"Eternal" leaven

not mine does not smell like yeast, that's for sure, and in general she doesn't want to get up anymore. The third feeding finished it off.

Not with yeast, but with what? I don't remember about the first sourdough, it was a long time ago, and the second, with regular use and feeding, smelled about a month of ground dry peas (tasteless smell, and the bread from it was not very good, albeit beautiful), and then it began to smell very tasty fruit kefir, and the bread became delicious, just like with the first sourdough. The first sourdough smelled delicious, some kind of overripe fruit, it seemed to me like cherry. Then I didn’t bake bread for two weeks and didn’t add flour and water to it, there was a clear smell of yeast, which was not even there before, I was very upset, deciding that all the lactic acid had died, only yeast remained, and put a new sourdough ... Your leaven will "grow" - its smell and taste of baked bread will change for the better, I think, side. Yes, most importantly, I had rye flour, and you had wheat flour?

I also have rye, and the smell ............. I can't determine what it smells like, but it's unpleasant for me, for some reason it is associated with vomit

I also have rye, and the smell ............. I can't determine what it smells like, but it's unpleasant for me, for some reason it is associated with vomit

So why are you torturing her, make a new one, this one has most likely already died

I am doing this for the first time and I do not know how it should be. After the second feeding, it grew, and after the third it stopped.

My leaven smelled like a sour dough at first. But I got to feed it three days ago and was stunned - the smell of fresh apples I baked rye today only with sourdough, without adding other liquids, very tasty

I should also know how this sour dough smells ............

I also don't like the sourdough smell (and there is nothing similar to apples), but in the finished bread this smell is not. Works well! When I take it out of the fridge, as if it’s asleep, you mix it up — it’s immediately obvious that it’s alive, it starts to bubble. And yet, now the batteries do not heat up, when I feed it, put it on the refrigerator closer to the back wall, it is always warm there (the compressor is running). Yes, and kefir there too - to quickly become old - for rye

I should also know how this sour dough smells ............

Hmm ... at one time there was even a sharply sour smell, not as stunning as that of vinegar, but something close ... Then the leaven smelled like sour fermented dough, and this fruity-apple smell, very fresh and pleasant, first appeared.
You are in no hurry to throw out the leaven, feed it and put it in the refrigerator, it may still be reborn

I just think what needs to be done with it now, after the third feeding it no longer rises. Do you still need to feed her or just wait?

:) Feed and warm! Let it stand until it starts to move. If she doesn't start, then she's already dead

I probably would have left her alone. I would close it with a lid and refrigerate for 5 days. And then I would repeat everything from the first feeding. If she is alive, nothing will happen to her in the refrigerator for 5 days, she will rest, she will come to her senses)) Why should I forcefully push feeding into her now through the "don't want" feeding?

What a capricious thing. It is necessary to think in advance how to bury her if that, otherwise she will be offended.

after the third feeding, it no longer rises. Do you still need to feed her or just wait?

Alla is tired. Most likely, the strength to climb has run out. Now I do not adhere strictly to the amount of dressings. Sometimes even after the second feeding the leaven "breaks into battle", and sometimes only after the third "it enters into force". Already looking at its appearance. If you just started to raise her, then she is still weak and could just be exhausted from the efforts)) Give her a break))

Okay, so be it, let's give her a break. The question arose. I have it in a 2 liter jar. The bank should be closed and if necessary, then with what?

My starter culture lives in a plastic food container. I close it with a lid. Close the jar with an ordinary lid.

and I close it with gauze the old fashioned way, which my dog ​​especially likes, he just drags on this can when I put it on the battery ... even gobbled up my mother, so I scraped off a little of her from the can, now the dotsya is growing ... maybe not it is worth bothering and closing the lid (I'm afraid that she won't have enough air)

Z. Y. I went and smelled it - it smells like kvass, mmmm delicious ...

[ml.]

I am doing this for the first time and I do not know how it should be. After the second feeding, it grew, and after the third it stopped.

Try feeding in proportion again 50 ml. kefir and 50 ml. rye flour. Pay attention to the container volume, not the weight. The consistency of thick sour cream. Pay attention to the smell and even taste, the smell should be sour. Sometimes the starter culture can gain strength for a week, so feed it. After feeding with kefir, whey, it will grow in the refrigerator.
And yet - whoever has kefir sourdough or cottage cheese and kefir in the kitchen constantly, then their bacteria are constantly in the air and, accordingly, get into the leaven and help it rise.

