Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

Now it dawned on me that the new Avik is worth it ... otherwise I look all day and I don't understand what is wrong with such a cool spring cat

Sissyayus ask Why tint bread with tea leaves? Although ... I’ll dip the doctor’s sausage into the tea leaves or coffee tomorrow. I think it will go for semi-smoked or cervelat

some people are looking for harmless coloring products. Well, the stereotype will be deceived or put to sleep the same on.
And if you like brown sausage, then health

Added Saturday 04 Mar 2017 10:11 PM

The unevenness of the roof does not affect the speed ...

It turns out that Admin is right or Lena ...?

Added Saturday 04 Mar 2017 10:12 PM

such a cool spring cat

aha maartovsky

aha maartovsky

* such a cool spring cat

Yeah, he ran away from my window ... Red-haired mischief ...

Yeah, he ran away from my window ... Red-haired mischief ...

[Nicky]

Yeah, he ran away from my window ... Red-haired mischief ...

Marin, walk up, wants to eat, will return

Added Saturday 04 Mar 2017 10:20 PM

Then you have to Nicky ask what tea she used to add bread to.

I didn’t find the wort, next time I’ll do it on kvass

🔗 🔗 🔗

Added Saturday 04 Mar 2017 10:21 PM

walk up, want to eat will return

Added Saturday 04 Mar 2017 10:21 PM

his bread with sausage is on guard, since he went on a rampage, I have a balcony open there with a meat pie and baked fish, fly to the 7th floor

I feed my guard with sausage

I have a security guard, serious and very strict ... you can't really stretch a pen ...
instantly a scratch will make

I have a security guard, serious and very strict ... you can't really stretch a pen ...
instantly a scratch will make

beauty. It's not safe for me either ... the dog is small, chihuahua, brash and loves cats ... in the literal sense

chihuahua, brash and loves cats ...

so this is where cat cats come from

so this is where cat cats come from

my eldest son said the same thing, falling from laughter, but it was not funny for me ... I had to clean the cat from the house ...

Added Saturday 04 Mar 2017 10:46 PM

And the bread is fragrant, it turned out, with a crispy crust, delicious
Vital, I also brewed caryander with tea there, and honey, and milk, and sl. oil 20-30 gr. added ...., I threw food for skepticism into you
But more than 1 piece. do not eat, very good satisfying.

I didn’t find the wort, next time I’ll do it on kvass

NikaVS, I once baked Darnytskyi and I had neither fermented malt nor kvass wort, so I replaced most of the liquid with beer. The bread is excellent. I also always put ground cumin. In general, additives are such a thing - you can add anything. My husband is very fond of wheat-rye in tomato juice with cucumber pickle, so I still put black ground pepper and purple fried onions in it. But this, of course, is not for everybody.

NikaVs, I once baked Darnitskiy and I had neither fermented malt nor kvass wort, so I replaced most of the liquid with beer. The bread is excellent. I also always put ground cumin. In general, additives are such a thing - you can add anything. My husband is very fond of wheat-rye on tomato juice with cucumber pickle, so I still put black ground pepper and purple fried onions in it. But this, of course, is not for everybody.

Marisha, thank you, I'll try your ideas and I want to make French for my boys, with fried onions and garlic (I'll take it away, just leave the aroma oil), otherwise there is so much controversy about this bread
Marisha, thank you, for the tips and support, I'm worried, because I'm a newbie in the work on HP, everything, I get something, crush, add ... I'm worried, but she is smart, everything will turn out with dignity when the thread is better.

[any]

I want to make French for my boys, with fried onions

NikaVs, fried onions in any bread is a cool thing - it gives an incomparable taste and aroma when baked, too. Even when you bake the simplest bread, adding fried onions will make the bread tastier. I fry the onions in a slow cooker (because there is less oil in the recipe already) and not until brown (in general, the frying is quite "intelligent"). Just fry the onion in advance and let it cool, do not put it hot. If you bake in the Basic mode, then select the Basic with raisins and put the onion in the dispenser (if there is no dispenser, the HP will give a signal when to put it in). But the French regime doesn't work that way. Here, either immediately lay (in principle, it is also possible), or at the end of the batch. Good luck!

[any]

NikaVs, fried onions in any bread is a cool thing - it gives an incomparable taste and aroma when baked, too. Good luck!

