Raisin sourdough, problems and tips

[Maybe you should put it to the battery?]

.................
It is interesting that the jar was not far from the stove (I forgot about it when I was cooking), on its side the bubbles are larger. Maybe you should put it to the battery? It's cool in the kitchen, I open the window at night. But I'm afraid that the battery will oxyderate ...

It is possible that if a little warmer is better .... but go and follow. For the same reason, we do not put it near the battery, for some reason it feels like it will definitely turn sour. Let's see what tomorrow will be, and so it is in a jar, "covered" with a lid, in a kitchen shelf with a door. During the day it was 22 degrees, it was colder at night, of course ... In general, it can be assumed that the process is slightly slowed down in order to prevent this case Pto oxidize.

........ The smell changes all the time, about 7 hours before use (then it had not yet risen to the end), it was more sour.

Thanks for the observation, take note.

[ml]

This is what we get (less than two days).
About an hour ago.
On the left, there are many small bubbles (foam). The smell is harsh, of course, but you can't say that it knocks. It tastes sour, but again does not warp .... in short, it does not look like spoiled food.

It has risen twice, while the bank expands to the top. Bank "PP" volume 1 liter.


After stirring. When I stirred, I thought that the spoon would dissolve. (mixed with a spoon so that the jar would not tear with a fork).


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Fed up.
Transferred to a larger volume, just in case (2 liters).
Added:
Sourdough (mixed) - 100 ml
Water - 100 ml
Flour - 100 ml!
Everything was mixed according to the recommendations at the beginning of the topic, the mixture turned out to be viscous in terms of density.

That's just the volume of 300 ml did not work, well, fig with him, the bubbles are still out of air ...
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It took about two hours after feeding. It can be seen from everything that the process is underway. Rare bubbles are present, as well as a slight rise of about 2-3 mm, the smell is delicious.

Question.
Now I'm looking, the volume has already doubled
And what to do with all this? The camera's battery is dead, the photo will be later.
For now, I think that it is necessary to mix and wait more. What are the opinions?
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After mixing, the process slowed down, but nevertheless ...

as for me it is so necessary to feed - otherwise it will peroxide
I feed my leaven "on demand" - this is when the leaven has doubled or more, but no longer grows, but on the contrary begins to bend in the center
I had a grape, and now I'm French, I had the idea to experiment with raisins, but something did not work out
However, in fact, this is the same wheat leaven, which means it must be fed when it has increased 2-2.5 times.

[rinishek]

as for me it is so necessary to feed - otherwise it will peroxide
I feed my leaven "on demand" - this is when the leaven has doubled or more, but no longer grows, ...........

rinishek... Aha! Thank you. After mixing, it has already risen 1.5 times ... a little later we will feed and, most likely, we will remove some, we'll see.
On the leftover sourdough, after the first feeding, the bread was already kneaded fortohere ...

[to]

On the leftover sourdough, after the first feeding, the bread was already kneaded fortohere ...

that's our way! I just wanted to tell you that it's enough to watch - and it is so clear that the leaven has "gotten into trouble" - it's time to let her sweetheart go into business, otherwise she is already asking for battle with her whole appearance!

If you knead thicker, then you will need to feed less often.

[to]

If you knead thicker, then you will need to feed less often.

Thank you. Yes Yes! Now, let's feed. It's a matter of the past, our mother is busy now, so my son and I are mastering the stove ... knead, netoeat, feed, etc.
That's what's with the leaven now. It can be seen along the edge of the dried sourdough from the previous mixing, and so again in 2x it rose.

And here is the bread. Kneaded based on

The bread even looks delicious. When I bake in HP, I do not coat it. And it turns out so beautifully.

The bread even looks delicious. When I bake in HP, I do not coat it. And it turns out so beautifully.

Thank you.
Aha! Vk-u-s-nenko There is a sour smell, but I can no longer catch it. The wife says there is very little, almost not noticeable. It also tastes sour, but the same is barely perceptible. "Spin-gnaw" hamster crust, says -. Bread as a whole differs in taste and type of crumb (not so fluffy, more small pores) from those that were previously baked with dry yeast and raw. Let's recalculate the shoals and it will do quite well instead of a purchased loaf. I managed to take a picture inside, then I'll show it, otherwise I won't have time. Thank you all, from our whole family, for the advice.
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Inside.
Cooked evenly. There are no dark streaks and a poisonous sheen in reality, there is a flash at close range, so some kind of yoke of light turned out to be incomprehensible. There are large voids, as you can see, but there are many fewer of them than in ordinary HP loaves. Generally denser structure.

