Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

Natal, well, take a picture ...

Oh, Rita, thanks!

And Rita described it in a completely different way. I think it's a matter of the manufacturer.

And this is also important for understanding, thanks!

Natasha, come in

Flax, I'm going, yeah

[Julia.]

Julia..

1.What is sourdough? it is just a substitute for industrial yeast, lifting power in terms of HP. Sourdough bread gets the same yeast, only different in strength + beneficial bacteria. Sourdough can be compared to dough.
The difference with industrial yeast is in the unpredictable time and strength of the rise of the dough, so they say that it is difficult to bake such bread in KhP. It is unclear whether they will fit into the HP mode, or will not fit.

Therefore, you have to control the rise of the dough.
You can make it easier for yourself if you add a little yeast to the sourdough so that you can drive the rise within a certain framework and you can bake it on the machine.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0

and now they also came up with
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=142494.0
you can also take yeast and add old dough, for example ... it will be delicious too,
2. Though yeast, even leaven, or anything, nobody canceled the kolobok rule. With any additions, by the end of the batch, there should be a beautiful, beautiful live bun. Otherwise, it will be nonsense that is not mixed.

3. Actually, Raisin has a great advice to lay the leaven between flour and water.
Especially if you do not mix immediately. Better intervene

[Vitalythank you Yulia, not badly burned, but already there, 2501]

Vitalythank you
Yulia, not badly burned, but already there, 2501

I saw a question about malt.

If you are talking about rye bread, then the malt, which is dark (red), already there the so-called "fermented", that is, dead in Russian, has no effect other than color and taste. The only thing, malt - should be perceived as just a heavy flavoring addition to bread, which must be raised either by yeast or sourdough.

Norms are ordinary red malt at the rate of 20-30 g per 500 g of flour, but if you like ... you can do more, if only your starter dough can cope with the rise of the additive.

And .. I will quote
Bakery trick! It is no secret that rye or rye-wheat breads are quite low due to their low gluten content. If you love the taste of rye bread, but its fluffiness and volume are also important to you, then use malt! Wheat-rye bread with malt will taste like rye bread, but it will remain quite high due to the prevalence of wheat flour.
light live malt is a very serious addition. Completely different. But as I understand it, now it's not about her, but about the red killed

I saw a question about malt.

Lena, I'll take a look, I haven't opened the package yet
if you want for the weekend, I'll spread out several types of flour and click on the chorus. fotik?
Judging by the price, it must be so written about ... that fermented for bread and gingerbread, dark brown. I just want my beloved to find a version of bread. I already found it for myself, but there is no whey anywhere ... I buy mozzarella or today I bought feta cheese in a rassle ... I think to take a chance later.

[Nika]

Nika... it depends on what you want. If the conversation is about wheat ... and so on, that is, so that flour prevails in. with., then add what you want, but so that in. from. half remained.
That malt, that nuts, that rye - load on yeast and gluten in. from.

And if you want to make rye ... here I am not your advisor, for a hundred years I have not bothered with it.

Added on Friday 17 Mar 2017 03:18 PM

I'm talking about fermented red malt. A bright lively one can change a lot. You have to be careful with him. At the forum, rummage. I haven't studied this issue properly.I only know that you must not handle him carelessly.

[Linen]

Linen, no, I don’t want pure rye, I wrote a spoonful of everything, but I don’t know in sun or 1s ...

and what am I to you - a psychic?
in. from. I would definitely cope if its half, and 1C - well, which one you bought. In practice, you will find out

yes, it seems like I was already baking noodles on it ... nothing, I'll take them on the legs and the rest on a spoon, I think there will be enough malt, since Julia writes that it turns out black ...
Today I will definitely not do anything ... I will intercede in the night ...
but on the weekend I'll take a chance, bake a little

so ... what are you thinking, great Experimenter? see malt check. And then suddenly alive with you. And alive is terribly dangerous for V. from.

