Choosing a dishwasher

Sun pills

I didn't really like the powder, but the canister is very convenient. Because of her and bought.

Girls, how grateful I am to you! The dishwasher hasn't arrived yet. and I am completely theoretically prepared))) I know what is needed, what is not necessary to pour ...
Found in our Dn-sk through the city forum of the joint venture. European household chemicals. price class)
I haven't ordered yet, but at least I have something to think about ...
Girls, did anyone use Denkmit products?

I wash with Denkmint powder, normal and inexpensive

Julia, great! So I’ll probably buy it. So far, Frosch also took note of him. Salt - as advised here Finish. Well, Denkmit rinse)). armed !!

Take another dishwasher gel, suddenly you have to wash something with a Teflon coating, or cups, glasses, plates with gilding. The powder usually scratches these things, but the gel washes more gently.

And it will not harm it in the end, after a while, something in the car, such as hoses, rockers that spray water or other plastic parts, if you wash it for a long time with this degreaser for coffee machines. : girl-th: They run such means to remove fat into the car for prophylaxis, but already when it is sufficiently dirty and not so often. I do not buy very expensive detergents, because I came to the conclusion that the quality of washing depends more on the correct mode and the placement of the dishes.

I think it won't hurt. The composition of both powders is almost identical. No wonder, in the absence of specials. from coffee fats we recommend powder for dishwashers.

Girls, what kind of salt should I take? small or large. I also saw Indesit pills.

For me, in terms of price-quality ratio, Denkmit is very good. 1 tablet - 1 UAH 50 kop. And I like the Domol salt - it seems to last longer, well, the stock price is super.

[fronya40]

fronya40, I also wash my powder Denkmit, like.

Em, and powder is even cheaper, I put less in a quick wash, and more on a car.

We took Denkmint tablets, the cheapest, it feels like the powder is compressed and that's it. Feri also took pills, used them for heavily soiled dishes, but if you store them for a long time, they leak, or is it mine alone. I take Finish salt, we have not a great choice, there is often a promotion - the Finish Quantum tablet is attached. Sometimes I take Somat at a discount, somehow for 9 UAH a pack was

I want to leave my enthusiastic review for the Clean & Fresh PMM tablets, they are washed for 8+, they don't cost much for one tablet! They even wash away the things that other tablets cannot do. now I will try to take only these pills, I really like them, they wash even better than Finish.

Tell me please. I ran out of salt in my car. the icon began to blink. pm bosh. salt, as luck would have it, in the store. then the rinse aid is over. began to wash with pills. they seem to write there that you can not add salt and rinse, but it is advisable to do this. I added rinse aid. but the salt icon after several washes began to fade, and now it does not burn at all. is that salt is no longer required? or just a light bulb burned out?

ppcd, the salt must be added if you don't want the machine to fail.

So in the tablets it is written that the addition of salt and rinse is not required

So in the tablets it is written that the addition of salt and rinse is not required

Then the producers are so enticing

[ppcd]

ppcd, I do not even know...It has been burning for a long time already, but it does not fade, it also seems to me that the point is in the light bulb.
Nothing fatal will happen, of course, don't be so upset. Everything is written correctly in the instructions - if the hardness of the water is not very high, and you wash with a glass, then you can not use salt or set its consumption to the very minimum. Because otherwise you can get over-softened water and damaged glass.

is that salt is no longer required? or just a light bulb burned out?

I read the foreman's answers that he repairs these machines, that salt should always be filled up, even if you only wash them with tablets. Otherwise, if you do not fill it up for a long time, then a kirdyk will come with an ion-exchange resin that softens the water in the machine. So go back to sleep as soon as you can. And in the instructions I have it is written that with the tablets, salt should still be filled in, but the rinse is optional.