[pssergey]

pssergey,
With "first bread" you! I mean with the first starter ...
Did you do this during my absence? No, I urgently need to change my job, otherwise I will miss everything!

According to the calculation, the bobble came out, where, until they understood ...

Look for leaven in moisture. If you replace 100 g of flour and 100 g of water in the recipe for 200 g of a ferment of 100% moisture, you should not ask for more than a spoonful of flour when kneading the dough.

[pssergey]

pssergey,
With "first bread" you! I mean with the first starter ... .......

Thank you. Beginners are lucky.

Did you do this during my absence? No, I urgently need to change my job, otherwise I will miss everything! .......

And we ourselves did not expect that everything would turn out so quickly.

Look for leaven in moisture. If you replace 100 g of flour and 100 g of water in the recipe for 200 g of a ferment of 100% moisture, you should not ask for more than a spoonful of flour when kneading the dough.

Thank you, let's take it into account. It feels like there is more liquid in my leaven than flour. There are no weights yet in terms of the amount of butter (at least twice), we measured it by eye and for some reason it jammed that the pack was 100 grams, but it’s 200. so they cut it off ... (the bar was seasoned, how did it rise ...) but maybe for the better, for yeast, the same error was more likely initially. + and on the water it is possible ... but, in general, we will count the bun, we liked the bar.
Just don't tell anyone

Good health!
This is the kind of bread made with raisin sourdough, without yeast. Oven baked.

And this one is baked in a bread maker.

I thank the author of the topic and everyone who shared their experience on raisin sourdough.
Sourdough bread is good, tasty and healthy!

[davidov]

Sourdough bread is good, tasty and healthy!

davidov, bravo!
Of course, it is both tasty and healthy, and in your case it is also very beautiful!
I wish you success in the further development of sourdough bread!

[davidov]

davidov Excellent bread, congratulations !!! I liked the first one more, for some reason I have a weakness for "brick" forms

Well, here I baked bread without yeast.


The main recipe from the instructions for HP, flour and water. I liked the taste, a slight sourness is present.
The leaven increases approximately 3 times in 7 hours. Temperature 20 degrees. I baked in 20 hours, it fell a little.
Now I want to bake rye bread. Is it possible to make rye sourdough using the same technology? If you feed this leaven with rye flour, will it raise rye bread?

Viki
I wish you success in the further development of sourdough bread!

Viki, thank you for your wish
I bake bread for the third week. Immediately set up to bake bread. as a living process. The dough is like living. You touch it with your hands - it becomes clear. Sourdough bread surprised me. Everything is so simple and done by itself. And digestion is back to normal

Hello everyone!
Congratulations on your successful mixes.
Today we have kneaded with wheat-rye "From the noodles" the simplest recipe for the CP of white bread tried to adapt. But it is necessary to reconsider, because as a result, rye flour turned out to be not enough about 25% of the total (if you believe my calculations )., salt, sunflower oil. Sourdough - on rye flour! There is no yeast.
Only three mixes turned out, this time much less flour was added.
The ascent time is 2 hours. then the "Baking" mode 1 h + 10 min.
The loaf was cracked in places, that is, he probably wanted to stand still. But here such a thing, he stood in the switched off HP, it was necessary to check his reaction exactly in 2 hours. Next time we will put on the program, and when on the program the stove turns on heating in the "growth" mode, so it will have to influence and accelerate the rise ...
.......
Rose relatively evenly, baked. The pores are not large, there are no large voids. Not fluffy. There is sourness. For color, you will probably need to add more kvass wort (liquid).

pssergey, how was the rye sourdough made?

pssergey, how was the rye sourdough made?

Somewhere in this thread there is ... not literally sounds like this:
If you are going to bake rye bread, then feed it with rye flour. That's all the wisdom.
Actually, I was at work, my wife was feeding me rye flour, according to this recommendation.
I took a couple of tablespoons of wheat sourdough, added 100 ml of water (mixed well) and about 100 gr. rye flour (by volume measure!) Mixed again. Wheat the same while left the leaven ...

Dear bakers, tell me, please! I re-read everything, there is a mess in my head. What about the summer with leaven? In the refrigerator, healthy yeast will die, in the room in the summer up to 30 degrees, so I won't feed her ...

[ml]

Please tell me to feed 100ml of water + 100 ml flour or 100ml water + 100gr flour?