Added Friday 17 Mar 2017 03:25 PM

and 1C, for all wheat ...

so ... what are you thinking, great Experimenter? see malt check. And then suddenly alive with you. And alive is terribly dangerous for V. from.

do you think it is worth "dunk"?

only brewers soak it properly. Everything is complicated there. Don't ... if you have a live one, then don't come close to wheat bread with it, go get the red fermented one.
Or study the theory of how much white and how.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, I meant to soak - to nail It is written on the pack that add 1 tablespoon of CP to 300 g of wheat and 200 g of rye flour, which means they have already killed

fermented ... and then the horror films are already beginning, and then yes .. here we are discussing, you can have a lot of corpse or just a little
but alive, no, no, will be dirty,
but I read that you can soak a white live one in the tea leaves and then the rye bread will be juicier and so on.
But mochilovo is possible only for custard rye bread, it will not help for wheat bread.

[Linen]

Linen anyway, everything tomorrow, thanks ...

[Nika]

Nika, did you bake Ritin Borodinsky in a small Fillet? Be sure to try. I didn't like him in Panas. But you can also bake in HP. I can't insert the link. Look at the recipes at Rita Mamusi.

[Nika]

Nika, did you bake Ritin Borodinsky in a small Fillet? Be sure to try. I didn't like him in Panas. But you can also bake in HP. I can't insert the link. Look at the recipes from Rita Mamusi.

hu from Rita Mamusi, Light? I drink coffee today Magadzhika bought ... a little

[Nika]

Nika, Rita posted a photo of flour. She has a great recipe. ... Ritual

Here Natashin Daily baked it on 1st grade flour + 1 spoon of rye + 1 liter c / s. By weight, only 400 g of flour.
Exposed a dark crust, M, Basic.

Posted on Friday 17 Mar 2017 4:08 pm

Natasha, thank you again ...
There will be a cut after cooling down, I'll throw it off the topic!)))

[Nika]

NikaRita appeared. Rit, give me a link to your Borodinsky.

Added on Friday 17 Mar 2017 04:10 PM

Whoever doesn't know him yet will bake it.

Tell me how to make the crust and roof of plain white bread very crispy? Children love to crunch, but I have only the bottom of the bread and the bottom crunch, and the roof is always soft. I tried both the French regime and low-yeast and basic, the result is always the same.

What kind of towel do you cover hot bread? I cover with a linen towel and until I stuff the bread into the cellophane, the crusts are all crispy except the top. And if you cover it with terry, it seems like there will be soft crusts.

hu from Rita Mamusi, Light? I am drinking coffee

It's me, if that !!!)))
and polite, polite ...

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, Thank you
No offense, girls at me, I slow down ..., but "The enemy does not surrender ...."

[$ vetLana]

$ vetLana, Sveta, I'm on the phone.
I will not insert the active one.

It's me, if that !!!)))
and polite, polite ...

Sorry, if something offended
everyone crawled away cry

I'm calling from phone.
I will not insert the active one.

Here is this bread!?!?

Khlebushek Borodinsky "Love from the first crumb" (multicooker Redmond RMS-02)

[Waist]

Waist,

[And certainly males.]

What kind of towel do you cover hot bread?

Well, a paragraph! I see the discussion has reached a very high level of subtlety.
Pleased.

How this happens with winter fishermen.

- Pecked only on jigs "black ant" with a 2.5 hook and a green ring. Moreover, it was required to put on them no more than two bloodworms 16-18 mm long. And certainly males.

- And how to distinguish a male moth?
- Well, of course! There are two well-known and practical ways to do this ...

There is no whey anywhere ... I buy mozzarella or today I bought feta cheese in a rassle ... I think to take a chance later.

Nika: 1 liter of kefir + 1 liter of milk you pour into a saucepan in the evening. The night stands. In the morning you put it on the stove, on a small fire. In a few minutes you get the freshest cottage cheese and WHEY.

Added on Friday 17 Mar 2017 08:47 PM

I am drinking coffee

... And we

[Sveta]

Well, I'm with my slippers.
Looking at the reaction, the malt topic somehow aroused interest.