Yes, it's true, the resin can coke if you wash it for 3-4 months without salt every day with very hard water. But it can be changed if desired ~ RUB 300 kg. Only the minimum packaging was seen 3 kg. Although you can buy a cartridge from a drink and take from it. The same 250-300 rubles. But you still have to disassemble.

so I skimped. I went to this Watson, bought a whole bunch of everything - tablets, salt, washing. powder and all sorts of necessities .. and after reading carefully at work already (although I seemed to read the composition there) - it turned out that in tablets up to 30% of phosphates (in powder for PMM the same), but washed. powder up to 5% ...
so I'll buy a frosh all the same ..

I read the foreman's answers that he repairs these machines, that salt should always be filled up, even if you only wash them with tablets. Otherwise, if you do not fill it up for a long time, then a kirdyk will come with an ion-exchange resin that softens the water in the machine.

Come on, scare people. In normal cars, if you tell the car that you wash with a tablet, then water does not even enter the ionizer.
And the normal state of the resin is with added calcium, it doesn’t really care what metal it is wearing, what is calcium, what is sodium. Only iron refuses to leave its home and deprives the resin of its ability to regenerate.

Lena, the key word is "normal". In which ones - even the service providers have no idea. In mine, all the water goes through the ion exchanger.

Thanks to everyone who reminded me about the gel. Dishes (all) of soap are always only powder. I have never met a gel in Auchan. I remembered that once I saw Japanese chemistry in the m-not "Your House", I went. But from the Japanese PMM remedies were only powder and pills. But I bought two European gels at once. Now when I wash dishes with a non-stick coating, use the gel.

Hello to all happy owners of dishwashers :)
Since the middle of last year, I've been studying dishwasher topics on your forum! Whoo! How much information! There is already a synopsis!
Tomorrow we are going for our assistant - Bosch sms 53N18. I have already ordered a full set of Bravix (salt, rinse aid, powder) at Enter Svyaznoy and also grabbed the last pack of Japanese powder. True, I will most likely try all this only in February, when we move. Now I have doubts about Bravix salt. How big is it? Anyone in the know?
The water in our city is just disgusting! Every month I remove lime build-ups from the lid of the jug filter. So salt is paramount to me!

I began to cook a lot in the kitchen and with pleasure, because after creativity it is not necessary to plow over a mountain of dirty dishes.

oh yeah! I myself am terrified how I love to cook. Only now, when an interesting idea arises, I immediately sort out all the dishes necessary for this with my head, imagine it as a heavy pile in my double sink and run away from the kitchen

Now I have doubts about Bravix salt. How big is it?

I can't say specifically about this salt, but it so happened that I recently bought fine salt at a discount. I used to use a large one. I doubted if it would be spent faster.I was convinced that no. The consumption is the same.

Come on, scare people. In normal cars, if you tell the car that you wash with a tablet, then water does not even get into the ionizer.

Nobody scares, but warns, you never know who has a car "abnormal".

Salt is so cheap that saving on it is a dubious business.

But the "salted" water does nothing but harm the dishes.

The whole topic can not be reread, but I actually have a question: has anyone used FeedBack Tablets for PMM Italy? How do they launder?

Good day.
I began to use these pills when I could not buy my favorite Japanese PMM gel LION anywhere else. Now I have already started the second pack. They wash well, I like it. The only thing that does not suit me (and, in principle, this is for all powders and tablets where the packaging is removed) is the smell! He certainly kills me.Open the machine after washing - and you leave for 10 minutes until this chemistry disappears
And these pills, in principle and at a price, are normal, I think. We sell them, though in the only store in the city for 200 rubles. for thirty tablets.

But the "salted" water does nothing but harm the dishes.

Where did the firewood come from? "Not salted on the table, but salted on the head"? Apart from the need to add salt more often, there is no harm.

[Softened water]

Where did the firewood come from? "Not salted on the table, but salted on the head"?

Well approximately.)) Softened water leads to the rapid destruction of some types of dishes. Glassware, for example, becomes cloudy or becomes covered with rainbow stains (depending on the composition), detergent rinses off the dishes worse and similar little things. Do you like to wash in too soft water, when the shampoo does not rinse out of the hair, and the soap does not rinse off the skin? I'm not very good, but a matter of taste, of course.

