Refrigerator selection

hope why you write nonsense. Liebherr is perhaps the only company, especially a German one, that specializes in refrigeration equipment, and does not grab onto everything. If she's unreliable ...
Where did you get this data? Liebherr an unreliable disposable technique? This is clearly anti-advertising. I remember met on another forum persistent reasoning of one type, which argued that all Liebherr in a year fly "floating" handles. And already through communication in a personal it turned out that he did not have a refrigerator of this brand at all.
I have a refrigerator and freezer of this brand, the first one bought and advised by my friend, everyone works well. In general, I had 2 of my "joints" during operation - and after them the refrigerator works. Once, in panting, he did not close the freezer for a day and left, and the second time someone poured water into the technological hole for condensate and water was poured into everything inside.
I spoke with the specialists serving Liebherr, none of them confirmed your words.
I myself, by occupation, have been working and repairing refrigeration units for a year. How can you not establish the cause of the "breakdown" of the refrigerator? Is this something new or has a locksmith (carpenter) tried to fix it? Refrigerator troubleshooting is one of the simplest devices. Do not know where the breakdown is? Horror. It's another matter that spare parts are needed for repairs, but don't know what's the matter? Well, they made fun.

which is called Side-by-Side ??? I look closely. I want a big oooo fridge in the house))) I'll wait and listen, maybe someone will answer about them.

I have this, Liebher, I'm just crazy about him. What interests you?

Igor.! I, too, was sure that Liebherr is one of the best refrigerators until I faced the problem of replacement. I have 3 refrigerators of this brand in my family. By the way, at 75 cm in a year, my daughter still had a refrigerator handle !!! Daughter's weight -45 kg. The refrigerator was purchased in 2010. Read the reviews now on Liebherr - many have a problem with a frion leak. I just returned from a shopping center, where a consultant talked about the same problem with Liebherr. Since my task is to buy a refrigerator from a European manufacturer with certain parameters, I was offered only 3 options - Neff (very few models) AEG 380 CNXO and Siemens Kg49naz22.
Until you face a problem, you think in stereotypes. What used to be good and of high quality is a controversial issue today. And the repairman was from Iceberg ...
The refrigerator works, the display shows 5 and 18, respectively, but does not turn off and the thermometer located inside the refrigerator shows plus 7 .... So, there is a question of replacement.
Igor! Can't advise - for God's sake, but why write in such a harsh form ??. By the nature of my work, I am engaged in interiors and I think in kitchen appliances as well as you ...

In February my wife and I decided to take a refrigerator, Atlant just got it. How many did not change the sensor for turning on the refrigerator, there is no sense. Spat and connected directly. Plows constantly, freezing a hefty pile of ice on the evaporator.
I choose inexpensive and awesome)). You need a freezer chamber up to 100, and more importantly a freezer, its size is preferable. The choice of the following models:
-Electrolux EN 4000 AOW, Hungary, 21645r, 90 / 285l (large refrigerating chamber) to +38 white
-Liebherr C 4023 (C 40230), Bulgaria, 23990r, 92 / 288l (this is the largest refrigerating chamber) up to +43 white It seems not bad, but Loved ones are not very suitable for repair, one can say disposable, and in reviews I read that 3g and stop freezing ..
-Bosch KGS 39 XL 20 R, Russia, 21075r, 95/257, stainless steel up to +43 or Siemens is the same.
-Like Bosch KGE 39 AW 20 R, Russia, 19425r, 95/257, stainless steel up to +43 or Siemens is the same.
I don’t want KGV KGN from BOSH.

Read the reviews now on Liebherr - many have a problem with a frion leak.
I just returned from a shopping center, where a consultant talked about the same problem with Liebherr.
And the repairman was from Iceberg ...
By the nature of my work, I am engaged in interiors and I think in kitchen appliances as well as you ...

Let's get it in order.
I also respect Neff and Siemens, but Liebherr has begun to conquer the Russian market in recent years. I know many people who, in the last 4-5 years, began to buy exactly luxury equipment (this is due to the increase in salaries due to the rise in oil and gas prices), and not Nord, etc. It is not surprising that the number of breakdowns. Freon can leak out for many reasons, including simply due to elementary careless transportation. When I drifted into the square, the movers bent the supporting leg, so it's just a leg ...
Stop asking salesroom consultants about technology. They won't tell you anything competent. My communication experience suggests that people who work there are far from both household appliances and the interest to learn something about it, and even more so many did not work with it at all. And they change like gloves. Their only task from the bosses is to snatch in stale equipment. I'm not saying bad, it's stale.
Trust me, I have repaired all kinds of equipment. And I can tell you - if the repairman could not determine what the malfunction of the refrigerator was, then his price is worthless. Shabashnik from the street. The refrigerator design is primitively simple. Another thing is the cost of spare parts and repairs.
I am not hinting at your knowledge. But, honestly, I was amazed when the owner of a small furniture store, about 2 years ago, could not understand me that I needed to build in an oven 45 cm high. She just didn’t know that besides 60 cm there are compact ones. What qualifications of the "owner" of the store can we talk about?

