Yoghurt maker - choice, reviews, questions of operation (2)

Has anyone used such a yogurt steamer?
I'd love to hear feedback ...

Girls, I join !!! Something nobody answered. I also want to take one, I was attracted by the fact that you can cook yogurt, and cottage cheese, and desserts!

They did not answer, because no one had one here yet. I googled, looked, there is no such thing in Ukrainian stores, in Russian ones, but I haven't seen any reviews anywhere, maybe a new model, there is still no one to write reviews.

[Alyosha]

Alyosha, Found a few words about Philips
🔗

Amazing link, for some reason at the end: author = Mona1, what have I to do with it ??? I followed the link, but there was nothing about me either ...

Tanya is probably just a citation error, no more ...

I realized that there was some kind of confusion here, another surprised that even in this form, the link opens.

but did not see any reviews anywhere

Tanya, there are reviews, but some kind of enthusiastic, not the same as one would find here, with a layout for pros and cons. Most importantly, I want to know if it is overheating, but about this, no gu-gu. On the plus side, there is a large bowl, an additional sieve, for products such as cottage cheese or Greek yogurt. An interesting function - first he heats up the milk to 80 degrees, then waits for the milk to cool down, after which you can add sourdough, all actions are accompanied by a squeak. Some kind of misunderstanding with a timer. It is not clear whether it is possible to connect a thermostat, in which case. I fell for her too, but I'll wait.

You know, there are so many buttons that I think everything is on automatic-electronics, so I'm sure that the option with a thermostat won't work. This is only if you take a chance in the hope that everything will be fine.
Again, we mainly use ultra-pasteurized milk, it is not necessary to boil it, but only heat it to 36-38 degrees. I would not want it to be heated to 80, and then cooled, there will be less usefulness in milk, I think, at the same time. And the moment that cools to the desired temperature, and then you need to add the leaven is also somehow incomprehensible: for different leavens, in principle, because different temperatures are needed. Yes, and eats more electricity 20 times more than a simple yogurt maker, although this may not be so important. Well, I don't know what to say, in general.
If someone buys everything, then write here at least the impression of what kind of beast is.

You know, there are so many buttons that I think everything is on automatic-electronics, so I'm sure that the option with a thermostat won't work. This is only if you take a chance in the hope that everything will be fine.
Again, we mainly use ultra-pasteurized milk, it is not necessary to boil it, but only heat it to 36-38 degrees. I would not want it to be heated to 80, and then cooled, there will be less usefulness in milk, I think, at the same time. And the moment that cools to the desired temperature, and then you need to add the leaven is also somehow incomprehensible: for different leavens, in principle, because different temperatures are needed. Yes, and eats more electricity 20 times more than a simple yogurt maker, although this may not be so important. Well, I don't know what to say, in general.
If someone buys everything, then write here at least the impression of what kind of beast is.

By the way, when I disassembled Vivo Termomaster 201, there is a thermal sensor, which is attached with aluminum foil to one of the recesses - "glasses" in the middle, that is, an aluminum oval is heated with 2 thermoelements, which stands at the bottom of the glasses, but does not directly touch their bottom, but the temperature sensor above the heating one in 5 centimeters from this plate.

Amazing link, for some reason at the end: author = Mona1, what have I to do with it ??? I followed the link, but there was nothing about me either ...

Sorry, I corrected the link. At first I wanted to give as an answer to your message, then I edited it but did not notice that I did not delete the part.

[i.e. 2 thermoelements heats up the aluminum oval, which stands at the bottom of the glasses]

By the way, when I disassembled Vivo Termomaster 201, there is a thermal sensor, which is attached with aluminum foil to one of the recesses - "glasses" in the middle, i.e. 2 thermoelements heats up the aluminum oval, which stands at the bottom of the glasses, but does not directly touch their bottom, but the thermal sensor above the heating one in 5 centimeters from this plate.

It is now clear why the bottom (side) of the glasses is heated more, by the way, did they put the cardboard boxes on the bottom? Although with such a design, which you described, it is more logical to wrap the glasses at the bottom with something around the perimeter. But we did a good job with the cardboard boxes too. Although they do not protect much from the side, the cardboard itself is thick, perforated and the glass, standing on it, rises, and due to the fact that it is not cylindrical, but slightly conical in shape, then it ceases to strongly press its sides tightly against the walls of the recess, appears as if an air gap, and the surface of the glasses heats up more evenly.

