Bread does not work in Panasonic

I have an old woman 253 and there is a recipe for Bread with apples one to one Apple from lopyshok, 4 cups of flour, about 150 g each (also in the cups, the recipe is indicated and the approximate amount of flour is 150 g per cup), that is, for 600 g of flour.
So this is a Panasonic recipe. But taking into account the fact that this is the maximum allowable amount of flour for CP, apparently the manufacturer had in mind the extremely dense bread. It turns out that, according to the idea of ​​the engineers of Panasonic for the size XL, I don't like it, but it is necessary to reduce the amount of yeast so that they cannot greatly raise the bread.
Personally, my opinion: they do not seek from the good for the good. If you like the crumb consistency, then it's easier to change the size.
But according to the manufacturer's idea, under 600 g it is necessary to select the yeast so that it does not raise the bread too much. It shouldn't take off and hit the roof. There is a small thought that today we love more airy bread than we used to.

I have an old woman 253 and there is a recipe for Bread with apples one to one Apple from lopyshok, 4 cups of flour, about 150 g each (also in the cups, the recipe is indicated and the approximate amount of flour is 150 g per cup), that is, for 600 g of flour.

I got into my recipes for Panas - I have a European 2501. I have a slightly different recipe.

Apple cider bread, menu mode 01, size M

Yeast 1 tsp
Wheat baking flour - 500 gr
Apple, grated - 1 pc
Sugar - 1 tbsp
Salt - 1 tsp
Ground white pepper - 1/2 tsp
Cider - 300 ml
Rosemary - 1 tsp

Apple cider bread

Ooh, yours is delicious, on cider. With pepper. And a little yeast, in the cider, I suppose its own yeast walks.
To bake something like that, somewhere I saw cider on sale, in Vkusville it seems ...

In terms of variability, according to my instructions, as there is in Apple bread. But for 600 g of flour, you can either take 300 g of water, or 150 g of juice + 150 g of water, or take an additional 50 g of water instead of an egg.

For me, if you translate cider into bread, it will be a bit fat.
Why ... cider is like apple juice with alcohol. You can try to save

In general, everyone is almost the same, except that they removed the oil from Sveta and reduced the yeast. For me, it should be tastier with butter. But the yeast was reduced most likely given the fact that now they are stronger than the old ones.
That is, most likely the guess to reduce yeast in old recipes is correct.

[lopyshok]

For me, it should be tastier with butter.

It's just that I am such sweet and rich rolls, as in the recipe lopyshok, I don’t like it, but according to Sveta, a more "bread" version should be obtained.
In general, I've already bought the cider, I'll bake it - I'll bring it to show.

[wrong scapula]

Vit, when I put it on in the evening, I do not always wake up at night, it costs bread in Panasik calmly until morning and even the crust will not soak. And I'm afraid to knock, I just shake it sharply, and if it doesn't come out anyway, I use a silicone spatula around the perimeter to "swing" the loaf and then shake it out, but I only had this when I baked with wrong scapula, on the spatula, a piece of bread was left right after being removed. There will be a sale soon on Ali, buy a shovel - do not suffer.

Mandraik Lyudmila, what is the right / wrong scapula?
Did you buy a shovel for Ali? I looked there the prices are the same as in our stores for them, and their sales are more a joke than a sale ...
My spatula also remains in the bread maker after taking it out and there is bread on it ... but my old woman is already scratched ...

[lopyshok]

lopyshok, I bought my mom a cheap Panasik on Avita without shoulder blades, and that's why I gave her my shoulder blade.I ordered myself from us on Juno (this is such a market), received by my son and therefore could not determine how authentic it is. When I inserted it into the panasik, it turned out that the scapula does not hold tightly to the pin, it happened, even during the rise, the dough removed the scapula Now I have scapulae, they exactly coincide with my relatives - you cannot tell, so now nothing falls off, everything is fine

so now nothing falls off, everything is fine

Please, post a link to the seller, you can in a personal

Here are my sufferings for apple bread ... I baked at the smallest size ... Continuous nerves with this bread ... Now it also stuck to HB ... this has never happened in my history ... Here is delicious .. very tasty, but ... And I didn't like the porosity (airiness) this time ... So if anyone has a proven recipe for apple bread, I'll be glad ...
Let me remind you of my recipe:

And the result:

[overly]

Since the topic is completely silent, and the picture with bread is very unusual, I will make a number of assumptions.

