Liquid yeast based on fruits, vegetables, herbs, tea ...

Something seems to me that we need to start a separate topic, with formulas and scientific calculations ...

[paramed1]

paramed1,

How does the sourness come from? From brine.))) More precisely, from lactic acid, which is produced by lactic acid bacteria that have multiplied in brine (in cabbage, lactic acid fermentation). Accordingly, with brine, we add them to our solution (well, where we grow yeast).

But, in theory, even during normal fermentation, acidity can appear if bacteria that produce acetic acid proliferate there ...

[Nata]

Nata, so it's about the pickle. And I'm talking about the reaction of alcoholic fermentation. Acid is not formed there. And in cabbage yeast, if they nevertheless multiplied, there should be no acid either. They will eat it. Of course, if the reaction went through to the end, and no free acid remained. There will be no acid in the dough.

[Nata]

Nata, so it's about the pickle. And I'm talking about the reaction of alcoholic fermentation. Acid is not formed there. And in cabbage yeast, if they nevertheless multiplied, there should be no acid either. They will eat it. Of course, if the reaction went through to the end, and no free acid remained. There will be no acid in the dough.

so the meaning of dialogue is a recipe. in the recipe instead of liquid - brine. what can you get carried away with?

Olya, everything is fine! I had a similar case with raspberry yeast (if you look at my raspberry yeast, you will see). Also sediment at the bottom and a cloudy liquid.

My water is completely transparent, if you don't shake it

Why should there be sourness? Where from? The result of the alcoholic fermentation reaction is carbon dioxide and ethanol. No acid is formed. In contrast to lactic acid fermentation, which occurs during the manufacture of lactic acid products.

And I have a distinctly sour water in the can. It's already vinegar, right? It smells like alcohol and intoxicated (I sipped).

it was the same with my Ivan-tea, the bubbles disappeared, everything fell to the bottom, there was a sediment, I intuitively decided that it was time to put the pre-enzyme,
....
In my opinion, the diagnosis of crookedness can be made safely

Thank you dear!

Luda, a hole in the center - and where did this come from in the middle of the loaf? .. I didn't dig it on purpose, honestly!
And the formulas of organic chemistry are terrible, long. And I can't write them on a tablet. And I haven't done this on a computer for a hundred years ... No, I can copy it from the Internet. And is it necessary? Just imagine a picture - a person is standing in the kitchen, going to cook something, and is checked against a printout on several pages, where in detail, with drawings and formulas for 2 lines each, the cooking processes are described: oxidation when cutting vegetables, the transition of a substance from one form to another when heated, redox reactions when salting and adding spices ... I would be asked to rest in a sanatorium, for example, near Minsk, just yesterday they showed it, that's for sure.
And that's it, I'm leaving you, to sign up for a consultation with a dentist.

[Ira]

Iraif you have good liquid yeast on cabbage brine - great, use it. I'm trying to warn you that next time it might not work, maybe vinegar, the smell of acetone. Or it will work again. I can be responsible for the result only when I see what is being put into the jar and what is going on there. And at a distance of 700 km I can't. I'm just writing a theory, nothing else. And when in a jar of cleaning from fruits and sugar, vinegar can also turn out. Alas ... We are not in an industrial workshop, where all technological conditions are exactly observed.

[Nata]

Nata, here, acetic acid - so soon there will be vinegar! Also in business, your own, not a store. This went acetic fermentation.In the production of yeast, it is alcoholic.
And about lactic acid bacteria in rye sourdough - so in sourdough. this is no longer the stage of propagation of the culture of wild yeasts. There are already proteins and fats. Nobody grows wild yeast on whey, but in the pre-enzyme step please add as much as you like. It will work out.

Well, girls, Luda, Veronica! Take my daily night in HP on the railway:

Out of 400 grams of flour, with seeds, I almost hit the lid.

