the influence of the hot temperature and the agitation of the yeast from the hot one.

But this process lasts only until the temperature reaches 60 * C inside the dough - then the growth of the dough stops.

So much for the combination of one temperature and two properties of the dough

That's right - sorry yeast, dying

Admin may not be about starters, but I really want to ask you, maybe you heard, or maybe you have a kefir mushroom?

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1, while there is no Admin, let you answer. We discussed the topic of kefir mushroom here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=8388.0

[Admin]

Admin, thanks for your understanding and attention!

[Admin]

Kefir turned sour, started making sourdough
Admin, tell me ... at the very beginning of the topic about kefir sourdough, you described this process. I understand that you only fed her once and she began to rage with you. I fed mine yesterday with serum (though straight from the refrigerator and it was not very old, it stood there for 5 days). The leaven "puffs", but does not rage like yours. Tell me, does it make sense to feed her again, and then experiment with bread?

[ira_lioness]

ira_lioness , the leaven "puffs" - but this does not mean that it is ready to raise the dough

How to grow lactic acid starter culture can be read at the very beginning of this topic or else here at these links:

I answered here about feeding starter cultures:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

Here's a look at this info, then we'll talk again, I'll just repeat once again everything that is written on those links. Let's save our time

Already met more than once, so I got confused
According to my observations, it does not shine with activity. I think with such a pace it will be difficult for her to raise the dough, especially from rye flour. I don’t even know what to feed her so that she starts rampant.

So you describe for a start how many days she "puffed" you, what and how you fed and all the other moments of growing your sourdough

You can't see this behind the monitor, then we'll think what's wrong

So you describe for a start how many days she "puffed" you, what and how you fed and all the other moments of growing your sourdough

You can't see this behind the monitor, then we'll think what's wrong

I'm telling ...
Kefir stood at room temperature for 4 days, began to bubble and serum separated. I added rye flour to it (to the consistency of sour cream), mixed everything well. The leaven stood for a day at room temperature, bumps appeared on the surface and air bubbles periodically emerged, which gave the impression that it was breathing.The next day (after a day had passed) I fed it with 5-day whey (from the refrigerator) and rye flour in the same proportion, all mixed well with a whisk. Left at a comfortable temperature.
Air bubbles were also visible this morning, but it did not increase in volume very much, quite a bit. Now I'm thinking about what I did wrong and how to fix the situation ... it seems that everything is not completely lost

[gram]

Nothing is lost.

The new sourdough may not grow right away - it is not yet a sourdough, but rather a paste of flour and water.
Smell how it smells - rotten grass and tastes just as disgusting
But you need to smell and try - you will know her condition better.

Now go through the options on the links above.

Take 1-2 tbsp. sourdough, add 40 grams of flour + 60 gram serum and put on for another day.

It's too early to talk about sourdough, we need feeding for a few more days in the same amount and in the same mode, and until it changes the smell to apple and the taste to apple.

This can take several days.

Thanks for your help, I will take a part and continue to grow it
And from the rest I will try to bake at least wheat. But you probably have to add yeast.

[ira_lioness]

ira_lionessLord, well, you at least smell it first

This is not sourdough yet, but rotten hay

You will receive exactly the same bread and you will say that the leaven is bad.

Girls, I don’t know how to tell you about leavens yet ..... your will

Sorry, I didn't want to offend anyone at all - it's a shame for the leaven

I'm just learning
I'll come and sniff

My hands are clearly not growing from there
Yesterday I came home and smelled this mixture called sourdough. Smells sour, but definitely not apples. And it tastes so nasty
I fed her, added some raisins and she died out. Until this morning, she did not give a single sign of life
Kvass ferments well, when you add raisins, maybe in vain in the leaven

[ira_lioness]

ira_lioness, show me where you read from me that lactic acid sourdough should be fed with raisins and something else.

Let's do this: you read all the information on my links above, make a calendar-plan for yourself on paper what and when and how to do and next comment on what and how it will smell, etc.

Then follow exactly this calendar-plan without retreating (without raisins and other things).

If something doesn't work out at some stage - ask me a question, we'll figure it out.

Then your hands will definitely grow as they should.

Do you remember what smell came from us in our distant childhood, they turned up our nose. This is how the leaven is still a child with you, it is just being born, and it smells accordingly - it will grow and mature and the smell will be just right
And treat the sourdough as a good and necessary product, do not call it names in any way - it will answer you well

Does the dishes in which to grow it matter? Everything seems to be in cans, but I'm in a saucepan
And can the presence of drafts affect the fermentation process? And then she's on my floor.

[ira_lioness]

ira_lioness , in my text on links nowhere it is not written that I store the leaven on the floor under the door in a draft and in a saucepan.

If you want me to work with you and answer your questions on the merits, please read very slowly and very carefully my consultations on the links indicated for you in the post above, and follow all the recommendations that I gave you above.

Then I will know that you are doing everything right and how to help you.

Then I will know that you are doing everything right and how to help you.

Special thanks for "messing" with me
For half a day now I have been reading answers, tips, etc. There are a lot of things written and scattered about. But I promise, I will try to do everything as you write

Oh, I also wanted to know. Just don't swear too much if I write nonsense again
Can anything be done from a part of my still unripe sourdough? It's a pity to throw away Fritters made from rye-wheat flour? If there are any, you can throw in the recipe.
Or is it still impossible to do anything on it?

[Admin]

I know I got everyone, but it's me again
Admin, as you advised, I took part of the sourdough, added 40 grams of flour and 60 grams of curdled milk. She put all this in a jar under cheesecloth. I made a mark on the bank to keep track of its growth. The leaven was covered with small bubbles, but did not increase in volume. Did I do something wrong again or is this normal?

This is normal. Repeat this procedure once more with feeding, smell the leaven - we strive for the smell and taste of an apple, not rotten grass.

This is normal. Repeat this procedure once more with feeding, smell the leaven - we strive for the smell and taste of an apple, not rotten grass.

I strive, you have no idea how
I will soon be kicked out of the house with these banks. But I will not give up!

[Admin]

Adminas you said, the leaven changed its smell to apple, it tastes more like vinegar. But she behaves quite peacefully, never tried to escape and did not increase in volume. What should I do with her next? Continue feeding again?

Sorry to interfere. As always, a quick question (for me).

For two months in a row I have been making bread based on this leaven. I have established, so to speak, technology, I like everything and are happy with it.But since the bread lasts quite a long time, in two months I got a little tired of rye.

Is it possible to somehow suspend the activity of the leaven? I would like to pause for a couple of weeks, but not lose the ferment at the same time, because with age, it really became much more lifelike than at first. Just feed her with a little kefir and flour once a week and drain the excess, or is it possible somehow differently?

Thank you in advance.

Comrades bakers, help!
How do you know when the leaven is ready and can be used? It smells pleasantly sour, but it does not rise only slightly bubbles are covered.

I'm not an expert, but from what I've seen myself, I can tell you that my leaven needs to be left alone for quite some time before it rises on its own.

How many hours ago did you last interfere with her? Also, when you stir, is the leaven inside you all bubbles?