Igor! It has recently been that Liebcher has been losing its market position. The same happens with this brand as with the Miele brand. The quality does not correspond to the declared brand. And Liebcher never belonged to luxury technology. The highest is the premium class. And luxury equipment is Sub Zero, General Electric, Maytag, Viking (American) and German Neff, Kuppersbuch,
Gaggenau. And in the homes of people, as you say, close to petrodollars, you will never see a Liebherr refrigerator .. But, unfortunately, we do not belong to them .. So we will be quite satisfied with reliable equipment from other manufacturers.

The type of engine is of great importance, as I understand it. Now it is worth paying attention to inverter motors, which are guaranteed for 10 years. They are put in refrigerators, washing machines, air condos:
"allows you to quickly enter the specified operating mode;
more accurately maintains the set temperature or drum rotation speed;
works much quieter compared to a conventional engine;
much more economical in any operating mode;
carries less load on the power grid.
How does an inverter motor work?
The operation of this type of motors is based on the principle of current inversion. The inverter converts the alternating current of the mains into direct current, and then creates an alternating current of the desired frequency, which determines the speed of the electric motor of the air conditioner, washing machine or refrigerator.
This reduces power consumption when it is necessary to switch to operating modes below the maximum engine power.
Inverter systems use brushless motors, which have a significantly lower noise level due to the absence of friction of parts. This design of the electric motor is more reliable and durable.
Inverter technology allows you to create truly comfortable operating modes of the device, allowing you to flexibly adjust the operating mode of the engine in accordance with the need, without spending too much electricity.
Choosing equipment with an inverter motor is justified if you value comfort and energy efficiency when using appliances for your home. "
Material from the site 🔗

Brother still advises Liebcher. In general, I am inclined to believe that our assembly is not worth taking. In any case, I won't buy a car of our assembly, no matter how much it costs, and nobody's tales and videos about how skillfully, responsibly and with love they collect this from us, I will not be convinced. The people working there say the opposite. Everything, as always, through jo. I bought the car in English assembly.
My brother could not say anything about the Electrolux refrigerator, but he has a washing machine from this company with an assembly in Europe. Very satisfied.

Igor! It has recently been that Liebcher has been losing its position in the market. The same thing happens with this brand as with the Miele brand. The quality does not correspond to the declared brand. And Liebcher never belonged to luxury technology. The highest is the premium class. And luxury equipment is Sub Zero, General Electric, Maytag, Viking (American) and German Neff, Kuppersbuch,
Gaggenau. And in the houses of people, as you say, who are close to petrodollars, you will never see a Liebherr refrigerator .. But, unfortunately, you and I do not belong to them .. So we are quite satisfied with reliable equipment from other manufacturers.

Hope, what are you talking about?
I'm pretty well interested in technology and novelties. In the Murmansk region. (not a poor region and able to afford to buy good equipment) about Liebherr 6-7 years ago and did not hear in our stores of technology. Single copies began to appear about 5 years ago, and now it is sold even in provincial cities. On the contrary, purchases are increasing! The demand is stable.
Once again, Liebherr is a refrigeration technology only. The classification of classes "officially" includes firms that produce a variety of products, and not a separate segment.
It is impossible to judge the quality of technology outside the amount of the ratio of sold-tossed. As sales grow, there is an increase in complaints. I assure you, for the sake of interest, wander around and-no, even the vaunted Neff and Siemens and others have quite a few complaints and discontent. This is life, there is no technology without faults.

And there is not a single person who is dissatisfied with something. Negative reviews are written more often than positive ones, because negative emotions manifest themselves more strongly (from purchases, for sure).
Pts interesting to read your dialogue, but can anyone still advise what to choose? Electrolux or Liebherr.

And there is not a single person who is dissatisfied with something. Negative reviews are written more often than positive ones, because negative emotions manifest themselves more strongly (from purchases, for sure).