I remind newbies who keep forgetting that the forum is full of information and has a search bar

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8003.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=372599.0

But as a devoted fan of Sergei and Lyuda
I can not help but send to my favorite place, search on Google
"Making infusions from rye flour. BREAD & BREAD."

Added on Friday 17 Mar 2017 11:18 pm

AND.. Sveta, I'll get in again.

Serum serum strife. All its value for baking is in keeping bacteria alive. And they hate, like all living things, strong heat and strong cold.
Therefore, when receiving serum, try to treat it as if it were alive. Do not boil, do not freeze. Only then will you get a fabulous serum, unique and useful.

Otherwise, there is a lot of all kinds of calcium, substances and so on, but now there is no life. This means that there will not be that wonderful effect of adding it.

Added on Friday 17 Mar 2017 11:39 pm

Good day to all! Tell me how to make the crust and roof of plain white bread very crispy?

In essence, as a crust lover, I do not cover the bread at all, but let it cool on the wire rack and the crusts are eaten as soon as possible.
When the bread is cut, I put the cut side on the bag, film, and the crusts on top in the air.
Yes, of course the bread dries like this faster, and you need to eat it quickly, but it doesn't soften.

But if the cooled version without any towels does not suit you, then
you can't do anything for me. There is no grill on top, which means that additional frying will not be possible.

You can of course not add milk, use the classic French recipe. It is so minimalist, just so that the crusts are not delicious.
But this is not a fundamental decision if you want even more crunch. Then you need to bake in the oven, under the grill. Make toasts.

[Waist]

Good day everyone. Sorry, I have little time, as always
Flax at Admin recipe for the amount of all the ingredients for the brew, the flour-liquid-malt ratio.

I chose the optimal ratio for myself, as it seemed to me:
90 g rye wallpaper flour
30 g fermented (red) malt
2 tsp (2 g) ground coriander
300 g of water
I found explanations on the site:
To prepare any tea leaves, in order to accelerate the sugar formation processes and obtain a guaranteed and predictable saccharification result in just 1.5-2 hours, the process must be divided into the following stages:
Before making flour, separate up to 10% of the flour or all the malt (if white is used in the recipe) - this is a saccharifying component;
Boil the flour with boiling water and cool to 65C;
Add the saccharifying component to the infusion and keep the infusion at 63-65C for 1.5-2 hours;

Cool the finished saccharified brew to the required temperature and use it in accordance with the recipe.

Okay, I'll do it, and then how to calculate the water in the bread, because there is already water in the tea leaves? And on what mode the beam received to bake?

Added Saturday 18 Mar 2017 11:01 AM

And we

Added Saturday 18 Mar 2017 12:44 PM

Waist, https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=389317.0

Posted Saturday 18 Mar 2017 12:59 PM

Yes, found
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=184755.0
It's more for Vit https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1084.0 Brains in a heap, I didn't understand anything about liquid here ...

[Nika]

Nika, yes, fig what do you add to the dough, the tea leaves there, just something else, the final kolobok should always be correct. For wheat bread, round, plump, smooth and lively, for rye - see Admin.
You take all the ingredients in one pile along with the tea leaves and then add moisture to a normal kolobok.

As for 1C and moisture .. There is 1C, which is so weak that it releases water later during fermentation. But it is very rare now, 1C with such an effect. Unless it's just for you.

And so you need to follow the kolobok rule, not paying attention to the tea leaves and so on. The gingerbread man must always be correct.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, thank you, dear, went to create
Flax, maybe on a dietary one, I'll be on sun + rye + tsz

No problem. Diet is a great regimen. Gentle batch, long fermentation. It will be cooler to taste.
The main mode is the most primitive between us. One advantage is that it is faster.

No problem. Diet is a great regimen. ...

I decided to insure - added 3 years alive. cheese. yeast. The gingerbread man is liquid, although I took 20 g less water than in the recipe, I had to mix in flour. 2 hours left, the gingerbread man is handsome, but practically did not rise, maybe it should be so ...