Good luck! Watch and write.

and I close it with gauze the old fashioned way, which my dog ​​especially likes, he just drags on this can when I put it on the battery ... even gobbled up my mother, so I scraped off a little of her from the can, now the dotsya is growing ... maybe not it is worth bothering and closing the lid (I'm afraid that she won't have enough air)

Z. Y. I went and smelled it - it smells like kvass, mmmm delicious ...

You can go crazy from the preferences of animals and people Class

Alla is tired. Most likely, the strength to climb has run out. Now I do not adhere strictly to the amount of dressings. Sometimes even after the second feeding the leaven "breaks into battle", and sometimes only after the third "it enters into force". Already looking at its appearance. If you just started to raise her, then she is still weak and could just be exhausted from the efforts)) Give her a break))

Speak correctly. Both the old and the new leaven behave completely differently.

And do not forget that we all live in different climatic conditions and use different products, etc. This also matters.

The leaven died when the lingering smell of acetone appeared. Start over.

If it begins to flake off or a crust appears, then you can remove the top layer (discard) and start feeding again.

Girls generally watch her all the time. And don't forget to love

Yesterday it peeled off from me. Above there is yellow water, and below it is thick. The smell has not changed. I put it in the refrigerator for now. What do you advise, install a new one or wrestle with this one.

Yesterday it peeled off from me. Above there is yellow water, and below it is thick. The smell has not changed. I put it in the refrigerator for now. What do you advise, put a new one or wrestle with this one.

Last time you were fed and what? How much time does it cost at all. The smell as I understood it is good. Mine smells like sour apples, tastes like sour applesauce.

The last time I fed it the day before yesterday, yesterday it peeled off and I put it in the refrigerator.
The smell for me personally is unpleasant, but she smelled like that from the very beginning.

[Boo Boo]

The last time I fed it the day before yesterday, yesterday it peeled off and I put it in the refrigerator.
The smell for me personally is unpleasant, but she smelled like that from the very beginning.

Boo Boo, now it is very difficult for me to orient myself, not knowing all the subtleties, and not seeing the leaven.
Let's do this. Let this sourdough stand in the refrigerator, maybe he will think of something.
And in a week I will feed my sourdough, let you know in a personal, and together on the forum we will try to grow a new kefir sourdough, and we will do it step by step from the very beginning.
If you agree, read again about the leaven yourself, see the photo step by step, and prepare the necessary products.
I will do it with rye flour and old kefir and whey, although you can do it with water and rye flour, choose the option.
But observe this leaven. Whether you like it or not, the leaven has its own smell, and you need to take it for granted, get used to it. Again, my sourdough smells like sour applesauce, and tastes about the same.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot for your help.
Gave her husband a sniff, asked what it smells like. I thought for a long time, could not find the answer. She told me about sour apples. In general, he agreed. So maybe she's nothing.
How to understand that she's up to something?

Thanks a lot for your help.
Gave her husband a sniff, asked what it smells like. I thought for a long time, could not find the answer. She told me about sour apples. In general, he agreed. So maybe she's nothing.
How to understand that she's up to something?

It will slowly rise up.
You can again remove the top layer of the starter culture and add as much (by volume as removed) rye flour and water (or kefir, whey) and a quarter teaspoon of liquid honey to stimulate it. Try it.

And so, wait for a letter in a personal.

Hello everyone! I'm a newbie, so be lenient please! Of all the types of leaven that Admin threw me, I settled on this eternal one. Why? A very tempting name is eternal leaven. I have read all the pages and I have a few questions
1) after 3 days, how much of the leaven is obtained?
2) how much sourdough is used in baked goods? Is it poured instead of liquid or what?
3) if I want to bake without yeast at all, how much starter should I use?
4) how much leaven can stand in the refrigerator until the next baking?
Well, this is all the questions that arose after reading the topic for now.

Any leaven is "eternal" because its eternity is kept on the constant feeding of the leaven, and you can feed it forever.