If someone buys everything, then write here at least the impression of what kind of beast is.

I'm going to buy this particular yogurt maker as soon as the weather permits - I also dig all week reviews - I only found that this model 42 is a novelty and a poured predecessor - yogurt makers with a Philips HD9141 / 00 steamer function, they differ only in that one model has an additional basket for the second course, but not for the other. Therefore, I have already read reviews for 41 models. And I'll buy the 42nd if I'll tell you right away what and how. And I have one question - I keep thinking - does not the same yogurt come out in a multicooker?

You can also do it in a multicooker, in my Dex60, for example, there is a Yogurt function, there are 40 gaduses on it, there are multicooker with a Manual mode and the possibility of setting 40 degrees, but there are also starter cultures for which 36-38, and often a yogurt maker can produce more than 40, and for example 41-42. So you have to try, each individual multi has its own temper.
So I experimented, I made yogurt in a cartoon in jars from my yogurt maker, they stand there on the lower steamer, I did not pour water between the jars.

If there is no such steamer, then the girls in the cartoon branch put linen napkins on linen napkins or on a silicone substrate under the hot.
But I made fermented baked milk in half-liter cans. Three pieces fit freely, some even push 4, but I didn't try, but then I just put it on a napkin, because if the lid won't close on the steamer. And when I was making fermented baked milk, I poured warm water up to the shoulders of the jars, but then, another time, I made yogurt without water, as in the picture. In different ways, you can. I heard that they just make a cartoon in a bowl, but then it is necessary to pour over the containers, while the structure is broken, and it seems to me that yogurt is heated more strongly with this method than if it costs in jars. But, as I say, who has what kind of character the multi has.

But, as I say, who has what kind of character the multi has.

Then I will definitely stop at the yogrut maker :-)

Anh, do you already have a cartoon or not, and you think: buy this or that? If you don't have a multi at all, then I would start shopping with a multicooker, this is an irreplaceable thing for cooking, and if you already have one, then try to make yogurt in it (well, only if there is a Yogurt program or you can manually make 40 degrees)
But, of course, it would be nice to take a good cartoon, so that there were programs Frying and Baking.
Although, if only yoghurts are now relevant, then a separate yoghurt maker, of course, is better and cheaper than a much good multicooker. I have 2 multi. In one you can make yogurt, and in the other you cannot, there are no suitable modes there, but in the yogurt maker I liked yogurt more. But, at the same time, she is tamed by a thermostat. And if it weren't, then there would be more than 45 degrees, and in that case, I, of course, would do it in the cartoon.

Anh, do you already have a cartoon or not, and you think: buy this or that?

Exactly! I'm wondering if I need a cartoon or not. Or buy one yogurt maker? Since I love baking and bake every day, I won't bake that in a cartoon. I like to bake food in the oven. So all I need is a yoghurt maker :-)

For the preparation of yoghurts, no slow cooker or yogurt maker is needed (although I have both - I concluded they are not needed at all). Heat to 38-40 degrees (strictly according to the instructions) - I pre-boil, and then cool. Pour into a sterilized bottle (I make for 3 liters). Add starter powder (I'm using good food, but others are possible). Stir and wrap well. Can be placed under the battery (but not required). 10-12 hours (according to the instructions) and gorgeous yogurt. The main thing is that everything is sterile (bottle, spoons, thermometer for water, etc.). Then I re-ferment with this yogurt 1-2 times (for 3 liters - 3 tablespoons of yogurt).

For the preparation of yoghurts, no multicooker or yoghurt maker is needed ...

And we are already writing the second volume for some reason.
Wrapping the bottle under the battery is very easy, and then scoop it out of the bottle. Again, the bottle from the side of the battery heats up more. And in the summer you can't attach it to the battery.
And as you watch, so as not to overheat, the battery is very hot today, and tomorrow it is barely warm. We're fighting for every degree here, it's a little overheated - the serum and the useful bacilli have died, but it doesn't get warm, it's too bad. But, if you succeed, then do what else to say.

