Vacuum packing machine

[Yulia]

I will learn to solder

Yulia, look, there was a video somewhere before - everything is very clear there what and how to do.

Thank you all, I watched the video, but I'll watch it again, I didn't catch the moment with the squeak.

but even when he didn't pull it out, everything worked out well too ... it works like that, and so, try gentlemen, let's see what and how will be better

Yes, we tried it too.) I posted a photo where the liner from the correct ribbed bag charmingly sticks off the smooth one after a while. But maybe the trick is that the initially ribbed bag is of good quality, so its outer side doesn't melt.

You can check your own by trying to solder a couple of scraps together "inside out" - if their smooth sides stick to each other, then everything is fine. Mine didn't even have a hint of sticking.

[to me]

I didn't catch the moment with the squeak

For the snorkel vacuum sealer DZ-280 / 2SE (like I remember correctly) the technology is as follows:
* First, the snorkel (tongue) sucks air.
** Then press the key with palms.
*** When you hold the sealing key with your palms, you wait for the device to beep.

/ ** / Sealing time is selected empirically.

For example, to me on a cold device, you must start with "5" or "4", and as it heats up (by 4-6 seals), I reduce to "2" .. If you do not decrease it, it melts my packages (not purchased)

[recommend 1 solder per minute]

If not reduced, then my packages melt (not purchased)

It is necessary to let the apparatus cool down (or rather a metal strip that heats up and melts the film), I already wrote: at Ellrona recommend 1 solder per minute! When the initial conditions are the same and there is no need to play with time.

[Various]

Ellrona's recommendation is 1 ration per minute!

So it is written about something else. Various packages melts for different time..

For example, those flat bags that came with the kit must be sealed to "4" ...

Does everyone melt 1 seam per minute?
The people who have a packer with a "nose", do you seal 1 seam per minute?

[Svetlana777]

I got my "frog". My first experience.

Everything worked out the first time. I'm happy with how

Thank you Svetlana777 for the "tip".

[Alla]

AllaPlease, I'm very glad that you liked it. With the purchase, even if it only pleases further (((washed it? .. otherwise they say this is a mandatory action, without it the technique is no-no

tip

I join.
Thank you.

Yes, we tried it too.) I posted a photo where the liner from the correct ribbed bag charmingly sticks off the smooth one after a while. But maybe the trick is that the initially ribbed bag is of good quality, so its outer side doesn't melt.

You can check your own by trying to solder a couple of scraps together "inside out" - if their smooth sides stick to each other, then everything is fine. Mine didn't even have a hint of sticking.

apparently it also depends on the vacuumator, I saw reviews where the tabs are then soldered off at the place of the soldering, therefore I suggest either pulling out this tape at the last moment before sealing, or quickly trimming the liner, and without it, do a control seal

[Anya]

Anya, Svetlana, Thank you.

tip

Not An, Svetlana to me for vodka not given.

(((washed? .. otherwise they say this is a mandatory action, without it, the technique is no-no

And the yak. Sprinkled a little.
Well, yesterday, to celebrate, did not examine the seam. And today this is what I discovered.

From the ends the seam is perfect, and the middle is with a "bracco".

Will this sealing time be not enough, or is the unit "defective"? I put it for 4 minutes.

she didn't give me vodka

Duc I do not mind giving for vodka, but better come pour

Will this sealing time be not enough, or is the unit "defective"? I put it for 4 minutes.

here you just need to get used to it, to manage to vacuum it so that the bag does not crumple, and it is trying to get together in the middle, that's why the sealing comes out like that. I also have this tongue, when snapped in, it does not always pop up quickly, I have to help. We must try and change the sealing time ... probably If the bag is thick, you can increase the time to try

apparently it also depends on the vacuumator

Uh .. what does the vacuumator have to do with it?

Uh .. what does the vacuumator have to do with it?

all vacuum generators have different power and they heat in different ways, if you look up at the message that is right above yours, they discuss a vacuum generator in which the heating time is generally set manually, the more expensive models have a dry and wet bag function, or something like that, too different power, in "Reply # 4554
and there, nearby, the neighboring ones are also discussing the first shev, not warmed up and colder, further warms more. This is what I meant

[garru]

garru, as I understand it, in such an intricate way you are trying to convey to me that your vacuum machine easily and simply welds two smooth outer sides of corrugated thick bags, which are not polyethylene at all, right?
And even post a photo for history to prove?