1. The Libra isn't lying? It's just very strange that with the same !!!!! (was it exactly the same flour and juice?) the ingredients are so different. Even if the first time there was a very high rise, why didn't it stick to the bucket?
Be that as it may, but there is a fact that this time something has changed besides the weight of the products.

2. Of course, the whole picture is due to the lack of balance between yeast and apples.
Apple supplement is a very, very powerful ingredient.
First of all, it is always a doping for yeast, they become literally mad on it. Their favorite treat.
Secondly, apple juice or puree is a very strong acidic environment that greatly strengthens the gluten, making it overly elastic.
This results in low volume and fine porosity.

That is, on the one hand, the yeast gasses like crazy, and if there is a little apple additive, then the bread grows wildly.
And if there is an excess of malic acid, then the gluten becomes too elastic, and the mad yeast makes an explosion in the bread.

If there is not a lot of yeast, then the gluten can resist normally, but the bread can turn out to be low with a fine porosity, because the elastic gluten does not allow the bread to rise. And the sweeter the juice, the darker the crust will be, and even darkening of the crumb may be observed.

In short, it seems to me, but I'm not a technologist, that there was too much yeast for the purchased wheat flour - as the main reason, and, perhaps, the second - too much apple component, she over-strengthened the flour.
The flour could not stand the oxidation, and the yeast broke the bread in Fig. Moreover, they broke off early enough, not at the baking stage, but at the fermentation stage - was the juice, or what, was also very sweet?
Or maybe the gluten was quite tolerant there, it was normal there for apples - the crumb was light, the crust was not too dark, but mad yeast scattered the bread right away.
In general, the yeast just this time proved to be too active, and at an early stage.
That is why the sticky (acid-reinforced dough has an increased stickiness), the incoherent dough was scattered over a bucket and it was boiled during baking. This is how I see the reason.

The only thing, it is not clear why the first time the same did not happen? why didn't it break right away the first time too? I do not know. Something has changed this time. Maybe the juice was sweeter? Did the yeast gas more now?

In general, what would I personally do.

First of all, I would take the amount of yeast even 0.25 percent lower than usually I take it for the usual everyday loaf.
Why? because there are apples, the activity will be higher than usual. And the sweeter the juice, the more it would reduce yeast.
Secondly...
I would have left the same amount of juice, and took the smallest apple straight. Malipusechku.
Below, I theoretically estimated by weight how it should be.

I rummaged through the literature. Apple dry additives above 15 percent by weight of flour are already dumb to use. Enhances normal flour too much. It is for this reason that they like to add apples to 1 grade, which is weaker than the premium grade.
That is, the question is in the concentration of juice and the size of the added apple. The total dry matter in them should not exceed 15 percent of the flour.
Well, I guess, in the juice of dry matter 11 percent (if without pulp. With pulp already more). That is, it does not exceed the standard. Any juice can be left in its entirety.
But the addition of apples should already be dosed. In an apple, the dry matter does not exceed 25 percent of the weight of the apple.

Well, if it's straightforward to count, then simply you can take any juice density, but there should not be more apples for complete safety.

apple pieces weight no more = 15 (flour weight - juice weight) / 25

In theory, with such an amount of juice + apple, with a normal decrease in yeast, there should be no problems, provided there is flour Not really strong.

