Vacuum packing machine

[Valera]

Valera, and what containers are suitable for the Solis packer, Caso?

In theory, they should fit, but you need to check.

(And Status containers are better and more convenient)

I have a Solis Vac Premium packer!
I really hope for friendship and joint cooperation

I'm still on the road, traffic jams are crazy, so the review will most likely be tomorrow)

Tell me about the terminology.
For example, Redmond-020 says 0.8bar vacuum.
DZ-280A / 2SE has 0.045Mpa and 0.06Mpa sticker models.
What does it mean?

Tell me about the terminology.
For example, Redmond-020 says 0.8bar vacuum.
DZ-280A / 2SE has 0.045Mpa and 0.06Mpa sticker models.
What does it mean?

These are the units of measure for pressure. 1bar = 10 ^ -5 Pascal
You have specified a Millipascal correspondence of 0.8 bar will be 0.08 Mpa.
The lower the value, the deeper the vacuum.
Simply put, from this data the best is 0.045Mpa

[fedex2go]

fedex2go,
The usual pressure that surrounds us is 760mm. rt. st = 1.01325 bar. With respect to this figure, the vacuum is 0%. If the pressure was 380mm. rt. Art. (0.506625bar), then the vacuum would be 50%.
If 1.01325bar corresponds to 0% vacuum then:
0.8bar corresponds to approximately 21% vacuum
0.045 MPa - 0.06MPa = 0.45bar - 0.6bar, which corresponds to 56% - 41% vacuum

Thanks for the information!

Based on the above, the older DZ-280/300 models, which had a vacuum marking of 0.035, created the best vacuum.
And in the updated DZ-280A / 2se they write that the vacuum has been "improved" to 0.045.

How is this to be understood then?
It turns out that the old 0.035Mpa models still removed the air better, and the updated 0.045 and 0.06Mpa - worse?

Something I'm confused ...

That is, Redmond 0.8bar creates the worst vacuum (21%) of all ??? (and all other household vacuumizers are also 0.8bar).

Here is a quote from Ali (advertised an improvement from 0.035 to 0.045): Limit vacuum vacuum machine from 0.035 Mpa is upgraded to 0.045 Mpa, heat wire by the 1 mm to the two 4 mm wide. This vacuum machine is commercial use of the best on the market at present, a vacuum machine, vacuum strength 0.045 mpa, 1.5 times that of the old one.

[fedex2go]

fedex2go,
Chinese ... such Chinese.
It's time to get used to being skeptical about any marketing nonsense. Marketers try to appeal not to knowledge, but to emotions, feelings of the user - since the number is larger, the better.
By and large, 0.8 bar is enough for evacuation - the main thing is not to leave air between the product and the film and to make the film fit snugly to the product. You are not going to engage in sublimation (product dehydration). But 0.6-0.45 bar is already necessary when you want the air to be pumped out of the initial upper layers of the product, or so that a thin vacuum film enters all the air "pockets".
Plus, again, you need to be skeptical about what characteristics the Chinese attribute to their units - 0.035, just like 0.045 is not always possible to achieve on these devices. At the same time, pumps for 0.035 and 0.045 in terms of size and noise should be different, because if the vacuum pumps are of the same size and noise, then the only thing that the Chinese could improve were gaskets, valves and put better quality magnets into the motors themselves, and then, to somehow attract the buyer, write that they have improved the vacuum. And in order to somehow illustrate this, they changed the numbers in the characteristics, although, in fact, nothing has changed.
The best vacuum at the household level and for such a price can only be created in a hand and not in a bag, but in a container, and the container must have sufficiently strong walls, and not be "film". For example, you can use the Marinator ... something there in 9 minutes, in which there is a container with very dense walls and a hand pump. I managed to get a vacuum and 90% in such a container, I did not dare further, because the container simply could not withstand a long stay in this state.
Of course, you can buy an industrial pump to create a vacuum, for example, one that is used to refill air conditioners or refrigerators, but the prices are different there, and look at their sizes.