I have a yogurt maker. At first I did it for two months. It just didn't work in the yogurt maker in the summer. Because the heat + heating the yogurt maker. Peroxides. I threw this yogurt maker. And I've been doing it for two years without her. According to the principle that I wrote above. You can put it under the battery, but you can not put it - this is not essential. The main thing is to wrap it up well. IT'S ALWAYS gorgeous without a yogurt maker. Never oozed. Strictly according to the instructions, the temperature (with a thermometer for water) and time (according to the instructions) must be withstood. And then I re-ferment with this yogurt 2 more times. For 3 liters - 2-3 tablespoons of yogurt. Only the time must be kept a little less, less than two hours. And in vain you are being ironic. I shared my own experience, which has been tested for two years - I make yogurt 2 times a week (three liters each). The yogurt maker in my house is gathering dust in the attic. And you are fighting for temperature precisely because you do it in a yogurt maker. I also suffered with the yogurt maker. One time it worked, another time it got acidic. And the last two years (without the yogurt maker) - no problem.

No, I'm glad that you succeed, you only make yoghurts for six months, during the heating season?
We would buy a thermostat and everything, and no heat in summer will hurt.
And they did not answer how they manage to maintain the temperature required for each specific leaven.

Of course I do it in the summer. I repeat, it's not the battery that matters. The battery is not the point at all. The main thing is to wrap it up well. The temperature must be kept right away (when filling in the powder). And then the milk will cool a little, but it will still be warm enough. Yoghurt turns out great - never acidifies

The temperature must be kept right away (when filling in the powder).

OOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo, I’m such a lunukha and I’m definitely not capable of such feats :-)))) To wrap it up, put it somewhere, to withstand - I’m too lazy to move his bed to another room and lay a blanket there, and then fiddle with yogurt like that :-) ) Not the same for me.

It's just that Phillips that we are looking at, there is also cottage cheese and sour cream and desserts, not just yogurt. Yes, and cooks the same porridge (she's a yogurt-steamer)

Anh, well here sho think then, if you liked it, fell into the soul, so you have to take it. And when you really want something, then even if you are looking for some reviews, you read the good ones several times, reread, and if somewhere bad, then you try to quickly slip through it. I myself am. Otherwise you won't buy it, then you will regret it. We live once, so what, come on! Show off later.

Here! Tan, dug, see what review: 🔗 in my opinion it's better and we wouldn't describe it :-)

[and then we just have to turn the bowl so that excess liquid drains]

Yes, an amusing thing, I confused, however, a few moments, here's a quote from there, I highlighted in bold what worries me:

"Milk is poured into a bowl, heated, cooled, leaven is added, then a long process of converting milk into yogurt, and then we just have to turn the bowl so that excess liquid drains, that is, we weigh the resulting yoghurt directly in the unit. I did it all in between times the process of preparing yoghurt in such an amount takes 14 hours, but after 12 I put it up for weighing, and probably after 4 hours it was ready. "

What is this liquid - whey, or condensate?
And how long did he prepare for her: 12 hours plus 4 hours? Of course, this is not stressful, you can, for example, put it at night, the question is how much such a duration is beneficial for bacteria. From my own experience, I know that often yogurt is prepared faster than indicated in the instructions for the ferment, 6-7 hours, and the over-ferment is much less. Is it possible to somehow control the time in this thing, probably, it is possible, there are so many buttons. But I really didn’t like the photo, where she took out yogurt with a spoon, it’s kind of loose, all grains, kind of tortured. Maybe overexposed or mixed badly. And if you do it wisely, it will be fine.
By the way, I liked the jars, they are a copy of mine. If so, you can buy an additional kit if you wish. Look, I bought this one, it's a pity, in Russia for some reason they don't sell it, so, as they say: You will be with us on Kolyma Ukraine, you can buy then.
🔗

And if you do it wisely, it will be fine.

In general, we will try it ourselves :-))). What kind of yoghurt do you have? Or do you cook in Dex?

Anh, I have a Clatronic JM3344, well, plus a thermostat was bought separately for her. by the way, if there is a word TECHNOLOGY under my profile picture below. If you click on it, then my assistants will appear there, you yourself, by the way, can do that too if you want.

If you click on it

ABOUT! exactly! I just saw the price of it super, unlike Phillips :-) Even though I am not prejudiced against the Vitek technique, they praise their yogurt maker, I look at the reviews: Vitek Yoghurt Maker VT-2602 W Vitek Yoghurt Maker does the same cottage cheese - also cheese. .. but the soul does not lie to her - yes, and it looks like a lot of space.