The stronger the flour, the more you need to reduce the apple component. Alas, there is only to watch and try.
If it explodes, it is necessary to reduce the yeast. If it doesn't explode, but fine porosity and rough, tasteless crumb - it is necessary to reduce the apple component: there are too many acids for flour.
And again. Juice is different from juice. One is straight sour, and the other is sweet and watery. The more watery, the less active and more you can take without fear. The apple is more difficult. There is not only acid, there is also pectin and something there. You cannot overdo it with an apple, regardless of its sweetness and sourness.

fffuntic, thanks a lot for your opus ...

fffuntic, yes you are right ... I did it without juice this time, well, what is there 100 grams (I thought) ... on XL size I baked 2 times and 2 times "got out" pretty much ... on a small size it stuck to the bowl (without juice) ... in many years of baking (SD-255) - this is the first time ... and the first time in general a joint with bread ...

[Svetlenki]

Here Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4) # 6326
report on baking apple bread, according to the recipe from the instructions Svetlenki.

I was going for a long time, but I bought myself a bread maker Pani Sonya
I baked the third loaf today and everything turned out great
...

The conversation about impressions has been moved to the corresponding topic

Hooray! Bought Panasonic. First impressions. # 2131

I have a question about flour. Who baked bread with French Thing flour? How does she behave compared to McPhae? I only used it for baking pies in the oven, but is it suitable for cotton? Once I baked bread on it and I was upset with the result: The roof was flat and slightly sunken. The bread itself is delicious. Before baking, the dough was flush with the edges of the bucket, and when baking, it sank. I think this flour requires less yeast compared to Macfa. More: When kneading, the bun was some kind of loose as a hedgehog and demanded to be slightly moistened. I poured water on it 2-3 tablespoons of the dining room. Maybe in vain!

I ask for advice. Bread rose badly for a very long time. I solved the problem myself by sorting out yeast-flour-water. Now suddenly the same problem arose again.
Prog - 01
Wheat flour "Limak" 1 grade - 350 gr.
Rye flour "Kudesnitsa" - 50 gr.
Pressed yeast (good-break) - 8 gr.
Sugar, salt - by prescription (1 m / l large and small)
Water - 240 ... 250 ml.
Oil p / s - 1 tbsp. l.
Size M
The crust is medium.
I probably missed a lot, and during this time a solution may have been found that allows me to solve the problem "at once!" without going through the ingredients.



Photo of bread
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Once he told me how I, without any knitting needles and other picks, pulled a spatula out of bread with my bare fingers.

She's stuck today.

Demonstrating. Here is the scapula

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I squeeze my fingers around the sleeve

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The direction of the knife is visible

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I crush the bread with my fingers along the knife blade on both sides

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I grab the knife with my fingers and pull

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Voila!

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Everything about everything took 37 seconds and the camera got in the way.

Happy bread everyone!

[Vital]

Vital, I will not offer anything new
By the look of your loaf (oblique, the crust at the bottom is heterogeneous, the dough piece did not even have time to be distributed over the bucket ...), we can assume that there is not enough water. Due to the tightness of the dough, the yeast does not rise to the desired level during the program.

In this regard, I propose to make sure that the scales work accurately (working batteries, measurement in grams ...).

[Vital,]

Vital, nothing changed. The search for the problem is still the same.
Stove:
1. Make sure that you don't have a draft in the stove, it will interfere with the rise in the stove. The position is strictly horizontal and not in a draft.
2. The most unlikely malfunction - on fermenting, touch the shades, should feel warm.
Ingredients:
1. Well, you know already ...
- immediately check the yeast: fifteen minutes after starting the program (to pour right after standing), activate the classically yeast in half a glass of water 35 degrees, if alive and 40-50 - a little hotter, if dry + sugar in the same place, should work in 15 minutes if they don’t give you a hat, the yeast will junk.
- completely remove the rye additive and wheat cakes. Taste the wheat one: it should not be sweet or very bitter, clump sticky - spoiled.
If it works out well, the problem is in the proportion of rye.
- in the process of kneading, stick your nose in and still see that the bun is beautiful. So you will definitely be sure that with water you're all right.
- during fermentation, be sure to stick your nose in and make sure that the dough rises beautifully, that is the shadows warm, touch them with your hand.