Thank you

I have a new question for experienced users!
Why is the bread so small? although the products were laid out at an average size.
white bread and a small amount of corn flour, baked in French
According to my recipe, I did not take it here and baked it in the previous x-ovens. It turned out to be so quite not small, with in Panas it was completely unimportant.
I thought ... maybe on Prog French you can't add other types of white flour? what do you think?

I have a new question for experienced users!
Why is the bread so small? although the products were laid out at an average size.
white bread and a small amount of corn flour, baked in French
According to my recipe, I did not take it here and baked it in the previous x-ovens. It turned out to be so quite not small, with in Panas it was completely unimportant.
I thought ... maybe on Prog French you can't add other types of white flour? what do you think?

corn flour is completely gluten-free, that is, it is akin to rye in terms of severity. But that's just more moisture-absorbing.

So ... yeah, you're right, the gluten carcass swelled less or, even worse, broke during fermentation.

Why? because the French regime in Panasica is very long, go look for this in other stoves.

It is difficult to pinpoint the exact reason because you did not indicate the taste and degree of crumbling.

Look ... if you shifted the yeast, it could have bloated too much in the process for a very long fermentation time and tear your gluten. Then the bread must have been tired. Tiny.

If not reported, but this is unlikely, then the low rise did not affect the taste, just a little loosening.

There might be a stupid lack of gluten. There is little of it. She pouted as she could. Then the taste should be good. And it looks like ordinary bread.

I could stupidly not add water. The cornmeal ate it in the process of a long fermentation and the bread turned out to be denser than usual.
Choose what you like best

To get such a fluffy bread, you need to take a stronger wheat flour, do not fly in quantity with yeast and knead the bun softer.
Better yet ... knead on dumplings. And start the cycle. After half an hour, climb up and see at the time of kneading how much it has swollen, can add some water. Corn flour is that.

corn flour is completely gluten-free, that is, it is akin to rye in terms of severity. But that's just more moisture-absorbing.

Lena, when you add corn, how much more water to take? And can protein "draw out" gluten? Emoticons are not inserted ..

Thank you very much for the explanation!
I use only strong wheat flour, special for bread. Before that, not a single bread maker had such a long service-jacket, I think that is the point. The crumbling is average, the taste is quite normal.
Prog-dumplings models for Europe were not supplied. Unfortunately.I can try to bake exactly such bread on the basic program.
In general, Panas is certainly a gorgeous stove, but with its own calls, which are not available in more budgetary brethren.

I didn't make bread with her, only eclairs.

Therefore, how much more .. you yourself have to determine in practice. Well I already suggested, kneaded, set the main program, and let the bun swell as it stands. If it became too dense before kneading - from a spray bottle, or with pens, some water was added and recorded on a piece of paper.
And we put the yeast in, and then we watch with our nose so that it does not ferment. But .. it is only necessary to properly study and write down once, and the second bread can already be made immediately.
Protein strongly strengthens gluten. Well, as far as his strength is enough for a particular flour, only in practice you can find out in the laboratory, they would do an accurate analysis and say. And here ... you make the first test bread under supervision and only then it will become clear.

Added Sunday 05 Mar 2017 07:33 PM

strong, special for bread.

if the flour was strong, the yeast is most likely to break the gluten. Probably shifted them.
Test the water and reduce the yeast. And stick your nose in HP in the process.

You can knead on pizza. The essence is to initially mix water with flour without any kneading. At least with a fork)))
The basic program has a smaller fermentation cycle. It means that less tasty substances will accumulate and they will be different, because fermentation at different temperatures.
That is, the bread will be different !!!!.
But on the main one you can add more yeast. And the main one is closest to the regimes in other HP, you're right.
And by temperature and time.

It still needs to be checked, in which mode you like to taste more)))
You just have to finish off the French regime.
Once with a nose in HP and a handle)))

Added Sunday 05 March 2017 07:39 PM

You know, there is still an option that the yeast is old and has not worked at full strength for a long time.

There are no high temperatures in French mode. If on the main there is a strong heating and any yeast will come to life, then on French there are special requirements for yeast, as well as their quantity.

Yeast needs long-acting, time.
Yeast is needed not killed by life or cold water))))

But this is not your first time in first grade. Therefore, this option seems unlikely to me.