Shl. Small addition. When the pleka is tightly adhered to the product, that is, there is absolutely no air film between it and the product, then we can assume that the vacuum is almost 100% in general. All the data that manufacturers give in the characteristics of vacuum sealers refer to the extent to which a given motor can create a vacuum in a container with rigid walls, i.e., with what force the motor itself works (by and large depends on the magnets in it) and how good his gaskets and valves are.

Sorry, but from your answer, I still don't understand why the Chinese write that 0.045 is better than 0.035

Based on your post above, the opposite is argued (less is better):

If 1.01325bar corresponds to 0% vacuum then:
0.8bar corresponds to approximately 21% vacuum
0.045 MPa - 0.06MPa = 0.45bar - 0.6bar, which corresponds to 56% - 41% vacuum

0.035MPa is better than 0.045MPa (Mega Pascal)
And the Chinese write this way, because they are Chinese, in order to somehow make the buyer understand that the new device is better than the old one. And for the mass user of tsiferki - the more, the better. Although, in fact, the new apparatus has the same motor, which creates all the same vacuum as the old apparatus.
This is modern and merciless marketing, that is, they are simply trying to deceive you, or, more culturally, mislead you into buying a new device if you already have an old one.

I think this is not about "until the pressure drops," but "with what force it pumps." And 0.8 bar in this case is much better than 0.045MPa. And even more so 0.035MPa

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, the characteristics of any vacuum pump imply what kind of vacuum it can create, not with what force it pumps. Otherwise it would be expressed in power, ie in "W" or "W".

Well then I don't understand either. Why the pressure of 0.8 bar in your opinion is weaker than 0.35 bar.

If the vacuum pump evacuates the vacuum chamber and evacuated half of all the air that was there, then the relative pressure created in the chamber is 0.5 atm., And if the same pressure is presented in absolute units, then it will be equal to 0.5 atm. That is, 0.5 atm. (rel.) = 0.5 atm. (abs.). If the pressure generated by the vacuum pump is indicated with a "-" sign, it means that the pressure is indicated in relative units

1atm = 1bar
Accordingly, 0.35 is a very weak vacuum (35%), but 0.8 is already not bad.
Or convince me so that I understand)))

0.8bar is 20% vacuum, 0.35bar is 65% vacuum
A vacuum is a space in which there is no substance. For simplicity, we will assume that there are no gas molecules.
Let's say there is a closed container of 1 liter. At a standard atmospheric pressure of 760mm. rt. st contains 2690 * (10 in 19) molecules, for brevity we will use just 2690 molecules. That is, these molecules, colliding with the INNER walls of the container and cause this very pressure. Now, what happens if the number of bolecules becomes 2152 pieces (80% of 2690 pieces)? That's right, the number of impacts of these same molecules on the INNER walls of the container will decrease, and the pressure inside the container will decrease accordingly. And this led to the fact that the pump in the evacuator pumped out 538 molecules and it cannot pump out more, since the motor force and sealing of the gaskets and valves are not enough to resist the influx of new molecules from the outside, i.e. as soon as it pumps out 539 molecules , immediately through the gaskets 1 molecule slips inside and again it turns out that he pumped out only 538 molecules. This condition corresponds to a vacuum of 20% and a pressure inside the vessel of 0.8 bar.
And what will happen if we have a motor that is able to pump out and maintain in such equilibrium not 538 molecules, but 1345 molecules (50% of the initial amount)? We will get a vacuum of 50% and this will correspond to a pressure of 0.5 bar.
Which evacuator is better - the one that can pump 538 and create a 20% vacuum, or the one that can pump 1345 molecules and create a 50% vacuum?