Since the principle of operation and feeding of all starters is almost the same, for clarity, look at the topics

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...6&topic=3394.msg38671#new

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mf&Itemid=26&topic=3470.0

they are the answers to your questions.

And then yourself - develop your own leaven by your own experience and observations.

I decided to try to bake bread and it was with sourdough, read this thread and decided to make an "eternal" leaven. I put in some work, in the end everything worked out, so I would like to share some of the subtleties that are very important for its preparation and which I came to empirically.

Two things are critical in making the leaven.

The first is warmth. Everything related to the preparation of the leaven necessarily implies warmth. At room temperature, the process either does not go on, or it goes sluggishly and in the end the desired quality is not achieved. I thought a lot about where to prepare the sourdough, in the end the question was resolved - there was a riser with hot water in the bathroom, and a pipe from it to the heated towel rail. It is on this pipe that all the starter cultures are grown. The pipe is hot, so I put a towel on it. But it should not be thick, so this will again slow down the process.

The second is air. The leaven must breathe. Here is a subtle moment where I stumbled and threw out two leavens. First, I covered the glass jar with damp gauze, it dries quickly, and a crust formed on the surface of the starter culture. The crust blocked oxygen to the mass below, and the process did not develop quickly. It started to happen, but after the crust everything stopped. I decided to close the jar with a lid with a small hole. Then the leaven did not dry up, but another trouble happened - the leaven was suffocated and a disgusting smell appeared. Everything went into the bucket too. Then I found a good option. I would take a medium-sized towel, moisten it, and cover the sourdough can in half - four times, pulling the rubber band on top. Then the sourdough breathed, and a moist warm atmosphere remained inside the jar, which did not allow it to dry. The process has begun.

In a warm place in the presence of air, the starter culture is actually prepared in three days. On the first day, you can knead thinner - at this time, the main thing is that everything is soaked. And then everything is as written. The leaven always has a pleasant bready spirit. If its smell seems disgusting or unpleasant to you, you probably spoiled it with something, and you should not add it anywhere. When preparing flour, I used peeled rye falconry, which I bought at the Crossroads.

During storage, the starter culture is quite undemanding to conditions. After you have added the sourdough to the dough, you mix the same amount of flour (and water, of course) into it and put it in the refrigerator. The same fermentation process takes place there, only slowly. In three or four days you will see that it has already bubbled up and has risen. This means it's time to bake bread or feed. Then you take it out of the refrigerator in the evening, knead the dough in the morning and the process repeats. Important! Take out the starter at night before kneading the dough! Then the sprouting time of the sourdough is halved than if you knead the sourdough from the refrigerator.

In general, leaven is a pet. If you understand what she needs to be happy, she will serve you with all her heart! I had my seventh or eighth supplement today. The dough and dough are already so spreading that homemade people wonder how it can be without yeast. And what bread! And what a spirit there is all over the house!

In general, this is also happiness! I wish everyone delicious homemade bread!

To confirm your developments and observations or find out something new for yourself, look at another topic on the site "Sour-milk sourdough" in the Bread Section - everything is head, the principle of preparation is the same as for you and look at the photo at the same time.

Good luck in your research!

Thank you, very informative thread! And there is a lot of theory to read and think about. The theory is important for me as a basis for understanding the process.

I thought about one more topic .. Ten or twelve years ago I went to the monastery on Easter to visit and pray. Well, the fact that the cakes are notable there is understandable. But what really struck me was the taste of the local white bread. Bake his old man baker. It was a loaf of completely white wheat bread. I don't remember exactly the taste, but here's the aroma !! The aroma of such freshness, pure wheat flour - it was an absolute exclusive. I have not eaten such bread either before or after. And I remember that bread often.

I certainly do not dare to repeat or approach that perfection, but I want to try. I don’t think that bread was yeast. And if with sourdough, then not with rye, for sure, because it would be absolutely white, pure wheat. So I wondered from which side to approach the wheat bread. Wheat pitch on rye sourdough - it turned out gray. So you need to grow wheat sourdough? I have thoughts on this topic, but before reinventing the wheel, I want to ask, maybe the recipe for this bicycle is already somewhere on the bread maker?