But my price, though super, but without a thermostat, it overheats, like almost everything. So, so, I immediately took what is simpler and at the same time ordered a thermostat.

I want to make live yogurt and other products! A week later I will buy, but I don’t know which one. I wanted not expensive, but so as not to overheat. Then I read about some regulators, and I did not understand: are they built-in or should I buy them? They are expensive?

In order for you to be given advice, at least you need to indicate where you live - Ukraine, Russia or others - the choice of yogurt makers depends on this.
And with your question you need to go to the topic of choosing yogurt makers right here

And a lot has already been discussed about thermostats.

Clatronic JM3344

Tan, the other day I have the same banks (your link didn’t open for me, something with my Internet is not good today, so purely a guess) I bought them in the Internet store Eldorado ... They also approached my yogurt maker, they even 0.5 cm lower than the native jars from my yogurt maker (due to the fact that the bottom is thinner than mine)

Jars for the SEVERIN EG 3517 yogurt maker, 8 pcs in a box - these are the ones I bought

Interestingly, they are suitable for Moulinex?

[Eldorado now has a 20% discount on them]

Tashenka, they have a height of 8 cm. I can measure in girth, right? Eldorado now has a 20% discount on them - there is no such price anywhere else! It cost me 471 rupees ... Who needs additional banks - it's time to buy!

I add: in the girth - 14.7 cm ("where will we make the waist?")

🔗

Tan, the other day I have the same banks (your link for something did not open for me, something with my Internet is not good today, so purely an assumption) I bought in the Internet store Eldorado ...They also came up to my yogurt maker, they are even 0.5 cm lower than the native jars from my yogurt maker (due to the fact that the bottom is thinner than mine)
Jars for the SEVERIN EG 3517 yogurt maker, 8 pcs in a box - these are the ones I bought

I went to try on mine: the height is 8.5 cm, but I did not measure the girth, but the diameter was 6.5 cm. The volume is 160 ml. Well, in appearance, they are so very similar to yours. Are they glass there, with a screw cap?

P.S. By the way, we're on YOU, right? And then it's just a mess. Moreover, they called my manunka - a granddaughter Anastasia, so we are practically relatives.

and I didn’t like yoghurt in a fancy yoghurt steamer in the photo
just some pudding, bee

[Mona1]

Mona1,
Tanya,

Yes, the jars are glass and with a screw-on lid in mouse-gray (the quality of the ebb is not German for the lids, though ... Although it is written in Germany) 8 cm is without a screwed lid, it will add a couple of millimeters. My Chinese yogurt maker will have better quality lids from my own cans ...

Tan, oh! Today I have an Internet opened your link about Clathronic banks - here, just such banks are in my yogurt-native! they have a plump bottom, as it were, drawn by a "duck", the plastic of the covers is glossy. Growth 8.5cm clearly if without a cover. And the Severinovskys have a spare gray lid rough on the outside, the bottom is thinner just by the same 0.5 cm in height

Well, their diameter and volume are the same. If you pour almost into the edge, then 210 ml, and if on the shoulders, then just 160-170 ml of yogurt is included

Tan, and girls - tell me, please, what does the yogurt in the yogurt maker taste like? While I was waiting for the card in the m video and did not buy my own - I made it in the oven last night from homemade milk and activation - I did it according to this recipe
The taste is delicious, but the second time I’m hardly going to such body movements. And I would describe the taste as a very tender and homogeneous curdled milk or snow, but not yogurt. And in the yogurt maker, what is the taste?

Anya, it's not about the yogurt maker, yogurt can be made in any way - and in a multicooker / pressure cooker, a thermos, generally wrapped in a blanket on a battery, as it was recently described here, the essence of the ZAKVASK from which you make yogurt and Activia is not the most suitable product for this. Ideally, there should be a live bacterial starter culture, in a bag (such a powder), and it is she who provides the yoghurt taste. But keep in mind that it will differ from the usual store with a bunch of dyes, thickeners, etc.

[rusja]

The taste is delicious, but the second time I’m hardly going to such body movements. And I would describe the taste as a very tender and homogeneous curdled milk or snow, but not yogurt. And in the yogurt maker, what is the taste?