Friends, and you are not lost. Why litter the topic, write in a personal message, or is it a marketing ploy

[GuGu]

GuGu, Dear Natalia. Please, give a link to the points of the forum rules, where the criteria for "clogging" the topic are indicated. Believe me, there is no sarcasm in my request, I am really interested in these criteria. And under which of these criteria our discussion of the technical characteristics and the device of the vacuum apparatus, which better creates a vacuum, falls. Thank you in advance.

[iG8R]

Friends, and you are not lost. Why litter the topic, write in a personal message, or is it a marketing ploy

Actually, we didn't get lost.
To explain which values ​​are better. Or have you not read the beginning of this correspondence?
So let's continue. iG8R, a rarefaction of 5 atm in your opinion is less than 1 atm? No copying clever textbooks. I understand that you really like the Chinese packer, but judging by the indications, it is weak.
I would venture to insert a screen, but otherwise you will not understand apparently.

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, unfortunately, the screen is so tiny that you can't make out anything at all.
In vacuum technology, the characteristics of the vacuum itself are used, that is, what kind of vacuum can be created relative to a pressure of 101,325 Pa (1 atm) at a temperature of 20 degrees Celsius.
Vacuum is a specific value that shows how many molecules are in a given volume. These molecules create pressure on the inner walls of the container, and this pressure is written in the characteristics.
Under normal conditions (t = 20 ° C, p = 101 325 Pa), 1 cm³ of air contains approximately 2.69 * 1019 molecules. In physics and technology, it is customary to call such a state of a gas a vacuum when its pressure is less than atmospheric. Pressure from atmospheric to the lowest attainable is conventionally divided into four areas. These areas of vacuum are characterized by the ratio of the mean free path l of gas molecules to the linear dimensions d of the vessel in which the gas is located.
In the low vacuum region, the mean free path of molecules is many times less than the linear size of the vessel (l / d “1).
In the region of medium vacuum, the mean free path of molecules is comparable with the linear size of the vessel (l / d ˜ = 1).
In the region of high vacuum, the mean free path of molecules significantly exceeds the linear size of the vessel (l / d »1).
At present, the lowest pressure achieved is 10-13 - 10-14 Pa (10-15 - 10-16 mm Hg). In this case, the pressure of 1 cm³ of air remains only a few tens of molecules.
I will emphasize once again - "In physics and technology, it is customary to call such a state of a gas a vacuum when its pressure is less than atmospheric." If the standard atmospheric pressure is 1 atm, then I do not know what a "rarefaction of 5 atm" is.
And "without copying smart textbooks" - how's that? Who will outshout whom? Knowledge is knowledge and the criterion for everything is the knowledge that is recorded just in the basic textbooks.

[iG8R]

iG8R, just copying is one thing, but understanding what is written is another.
Google "negative pressure gauge" and carefully study the indicators on it.
I finished.

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, found, and? Have you seen the values ​​in which it is graduated? mbar - millibar, you know, miles - 1/1000, there is also in MPa, but there all the indicators of centi and deci have dimensions, even kPa, etc., but none of them goes beyond 1 atm. I can say so, I observe manometers every day in the cryolaboratory and I don’t remember any of them showing a "vacuum of 5 atm."
Show at least one negative pressure gauge, namely negative pressure, where the values ​​are calibrated in atm (atmospheres) and so that the value is greater than 1.

I would venture to insert a screen, but otherwise you will not understand apparently.

I apologize, the photo does not show what the scale is, would you be so kind as to indicate the units of measurement?

[iG8R]

iG8Rmaybe really enough? I didn’t force you to search in atm, find in bar. The bar is equal to the atmosphere. And don't cling to 5 atm, it's just a figure. I meant that -5 is more vacuum than -1

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, something you turned the wrong way. There is no -5 atm, and even -1.0000000000001 atm does not exist.
I repeat:
0.35 bar is better than 0.45 and even more so than 0.8 bar in vacuum technology.
Another question is whether these 0.35bar and 0.45bar are achievable on a Chinese device.