Thank you very much))

See Lola's Monastery Starter Theme

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=176.0

There could still be grape

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=70

Thank you. By the way, the first thing I came across from the search engine on the bread maker was the monastery sourdough from Lola. I wanted to grow hop No. 1 - but I couldn't find hops anywhere, not a single nearby pharmacy holds. I had to start with "eternal" - maybe this is for the best, because it is necessary to start from scratch. And "eternal" is flour, water, and your desire. What is called alpha and omega. I worked it out to the fullest.

Concerning wheat I decided the following. On the advice of experienced bakers, I think to transfer rye to wheat by gradual additional dressing. So that the rye does not disappear and ten cans are not diluted. And there, if something is not implemented as I wanted, I will try other, more complex leavens from the zero cycle. I will report on the results.

Thanks to the experienced and everyone who helped with advice.

Yes, by the way, hot water is turned off at my 16th house.And my riser with hot water will not heat any dough or dough. Ambush for a month! ((

I put in an oven preheated to Min or in a multicooker for heating (20 minutes, then just closed)

Yes, by the way, hot water is turned off at my 16th house. And my riser with hot water will not heat any dough or dough. Ambush for a month! ((

The sourdough works great even without heating, at room temperature 20-24 * С. I personally feed her directly by putting it out of the refrigerator, she behaves great.

an answer is urgently required!

Last night I mixed half a glass of flour and warm water until thick sour cream, put it on a towel folded in a nest on the heater, the temperature apparently turned out to be more than 30 degrees. 12 hours have passed - the sourdough has bubbled up, the surface has a foamy cap - that is, according to the description, it looks like it should look like only after the second feeding, on the second day. I fed her right away, about 2 hours have passed - she is already increasing in volume - I am attaching a photo of how she looks now, the upper edge of the sticker indicates the level after the first feeding

The question is - it will double in volume today - can we assume that it is ready? Or should she be tortured further?

if this is the first starter culture, grind it for three days, with feeding once a day, so that it is fully over-acidified.

Read what to do with sourdough and what sourdough is here:

Lactic acid starter culture from Admin.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mf&Itemid=26&topic=3394.0

Preparation of uterine starter culture
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mf&Itemid=26&topic=1331.0

ZAKVASKI - in questions and answers
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=3704.new#new

Admin, you do not understand - I have been reading the forum for several days, and I have already read about leavens many times.

I am asking you very specific questions.

rms, you can already try baking with this sourdough, and feed the rest of it.

It seems to me that it’s too early - it’s not even worth a day. At least I'll be there tomorrow (that is, how the second day will end) - now it is rising, but not as actively as at first. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

The smell is so strange, a strong smell of rye and some other ... like rotten apples, or something ...

It seems to me that it’s too early - it’s not even worth a day. At least I'll be there tomorrow (that is, how the second day will end) - now it is rising, but not as actively as at first. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

The smell is so strange, a strong smell of rye and some other ... like rotten apples, or something ...

I answered the question above. And even gave an address where everything is well described, and even more.

"If this is the first sourdough, strain it for three days, with feeding once a day, so that it is fully over-acidified."

And nevertheless, you are not satisfied with the answer and you are asking the questions that have already been answered in the listed topics. To answer in more detail, you just need to take it and read it. Otherwise, you will have to repeat these topics on this thread.

To bring down the intensity of passions in the topic, a little about something else.

On the basis of the "eternal" leaven, and, in principle, any one from our forum, you can arrange a joke for your friend the surgeon.
An experienced surgeon is desirable (even better a military one).
Meaning - the surgeon with his eyes closed should be allowed to smell a little of the leaven (preferably slightly weathered, so that the alcohol component leaves).
Come up with theatrical eyeliner yourself (like, a friend's bandages on the wound smell strange).
If the surgeon is good, he will at first become serious and say "gas gangrene".
The joke may be slightly angry.
But the leaven really smells like a field surgeon's nightmare.

[Uncle Sam]

Uncle Samwhat associations do our favorite leavens evoke in you

You are resourceful as always ...

Well, yes, the smell - but what kind of bread is on such a leaven, and

[in one place is compressed but]

Dear Admin, thank you for your work, do not be angry, I marked my question as urgent, because it was not clear to me what to do with it, since it is growing so fast, maybe it will double in size in a couple of hours - after all, according to the description of bread leaven , this is the peak of activity, after which it is necessary to divide it. To read the topic "questions and answers" (the only topic from your links that I have not read) - I need more than one hour, since I have a small child. Surely you spent more time giving all the links than writing "grind it for three days, with feeding once a day, so that it is fully over-oxidized."