Water cannot be "softened" in any way! Even if somewhere in St. Petersburg with naturally soft water, set the salt to the maximum. It's just that the dishes will rinse in overly salted water, but its Ph will remain the same.
The ion exchanger itself is responsible for softening the water. As it can, it softens. Salt is needed exclusively to restore its properties. It is impossible to double horsepower by sprinkling hay twice as much as it can eat. But you can easily reduce it to zero if you underfeed it.

It's just that the dishes will rinse in overly salted water, but its Ph will remain the same.

That's it, 6reik, I give up. Further 6 without me. Since you seriously believe that the salt from the bin in some magical way gets into the washing chamber and salt the dishes, then, as they say, there are no words, continue on.

And yes, give this clever advice

Water cannot be "softened" in any way! Even if somewhere in St. Petersburg with naturally soft water, set the salt to the maximum.

Petersburgers, in which glass blooms even with minimal settings, and run until you get it.

[passes]

Since you seriously believe that the salt from the 6-bin in some magical way gets into the washing chamber and salt the dishes, then, as they say, there are no words, continue on.

Please enlighten us dark ones how magically she is passes washing chamber?

Because the sodium in salt is not intended for washing, but for regenerating the resin. Water for washing enters the chamber through an ion exchanger, where ions of one metal (calcium) are replaced by ions of another metal (sodium). Well, ionic resins are designed in such a way that an acid (sulfate?) Group will certainly hold such an ion.

The bunker with salt is not involved in this process. But it participates in the regeneration of the resin - according to a certain algorithm, saturated brine from the 6-bin with salt in one or another amount (depending on our settings) enters the 6-bin with the resin and sodium ions from the brine displace calcium and magnesium ions from their homes. Then waste is discharged into the sewer... Moreover, the additional water consumption in this case can reach very significant values ​​- up to 4 liters (again, depending on our settings).

That's it, our resin has been cleared of the specified amount of carbonates and is ready for further use for softening. The water entering the chamber passes through an ion exchanger, where the carbonate ions again exchange places on the resin with sodium ions, and the circulation of ions in nature in a typewriter starts over ...))

Only iron, which is in the extreme right position in the row of activity, interferes in this process - sodium cannot displace it and the "gy6net" resin is not possible to restore it at home, there other reagents are required.

Over-softened water leads to the rapid destruction of some types of dishes. Glassware, for example, becomes cloudy or becomes covered with rainbow stains (depending on the composition), detergent rinses off the dishes worse and similar little things.

This is an erroneous judgment, if so, then distilled water should dissolve glass and ceramics and lead to cloudiness, but this does not happen (I have been storing distillation in glass for years)
Dishes become cloudy from 1) aggressive alkali, which is a detergent, 2) mild abrasives, for example calcium carbonate, which are part of most detergents for PMM 3) the above, plus a temperature of 50-60 * C
Hardness salts in water strongly interfere with the work of detergents, otherwise it would not soften. Ideally wash with distilled water, which itself is a detergent.

[over-softened]

After that, the otra6otka is discharged into the sewer. Moreover, the additional water consumption in this case can reach very significant values ​​- up to 4 liters (again, depending on our settings).

You just don't talk about it Caprice, their water is expensive! Can also beat!
And the chemistry of the process is also described correctly. But in what place of the wash cycle is it so imperceptibly for the user that as much as four liters of water is collected and ineptly drained, although a maximum of three fits into a modern machine?
Let's get back to our rams. From Wiki:
Water hardness is a set of chemical and physical properties of water associated with the content of dissolved salts of alkaline earth metals in it, mainly calcium and magnesium (the so-called "hardness salts").
Water with a high content of such salts is called hard, with a low content - soft.
By the value of the total hardness, water is distinguished between soft (up to 2 ° F), medium hardness (2-10 ° F) and hard (more than 10 ° F).
It turns out that by over-softened water with negative salt content?

More details about salt, means What can break in the dishwasher if ...
The structure of the dishwasher and how it works

This is a misconception, if so, then distilled water should dissolve glass and ceramics and lead to cloudiness, but this does not happen

Okay, then I will say in other words the same thing - softened water combined with detergents (and especially on hot programs). That's better?