[Vlad_Ru]

Vlad_Ru, in MPa



iG8R, well. Forget everything I wrote earlier.
Forgot? Start over

It turns out that the old 0.035Mpa models still removed the air better, and the updated 0.045 and 0.06Mpa - worse?

No. The opposite is true

You have specified a Millipascal correspondence of 0.8 bar will be 0.08 Mpa.
The lower the value, the deeper the vacuum.
Simply put, from this data the best is 0.045Mpa

Indicated are not millipascals, but Megapascals. So 0.8 bar is 0.08 Megapascal, which is better than the indicated values. The LARGER the value, the deeper the vacuum.
Of the three options, the best is 0.8 bar
MPa Megapascal
mpa millipascal.

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, firstly, I have never stated that the data are calibrated in Millipascals, the message you quoted is not mine. If you look at my previous posts, I even indicated that the data is in Megapascals.
Secondly. Horses, people got mixed up ... In my very first message, I immediately brought all the values ​​to a single dimension, that is, translated into a bar. Ok, now let's convert to MPa
Redmond and others have 0.8bar - we get 0.08MPa
The Chinese vacuum cleaner has 0.035MPa and 0.045-0.06MPa.
So, the LESS the value, the deeper the vacuum. Therefore, 0.035MPa is better than 0.045-0.06MPa, and the previous value is better than 0.08MPa
You better listen to your own advice - "just copying is one thing, but understanding what is written is another."

[iG8R]

iG8R, and I did not say that the messages are yours. I asked you to forget everything and answered the one who asked the question. And at the same time he corrected the person who was mistaken with the values.
If you want, write to HP. I will prove to you on my fingers that the higher the number, the better. I'll even shoot a video. Tomorrow, if you will, at work.

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, now I'll explain on my fingers. The pressure is created by molecules that "beat from the inside" against the walls of the container.
Let's translate MPa figuratively into the number of beats per second. Let's say 0.001MPa is 1 blow per second, i.e. 1 molecule can hit 1 time per second against the inner walls of the vessel. Then:
0.035 MPa is 35 impacts, i.e. 35 molecules hit the inner walls 1 time in 1 second.
0.045 MPa is 45 impacts, i.e. 45 molecules
0.080 MPa is 80 impacts, i.e. 80 molecules.
Vacuum is when the LESS molecules, the BETTER.
35 molecules create a deeper vacuum than 45 molecules and than 80 molecules.
I ask you, do not disgrace yourself, read the physics textbook.

[iG8R]

iG8R, it suddenly dawned on me. For some reason, you decided that these values ​​are positive. Now, they are negative. Below zero. Otherwise, it is not a vacuum at all. I may be disgraced, but this is only by your logic
Of course, I will not read anything. I'm not a theoretician, I'm a practitioner.

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, in vacuum technology there is no graduation in negative values. Look at your favorite negative pressure gauge and show where the negative values ​​are.
And in general, only in theoretical physics, when calculating intra-atomic interactions, negative pressures can occasionally be used, and even then with great reservations.
The pressure is always expressed and graduated from 0 to .... in a certain step. The same negative pressure gauge from your own picture - from 0 to 0.1 MPa, that is, up to 1 atm, which means that everything up to 1 atm is considered negative pressure in technology without any "-" signs at the beginning.

[iG8R]

iG8R, in vacuum technology it is negative by default, this is a no brainer. In my picture, the scale goes from zero to the left. But that won't prove anything to you. Fast googling produces tons of images with negative values. You know. that newbies can not add external links and left pictures here. But here's to you

Everything I did what I could. If this does not convince you specifically, just do not confuse users with Chinese packers, to whom you are addicted (judging by your posts that resemble ads).