I read somewhere that if it is 10-15 degrees in the refrigerator, they will not die.

[ml]

Please tell me to feed 100ml of water + 100 ml flour or 100ml water + 100gr flour?

Only 100 gr.
Just 100 grams of water = 100 ml of water. But flour should be measured in grams.

Thank you. So at first I did it wrong, but then I corrected myself. Thank you for being there!

Viki, help !!!
Yesterday at 16.00 I put my starter culture. Did everything as you write: 0.5 st. raisins, 1 glass of water, 1.5 hours. l. sugar, 200g flour. In the evening I went to bed calmly. 16 hours passed. And in the morning, my leaven DOUBLE! What to do??? Yours, only two days later, rose only by a third. And what does mine do?

My leaven DOUBLE! What to do??? Yours, only two days later, rose only by a third. And what does mine do?

What to do? First, rejoice! You will have a great girl and very efficient.
Second, feed and bake bread!
Try to feed her in such a way that she gives no less flour than is in the sourdough itself. More - please, less - no way!
For example: You want to feed 100 gr. sourdough, in it 50 gr. flour and 50 gr. water - this means that she can not be given less than 50 grams. flour and water, otherwise she will starve and feel bad.
To feed less often, you can feed her in larger proportions. Gram 20 starter cultures + 100 gr. water and 100 gr. flour and longer you can not feed, although I did not succeed longer than 8 hours in the summer.

Good day!

I ask for help. Today I started making a 1-page raisin sourdough recipe. But I was at a loss, judging by the photographs, the consistency of the leaven should turn out to be "thick sour cream". But for 200 ml of water and 200 g of flour, I get a pretty steep dough. Please tell me my mistake. I used peeled rye flour.

Thanks in advance!

But for 200 ml of water and 200 g of flour, I get a pretty steep dough. Please tell me my mistake. I used peeled rye flour.

You yourself answered your own question. If wheat flour, then you get the dough like sour cream, if rye flour - a cool lump.
If you want to leave it as it is, then in a day, and it will become thinner, feed it so as to double the amount. And in a day you will see the first couple of bubbles. It will smell bad for another two days - that's for sure.
It's easier to make a raisin sourdough on wheat flour, feed it for a couple of days to get stronger and start feeding it with rye flour.

!

Good evening everyone

I decided not to throw away the rye-raisin sourdough. Today (06/22/2011) is already the last 4th day of feeding, if you count from 18-00 Sunday. The sourdough rises quite briskly and has an alcohol-yeast odor with a pronounced acidity. But the problem is that somewhere against this background of smells, the smell that was at the very beginning appears.
I really can't understand what it smells like, either rot or most likely potato disease. I just had rye bread 3 weeks ago deteriorated and had a similar smell.
Although according to the descriptions, there should be no smell after 3 days. tell me how to proceed.
Once a day I feed 200g of flour and 200ml of water.

[so yak write]

Soon you will be mother of the whole leaven!
Don't you want to rebuild it all over again, ale so yak write on the first side?

So I grew this wonderful sourdough, not the first time, it did not go to the top-grade, only 1 grade, but now how fast it grows, what a lush white crumb gives, in general, beauty! Now I compare everything with rye, eternal.
I’m thinking now, is it possible to make buns on this leaven, classic with sugar, layers, knead in milk, only leaven instead of yeast. Do you think it will work or not? After all, probably only bread leaven is suitable, but not for baking.

Stasya, here are some recipes

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13266.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=38112.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=56965.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=121295.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=71466.0

the sourdough copes well with baking
However, I always use half the norm of yeast in pastry dough (if I liked a recipe of some kind, then I just replace part of the flour and liquid in the recipe in the appropriate ratios for flour: water in sourdough, since I have 100% sourdough)
So you can safely take sourdough into your favorite baking recipe - it will turn out very tasty

What does "100% sourdough" mean?

This means that water and flour are equal in it. For example 100g of water and 100g of flour

Help, good people. I decided to grow the raisin sourdough again (I once had it). Already I fed her probably ten times, I feed her every day. And she doesn't want to grow, she just lets bubbles. The maximum can grow by 0.5-1 cm and that's it. Stands in the kitchen on a bedside table, the air temperature is about 24 degrees. the previous starter culture at this temperature increased threefold in 20 hours, and this one in any. What to do with it? Advise something.

What to do with it? Advise something.

Make it thicker. Once it lets bubbles, it means alive.
Feed in what proportion?