Warm slices

You are all on the wrong track. Methodically incorrect and practically unpromising.

[Konstantin]

The bread is delicious, fluffy, crumb, like in childhood, rolls in my hands, I'm out of the habit of this, it's cool. Sorry was cut still warm, well, I could not resist ... I waited 7 hours I think you can not add yeast, because flour and malt are decent and 2 hours of nursing was enough, take less water. Moreover, the bread rose already in the baking process. After weighing, I was surprised, 1100 almost turned out to be a loaf.

Added Saturday 18 Mar 2017 08:49 PM

Konstantin,

Konstantin,

The methodological error of the entire discussion that has arisen here is that they are trying to drive new recipes into a ready-made program. Whereas it should be done the other way around.

Recipe -> technology -> checking the possibility of automation -> a program that implements this technology.

I think you can not add yeast, because flour and malt are worthy and 2 hours of nursing was enough, take less water. Moreover, the bread rose already in the baking process. After weighing, I was surprised, 1100 almost turned out to be a loaf.

Explain more clearly why you decided not to add yeast. Flour and malt, which are worthy, have nothing to do with raising bread. Either yeast or sourdough is responsible for raising the bread, or they are both taken
You write casually
Moreover, the bread rose already in the baking process. After weighing, I was surprised, 1100 almost turned out to be a loaf.

There is strong growth on baked goods only if there was little proofing. That is, the bread was still determined to ferment and ferment, or to continue to be lazy, I don’t know for what reason the lifting resources slept sweetly during fermentation, and you gave the sourdough, yeast or whatever worked for you when you heated it by sharp heating of the pendal. Maybe it was just the yeast that went through.

Added Sunday 19 March 2017 00:36

In fact, I have such a seditious thought that the miracle of technology in the form of HP relies on industrial yeast, that is, an element brought up in a Suvorov state institution, due to their mood to shove ahead, despite all the user's quirks, in a strictly calculated time frame.
And any sourdough brought up in self-indulgence itches for a long time and ponders: to raise or not to raise bread in two hours, or maybe she is in a mood today for five hours, or she is generally angry with you and will change her mind today

And in general, what kind of disrespect is it, to poke her into some kind of tough regime like a rootless

Therefore, to shove the leaven without yeast (at least these slaves will do part of the work for it on time), even if it is a dietary one, and demanding it work on time is a very self-confident arrogance

Hello everyone...with great difficulty and a waste of nerves, all the same, I managed to get here from the phone ... I thought I would grow old while I was waiting ... the question arose: how to replace milk with sour cream in a stove recipe for milk bread? How much sour cream do you need and how much water? (Homemade fatty sour cream if it is important) ...
But I just don't know when it will work out and whether it will even work out here again.

[Konstantin]

Konstantin, clearly

[Dark steppe eagle]

Dark steppe eagle, make a chatterbox to the same volume as milk. I would put 3 spoons, the rest is water.))))

[Lena]

Good day everyone Thanks for the advice. Lena, and the leaven is made on rye. flour with malt (I took another 1.5 tsp of cardamom). Moreover, according to the recipes, if there is a good leaven, then yeast is not added, I decided to play it safe and put a little. Kept for 2 hours at 65 gr. in a thermos.
If anyone is interested, In addition to the leaven, I took 100 g of rye flour, 50 g each CZ and 1C, and 250 g BC, 210 g of water (230 in the recipe), but in my case, the liquid must be reduced further. The sourdough was placed between the flour and the liquid. Baked in L, dietary. Next time I will replace another part of the aircraft with 1s. The bread is very interesting, fingerprints remain on the hot one, it is somehow viscous, alive, perhaps because of malt, taste and sensation, as in childhood I will interview my son and mother later, and my husband, spreading a sandwich, said that you can add more salt ... She said she was stuck ...

Added Sunday 19 Mar 2017 10:53 am

WLAD, I'm not special, but I bred one st. spoon 200 ml. water com. temperature.