Lina, great! What a fine fellow you baked! Lush! I was ahead of me, I also want to put it on for the night, but since I reduced the consumption of flour, bread for another two days. Please tell me, how much delay did you put on? Is it just wheat? And the seeds are not visible at all ... And on what yeast? I poured the bananas into the apple ones - there are no bananas, and I don't want to buy, we are losing weight.

[Matilda_81]

As already announced, today is attempt # 3. I'll drive home and try to deliver.

Matilda_81, Gulechka, good luck to you!

My water is completely transparent, if not shaken. And I have a distinctly sour water in the can. It's already vinegar, right? It smells like alcohol and intoxicated (I sipped).

Olga VB, Olya, and I also had raspberry yeast. If it smells like alcohol, beer, then there is no vinegar. It's okay, start the pre-enzyme. It is time.

[Veronicek]

a hole in the center - and where did this come from in the middle of the loaf? .. I didn’t dig it on purpose, honestly!

Veronicek, I believe .. I didn’t pick, but I have how many of them. Repeat the banana loaf again. After all, I got holes once. Why didn't it work out later? True, on a banana, I no longer baked anything except cakes. Tomorrow I'll put the pre-enzyme on, and the day after tomorrow I'll bake it. Maybe it will work again? Especially now I'll get the yeast, let it roam, otherwise I have it almost new.

And the formulas of organic chemistry are terrible, long. And I can't write them on a tablet. And I haven't done this on a computer for a hundred years ... No, I can copy it from the Internet. And is it necessary?

I think that it is not necessary ... Otherwise we will scare everyone away and confuse them even more!

Well, girls, Luda, Veronica! Take my daily night in HP on the railway:

Linochka, awesome bread! Well done ! I am also interested in the question, like Veronica:

how much delay did you put on? Is it just wheat?

And that's it, I'm leaving you

Veronica, don't scare us! We're nowhere without you ...
By the way, today j @ ne - Zhenya reported in the topic Whole Wheat Bread with Liquid Banana Yeast... She made great bread. It also burned in HP. Follow the link and take a look.

how much delay did you put on?

I put in a two-stage starter culture - 65g ZhD + 65g flour 1s for 6 hours, 65g ZhD + 65g premium flour + sugar 1 tsp. + sour cream 1 tbsp. l. for 7 hours. She tried to escape from me. I added everything (except for salt and oil), mixed it on "dumplings" (put salt and butter on the side) and set "Basic" with a delay of 4 hours.

Is it just wheat?

flour 1s 65g, premium flour 335g.
Seeds about 2 tbsp. l.

And what is yeast?

Yeast banana + raspberries, fed raspberries + sugar for 12 hours.

[paramed1]

paramed1,

We are about a specific person and a specific situation. Not about the theory of alcoholic fermentation, which is already clear. She poured ready-made cabbage brine into the container. Ready. Already with the whole set of bacteria that multiplied there.

And since I finally don’t understand who is talking about what, I tie it up with this question.

[Nata]

Since I finally do not understand who is talking about what, I tie it up.

Nata,

I put a two-stage starter culture - 65g ZhD + 65g flour 1s for 6 hours, 65g ZhD + 65g flour + sugar 1 tsp. + sour cream 1 tbsp. l. for 7 hours. She tried to escape from me. I added everything (except for salt and oil), mixed it on "dumplings" (put salt and butter on the side) and set "Basic" with a delay of 4 hours. flour 1s 65g, premium flour 335g.
Seeds about 2 tbsp. l. Yeast banana + raspberries, fed raspberries + sugar for 12 hours.

Linochka, thank you, everything is clear!

Lina, I understand.Boom to do on deferral.

Boom to do on deferral.

Now I would like to deal with the postponement.

[Light]

Light, Lina wrote - 4 hours grace period. This is for Panasonic, as I understand it.

[Light]

Now I would like to deal with the postponement.

Light, what HP do you have? Is there a timer?

Svetyashka, what HP do you have? Is there a timer?

I have Zelmer. There is a delay. I did not understand how to use it. The menu is in English, and I am German by education. Today on a grater I rubbed the cake that was not obtained on the railway. I want to use this crumb in baked goods. I never did this, but it's a pity to throw away the tasty treat.