Yes, I have already done both thick, and very thick, and not at all thick. Nothing helps. I feed it like this: I leave two tablespoons of sourdough, give 100 ml of water and flour. I give flour 100-150g. - every time in different ways. That is, her density was already different, but she did not want to grow.

I feed it like this: I leave two tablespoons of sourdough, give 100 ml of water and flour. I give flour 100-150g. - every time in different ways. That is, her density was already different, but she did not want to grow.

You have it weak. Let her grow stronger. Three feedings in a row, one by one in proportion to how much leaven, so much flour and the same amount of water. For example: a leaven of 50 g, which means 50 g of water and 50 g of flour. Should gain strength.

Thanks, I'll try. If nothing works, then I'll start a new one.

Hello Viki! I would like to thank you again for your advice. I did everything as you said and after the 5th such feeding, my sourdough began to increase by half, and after the seventh it was already doubled! Now she stands on my balcony (there is about 15 degrees) and grows beautifully, only slowly, and that's what I need. And in the room it grows very quickly - in 5 hours it doubles. Thank you HUGE again.

[Natalya 2204]

Natalya 2204, fine! May she grow healthy and beautiful for you. Good luck and a lot of delicious bread!

I baked rye bread in the oven for 1.3 hours, in the mold it turned out to be a "hot plate for lining the Shuttle" - a smooth, burnt, hard crust of dark chocolate color, and inside the semi-liquid clay was not baked ...
Rye flour, 10% wheat, sour cream density, 3-day raisin sourdough.
This is all because of the dough (and dough) that did not rise.If it normally rises by 2 times, will there not be such a burn-dough contrast?

This is all because of the dough (and dough) that did not rise. If it normally rises by 2 times, will there not be such a burn-dough contrast?

Will not be. But on condition that it rises and does not have time to fall. Do not forget that there are two "extremes".
And the density of sour cream confuses me a little. Can make everything thicker?

Thank you, Vika. Another question is ripe, I read it somewhere here:
there are no lactic acid bacteria in rye sourdough, but in wheat sourdough? Accordingly, the lower storage temperature is different?

there are no lactic acid bacteria in rye sourdough, but in wheat sourdough? Accordingly, the lower storage temperature is different?

There are both here and there, but a different amount. Sourdough is a symbiosis of bacteria, where the main types are yeast and lactic acid. Yeast feed on lactic acid waste products.
We can store the leaven in both cold and warmth. We feed more often in the warmth, less often in the cold. We can also store it at very low temperatures, but then the leaven is not suitable for baking right away, it needs to be restored. Rye tolerates it more easily, but wheat ones get sick and die, and more often they lose their flavor, which is sometimes worse than death.

Ltd! The second bread is already better, twice as thick, but still not baked. The middle caved in after cooling down.
I missed when the dough puffed up and fell off, added flour and stood for another hour.

Vika, when you baked in the cauldron, the lid was removed after how long and why was it needed?
How to make a nice black crust on top?

I missed when the dough puffed up and fell off, added flour and stood for another hour.

You overexposed him in the proofer. And the crumb always has a sticky crumb and there is no ruddy crust. Better to be under-spaced than over-.

Vika, when you baked in the cauldron, the lid was removed after how long and why was it needed?
How to make a nice black crust on top?

To create a "chamber" for steam. The oven is large and steam is distributed throughout it. And under the lid, it holds better. Time should be tried and determined empirically. Minimum - 10 minutes, maximum - 30. Optimally, as for me - 20 minutes.

I'm trying to get some raisin sourdough again. There have been many attempts, but it does not work. The first entry - the leaven literally grows 2-3 times in a day, runs away from the can. And then I tried different options:
- mixed a couple of tablespoons of flour and water into the leaven;
- left 2 tbsp. l. sourdough, added 100 grams of water and flour;
- left 60 grams of sourdough and added 60 grams of flour and water.
The result is one - at first it begins to bubble, but does not grow, and after a day the water exfoliates from above. All the time he stands in the same place - near the battery.
I cannot understand what is the matter. Is the moon in the wrong phase?

The result is one - at first it begins to bubble, but does not grow, and after a day the water exfoliates from above. All the time he stands in the same place - near the battery.
I cannot understand what is the matter. Is the moon in the wrong phase?

The leaven is hot, the moon has nothing to do with it. It is necessary to feed and feed. You will have to feed very often at room temperature, find a place 15-12 * C you will feed 1-2 times a day and everything will return to normal.
Are you sure about flour?