Added Sunday 05 Mar 2017 08:10 PM

When I made eclairs with corn flour, I took 2.5 times more water for brewing than usual and would not say that it was wet)))
But then hot brew)))
I was specifically looking for such a recipe then, so that the additive was gluten-free.
From here I know for sure that rice, corn, buckwheat ... they are all heavy and gluten-free for bread. And more water-absorbing.

and tinted with welding,

Nika, I also want to tint the bread, like yours. Dap tea leaves and when?

Notifications again from this topic do not come, emoticons are not active, I can not insert a GIF - the button is also inactive. ... ... ...!

...! And the spoiler doesn't work!

Nika, I also want to tint the bread, like yours. Dap tea leaves and when?
Notifications again from this topic do not come, the emoticons are not active, I can not insert a GIF - the button is also inactive. ... ... ...!
...! And the spoiler doesn't work!

Yes again failures ...
Vit, I took a regular bag, 100 gr. water, for more than 2 minutes this whisk cannot be brewed, then it cooled down a little and diluted with water and milk to the required volume, so as not to be hot from 25 -36 degrees. and only at the end pour it onto the flour. Sorry watching kino

🔗

Prog-dumplings models for Europe were not supplied. Unfortunately.

Mirabel, Vika, quickly knead the dough, in HP 2500 for Europe, you can on the second program, without preliminary leveling and kneading starts immediately. Kneading in this mode is immediately heated, so I turn on the program and do not close the lid so that the unleavened dough does not overheat, and I knead the yeast dough with the lid closed.

PS: On the "Rizza" mode, the batch is also heated

Vika, quickly knead the dough, in HP 2500 for Europe, you can on the second program, it without preliminary leveling and kneading starts immediately. Kneading in this mode is immediately heated, so I turn on the program and do not close the lid so that the unleavened dough does not overheat, and I knead the yeast dough with the lid closed.

Natasha, you're in vain. If you then leave it for swelling, then the best dough temperatures are not higher than 24, if only because the main emphasis is not on the action of yeast, which adores temperatures under 30 degrees, on the contrary, they need to be slowed down, but on a simple preliminary swelling, this is only rest before the main kneading ... Ideally, it is generally good to carry it out in the refrigerator, because the processes of dough degradation work in the heat, and we just need to give it a rest and swell.
Therefore, for the first batch, avoid heating in every possible way. Let yeast and bacteria run on the main heat cycle in the main batch.

Rather, your approach: to knead in the heat is very correct and even better, but only if you then immediately slow down the processes by placing the bucket in the refrigerator.
And if it continues to stand in the oven, the heating is bad. At all

NaTalia, Lena, thank you very much for your patience and desire to clarify, help

Added Sunday 05 Mar 2017 10:20 pm

The optimum breeding temperature for baker's yeast is around 25 °, and the optimum temperature for alcoholic fermentation is around 35 °. According to the data of experiments carried out in the laboratory of the department of baking technology MTIPP Gerasimova "On the effect of different temperatures on gas formation in the dough, in the dough and in the dough without dough", tables were compiled

Infa may be useful to you.

And yet ... unleavened dough has the most plastic properties at temperatures no higher than 12 degrees.

Above, gluten begins to noticeably change its properties. And this lady, like yeast, loves temperatures under 30 degrees, begins to form like an avalanche.
Therefore, if you do not want its development, then the flour is cold, the water is icy and there is not even the slightest heating. Especially uneven. For example walls and bottom
And if you want strong rubberiness, then the kneading is such that the dough is under 30 degrees of heat. And we leave at this temperature. Much to the joy of gluten.
But not for long, because this temperature is also adored for dough degradation processes.

Therefore, another option for gluten swelling is often chosen. The batch is warm, but then a long standing in the refrigerator. So that gluten is slowly formed in the absence of processes destroying the dough, or rather sharply slowed down. They lose in speed, but for sure.

The higher the temperature of the dough or dough, the more favorable the temperature conditions for the vital activity of the lactic acid bacteria of the dough. Therefore, an increase in the temperature of the dough usually causes an increased accumulation of acidity in it.
Table 1 shows the acidity values ​​of the dough and dough prepared at different temperatures (Gerasimova's experiments).
Influence of dough temperature on its physical properties. As a result of an increase in temperature, the elasticity of gluten decreases and its extensibility and spreadability increase. The quality of low gluten deteriorates especially sharply with increasing temperature.
... An increase in the temperature of the dough entails a deterioration in its physical properties .... I do not want to scan the entire report and tables, find it on the Internet ... I'll find it myself I'll write

Added Sunday 05 Mar 2017 10:30 pm

so as not to scold ... look for Everything about the technology of bakery products ... or the temperature of the dough ...

watch the movie "Attraction"

What program?