[Light]

The menu is in English, and I am German by education

Light, I also learned German, but I read Chinese and Japanese with a translator on Yandex. Hammer the word into the translator. They'll give you a translation right away. Everything is simple there with a delay - if it takes you, for example, 4 hours for bread, then if you need to make a delay of 5 hours, then you make the total time for bread - 9 hours. Just press the timer button until you see the number 9-00 on the display.

[lappl1,]

Everything is simple there with a delay - if it takes you, for example, 4 hours for bread, then if you need to make a delay of 5 hours, then you make the total time for bread - 9 hours. Just press the timer button until you see the number 9-00 on the display.

lappl1, Thank you. I didn’t know that the total time was being displayed, and not just the deferral. I'll try.

[Light]

Light, try it! HP is a smart machine, it will do everything by itself!

[paramed1]

paramed1, Veronica, thanks for the educational program on organic chemistry!
Tell me please, what does the smell of acetone mean? Appeared on my starter cultures a couple of times when I ran them. Indeed, she immediately threw it out, because at the same time they looked absolutely lifeless. And recently in the morning I put it on soybeans, with bifidobacteria and enterococci, so it bubbled even in the refrigerator, in the evening I opened it, and it already smells a little acetone ...

[An4utka]

An4utka, this indicates a violation of the mechanism of the fermentation reaction. It happens rarely, acetone is a by-product. I don’t remember the reaction, something had to do with oxidation, sugars and the presence of foreign bacteria. But you cannot use such garbage. Just pour it out. Why do you add enterococci? It's lactobacillus, isn't it? And bifidobacteria? What does it do? I’m never a baker, but a pharmacist ... Or is it not bread leaven?

[paramed1]

paramed1, Veronica, my bacteria got into the sourdough with whey - it was a pity to pour it out, I decided to feed her, not water. I mentioned this, because the activity of the leaven in the refrigerator is probably connected with this. You write that you only pour out such a leaven. Is it harmful due to foreign bacteria, or some harmful substances are formed? It is interesting, because I used that leaven for the intended purpose of Sotchl that it could not go bad in the refrigerator during the day.

[lappl1]

Good morning everyone!

Svetiashka, try it! HP is a smart machine, it will do everything by itself!

lappl1, yes, I was in it and baked cake on the railway, it did not work out. And here the girls write with a delay.

[An4utka]

An4utka, if any sourdough smells of acetone, then it is better to pour it out. Acetone is poisonous. If it just smells like vinegar, it's okay for your health.

[paramed1]

paramed1, Veronica, thanks, I will take into account for the future

Report.
Made a pre-enzyme last night.
In 12 hours it has doubled.
Over the next 5 hours (i.e. already 17 hours) nothing else happened, neither up nor down.
Is this rise enough and is it possible to put dough on this PF or start everything from scratch (yeast, pre-enzyme, etc.)?

a day later, a little foam appeared on the bananas, should I already breathe? or let it stand still?

[An-net]

An-net, give. Just chat before opening the lid.

[Olga VB]

Olga VB, Ol, the same parsley. She did not dare to put the bread, she was afraid that she would not rise. She baked pancakes with this pre-enzyme.

Over the next 5 hours (that is, already 17 hours), nothing else happened, neither up nor down.

That is why I use a two-stage scheme - half for 6-8 hours, then the other half with sugar and sour cream for another 6-8 hours. At first I did it by analogy with domestic developments in liquid yeast, then I realized that the scheme works and I always do it.

Linochka, I didn't understand.
That is, I put PF (how much of what?), I hold it for 6-8 hours, and then what? Add sugar and sour cream to this (how much?) And wait another 6-8 hours, or add PF + sugar + sour cream separately, and then mix the first and second?
And can whey be used instead of sour cream?
I took a chance and started the dough on the PF, which I got in 17 hours.
The dough turned out to be thinner than on the old dough or sourdough with the same moisture content. I made a conclusion for myself that the recalculation of the recipe 1: 1 does not work - it is necessary to take 5-8-10% less liquid when switching to railway.
Now I will bring this experiment to the end, then I will report back.