Exactly! So many equipment that I am happy with, but I have not written any reviews (not counting). And good online stores are also overlooked.

Peace be with you bakers!
but I still like refrigerators with two compressors more

can anyone still advise what to choose? Electrolux or Liebherr.

I subscribe to the question. Freezer Liebherr works flawlessly. But the refrigerator is even more expensive, somehow scary after negative reviews (

Arkady, I don't know. I have little specific information about Electrolux refrigerators.
The most ancient Liebherr of my friend. He bought it 10 years ago in an i-store, and still works without any comments. Other friends of mine had earlier models, but I did not observe any faults. I have a fridge and freezer right next to me.
I once read about the psychology of reviews. Of course, the overwhelming majority write those who are dissatisfied. Those who are happy with everything - snore calmly. And even more, it is the buyers of high-level equipment that are more dissatisfied than the buyers of lower price categories. It's simple, buying an expensive product, we expect some miracle from it. And when we buy inexpensive equipment, in our hearts we are already ready to forgive it for some flaws and shortcomings in advance. Psychology.Nord began to work poorly, for example, but what did I want from him? I'm going to call Uncle Styopa for repairs. And all is silence.

There is no service for Liebcher in Russia, it will die, take it either to Moscow or to the trash heap. Maybe the company once did not have bad chills, now everything is not repairable, disposable Friends still remember with a shudder 🔗 🔗 They are better at cranes

[Arkady _ru]

Arkady _ru, Two Electrolux in the family, one budgetary of the Aleksandrovsky plant, the other a native Swede, one and the other of the two compressor stations work, with a bang, the build quality is different, of course, the filling is different ...

[sazalexter]

sazalexter, you can't find a Swede, only Hungary. Electrolux EN 4000 AOX is now in the choice (well, Liebher so far), the wife does not want white. She doesn’t want a noufrost, but I don’t see any drawbacks. This is the noufrost of the boshes, the internal volume is consumed, the electroluxes with the Liebherr do not. Therefore, Bosha with noufrost did not consider buying it. Generally 30t. R. it is necessary to meet and not more.
Added to them:
Whirlpool WBE 3623 A + NFWF Poland
Gorenje ONE RK 61 W2 Serbia
LG GW-B 489 EEQW Poland
Samsung RL 50 RRCSW South Korea

Electrolux, AEG, Zanussi- this is the technique of one concern, a higher AEG. Good quality equipment. I had 2 washing machines. One pro worked for over 15 years and broke down. I bought the Miele brand with dryer. After washing my husband's sweater on the wool program, I realized that I no longer use this program. She threw out the sweater. Now I wash the wool on the silk program ... but Electrolux does not have this.
I would have looked at the European assembly of the Electrolux. A very worthy technique. I just need a higher class. And now, choosing between AEG and Simens, I tend to lean more towards Simens - there is more zero volume.
And Liebcher? Well I do not know. The refrigerator, made in Germany, only worked for 10 years. This is not a time limit for him. At the dacha, a handle has fallen off by a 75-degree refrigerator with an ice maker, plastic is crumbling at the boxes in zero and in the freezer. Still very thundering. I also feel that he has not long left ..
The only plus for Liebherr is that they change or return money if the refrigerator has worked for less than 10 years and in the presence of a repairman's opinion that it is not repairable.

There is no service for Liebcher in Russia, it will die, take it either to Moscow or to the trash heap. Maybe the company once did not have bad chills, now everything is not repairable, disposable cranes they get better

Where does this ridiculous information come from? Why write if you don't know. I say it again, about 5-7 years ago, when Liebherr just started to enter the market normally, there were really misunderstandings with the service. Now in the slightest city of Russia there are Liebherr service centers. Look at the website.
Where does the information come from that they are not repairable? From crazy forums, where people themselves do not know what they write?
What do cranes have to do with it? Gazprom is investing huge amounts of money in the Zenith football club. So what, they are driving large-diameter steel pipes across the field? This is a bourgeois economy. There are many such examples. Refrigerators are not developed by crane operators ... These are two independent "branches" of different products with the same funding.

The only plus for Liebherr is that they change or return money if the refrigerator has worked for less than 10 years and in the presence of a repairman's opinion that it is not repairable.

And this PLUS does not overshadow much?
I personally have not come across stacks myself, but when choosing a refrigerator I read about it. Other firms would follow an example.

The only plus for Liebherr is that they change or return money if the refrigerator has worked for less than 10 years and in the presence of a repairman's opinion that it is not repairable.