[Margarita]

Margarita, Nika, thank you very much

[WLAD]

WLAD, as NaTaliya and Lena repeat, that only by trial ...
I decided to make a raid on "Lenta" and from 1 s only "365" rejected by Vit, but bought flour M / 75/23 of general purpose, which is equal to 1 s. So I think, not to risk on rye, but you can bake Natalyin daily, but diluting the sun, 1s.

Though yeast, even leaven, or anything, nobody canceled the kolobok rule

I kneaded the dough with sourdough by hand (well, how did I "knead" ... mixed the ingredients))) then I had not yet seen the post about laying the sourdough between flour and water) and put it in a bread maker. On the French bread mode. It turned out such a cool "pebble")) This time there were no problems with the knife: the heavy loaf fell out easily under its own weight, and the knife stuck tightly to the bucket))) Yes ... it doesn't smell like airiness, especially if you compare it with the first bread , baked strictly according to the instructions. The cut of the starter version dries quickly and becomes hard. Is this a feature of such bread? And if you stand it longer, right in the bucket, and then turn on the oven right away? Or will the coating deteriorate from prolonged contact with the dough? Theoretically, it would be possible to manually knead the dough, then knead it on the "dumplings" and set the clock to 5-6 on the "service mode", as in your reference. I'm worried about coverage ... or in vain?)
About malt - yes, it was the usual dark, from a bag)

ingredients for making tea leaves, flour-liquid-malt ratio.

Oh, but I didn't brew the malt ... I just mixed it with flour, rye and white, dry. Is it tastier when brewed, or does it change its properties?)

how to distinguish a male bloodworm?
- Well, of course! There are two well-known and practical ways to do this.

Tell me, what are the ways?))) We stopped at the most interesting place, Google does not help, but it’s curious!)))

[Yulia]

Yulia, there they gave tabs above (sorry I fall asleep on the fly)
site BREAD & BREAD theme "Making infusions from rye flour." there I read everything. I have a brown-red malt, making a sourdough:
80 g rye flour
25 g fermented (red) malt
1.5 tsp. (1.5 g) ground coriander
250 g of water
Spazu added malt, flour and coriander to a thermos. Zalml everything with boiling water and left to cool to 68g, closed the thermos (to get the desired 65 °) for 2 hours. Next time, maybe I'll put the tea leaves in the multicooker. After 2 hours, I opened the thermos. while preparing flour, ingredients, she cooled down, honestly did not check the 35 * C set by technology. Julia, I added 3 St. yeast.And then I wrote that I took different flour down, from above the sun, salt, sourdough and sour cream diluted with water ... That's it. But in my case there was a lot of liquid, I had to add it. The flour is different for everyone. Good luck. : drinks_milk: Let's go buy.

there they gave tabs above

Yes, I read it, albeit with a delay) It's just that the article contains an experiment: saccharification for 6 hours and 2 hours. And it is written that the result is the same. I thought that maybe you tried both without brewing, and with brewing, so I decided to ask. I'll try to brew next time. I'll tell you if there will be a difference. It's just that if you don't need to do some action, then it's better to save time ...)))
I will not distract you anymore. Goodnight!

[Yulia]

Yulia, come on, I wanted to try it, just without brewing, as it says on a pack of malt, now I don’t know ... is it worth the risk ... since you didn’t succeed. There is a lot of information, but it's hard to figure it out. I read girls Here and I intuitively, Thank God, there have been no mistakes yet I do not know how the pros look
Yes, even ol. oil 2 tbsp. spoons in the process of kneading already poured. Sorr, at 5.50 I have to get up on duty

[Nika]

Girls I'm so far from leavening now

but I remember exactly that leaven was that headache. Sourdough is something that you need to constantly think about, it needs to be constantly fed, protected, cherished, and it always has its own character.
And brewing has nothing to do with sourdough, unless you grow a leavened sourdough.