[M]

Honestly, I got into an old Soviet film about physicists and lyricists. Here is more a culinary forum. M this is in physics Mega, and m it's miles. Well, he himself got into the argument. Enough for today

[ZagOleg]

ZagOlegCan you tell the difference between a negative pressure gauge and a mixed gauge? Oh, Christmas trees ... some kind of obscurantism.At work, I have enough "practitioners" whose fingers and hands after a while have to be removed from centrifuges, cryochambers, grinders, etc.
Regarding my addiction to the Chinese vacuum degasser - I like everything that is practical and saves money. The price for smooth bags and specialized corrugated bags, hopefully no need to remind? Complete control over the evacuation and sealing time is another huge plus to practicality. And as for the depth of the created vacuum - so I did not think about it at all. A forum user asked - I explained in scientific terms, not "from my bell tower." Moreover, in the course of the explanation, I already mentioned that the figures provided by the Chinese should not be believed.

[iG8R]

iG8R, You will not solder smooth bags in a household vacuum (at the current rate it is up to 60 tons), alas. Only if with dances with a tambourine in the form of tubes, etc. (I solder it myself - with tubes). And even more so in Chinese. And everyone can buy inexpensive high-quality vacuum equipment when traveling abroad and return the tax-free. It will cost 2 tons. Buying on Ali is at the discretion of everyone.

Do we have a moderator in the topic? Can clean up the Temka a little ... well, or where to separate your polemics ...

[iG8R]

iG8R, and you can see not only what you want, but also that in the photo there are two mixed, one negative? Just admit that you were wrong, that 0.8 bar below zero is much better than 0.35 bar below zero. That you wanted the best, but unwittingly misled the person facing the choice of the packer. And stop poking at me with your professionalism, otherwise they take doubts.
I don’t know about the prices for the film, smooth ones do not suit me. I already wrote that I bought grooved 20x600 and 30x600. The first cost about $ 5.5 delivery, the second $ 6.5
Full control? I can also stop at any time if necessary. I don’t understand what other control we are talking about.

[Samopal]

Samopal, you know, I, and not only me, successfully manage to seal smooth bags with a Chinese vacuum machine for $ 56 (at a discount) and -8.5% cashback. At the same time, having bought 200 meters (yes, meters) of smooth film for $ 50.

[Song*]

Song*, a moderator is needed where there is a flood. And here is a dispute that, ideally, will lead to the right choice. What is the problem? When people ask a question, I dream of seeing a detailed answer. And sometimes they don't answer at all.

[ZagOleg]

ZagOleg, I repeat once again, in vacuum technology (not in mixed manometers) there is no concept - "below zero". Finally, read at least the Wiki article on what a vacuum is.

At the same time, having bought 200 meters (yes, meters) of smooth film for $ 50.

Well, here's the real savings, I agree.

[iG8R]

iG8RYes, you wrote earlier. I won't check it, I'll take your word for it. My vacuum cleaner will fail, I'll try it in Chinese. But when I was choosing a vacuum cleaner, after reading thousands of pages of forums, except for your information, I did not find anywhere else mentions about sealing smooth bags. But, if I have not found it, it does not mean that this is not possible. I will try again in the future. Thanks for the info anyway

Finally, read at least the Wiki article on what a vacuum is.

Since you were forced to read, read it yourself. Second option

There are several options for measuring vacuum, which depend on the choice of the reference point:
1. The unit is atmospheric pressure. Anything below one is a vacuum.
That is, the scale of the vacuum gauge is from 1 to 0 atm (1 ... 0.9 ... 0.8 ... 0.7 ... ..0.2 ... 0.1 ... .0).
2. Atmospheric pressure is taken as zero. That is vacuum - all negative numbers are less than 0 and up to -1.
That is, the scale of the vacuum gauge is from 0 to -1 (0, -0.1 ... -0.2 ...., - 0.9, ... -1).
Also, scales can be in kPa, mBar, but this is all similar to scales in atmospheres.

Read not only the first, but also the second.
I watched vidos about sealing in smooth bags, but it seemed to me dreary, because while I am not worried about this, I do not vacuum very much, therefore I have corrugated heads. But for the sake of economy, of course, you can take this device.