Change and return only in Germany in Russia with a scandal

I just talked to the manager of the refrigerator ru, although I myself have traded and can only be trusted when he is not specifically burdened with sales of a certain model (this happens), which you will never know about. T.That is, you can never trust them)). But, at least, I learned that the Russian assembly is different. This is aggregate, that is, everything comes from abroad and after assembly it can also go there for sale, and assemblies from parts containing some percentage of our production in the vast expanses. We produce for Bosch, Samsung, lg. Electrolux, Liebher and Siemens (although this is the same Bosch) are assembled from foreign components. I advised Siemens or Liebcher, because, according to him, the electrolux has only a washing machine and has no complaints. For the price, Siemens is more interesting, but Liebcher is quieter and more convenient to use. Card discounts for super offers do not apply to them.
The leading brands of Europe do not install inverter motors, as well as direct drive to the washer. The reason is conservatism. These are Asian developments, and are introduced coaxially there in the first place.

Of course, for this you need to spend a lot of effort, time and health and have a certain character

Where did you get this data? Liebherr an unreliable disposable technique? This is clearly anti-advertising.

I myself, by occupation, have been working and repairing refrigeration units for a year.

Even a child already knows that 600 gas is not compatible with aluminum, sooner or later it will leave. He has been parenting since 600. Everyone knows, even Liebcher himself. However, it is cheaper to make a heat exchanger out of thin aluminum, foam it (so that a picky buyer does not see all this disgrace) and sell it at a higher price. And then change it within 10 years. It runs in Europe, but not here. Here you will have to gnaw out the act of troubleshooting in the service with your teeth.
Don't believe me? -> yandex-> ​​Freon leak in the foamed part. And it looks like candy, the current filling is from g ... on.
For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that other manufacturers began to introduce such crap after the lib-dick. The road is now copper, and the competition is great. So I recommend everyone to watch, find out, feel when buying. The time when reliable refrigerators were produced, not the same Liebherr, ended, copper ran out.
I generally keep quiet about the compressors, only China. Even the Japanese began to sin with this, to put their own expensive. Danfos-sekop units put on and are proud of afterwards.
And on "whose assembly" should be the last thing to look at.

Even a child already knows that 600 gas is not compatible with aluminum, sooner or later it will leave. He has been codifying since 600.

Maybe this will be a discovery for you, but not everyone knows about it! For me personally, half of what you have written here is just a collection of words. And what do you propose to watch-find-feel? What's inside the refrigerator? Forgive me, but apart from the appearance and the shelves inside, I can’t see or touch anything. And the filling from g ... on, forgive me, for example, I cannot determine by eye. Therefore, I am going here to listen to the advice of real users, and not theoretical physicists who really cannot help me personally. And here is the word

... Danphos Sekop

sorry, I'm not familiar at all. Maybe I'm, of course, the only one here so dark, well, that's what it is

and not theoretical physicists, who really cannot help me personally.

Just consider that I did not write to you.
Danfoss / Secop compressor brand.

Peace be with you bakers!

Rick-- - I'm sorry, but I can't see or feel anything except the appearance and the shelves inside.

I didn’t look closely at Liebcher
but let's say in my refrigerator the compressor is visible and can be seen that copper tubes are suitable for them

and then do not hesitate to press on sellers \ if you see that he is a sucker, call someone else \ ask questions \ of course you need to prepare yourself \ you are not buying a fickle for 3 kopecks, but rather an expensive thing

I've recently been in technosil and passed by the refrigerators
drew attention because a large poster hung on the facade
like in the refrigerator \ our some kind \ installed an Italian compressor and Czech shelves

and there was some kind of import \ germany \ on which the infa hung in large letters - lope he
electricity eats the power of freezing well and other crap
and smaller from the bottom
the manufacturer, at his discretion and without additional notifications, can change the configuration, appearance, country of production and technical characteristics of the model

so don't hesitate to ask

The fact of the matter is that there is no trust in our sellers! One "sucker" will not connect two words, I will call the other, and he will hang me on my ears with a confident look. Unfortunately, the competence of our vendors is poor. I was already convinced of this more than once. And most of our housewives understand very little about compressor tubes. Therefore, we are going here to learn practical experience, not the refrigerator device.

Even a child already knows that 600 gas is not compatible with aluminum, sooner or later it will leave. He has been codifying since 600. Everyone knows, even Liebcher himself. However, it is cheaper to make a heat exchanger out of thin aluminum, foam it (so that a picky buyer does not see all this disgrace) and sell it at a higher price. And then change it within 10 years.