Brewing ... is just the gelatinization of the starch in the flour, followed by the transformation of this starch into sugars, which yeast and bacteria love to eat. It is you who are just preparing the yummy for further eating it with a thrill of creatures that will lift the bread and saturate it with taste.

And sourdough is something that fermented for a long, long time, like a dough, in which all sorts of tasty bacteria with their acids have accumulated and a bunch of small different yeasts - and without them your sourdough will not raise bread.
Therefore, when you grow sourdough on the basis of brewing, it only means that you choose a tastier place for leavening bacteria and yeast.
In a brew or simply on the basis of flour, it is necessary to plant bacteria and yeast, create conditions for their reproduction and a comfortable life, and only after a long time will the leaven be obtained.

Therefore, Nika, you don’t write the exact recipe, but I’m completely confused: did you make the leaven or just the tea leaves? if you're going to stick the tea leaves in like leaven, then you won't have any lift in the bread at all.
You need both tea leaves and sourdough - these are completely different things.

Added Monday 20 Mar 2017 00:33

Yulia,

but I don't even know how to answer your questions. There are too many aspects to touch upon.
You are missing the knowledge base.
It's primitive.
Yeast and nobody else are responsible for the rise of yeast bread. This yeast can be selective, that is, grown in the best conditions and selected by the strongest leaders. These are called "industrial" in everyday life.
They have to pick up the bread at a fixed time. That is, if the manufacturer guarantees that in two hours 8 g of yeast will raise 400 g of flour at 30 degrees, then this must strictly happen.

And then there is homegrown yeast. These are your favorite starters. When there are very different communities of different yeasts in it. Who are not the strongest and coolest, and even like to fight. As a result, each leaven has its own individual lifting force, which changes once in a while.
Moreover, any starter culture is a priori weaker than industrial yeast.
The second - the most important value of the starter culture is that all sorts of tasty acids and beneficial bacteria accumulate there. That is, sourdough is also a bread flavor enhancer.
Therefore, if you put your home-grown sourdough in the bread, and it did not rise, then this means that you have grown a leaven of weak lift, or this leaven of yours needs more time to rise the dough than you gave.
That is why it is often recommended to use the sourdough only as a flavoring additive, and regulate the rise with the addition of industrial yeast.
So that things happened strictly according to the clock, and not like you put bread on home-grown sourdough into the French regime, which obviously did not have enough time for the regime to raise bread. Here you have a brick and came out.
You had to manually wait until your sourdough raised the bread normally before baking.
Of course, nothing would have happened to the bucket, the bucket from the dough does not deteriorate
The version with kneading dumplings and then raising in service mode is more suitable for sourdough bread.

BUT: if it's a primitive look.
The taste of bread depends directly on the conditions under which it is fermented. Different bacteria live at different temperatures.
Therefore bread, fermented in the cold, will not be the same as fermented in the service mode. They will have a fundamentally different taste and even consistency, since yeast will work differently.
To what extent the bacteria in your sourdough are adapted for fermentation in the heat, I do not know.

That is, I would recommend strictly adhering to the recommendations of those who have already tried and succeeded. Their way of growing leaven.
Otherwise, experiment, I wish you success

When asked whether or not to put tea leaves? saccharifice or not? I don't even know what to say. Hunting to sneer that entire research institutes were fighting this issue, and you decided to solve this issue so simply.
Different brews - different tastes in bread. Well, the tea leaves are definitely more juicy.
They saccharify the tea leaves in order to, I repeat, prepare a tasty treat for yeast with bacteria, and not palm off the raw product. At the same time, as you sacharize, you will slip such a cake on them. Whether sweet or bitter

The brewing is so serious that the maintenance temperatures, saccharification times, and so on are scheduled. If you want to get a certain taste and a certain bread - nowhere without brewing. But if only a home experiment from a bulldozer, then maybe a crap will turn out.
Because experimentation is certainly permissible. But .. this is the invention of the wheel in most cases.
There are already proven and proven best recipes and technologies that give the best results.