You just don't talk about it Caprice, their water is expensive! Can also beat!

Okay, I won't.)) I'll send you to read the instructions to your own machine, where it is written by the Russians.

It turns out that water with a negative salt content belongs to the softened?

Well, you can catch on to this, if there is nothing else.))) Softened is softened in excess of the norm in this case.

More details about salt, means

Yeah, Andrey is an experienced craftsman. But not absolute perfection.

The structure of the dishwasher and how it works

And what's new there?

[Bijou]

Bijou, I live in St. Petersburg, washing dishes with "softened" water for more than 7 years, the glass is in place, the crystal too, there are microscratches, but as I said above, this is not from water but from detergent powder. Available on sale powder without abrasive "Crystal-fix" 🔗 but buy me "toad chokes"

[sazalexter]

sazalexter, what can I say, I'm glad for you, we have found a balance with detergents. I do not save on detergents and wash them hot, because I do not clean the dishes completely before starting. I have almost all of the dishes made of Luminarkov glass, when I set the hardness to the maximum, as it should be with my water, the rainbow began to climb quite quickly on the smoky plates. U6rala to the middle - sometimes the traces of drops on dishes are better than "the fruits of enlightenment". Now it doesn't seem to be getting worse and new dishes don't deteriorate. I tremble for the heater, of course, but sometimes I drive it away with acid, like in a washing machine. The car is 6 years old soon, while everything is alive (pah-pah).

But what kind of photos did people upload with the same dishes on Ho6ote - mamadaragaya !!! The gasoline is resting in a puddle ... There is only one advice - lower the hardness setting and the washing temperature.

The only thing that does not suit me (and, in principle, this is for all powders and tablets where the packaging is removed) is the smell! He certainly kills me.Open the machine after washing - and you leave for 10 minutes, until this chemistry disappears

Yesterday I bought the Finish dishwasher freshener (mandarin). You open the car really. smells like tangerine. 🔗
Before that I bought a claro, disgusting. I threw it out immediately.
I also read reviews that Finish powder is white, does not smell. but I haven't tried it myself.

Because the sodium in salt is not intended for washing, but for regenerating the resin.

And the hay is needed not for the cart to move, but for the horse to restore its strength later. An ordinary PMM user can influence the water hardness in the machine only upwards if the salt consumption is set to less than is necessary for the complete regeneration of the resin.

But what kind of photos did people upload with the same dishes on Ho6ote - mamadaragaya !!! 6 gasoline is resting in a puddle ... one advice - lower hardness settings and washing temperature.

Bad advice left and right! Need to expose correct hardness settings! The main thing is not to make mistakes in the smaller direction. In a large one - except for excessive consumption of salt, no contraindications. I agree with the use of special tools and lowering the temperature. And it is even easier not to use dishes that are not intended for washing in the PMM. I love to baffle the sellers of china shops with this question.

[in the sink]

And the hay is needed not for the cart to move, but for the horse to restore its strength later.

Do not juggle, the conversation was in response to your 6-appeal statement that salt is involved in the sink utensils and when they are salty water during washing 6, have you already?

Private the PMM user can only increase the water hardness in the machine, if the salt consumption is set to less than is necessary for the complete regeneration of the resin.

I didn't understand a word, I'm sorry. That is, the user can make the water harder than it was 6 before getting into the car ??

I argue that in most PMMs, the salted water that regenerated the ion exchanger does not drain into the sewer, but participates in the rinsing process. Many tovarischi who licked the plates in the process of mastering the machines can indirectly confirm this. With an excess of rinse aid or detergent, they are bitter. And if the salt is "twisted" - salty.
The user can make it not soft, as if the water passed through a fully functioning ion exchanger, but exactly as hard as in the water supply system. If you save on salt.

[Bijou]

Bijou, yes, I'm very interested in how it actually works there! And I want to present the chemistry of the process in detail.