Dr. NO, do not, after reading various sources on and-no and writing a confusion made up of scraps, pretend to be a sage. This is according to the satirist Zadornov, who laughs at the doctors who treat in no way. You know the level of children very poorly and you are obviously with excessive requirements and force to treat ordinary forum visitors who need simple advice without cleverness. Visit specialized forums for such technical details - there is a place for long discussions on technical details.
Remember the anecdote about business in Russian: buy vodka, hand over bottles and use the money to buy vodka again ...
Judging by your statements, the stupid Germans, knowing the trick, do this: They save on copper, a kilogram of which is $ 5 cheaper than aluminum (about 170 rubles) and then exchange the equipment (which costs from 30,000-50,000 -... thousand) for a new one. .. Here is an example of German disinterestedness and foolishness ... And I always thought that Germans are calculating people. Yes, they would have gone down the drain with your business logic like that!
This is how I imagine a Mercedes engineer, for example, who, saving 170 rubles, replaces car parts: steel - with plastic or cardboard ... And then he just changes the cars for new ones ... From nothing to do, probably

Dr.NO, ... by writing a confusion made up of scraps, pretend to be a sage. This is according to the satirist Zadornov, to ...
Remember the anecdote ....
Judging by your statements, stupid Germans ...

You're passionate, Paramosha!
(c) M. Ulyanov as gene. Charnot, film "Running"

The leading brands of Europe do not install inverter motors, as well as direct drive to the washer. The reason is conservatism.

The manager is mistaken - they put inverter motors, the same Liebherr.

clearly with excessive requirements and force, treat ordinary forum visitors

Yes, I seem to have written to you, you worked as a refrigerator. Have you ever installed aluminum? No? That's the same. Or about a refrigerator is it so for a catchphrase? Or was the instrument supplied when installing the kondeev? There is nothing shameful here, everyone started somewhere.

pretend to be a sage.

I do not hide the fact that for 16 years I have been working as a chief engineer in a company that sells and repairs German and Italian industrial confectionery and bakery equipment, including refrigerators and refrigeration tunnels.

Visit specialized forums for such technical details - there is a place for lengthy discussions on technical details.

I agree, it's been there for a long time. You asked what is disposable

They save on copper, a kilogram of which is $ 5 cheaper than aluminum (about 170 rubles) and then exchange the equipment (which costs from 30,000-50,000 -... thousand) for a new one ... Here is an example of German disinterestedness and foolishness ...

This is what I wanted to say, you will not believe it, but it is also found in industrial equipment. The percentage of scrap, operating time, costs, etc. is estimated. Everything is taken into account.Even when you are going to hypothetically buy the next refrigerator.

Yes, they would have gone down the drain with your business logic like that!

Probably I will tell you a secret, but they would rather fly into the chimney if their refrigerators cost 2-3 times more, but to the question "Why?" they would explain to all housewives what thick copper pipes they have, though they are not visible under the foam. Understand any modern production is a compromise between quality and price. Trust me, I am doing this. You come to the manufacturer and say: "Your products are more expensive than those of your competitors." He: "These parts are made of stainless steel for me, they are made of aluminum, but I can do it too, the warranty period will work." That's the whole conversation.

This is how I imagine a Mercedes engineer, for example, who, saving 170 rubles, replaces machine parts: steel - with plastic or cardboard ...

Yes, this is so unfortunately (exaggerated of course), just look at modern cars. A certain exchange of the quality of the suspension, engine, transmission for the external design and interior decoration.
They even started to forget the myths about the quality of Japanese goods of the 70-90s when they had "taxes on quality". The better you produce the goods, the less you pay.
Now, the main thing is to make beautifully what the user sees, and what would work out the guarantee. What's inside is not important. After all, besides the appearance, the user will not be able to evaluate anything, otherwise he will have to study the device of the refrigerator and become at least at least a theoretical physicist.

Forgive me, but apart from the appearance and the shelves inside, I can’t see or touch anything.

I propose to stop at this. If you have any thoughts on this, write in a personal. Otherwise, housewives will go crazy.
And my relative (wife's sister) a year ago with this defect changed my Liebherr. One Moscow service did not want to issue a non-repairable certificate for a month. Until I drove up with her, they hung noodles on the girl's ears. Naturally, I immediately bought a new refrigerator, what a normal month will live without a refrigerator.
Yours faithfully,

[igorechek]

igorechekAnd, of course, I also have children. They are growing smarter than us.