What program?

spouse made him look at the projector ... well not 3d
The film is naive in places, as if for teenagers ... but the idea of ​​the film, the actors' play are at their best !!! I cried at the end, although I came off here
We are evil people, in this film ...

Nika, everything is complicated there.
Otherwise, all testing would be at temperatures below 30 degrees.And it is difficult in the sense that nothing happens apart from other parallel processes that can negate all this acid formation.
Therefore, they introduced doughs, leavens and so on. Where in a concentrated form one or another bacterial environment and taste are obtained at the expense of consistency. Doughs, leavens are not dough. And the fact of their diversity lies in the fact that they are conducted at different temperatures, just adjusting to the tastes of bacteria.

Our preliminary standing has completely different goals.
When kneading to stand the yeast dough, it is not necessary for the yeast and degradation processes to work and no bacteria. Therefore, aging is ideal only in the refrigerator. Slightly worse, short-lived at a low room temperature. The lower the better. To slow down everything except swelling. Which goes not at the highest speed, as at 30, for example, but it is enough.

Everything went buy, for some reason the temperature rose, higher than that of the dough and dough,, hmm ... I did not get sick for a month ... I thought I got out
Oh, Lena, I'm not complicating this, but the laboratory of the Department of Bakery Technology of MTIPP is experimenting

Good evening, today I bought sesame flour, they promise good gluten, who tried to bake a thread with it?

Added Monday, 06 Mar 2017 8:52 PM

You will produce valuable flaxseed ... just like on Indonesian plantations ... like Luwak Coffee ...

Kopi-luvak is delicious ... but I just smelled it, brewed it for my spouse, I didn't, but our friend begged for the whole jar, dragged away from him like a boa constrictor ...

[NikaVs]

NikaVs, I added. It was not felt in the bread. You can add a little of it, if I'm not mistaken. I put 1 tablespoon on 400 grams of flour. Baked milk.

[NikaVs]

NikaVs, I added. It was not felt in the bread. You can add a little of it, if I'm not mistaken. I put 1 tablespoon on 400 grams of flour. Baked milk.

Svetlana, just Nika, I'm on which mode is the best oven for sausage and cheese?

Nick, it's easier to press nickname from the phone.
With sausage on mostly raisins, I think.
I only baked bread with olives for dietetic with filling. with raisins.

I brewed my spouse, I didn't,

Why so?

Nick, it's easier to press nickname from the phone.
With sausage on mostly raisins, I think.
I only baked bread with olives for dietetic with filling. with raisins.

Svetlana, did you like the olives?

Nika, no. I was disappointed. IMHO.

Why so?

well, somehow I didn’t risk it .., I didn’t really like coffee then, I cooked it for guests, then in a Turk, then in a "dropsy", now ... I pressed the button, it will grind and brew, your business is just to take a mug ... and inhale the scent ...

Yesterday I baked bread with choux pastry. Don't insert the link from your phone. I'll write the title a little later.

Nika, no. I was disappointed. IMHO.

we sold it, earlier in the shopping center, now they don't do it ..., only with greens, apparently there is more of it

Added Monday, 06 Mar 2017 9:26 PM

Yesterday I baked bread with choux pastry. Don't insert the link from your phone. I'll write the title a little later.

Are you happy with the result?

it is now ... I pressed the button, it will grind and brew

This is no longer coffee ... the old old-fashioned way must be brewed ... although I myself do not brew, I brew

Nika, very much. I have already posted a link in this thread, but you have not seen it. I also wanted to hear Lena's opinion about this method.

This is no longer coffee ... the old old-fashioned way must be brewed ... although I myself do not brew, I brew

No, it depends on which coffee machine ... and as in a joke))) Jews do not regret the infusions ...))) And in a water Turk (under pressure) I like coffee more than cezve

Added Monday, 06 Mar 2017 10:55 PM

Nika, very much. I have already posted a link in this thread, but you have not seen it. I also wanted to hear Lena's opinion about this method.