It's a pity that there is no whole article in which you in one place is compressed but would fully describe the process and its subtleties

There are so many of us on the forum, we are all different, with different requests, understanding, skills, etc. ........

I don't know how and where to place my material, constantly 50 x 50 "pros and cons" and vice versa, it is impossible to please everyone.

So, if it's not clear, ask, I will answer or give links where to read in more detail, otherwise it does not work.

Good luck!

Luke! Thank you so much for your "Eternal Leaven". Everything worked out the first time. A very strong leaven! Already twice baked bread on it without adding yeast. Moreover, it turns out not quite as they write here about the further use of the leaven. I take it out of the refrigerator, put it in a warm oven for about 1 hour, then feed it (I add about half a measuring cup of 230 ml. Peeled rye flour, then a little water), put it back in a warm oven and after two hours it doubles. The bread rises without problems. The truth begs the question. We now sell peeled and seeded rye flour. Which one can be added when feeding - only peeled or can be sown? Or is it not important?

Which one can be added when feeding - only peeled or can be sown? Or is it not important?

You can add any.

Sourdough is a sour dough. It turns out to be active and complete after a number of dressings, it needs to be fermented well, then there will be no specificity. aftertaste of yeast and acid.

Thank you very much for your reply.

I am now engaged in "eternal leaven" (m. Rye + water), I have already gone through the second circle. I put kefir to age, I want to make it on kefir. I have already read everything I can for sourdough, but I still have questions ...
Baked rye bread 2 times, it really raises well, albeit with yeast. Today is the 3rd day - I will bake either tonight or in the morning.
Tell me - can't you take a sourdough for baking when it is resting? Because it does not always coincide with time (when the leaven is ripe and you need to bake)
And what is the minimum amount of flour you can take for feeding? Because it is offered where 100g, where 200g, somewhere read 60g.?
And another question - if you freeze it (you can read it) - then you defrost it and again in a circle for 3 days? With her, everything is fine after freezing. I would just come in handy, since I'm going on vacation and I'm sorry if it gets spoiled
thanks for the answer

Dear friends and like-minded people, all those who have a problem with leaven. I want to share my recipe for sourdough, which at one time I took on
🔗.
Works flawlessly. I apologize for the brevity. Maybe someone can translate it in more detail into Russian. Several assumptions (I apologize for my possible mistakes).
1. The air temperature should be at least 21 and not higher than 27 degrees
2. It is advisable to observe all the same sterility - clean dishes, whisks, surfaces, TIGHTLY close the dishes with a starter (sourdough).
3. Flour: for a start, rye or at least whole wheat flour is desirable.
To save flour, I slightly changed the calculation of the starter, but left the principle: each time we add TWO TIMES MORE FRESH flour to sour flour.
So:
1st time: 1/2 cup water + 3/4 cup flour. Stir well. Cover TIGHTLY with adhesive tape (usually used to wrap sandwiches or leftovers) (Cover TIGHTLY with plastic wrap, not a towel, or lid each time)

2nd time: 12 hours later (the dough rose by 5-10%). Remove HALF of the starter. Add 1/2 water, 3/4 flour, mix.

3rd time: 12 hours later (the dough became watery, boiled). Remove TWO THIRD (and then always (!) 2/3)) starter, add 1/2 water 3/4 flour.

4th time: 12 hours later (the dough became even thinner, boils). Remove TWO THIRD starters, add 1/2 water 3/4 flour.

5th time: 12 hours later (liquid dough, bubbling). Remove TWO THIRD starters, add 1/2 water 3/4 flour.

6th time: after 12 hours (liquid dough, bubbling). Remove TWO THIRD starters, add 1/2 water 3/4 flour.

After 12 hours, the leaven is very active, ready for exploits.We put a third in the refrigerator, use 2/3 for the dough.

Attention, so that the refrigerating starter goes back to work, revive it 2 times by adding 1/2 water and 2/3 flour after 12 hours.

Good luck !!!!!