Here, I read the last pages and in general now I don’t know which refrigerator to want (

I wanted to take the Liebherr CUP 2711 two-compartment refrigerator, now the price for them is pretty.
Common data:
Dimensions:
height (cm): 160
width (cm): 55
depth (cm): 62.8

Total volume / Useful volume:
Refrigerator (L): 258/253
Refrigerating chamber (l): 203/199
Freezer (l): 55/54

Control type: mechanical
Energy class: A +
Climatic class: SN-ST (from + 10 ° С to + 38 ° С)
Number of compressors: 1
Annual energy consumption: 239 kWh

Dear experts, which brand of refrigerator should you pay attention to?
We need a small refrigerator for 1 person.

Tell me, pliz!

sell at a higher price. And then change it within 10 years.

The best option for salespeople who are concerned about the image. Calculate the guaranteed service life (non-sounded) up to 15 years and change if it fails within 10.
Refrigerators are taken for many years. At least my current one is about 20, and at my father's dacha, it’s 47 years old, went to the refrigerator and works. Replaced with an analogue thermal sensor, since relatives no longer do. I will repair mine in the end, but I will buy another one simply because I have ceased to arrange it with capacity and layout (Atlant, in it the German compressor stands and works very quietly). Except for the grandchildren, there will be no one else, we will go home with the children. Well, for how many years do I need a refrigerator? That's right, 40-50. In my opinion, people change them a couple of times in a lifetime.
I want one! Are they in production now? If I go shopping, can I see any decent copper loop manufacturer?

Last year I took Atlant for a summer residence (with an upper freezer) - it is made (for now?) On copper.
I have three more Atlantes in two houses 1 - 1993, 2 - freezer / refrigerator - 1996, 3 - refrigerator with bottom freezer - 2006. This is my wife, a Belarusian nationalist. Since his student days in Russia, but besides Minsk, he does not recognize any others.
The oldest of the available workers - at Biryusa's dacha, 1971 (I changed the relay), but it is already rather cold, it is necessary to either replenish or throw out freon.
Of all that were - only Nord went into unconscious, 1976 release after 24 years of work

Siemens kg39fpy 23r has been working for me for a week. Outwardly high quality, beautiful with a larger refrigerator and zero compartment than Liebherr. Unambiguously, Liebherr's freezer compartment is 30 percent more, although the overall dimensions are the same. Convenient zero chamber, it is divided into three compartments, three backlights, including zero. While I like it, but reliability, only time will determine. According to the external sign - the shelves and drawers are better and stronger than in Liebcher, and the stainless steel coating in the varnish does not leave a finger. So far so good. But the freezer is small !!!

Dr.NO. So we will go into the wilds. At you (and not only), forum visitors are clearly asking - which refrigerator to buy? So advise, if you understand so well and say that Liebherr sucks. Please advise the manufacturer and model! I understand that other visitors are praising the old domestically produced models. From my father, I myself had a Yuryuzan refrigerator of the 60th year at my dacha. But people need to buy a NEW refrigerator. Suggest your choice - which one? And that's all. A common man in the street will not look out for specifics.
And now about your statements. I did indeed work for a short time repairing refrigeration equipment due to our constant turbulence. And he climbed himself, and did not give instructions, sitting in the office.
About your seniority and place of work. Do not be offended, but I have seen in my lifetime many cooks who, having worked for decades in one place, could not cook anything except learned dishes. Seniority is not an indicator.
And I met with the chief engineers many times and in different specialties. You are used to working with papers, contracts, "global" issues. Many of you have forgotten, and some have never been able to work with your hands at all and, which I was surprised at first, do not know elementary trifles. It doesn’t matter, it’s the specifics of the work - paperwork, guidance, instructions ... And some came in general by pull or as "effective managers", not understanding the essence of the issues at all. This is now quite common. Let me give you an anecdotal example - a couple of years ago I was asked to make a light in an apartment for a newly minted young electronics engineer. Believe it or not - the person did not know - for a light bulb to burn, wires must be connected to it ... This is such a higher education ...
I am not saying that Liebherr is the most reliable technique, but I am saying that it is no worse than Siemens, Neff, Panasonic, etc. I only stood up for it. The fact that there are reviews about breakdowns is not surprising. Let's estimate. Refrigerator is an essential device. Let them be 50 million units across the country. If Liebherr accounts for at least 1%, then this is already 500 thousand. And if at least 1% of them breaks, then there will be 5,000 dissatisfied! How do you want? The number of sales is growing - so is the number of dissatisfied people. Considering that satisfied people are often silent, and dissatisfied screams almost always - an illusion of unreliability is created. Neither you nor I have real statistics on the failure of refrigerators.
Let me give you an example. Cars in Germany are changed every 3-4 years. Judging by your logic, these cars should "roll in" like dandelions exactly after this period. Why build reliable cars? Traveled for 3-4 years and to the dump ...
Once again, I say, you do not have statistics on the failure of Liebherr refrigerators, etc. And the number of repairs only speaks about an increase in the sales of this company.
Advise people another SPECIFIC model, and do not blame that all around g ... about. And I'll go read other topics ...