If the yeast is good, the shades are warming, and even with wheat it does not work, then she is to blame. If they ate little when mixing the water, the flour was dry or the scales broke (or the battery would soon die and give false readings).
The shoulder stuck because there was a sticky, non-rising mess before baking, and not a normal fluffy dough.

[Waist]

Waist, fffuntic, Thank you!

[Wit]

Wit, according to the recipe and the scoop, - most likely the high moisture content of the flour, possibly due to improper storage (usually seasonally coincides with autumn and spring). Alternatively, if you do not change the flour, + 20-30 g flour 1 sec. or 2 tbsp. l. semolina per 260 ml of water, + 2-3 g of yeast, light crust. Another option can be a full cycle "French" for a bread machine, prepare bread according to any recipe using this program, and then return to your version.

[Wit]

Wit, I agree with Natasha, there was not enough liquid, yet flour of the 1st grade and rye, in my opinion, this is not 260ml, but under 300
And also Svetochka wrote that she was disappointed in Limak

I also don’t like Limak because of its disgusting quality.

Now I had some kind of garbage, I bought a new flour for myself. I saw in the top five Bakery Flour "red price" 2kg, took a look, and on the reverse side it says 1 grade, produced in Ryazan, the address is the same as that of "Ryazanochek". I decided to try it today, for this I decided to bake French, and then the scales started fooling me ... I pour and pour and they show little and they don't fit in a vibrating sieve ... I suspected something was wrong, weighed a bag with the remains of flour, there 1450gr, I already poured 600 grams into the sieve, okay, I think, put the bucket on the scales, zero it, and sift the flour at the same time weighing, again garbage, by eye I see that there is already a lot ... removed the bucket shows -200gr .. In general, I have to to look at the eye on the kolobok .. Maybe the battery needs to be changed, but then we weighed the oil - no problem 25g, checked on jewelry

She's stuck today.

I very rarely get stuck, only if the liquid is too heavy. Never baked on a thick one.

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, well, figs knows, maybe with a lot of weight, more tension is required from a dying battery, or rather longer use of the scales, so it kicks. And then maybe you let the scales stand idle, and then weighed the butter. While there were a little bit of charge, they dug up and they were normally enough for a piece of oil.
In general, it is useless to guess, you need to put another battery in and check.

but for Vital, I still propose to do a direct comprehensive check, it will not hurt to check the oven on one bread once in a hundred years. It's just stupid to follow the process at each stage.
Of course you can, stupidly bake on other ingredients in full and see. It works - old products are bad.
But Vital and without us has known it for a long time.

Galina, tight dough and unbaked dough, sticky - different things. I think the girls are right, something is wrong with the flour. But when it seems ... you yourself know Everything needs to be checked.

[Lena]

you need to put another battery in and check

A low battery symbol usually appears on the scale display in the corner.

Lena, I also had such a plan. I agree with you. I'll try.

low battery symbol.

There are no three "little finger" batteries in these scales, I specially bought them, since I was tortured with the scales on "tablets", they quickly sit down and the contacts there are bad

Can I have a look at the scales?
Contacts can be dealt with, I also fought. But the battery served for several years.

[Wit]

Wit, tell me what to take, the scales themselves, the battery compartment?

[People]

People, get yourself some kind of control with an accurate weight, so that you can quickly weigh yourself at any time to check the scales

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, - scales front view, switched on.

Waist, good advice. I have such a 10 g stick.

[Natasha]

Natasha, here's the right thought, thanks, and you don't need to start anything, I always have a spare pack of rolled oats, just 400g Right now I'll weigh it ... Tex weighed everything, they got scared and now they show everything correctly: packaging of oatmeal 401g, pack of buckwheat 904g, packaging flour in a paper bag 2kg65g. True, I ran the batteries right in their "boxes", that is, if the contacts oxidized, then I scratched them and updated them
Wit, here is a photo of the scales


But bread made from this flour, well, I'm not impressed, but I can't consider the experiment accurate, because the scales are out of order

The low battery symbol should appear on the left in the bottom or top corner. Contacts should not be scrubbed with anything, but wiped with alcohol, vodka, perfume, finally.