Svetlana, all copier, did I really overlook yours, then throw a link pliz or recipe

.....
PS: On the "Rizza" mode, the batch is also heated

Natashik,

Well, you understand how perfect it should be. But how it turns out. If there are no dumplings, then on a European pizza is a lesser evil than the main fast one. The main fast is the hottest and most intense.
Although if you knead very cold dough and heating is not particularly scary

There is no program on the typewriter that is designed for dances with tambourines with preliminary standing.
If done correctly, then in general you should gently knead the dough at room temperature and the bucket in the refrigerator with a fork-spoon. Run the program and put the bucket directly under the batch.
But .. I want to be more comfortable and with less movements. Therefore, it is convenient to use dumplings in Russian, they are completely unheated, and in Europeans - pizza, but, of course, this is far from ideal.
By the way, I only have pizza too

Hitachi would not even have to be driven. There is such a program in itself. Two batches with a rest between them under optimal conditions.
Therefore, it is easier to check the amount of water there, as well as to curb the problem flour.
And here you have to choose from far from ideal options.

Actually, these are all corrals, if you do it right in theory. Striving for the ideal, one might say.
But in practice, everyone has slightly different modes, different flour, and if in practice it turns out well, then all these theories don't really matter.

If done correctly, then in general you should gently knead the dough at room temperature and the bucket in the refrigerator with a fork-spoon. Run the program and put the bucket directly under the batch.

And I have to try. Today the yeast is overripe again

Added on Tuesday 07 Mar 2017 04:07 AM

if in practice it turns out well, then fig all these theories.

And, yeah

[below]

a little more about the theory of two mixes

I repeat, all these dances are needed only if the flour is tender or requires additional time to swell.
In the case of fast and strong flour, this is unnecessary.
Panasik is designed for strong flour. When we put any flour into it, according to its properties below the machine planned by engineers, only then does the problem of double mixing arise. And according to theory

1. The first batch should not be intensive. Because there is no gluten yet, or there is little of it and it is very tender. You can't break.

2. The first batch should be at such a temperature that the cold does not kill the yeast. That is, the resulting dough should be at least room temperature. Yeast should wake up and work, but ... then you need it fast brake:
and

3.Therefore, rest is done in a cool place. The colder the better. In order to slow down the awakened yeast, otherwise, firstly, they will start wasting energy in vain, and secondly, they will start different grain processes ahead of time.
The main intensive kneading is ahead of us, only after a rest. And we don't need to intensively knead fermented dough full of gases.
And also slow down the degradation of the dough, which loves warmth.

4. And on the second batch, all the functions of kneading the gluten swollen after a rest with a rapid heating of the dough fall, in order to make the yeast work intensively as soon as possible.
But when I write about rapid heating. That is, I mean relative heating depending on the quality of the flour.

Weak flour such as whole grain and in the second batch is not heated much and does not knead. Weak flour cannot withstand intensive kneading and high temperatures at all.
Therefore, the mode for such flour must be chosen appropriately gentle and delicate.

and if the flour is ordinary, just long swelling, then it can then be heated and kneaded both in the tail and in the mane in the main mode.

But .. by the way,

I met with eminent chefs another waywhen they are at all not yeast was added at the first batch before resting.
They kneaded the dough first without yeast, gave him a rest, and only then yeast was added to the main batch.

This option is less critical to temperatures. One should not be afraid for yeast that it will work ahead of time.
The dough can be left to rest in the room if it is not hot.
Because nobody canceled the danger of dough degradation at high temperatures.

The only requirement remains: do not stick yeast into very chilled dough. But since the rest is done in a typewriter room, this is also easily realized.

As they say, choose the options themselves how best to adapt to the theory in your conditions.

Added on Tuesday 07 Mar 2017 05:04

about yeast

manipulations with chilling and cold kneading should tolerate live yeast well.
These operate over a very wide temperature range.

However, you should know that in theory, if you knead the dough hot, the yeast starts to revive and work harder. And even if you cool the dough later, such yeast will still work harder than, for example
introduced initially into a chilled dough, and then already heated.

These are the animals according to the theory. The initial conditions are relatively more important than the subsequent ones.

Dry yeast, according to theory, is more critical to the cold. Therefore, this must be taken into account. Do not pour cold water, do not add to cold dough. In theory, you will kill immediately.

From this opus follows. That the weaker your flour is, the better it is to knead in a cool state, which means you will definitely not go wrong with live yeast. But .. again, this is a solid theory.

Perhaps you have such dry yeast that it can handle anything.