that Liebherr sucks

I'm not saying that the Liebherr sucks, I want to say that the Liebherr in the lower price category should not be bought. Normal liebchers cost from 40 tr. As it was before (about 1t. Euro) before it got into this price segment.

Many of you have forgotten, and some never knew how to work with your hands.

It's not about me. I definitely go to factories 2-3 times a week. And I install ovens with the guys, and start industrial lines. The papers piss me off.
And about what to advise. I will not be original, I will advise what the service / refrigerators advise - Westfrost, preferably Danish assembly. Yes - conservatively, yes - no newfangled bells and whistles, yes - nothing has been changed in 15 years, but it is reliable and maintainable.

Normal liebchers cost from 40 tr.

Please tell me like this
🔗
then you can buy without fear of breaking.
Although there are bad reviews for him on the internet (

I'm not saying that the Liebherr sucks, I want to say that the Liebherr in the lower price category should not be bought. Normal liebchers cost from 40 tr. As it was before (about 1t. Euro) before it got into this price segment. It's not about me. I definitely go to factories 2-3 times a week. And I install ovens with the guys, and start industrial lines. The papers piss me off.
And about what to advise. I will not be original, I will advise what the service / refrigerators advise - Westfrost, preferably Danish assembly. Yes - conservatively, yes - no newfangled bells and whistles, yes - nothing has been changed in 15 years, but it is reliable and maintainable.

So I have the same opinion. And I am glad that there are people in the leading category who work not only with papers. I say without irony, because I myself have a higher education, but due to some specifics, I worked in any position and went through different jobs. Unfortunately, the training of graduates does not shine, they also lack the excitement of knowledge, and people of age often come without knowledge and experience, just by acquaintance. Once again, I do not mean you.
Good imported equipment, by definition, cannot be cheap. I also agree that unnecessary bells and whistles in the technique do not add reliability, and are often just a discredited marketing step (bait). And models of any equipment that have been produced unchanged for years better than untested new products.
And with the "Belarusian" refrigerators, not everything is so simple. I have relatives and friends living in Belarus, every year I go to visit. Many people have Belarusian-made equipment, and the same can be enough "jambs". Just buying "our" equipment, we are ready in advance for some "inconvenience" or modifications, and buying expensive imported equipment, we quite rightly want complete satisfaction.

[Dr.NO]

It was hard to buy a refrigerator. Not in terms of money, but in terms of choice and conflicts with his wife. I choose everything and the first thing I pay attention to is potential reliability. Wife, so that as little as possible distracted by the courting and appearance of the bather. Moreover, she judges everything by hearsay, there are enough times heard (for example, from a niece) opinions and it is very difficult to convince her. All this carousel always ends with the fact that we do not talk for about 15 minutes (of course, having quarreled beforehand, but of course), but in the end I convince her and still buy what I chose. At the finish line, she always says, well, why didn't you immediately explain everything to me calmly? Always like this. I look forward to old age anxiously.
So, it was decided to allocate 45t of money. r., but, having climbed the sites, after reading the reviews, I was surprised to find that small jambs with paint erasure, plastic cladding falling off, cracked boxes and shelves during operation are also found in this price tag, which is unacceptable to me simply. And, frankly, I was not very sure of the need to buy an expensive wither. I'm not a high flight, I don't need to look after my image. That would be more practical for me. Let the shelf blurt out when I pull it out or the vegetable drawer rumble not on the rubber track.I will survive.
I never found the ideal one. The refrigerator compartment looked from 250 and above, the freezer was 100 and above. And if there is enough refrigeration for this, then freezers, taking into account seasonal packing in Karelia, Voronezh region. and in the country there are just very few. That is why I decided to take an inexpensive and as decent as possible, and in the appendage a freezer in the region of 100 liters. Talked to Dr.NO, to whom I am very grateful for advice, consultation and competent opinion. The choice fell on the two-compressor Bosch KGS 39 XL 20 R and Liebherr GPesf 1476. At a price of 21t + 19t.
The hardest part was convincing my wife that noufrost was not needed. I think so. All the same, you need to wash the refrigerator, but the uncle has almost the same Bosch (KGS39Z45), bought in 2011 and only last week it was decided to wash and defrost it. In my opinion, the boom and general enthusiasm for this has passed a long time ago.
Instead of Bosch, he was ready to take Electrolux EN 4011 AOX, but since his freezer still does not reach the stocked quantity, Bosch bought it. And I was not sure about the Electrolux compressor, but Bosch had 100% secapo * 2. Liebcher's freezer is out of business yet.
In the very near future (February) buying a TV, but it's easy with it. Then it's time to replace the Samsung washing machine, which went 15g, but it works. Sometimes it suddenly starts to wring out right away, however, forgetting to wash. I call it a super fast wash)). Samsung has shown itself to be a fine fellow, but I'm still considering the next electrolux. Depth 55cm maximum, because it moves from the kitchen to the bathroom. I don’t want to have a vertical - only frontal. Here, maybe again Dr.NO what will he advise?
By the spring I will take a dishwasher. They have a complete zero, but the kitchen is 10m and it seems like you can take 60cm, although there are three of us and 45cm is enough. I think to take Bosch. I also need advice.
The kitchen and stove will be the last ones by mid-late spring. I will gladly listen to advice (except for the kitchen, of course). There will be no build-in.