And then I just got a frozen kebab for dinner. I remember exactly that there was a vacuum. A month ago.)) Now I see a regular package, although all the seams look intact. In thought, I rub the seam between my fingers and lo and behold - there is an insert from the package. Double seam, tightly adhered working surfaces ... and a completely free hole on the smooth side.

Photo nada? I cut wide, just to keep it as a keepsake.

[Svetlana777]

Svetlana777, well, here I am.

🔗

... Well, what, let's go?

🔗

If the bag is thick, you can increase the time to try

I think the time was short.

[about]

From the ends the seam is perfect, and the middle is with a "bracco".

This is from creasing the bag over the tongue .... I solder over it with the second seam ..

By the way, on baboutWith a wider bag, this happens in several places, not just where the tongue is.

This is from creasing the bag over the tongue .... I solder over it with the second seam

Thank you. Now I will follow.

Photo nada?

Yeah.

Yeah

So you see? It seems to be the most successful shot. I pulled the "ring", and put my finger under the layer of corrugated film.))

It is seen.

Oh, the border is still normally visible. And even traces on the free edge in the places of the former fast ice.))

Well, what, let's go?

garru, as I understand it, in such an intricate way you are trying to convey to me that your vacuum machine can easily and simply weld two smooth outer sides of corrugated thick bags that are not polyethylene at all, right?
And even post a photo for history to prove?

Not at all, you were puzzled by this question, I just offered you an option because of what it might be, and why are you soldering both layers? one corrugation is enough, I still have little experience in this, I have read only one theory above the roof, and from what is in my head, I wrote it seems to me convenient to pull out the liner before sealing, or cut off the liner under the spine after the first sealing and make a control seal above without any inserts. By the way, today I tried from branded bags there was a trim, it has 2 sides, the one that is smooth, did you say about it that it is not soldered? I folded it in half, I didn't get soldered on the cold vacuumator the first time, I didn't even see a trace, I turned on the mode for a wet bag, the heating takes half longer, so everything is perfectly soldered. just what is it for? I can't send a picture, few posts links are not allowed

you were puzzled by this question

Yes? Well, excuse me if I misled you.) In my opinion, the first thing I did when I got a vacuum cleaner into my house was to try to shove a flap from a standard one into a smooth bag. The trick did not work, the next step was to make sure that it was exactly the smooth outer side - I folded the two outer sides to each other, got a puff and completely threw it out of my head. For a long time. Until Anna began to tell here that she uses this method. And I decided to try again.)) And in the case of the kebab it almost worked.

In short, I see no reason to translate a normal film in this lottery - it is better and easier than with a tube, I have nothing to solder.

there was a trim from the branded bags, it has 2 sides, the one that is smooth, did you say about it that it is not soldered?

Did you speak or show?))

I'm talking about the outer side of the bag, about which it was said three hundred times here that it can be made of a completely non-fusible material. But I know that there is an economy version of bags in which one wall is corrugated, as expected, and the other is smooth. Sorry, I didn't quite understand what you were talking about. You soldered with the grooved side out and welded firmly, right?

Just don’t start again about the fact that my vacuum unit is poorly soldering - it normally solders, since it welds the tubes in the air.
I don't consider it necessary to pull the flaps through the sponges of the vacuum chamber, so alas, this dashing method is not for me. Of course, I am a recognized crash tester and I like to make fun of the technique, but not to that extent.))

And I will not adapt in any way to solder without incident.
Today, vacuuming a piece of beef for suvid, put the product "wet", tried both "turbo" and "norms", it still sucks liquid into the chamber and, therefore, does not seal well. After all, I want to pump out more air, but it does not work. As a result, she pressed start, and then, without waiting for her to finish the process of pumping out the air, she pressed forcibly "solder". I don't know if I'm doing it right, but these dances with a tambourine annoy me a little.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong ?! Please share your experience.

I see no reason to translate a normal film in this lottery - it is better and easier than with a tube, I have nothing to solder.