Anh, drop a spoonful of tea jam into a jar before eating, very tasty, I often add, though not from Activia, but from powder, like Olya rusja told you correctly.

Anh, drop a spoonful of tea jam into a jar before eating, very tasty, I often add, though not from Activia, but from powder, as Olya rusja correctly suggested to you.

:) nyayayaka. I found these on sale with us:

And the taste with powders will differ from curdled milk? And then my son tried it - and it says - it's not yogurt, eat yogurt yourself. And it turned out really tender and tasty ... So interesting in the powder, the taste is different?

Well, they have a different taste, somewhere more sour, somewhere neutral, it depends on the composition of the bacteria, it also depends on the cooking temperature, milk, overexposed or not in a yogurt maker. And there is more tender or more dense. Some are positioned as the first complementary food for babies, so it will pass through the nipple, so thin. So it depends a lot. And everyone has their own taste, someone likes it, someone else. I didn’t do it like in the picture, I don’t know. But I'm sure they all don't look like a store-bought one if done without additives. And with jam I have a direct taste, like a store, or rather tastier, as for my taste, but comparable to the taste of a store.

Now I will try with sourdough) THANKS !!!

In search of a yogurt maker, I went to this forum.Thank you, a lot has developed in my head, it has been confirmed. I will definitely buy a thermostat, but it's still time, but I want it now without overheating. But I can't decide on the yogurt maker myself, help me, pzhl.
I choose between:
1. Yoghurt maker Ariete 85 1400 rub. I like the compactness, it is convenient to put it and you can put something on top, because I do not plan to remove it. many reviews about it are good, but apparently someone who understands writes that there is overheating, and the main thing is uneven heating of the cans in the middle and along the edges, you need to rearrange. and a bowl for curd is more difficult to find.
2.Clatronic JM 3344, 990 rubles. 150 x 240 x 240, 7 jars. Didn't find detailed reviews. basically everyone is happy, but this is without temperature measurements. Here I met a small tip, that is, everything is ok with the thermostat, but without it also overheats? how strong? can you make cottage cheese?
3.Maxwell MW-1430, 990 rubles. the sizes are not clear, China, 5 small jars.
4. Yoghurt maker DEX DYM-108. in Moscow did not find. Confuse plastic cups, I want beautiful jars, the same. Is she really the only one that doesn't overheat ??? I got this impression after many days of study.
Help, pzhl. advice. Questions about the models: convenience, durability, temperature maintenance, and uniform heating.

Ani, here you can read, I wrote here in this post and the following one about which yogurt maker to choose or not to choose, and about Arietta in particular.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=18181.0
Dex108, which you wrote about, is sold only in the Ukrainian market, but even in it it overheats over time for many, and in the heat of summer, this is a common thing for any yogurt maker, even for a low-powered Arietta.
I have the Clathronic 3344, which you indicated. High-quality assembly, glass jars, but knowing in advance that all the yogurt makers overheat, I immediately took the thermostat with it, below I give links, - here I took the thermostat, it is the first on the page there.
🔗
thermostat RT-10 / P01, they send to Russia. Just ask for a flat wire from the sensor (specify an option - for a yogurt maker), so that the wires can be easily skipped under the lid of the yogurt maker.
like they wrote that it would be cheaper than taking it in Russia, but find out, maybe you have something for sale nearby.
The thermostat can be bought in Russia, here the girls gave a link
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=170887.0
And so, the general advice is this, and I almost write through the page here, probably already read: You need to buy the simplest yoghurt maker - that is, so that there is one button - On / Off and buy a thermostat (that is, a yoghurt maker without automation, in such the thermostat cannot be connected). I would buy Dex 108 from your list, taking into account the reviews in this thread, but since you are from Russia and they are not sold there, then such as mine, Clatronic JM 3344, it works great in tandem with a thermostat, I already have everything I bought it for relatives, just a few months ago, look how they are tested with thermostats in my kitchen.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=18065.0
The bottom, however, in Klatronic on the side where the cord enters, heats up a little more and in the center too, because there under these places the heating element plate is located, so I put a thick cardboard box in the center. The bottom, it seems to me, is not quite the same for everyone, and in principle, with the presence of a thermostat and a cardboard in the center at the bottom, this is not a significant point.
Well, or any simplest, if not Clathronic.