Although the topic is old, but in this question the respondent Che can be trusted, nevertheless his high status in the 6сх company makes him understand what he is saying. ))

On ixbt, specialists, apparently of a higher level, laugh at such statements.

The quote from the instruction, of course, puzzled me! It seems to me that in this way manufacturers insure themselves against particularly zealous users. And in the end, someone will sue for the fact that the machine consumes not 8 liters, as in advertising, but as much as 12.And they answered the instruction tyts - "depending on the settings." Beko did not write that, depending on the settings, the program time "20 minutes" can increase to 30 minutes. Now we have a precedent.
And you can look at the end of the instruction, in the section "Problems and their elimination" "rainbow stains and cloudy glass" what is written?

Well, I'm such a skeptic. If they say “you can't do it”, then the question arises “why?”. If there is no clear answer, then it turns out "it is impossible, but if very hotzza, then it is possible!"

On ixbt, specialists, apparently of a higher level, laugh at such statements.

Duc must also filter who laughs and who understands what it is about. You and Valerik will soon cite commercials as an example, since he’s really good.

The quote from the instruction, of course, puzzled me! It seems to me that in this way manufacturers insure themselves against particularly zealous users. And suddenly someone will sue for the fact that the machine consumes not 8 liters, as in advertising, but as much as 12. And they answered the instruction tyts - "depending on the settings"

Uh-huh, when measuring the used water at one of the stages, an incomprehensible meter is found, I am trying to change the settings and measure it, suddenly something will change?)) But for a long time the car has been standing without salt - I just don't get to the store with salt in bags for ionization columns, it’s good at least the rinse aid ran out soon, now the water doesn’t enter the resin at all (in my particular car, see how I’m speaking correctly now?)

Looked at the instructions. There is no such point there. There is "swirls and metal 6 gloss" - a lot of rinse aid, "glasses became opaque and changed color" - an unsuitable detergent, "glasses became cloudy" - little rinse aid, well, about "6 white stains and plaque on milky glasses" - a whole scattering of versions , from under-screwed salt compartment to too hard water due to incorrect settings.

ABOUT! I found something interesting just on the subject of discussion! About rust on tableware. The first is clear - steel with low corrosion resistance. But the second is just it:

- The dishwashing water contains too much special salt.

Tempting, right?
Well, further explanation when this happens:

- The lid of the container with salt is not screwed on tightly
- Too much salt spilled during loading.

And suddenly someone will sue for the fact that the machine consumes not 8 liters, as in advertising, but as much as 12. And they answered the instruction tyts - "depending on the settings"

I thought now that this is not suitable - now almost everywhere there are auto programs, and there are washing algorithms to the fig and the amount of water is determined by an aquasensor. So it's hard to find fault, I guess ...

Duc must be filtered, who laughs, and who understands what it is about.

Well, if a dozen recognized experts say one thing, and quite reasonably, and one super specialist says the opposite, and only puffs out his cheeks to prove his words, then yes, he can be trusted!

"glasses have become opaque and discolored" - unsuitable detergent,

This is exactly our case - corrosion glass.

About rust on tableware. The first is clear - steel with low corrosion resistance. But the second is just it:

- The dishwashing water contains too much special salt.

And this is corrosion metal.

and one superspecialist says the opposite, and to prove his words, he only puffs out his cheeks

And who is this specialist and what does he declare such the opposite? Why haven't I read it? Can I have a link? (although 6y in a personal or ICQ, if modernism is so severe here)))

This is exactly our case - glass corrosion.

Yes, a lot can be summed up under this definition. ))) And interference too. But it is not in the descriptions. And on the plates - it is. Except that I have never seen a sweep in real life, only in the photo.

And this is metal corrosion.

It cannot be!

By the way, has anyone ever met detergents with a ban on washing glass in them? It seems, on the contrary, that a careful attitude towards glass and typy is declared everywhere.

In my opinion, your dispute has been somewhat delayed ...

In my opinion, your dispute has been somewhat delayed ...

Yeah, so smart, it's already scary to approach the typewriter now.