And today it was just good for me at first it was sucked and sealed, and then, during the cooking process, a hole formed at the place where 1 strip was soldered. The second is deadly sealed. Apparently, we will have to return to non-woven fabric. I can't do it with pipes either. Or the tubes are not the same (not black, colored).

completely non-fusible material

For the sake of truth, I have to correct: the material is most likely fusible. but under different conditions (the temperature is higher than that achieved in your vacuum unit). True, when this temperature is reached, low-temperature materials will be incorrectly soldered, they may even undergo destruction at temperatures that are too high for them ...

I didn't quite understand what you were talking about. You soldered with the grooved side out and welded firmly, right?

the bags came with a vacuum apparatus, not budgetary, why use the second side of the bag for inserts, which is simply superfluous there, well, smooth, why is it even needed when inserting? you need a corrugated one, which lets air through itself, and a smooth one is an extra gasket, you excuse me, as it all does not work out to understand each other
And today I just tried soldering, I don’t know why, probably because you touched on this topic, the side part is smooth and does not seem to be soldered. What happened is above

[Igrig]

Why use the second side of the package for inserts, which is simply superfluous there, well, smooth, why is it even needed when inserting?

Do you understand yourself ?? The film is two-dimensional! It has a smooth side (outside) and a corrugated side (inside, intended for welding). How do you propose to separate them?

Igrig, accepted.)) Yes, of course this is a convention caused by the limitation of our conditions. Somehow this whole sandwich was soldered together at the plant.

The film is two-dimensional! It has a smooth side (outside) and a corrugated side (inside, intended for welding). How do you propose to separate them?

Lena, maybe we are talking about bags with Ali, where one side of the bag is corrugated, and the other is smooth? And in the tape cut from the used bag, the smooth side of the bag is removed? And not about the smooth back of the grooved side of the bag?

[Anna1957]

Anna1957, but who knows what it might go about. I specifically indicated that there are normal packages with two corrugated walls, and there are economy options for saved raw materials, that is, where strips are squeezed on one half.)) So there can be no discrepancies here, more "we agreed on the shore."

And you have so long and sealed, right? Hike, lucky you.
But I don't care the tubes are nicer - they are always at hand, you don't need to cut them off from the whole (I have the halves sticking out in the glass right away), if the whim comes to make a second seam in a clean field, then plucking the tube out with scissors is easier than being careful with non-woven or film , and the tube at this moment can be pinched with your fingers through the bag. More precisely, it is already flattened most often, it is enough to clamp it so that an accidental suction does not occur. In the case of non-woven fabric, it always confused me that there was no way to control it.

And you have so long and sealed, right?

No, I'm just evacuating for a sous look. Do you use black tubes?

Black? No, I have no black ones. I have a pack of 100-year-old bright multicolored ones from a stall with disposable dishes and I also took a few cheap striped tubes from Ribbon to try. They seem to be a little thinner than mine, they were sealed normally.

By the way, about peas and non-woven. Well, here they laughed at me when I laid out a picture with a full bag of peas.)) There was also a non-woven, moreover, without trimming, that is, two seams on all layers. So, after the selection of cereals, re-soldering according to the same algorithm did not bring happiness to Bijusa - gradually the air still filled up. After the next soup, I will solder it to the pipe.

[non-polar polyethylene does not bond with polar polymer used as a barrier layer such as EVOH or PA]

Somehow this whole sandwich was soldered together at the plant.

Quote about multilayer films: "Therefore, for example, non-polar polyethylene does not bond with polar polymer used as a barrier layer such as EVOH or PA. Therefore, to connect these layers, it is necessary to use binding layers. Polyolefin copolymers modified with maleic anhydride are most often used as universal binders. If the layer has a similar structure, then the adhesion occurs as a result of the diffusion of similar polymers. "
Well, the equipment there is a little more complicated than our vacuumizers ...

[Natusichka]

Natusichka, I think you have two options
1. If the evacuator supports the "wet" mode, then solder it on the machine, then wipe it with a napkin between the layers of the film above the soldering and in this place, which eventually became dry, solder by hand.
2. As practice shows, a little remaining air is not a hindrance for suvid. If only the package does not pop up. That is, if you do it on the edge of the table so that the bag hangs down, you can draw off almost all of the air.

Today, vacuuming a piece of beef for suvid, put the product "wet", tried both "turbo" and "norms", it still sucks liquid into the chamber and, therefore, does not seal well.