There will be no building

Albeit off-topic, but hey, curious why not embedding?

Albeit off-topic, but hey, curious why not embedding?

And I wonder why not noufrost? I really like the noufrost and the built-in! In the kitchen I am the boss for days, months and years. And I myself choose the technique that I need and like, and my husband supports me in many ways.
I would be very offended if he made the decision to upgrade kitchen appliances on his own, without listening to my opinion, that is, not respecting my opinion and, it turns out, me too.

Many people like noufrost, but it eats up the volume of the refrigerator and is not as good as it is sung about it in songs. You will have to wash the refrigerator anyway, that is, defrost it. I don't see much sense in it.
To be honest, they didn’t consider the integration with my wife, because we didn’t plan to buy everything at the same time. I don’t know the limits that can be met according to the budget. How much together with the technique?
Molding 3.6m, straight (there is a stove and a dishwasher in it) + a freestanding cabinet (glass, probably) 60cm wide.
Cooking has to be done by those who are not busy, since we have such work schedules. I am always ready to listen to an opinion and listen to it, but this does not oblige me to make decisions on it. The kitchen is not one of our favorite habitats, to be honest, but we would like it to be functional and decent-looking without claims to luxury. Although what a luxury, for example, 200t. p on the strength of everything together with the technique?

If you plan to change all the equipment, then the installation is better. If only because there will be no joints between the appliances and the countertop, where all kinds of crumbs and dirt are always stuffed. And the quality of the installation will be better. I can compare - with a short period of time, a freestanding stove with glass ceramics and an installation (in different apartments) were purchased. The building is still as good as new. And a separate plate has a body, with a powder coating - all this paint is already peeling off. The view is still tolerable, but far from ideal, although functionally the stove works fine.Thermal insulation and sound insulation at the building is much more reliable. The same is with the PMM. The old kitchen was renovated in the summer. When all the dirt was taken out, it was possible to load it with a shovel, because everything gets into the joints, and you can't clean it up properly. The choice, of course, is up to you, but do not rush to give up the option of built-in technology.

I will not rush, I will slow down after washing and TV. You need to figure out how much to at least count on. It is more difficult and longer than buying refrigerators.

Also off topic, but I'll ask Why defrost the noufrost refrigerator in order to wash it? Mine is already 20 years old and I just wipe the walls of the freezer and that's it, there is nothing on them. I also take out the shelves one by one and mine. A freestanding freezer is not my noufrost, so there are no problems either. Now the coating is such that everything that has grown very quickly falls off and is removed during defrosting.

[Arkady _ru]

Arkady _ru, On TV I'll tell you what I know, only the branch needs to be found ... where to post

I just wipe the walls of the freezer and that's it, there is nothing on them. I also take out the shelves one by one and mine.

So I do the same thing ...

[sazalexter]

I have not washed it even once. In Atlanta, an iceberg freezes inlet, even thaw every month. Previously, while the thermostat was working, it had to be done less often, but still every six months. Therefore, washing was combined with defrosting.
sazalexter, thanks, I have no problems with choosing a TV. If there is no branch, you can create it, it may well be useful to someone.