[Olga]

In 12 hours it has doubled.
Over the next 5 hours (that is, already 17 hours), nothing else happened, neither up nor down.

Olga, my pre-enzyme was also inactive. But after 16 hours I put the dough and baked 2 breads and one portion of cakes.
I looked at the pre-enzyme, and there were bubbles on the surface and I decided to knead the dough. Make up your mind. All will be

[Olga]

OlgaNamely, mix 1 / 2ZD + 1/2 flour from what was calculated, after 8 hours add another 1/2 railway + 1/2 flour + sugar + sour cream there and leave for another 6-8 hours. Then rushing. Whey is better in the dough, because it contains live streptococci that can multiply at 28-30 * C, but there are sour cream. In short, in 16-18 hours we get an active starter culture. And yes, the liquid in the dough needs to be reduced by about 7-10%, then everything is fine. Good luck!

[Olga VB]

Made a pre-enzyme last night. In 12 hours it has doubled. Over the next 5 hours (that is, already 17 hours), nothing else happened, neither up nor down. Is this rise enough and is it possible to put dough on this PF or start everything from scratch (yeast, pre-enzyme, etc.)?

Olga VB, you can already put the dough! But try to do as Lina advises. If your yeast is not very strong, then this technique will activate them very much! Now, if you now put the dough according to my scenario, then you will have to bake at night. And if you do as Lina advises, then in the morning.

I made a conclusion for myself that the recalculation of the recipe 1: 1 does not work - it is necessary to take 5-8-10% less liquid when switching to railway.

Olga, the flour is different for everyone, so it may well be.

[Sonadora]

She did not dare to put the bread, she was afraid that she would not rise. She baked pancakes with this pre-enzyme.

Sonadora, in vain ... I also have bread, where the pre-enzyme increased by 2 times. And the bread turned out good.

And I recently put strawberry liquid starter culture

[Albina]

Albina, smart girl! I dance with you!

[about]

The dough didn't even budge in 4 hours ...
Let him stand for another 3 hours and look at him. I will always have time to throw it away. The only pity is that there will be no bread in the morning.
And now it is not clear what to do with the railways themselves.
Let them wander around in the warmth (to what condition?) Or put them in the refrigerator? And staboutIs it even possible to bother with these or start new ones

[Olga VB]

Olga VB, Olya, I fed mine and put it in the refrigerator, then I got it out, they warmed up, but I could not bake it again, I fed it again in the refrigerator, and only the third time it turned out to knead the pre-fe, it seemed to me that they became stronger. And yet, I don’t know about girls, I have a thick pre-fe — well, it didn’t grow in any way, and I halved my flour, then it started. And then I added flour to the dough, which did not get into the pre-fe! Don't throw it away, the little animal is an experiment, no

[Olga]

The dough didn't even budge in 4 hours ...

Olgamaybe he is cold? In the warmth it is frisky!
And bread can be baked in HP by morning.
By the way, I just put in the pre-enzyme. At 3 am I will add more railway and flour. That is, I will do as Lina said. But she doesn't answer us about sour cream. I will add 1 tbsp. l.

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, for two times now add flour, I even missed it ?!

[Oksana]

Oksana, yeah missed. This is the first time I do it. And Lina, it turns out, is not the first time. So I'll try. Read her posts on the previous page.

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, found everything, read it. Interesting!

Olga, maybe he's cold? In the warmth it is frisky! And bread can be baked in HP by morning.

In the oven stood with a light bulb
And I don't have HP
I can, of course, start the dough on something else (old dough or sourdough), but this, too, will ripen only by tomorrow evening, because I don't use yeast, and everything else is not fast.
Now I'll look for something fast in the bins

In the oven stood with a light bulb

Normal temperature! Strange! Yes, Olenka ... It happens! Here I had the same with cake dough. I didn't want to grow, that's all. But I finished it off.