Galina, if I remember correctly .. then all evacuators have a groove for a random liquid .. and a "pip" pumping air above the groove level .. (so that the liquid would get into the unit itself, you still need to try)
the "wet product" button does not protect from anything .. it's just sealing a little longer ..
to make the seam stronger .. if suddenly a drop of liquid gets there .. then it will have time to evaporate ..
to be honest, it's a very handy function ..

if you are interested to read here on this forum it was all discussed on page 181.
So don't be intimidated by wet bags

maybe we are talking about packages with Ali, where one side of the package is corrugated, and the other is smooth? And in the tape cut from the used bag, the smooth side of the bag is removed? And not about the smooth back of the grooved side of the bag?

This is what I meant

[Dmitriy]

Dmitriy, garru, thank you very much, opened my eyes a little to what was happening, I'll run to page 181, read it.

maybe we are talking about packages with Ali, where one side of the package is corrugated, and the other is smooth?

Now I don't understand ... I bought bags for a vacuum sealer at Ozone. There, one side is corrugated and the other is smooth. It turns out that these are not the correct packages?

[Ksarochka]

Ksarochka, Ozone usually sells bags with 2 corrugated inner surfaces. And the outer surfaces on both sides of the bag are smooth. On Ali, there are bags with only the 1st corrugated inner surface, the 2nd wall is smooth on both sides.

Ozone usually sells packages with 2 corrugated inner surfaces.

strange, I was not too lazy, I went and got the Ozonovsky ones and compared them with those with Ali, and here and there one surface is smooth, and the second is corrugated (only the riffling is different and that's it)

This means that they are different and on Ozone. I bought it for a long time, about 2 years ago.

I went and got Ozonovskie and compared it with those with Ali, and here and there one surface is smooth, and the second is corrugated

I took STATUS packages from Ozone. They have one side smooth and the other grooved. And the Ellrona FreshVACpro and CASO packages, which I also bought at Ozone, have both corrugated sides.

So we figured it out.

[There is not even a hint of gluing.]

non-polar polyethylene does not bond with polar polymer used as a barrier layer such as EVOH or PA. Therefore, to connect these layers, it is necessary to use binding layers.

Ha. Bijou is corrosive, Bijou has now gone and tried to solder the outer sides of cheap bags for chamber packers. They look thin, it seems, well, where does the multilayer come from? But no!

4! 4 times in a row I pressed a long (wet) seal so that everything was heated there. Even the beginning to squirm under the iron.))

Figo! There is not even a hint of gluing. But the inner polyethylene was "soldered" to the soldering iron itself. That is the same barrier layer even in these tiny sachets.

Although in reality it probably has one more function - so that it does not stick to the irons.)

[Bijou]

They look thin, it seems, well, where does the multilayer come from?

I do not believe that the corrosive Bijou there is no micrometer and it determines the thickness only by sight !?
Quote: "multi-layer allows to obtain films with very thin individual layers (2-5 microns), which is unattainable using other methods (lamination or caching). In combination with substrates made of strong polymers (PP, PA, PC, PET), layers can be formed from low-strength polymers of such a small thickness (5-15 microns), which is completely impossible when producing single-layer films from the same plastics. "

I don’t believe that the corrosive Bijou doesn’t have a micrometer and it only determines the thickness by sight !?

No, like no ... I should buy it, right?
_______
Clear. That is, layering is just the reason for subtlety. Well, it's logical, if you think about it ... But after the well-fed regular packages, the look of the smooth ones is somewhat depressing.)

But after the well-fed regular packages, the look of the smooth is somewhat depressing.

Packages with corrugation, most likely, only in appearance seem thicker, just due to "bending" (corrugation), stiffening ribs are formed, which give impressiveness to the film. This is where the micrometer would help to establish the ultimate truth! Oh, and a necessary thing in the household!
From time to time, right up to colic, I feel a terrible need for a caliper, well, I really want to ... And then I don't.

From time to time, right up to colic, I feel a terrible need for a caliper, well, I really want to ... And then I don't.

And Bijou has a caliper! Therefore, she also "does not feel".))

Oh, and a necessary thing in the household!

And about the thickness .. You can cut and weigh the same area. Well it will become clear.
* just in case - Bijou also has small scales

And I have a caliper and a compass and a micrometer ..... I hope there is, I gave it to my husband in the garage, as if tore it from my heart.