[Samopal]

Samopal, you are welcome
As I mentioned earlier, I have an evacuator on corrugated film - ProfiCook 1015 (its counterparts are Redmond 020, etc.), which I have been 8 years old. At the same time, I found the same evacuator for smooth bags, but it was sold in America and the cost of its purchase and delivery was equal to the 3rd ProfiCoock. Because there is something to blame. It continues to work in excellent condition.There was a problem with an elastic band on one side - it clung to it unsuccessfully and was kept like that for a long time, but it was corrected by placing it in a container and pumping out air, which "pulled" it back to its previous state.
So, I nevertheless decided to buy another vacuum cleaner for smooth bags, since the savings are significant, plus it is more convenient to work - it is not for me who decides when to stop sucking the air and seal the bag, plus, there are much fewer problems with vacuuming wet products, because Chinese is much more convenient and easier to clean.



ZagOleg, Have you seen the "-" (minus) sign somewhere in front of 0.8bar or 0.035MPa, 0.045-0.06MPa?
At the same time, for all the time that I have been working, I have never seen a negative pressure gauge in atm, maybe they were produced in the 1960s. Those 2 points refer specifically to "atm", in all other scales (kPa, MPa, bar, etc.) the values ​​are always positive.
I don’t remember exactly in what year the last meeting on the Standards of Weights and Measures (SI) was held, but in 1986 it was definitely decided to measure the vacuum pressure without negative values.

[iG8R]

iG8R, that is, this

Also, scales can be in kPa, mBar, but this is all similar to scales in atmospheres.

Is it written there for fun? You are an amazing person, I probably take my leave. Thanks for the informative communication.

[ZagOleg]

Guys, ZagOleg, iG8R, did you make my day or night?
Handsome)
On the culinary forum, such a topic !!! Just beautiful)))

I think they just decided to make fun of us!

for all the time that I have been working, I have never seen a negative pressure gauge in atm, maybe they were produced in the 1960s.

Well, you know - if you haven't seen it, this does not mean that they are not there now. And in the 60s, and in the 80s, and in the 2000s, they were and are being produced to this day. For example, the popular company ROSMA is now producing. It is called a "manovacuum meter" of a series, for example, TMV-510. The upper limit can be different, and the lower one is minus 1.
It looks like this:

[Alex_Fil]

Alex_Fil, let's go in order. As for the pressure gauge, as you might have noticed, it was a "negative pressure gauge", not a "Pressure and vacuum gauge", that is, a mixed type gauge, which I already mentioned above. Please indicate a vacuum gauge with a negative scale.
In general, initially, it was a question of what scale the vacuum technique is to be graded, "vacuum", and not "manometric" (pressure).
That is, how do they denote the ability of a vacuum motor to create a vacuum - with what sign.
And, please, do not take phrases out of context, but analyze the entire discussion as a whole, of course, if you still want to reach the truth, and not just troll.

[Alex_Fil]

Alex_Fil, let's go in order. As for the pressure gauge, as you might have noticed, it was a "negative pressure gauge", not a "Pressure and vacuum gauge", that is, a mixed type gauge, which I already mentioned above. Please indicate a vacuum gauge with a negative scale.

I was not going to troll you, I have nothing else to do at night. Here's the same ROSMA, a negative pressure gauge, that is, a vacuum gauge, TV-510

Sorry if you offended.

[Alex_Fil]

Alex_Fil, what are you, I did not come here for self-affirmation to take offense. I saw what I had never seen, although a lot of things passed through my hands.
And finally, regarding the calibration of vacuum motors, 0.8bar and 0.3bar - what pressure corresponds to the strongest vacuum.

The power of a pump is measured by the differential pressure it creates between the inlet and outlet. It doesn't matter if it works to create excess pressure above atmospheric, or lowers pressure relative to atmospheric. If we take the difference in bars as a measure of power, then the 0.8 pump will be more powerful than 0.3 bar. A scalar is used.