In search of a yogurt maker, I went to this forum. Thank you, a lot has developed in my head, it has been confirmed. I will definitely buy a thermostat

If you take a thermostat, the most reasonable thing is to buy any yogurt maker with glass jars worth 600 rubles. You can find it in any hypermarkets. I have from Ashan. Someone from Okay .... My experience: I corrected using the programmable on-off timer from Leroy Merlin, the yogurt is perfect.Yogurt maker 599r (Selekline, twin of Clatronic JM 3344) +138 rub timer ... + additional jars 470r, 8pcs (from Eldorado). Honest pioneer, you shouldn't pay extra money ...! See the volume of the cans only - so that the incomplete ones are in 160-170 ml (full 200-220 ml, but no one pours full)

[Tanya]

Girls,Tanya, Anastasia, thanks a lot for the answers. I understood everything, well, it seems. I would love to go shopping, but the child is sick again - we sit at home. I choose from what is on Ozone, there is now an interesting promotion about Gold status for the duration of the Olympiad (this is for book lovers, who may come in handy).
Found a thermostat 🔗 but is sold together with 20 Yogurtel starter cultures. How do they taste? And 20 leavens is as long as it will be. There is also Vivo's website in Moscow. 🔗
Which ones are tastier? I understand what the taste and color are. But so as not to be sour. And how much starter culture should I take if I make yogurt every other day. Now I'm doing it on Narine in a double boiler, I've adapted. as they say, with dances and tambourines. if the thermometer inside shows 40-41, then in banks from 37.3 to 39. in general, it's okay so far. near the battery in the thermos almost curdled.
Anastasia, but tell us about the principle of operation of that thermostat from Leroy, pzhl.

The timer is mechanical. Costs in Leroux Merlin 138 rubles. like this:



Programmable by pressing-sinking (I do this with the tip of a ballpoint pen) segments around the circumference of the dial, one segment = 15 minutes. The photo shows these segments, they are black



Within 24 hours, you can do as many on / off operations as you like. While the triangle on the white disk is opposite the recessed segment, the tamer passes current and the yoghurt maker heats up, the disk has gone beyond the recessed segment, the click does not heat ... If the timer is kept in the outlet all the time, then it “runs” like a clock, regardless of whether whether I use a yogurt maker or not. Regardless of whether it is stuck in there at all or not ... If you pull it out of the socket, it does not go. In reality, if you have it all the time in the outlet and you, when you first plugged it in there, set real time by twisting the disk (and there were no power outages in the house) - then it shows the time of day exactly, it is opposite the "indicating triangle"

Since I make yogurt when in the first half of the day, when - in the second, so as not to program it accordingly again for this half of the day, I simply programmed it for 7 hours from 24.00 to 7 in the morning, and as soon as I poured milk with sourdough into the jars, I put them on and turn the timer forcibly as if it were just 24.00 now ..... sii ... let's go. .. but I myself just keep an eye on the end of the 6th hour .... whoever had time to thicken, I put it in the refrigerator, who didn’t have time, it’s usually 2-3 cans around the circumference, then I leave it for a while. If you need to turn on this "lagging" heating, and according to the programmed there it is not yet time for it to turn on, then there is a toggle switch on the timer on the side (it is not visible in the photo, since it is on the other side), so that the current goes directly, without using the timer function. This tumbler is a very handy thing .... My yogurt maker starts to overheat after three hours of work. Therefore, the last times I do with Genesis sourdough is like this: it heats continuously for three hours, then every hour it turns on for 15 minutes. That is, between 24.00 and 3.00 I have all the segments drowned, and from 3.00 to 7.00 every four are not drowned, but one is drowned, again every four are not drowned and one is drowned ... I hope I explain it clearly ... In 6 hours it is ready usually. The temperature in the central jar at the end of cooking is about 39, around the circumference is lower by 0.4-0.8 degrees (constructive disadvantages of yogurt makers). The yoghurt turns out without a single wrinkle and serum, despite the fact that the preparation time of the Genesis BioYoghurt (which I am making now) is normally a little longer. It would seem that once it is faster, then maybe overheating was ... but no! ... she grazed this business with two thermometers on purpose! in 6 hours. Norms are approximate. Depend on both the freshness of the starter and the temperature in the room ...