[Vitaly]

Vitaly,

Contacts should not be scrambled with anything

So I got nothing, I just ran the batteries right in their place, they themselves refreshed the contact, I always do this

Don't do that again. In the end, you mess up your contacts. After all, it is not difficult to pull out the battery and wipe the contacts in the compartment and on the battery itself.

[Wit]

Wit, obey, mon général

I want to clarify that my task is not just to get well-risen bread, as it should be, but to find the cause of the failure. And there may be several such reasons, as we established last time.
So, this time I excluded rye flour by adding 400 gr. wheat grade 1 Limak. Water - 250 ml (I don't remember how much it was last time). Size M, crust Medium.
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The bread turned out, like last time, delicious !!! And yes, the last time inside there was no non-sagging-viscosity. And then the scapula got stuck, apparently so that I would finally show how I take it out in half a minute with my bare hands without any picks.
I still sin on Limak 1st grade. Next time I will load Limak again (the bread is still delicious!) But the yeast will be the freshest.

[Wit]

Wit, I'm wondering when you will take another flour

The other flour will be at the last stage of verification. Because I already know that there is no high rise because of her. But I must check everything! This is how work taught me.

Buttercup, where are you in such a hurry? "Haste is needed only when fishing ..." Do you remember O. Bender?

[Wit]

Wit, I'm wondering when you will take another flour

current disorderly mice are scattered with good
Until even the old yeast and flour run out, we will look for problems in the stove

Vooot! Gold words. Yeast is exactly at the second stage and ended. Lenochka

[Wit]

Wit, have you tried baking flour "red price" from the top five? She is the same 1st grade, I have not yet understood her

[Buttercup]

I tried it, the flight is normal! But I did not pay attention to the grade. For me, the main criterion is that bread should be tasty. And all sorts of perforation, bubbling - that's for you gourmet professionals.



Honest mother! Exactly! Thousand !!! Buttercup,

She is the same 1st grade, I have not yet understood her

: sorry: Sorry! I was wrong.I have not tried this one, that 1st grade, but I have already bought it and the final stage will be bread made from this flour.

In the meantime, the third stage is the replacement of yeast and the last 400 gr. flour Limak.
And the yeast was not great! I can feel them. And yet the Bread is delicious!
Size M
The crust is medium.
Liquids 250 ml.

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[Wit]

Wit, according to the pictures, this one rose better, although you thought that the yeast was not very good

[Buttercup]

Yes, Buttercup, I noted that too

the crumb is good, but on the side, the hall is thick and the crust is thick, on the water it is almost like a tube in a tube, one could have given more gramme. On the other hand, the roof has already begun to worry, the flour and the minimum barely pulls.
It looks like you're right, weak flour, can barely withstand. But your bread still lacks water.

The last fourth stage Wheat flour 1 grade from Pyaterochka "Red Price". I will report.

We are waiting with

This torment is constantly in trouble. It seems like you find a good batch, you bake it - everything is ok. Then the bang, the batch was changed and the bread became bad, not to mention the baked goods.

The flour may be the same, but stored in different ways.

Reporting the results of the analysis of glitches with baked goods.
So. I replaced the flour with the highest grade (Ryazanochka, wheat) and the baked goods returned to normal. Even the yeast was at its expiration date. Everything is the same as before. There is only one conclusion: I will no longer take Limak 1 grade.

Limak 1 grade I will not take anymore.

Opensource projects, I will take into account, I will look for the "red price" of the 1st grade. For some reason I don't like Pudov, I have never seen Ryazanchki of the first grade, anywhere ... there is a direct problem with flour of the 1st grade