Italian sourdough (Levito madre) - cultivation and care

[fffuntic]

fffuntic,

It is probably not very strong in rye flour. Rye bread is not so popular with them, not so widespread, the methods of baking it, working with it are also different, not traditional for Russia. More traditional for Europe, for example, for Germany. In addition, the qualities and properties of the rye flour used by Hamelman are not very well known to us. It is generally not very typical for them, in the sense of a growing region. The devil only knows. Here Hamelman talked with a microbiologist about the difference in the use of rye or wheat starter culture for rye bread. According to him, the microbiologist did not see the difference which starter was originally used. That is, according to its microbiological composition. However, Hamelman claims to see a decent difference. The quality and properties of bread. He explains this by the fact that, in addition to composition, the behavior of microbes is also likely to matter. As if they are more familiar and trained in quotes to work with rye flour beforehand. That is, for rye breads, he prefers rye sourdough. I mean what I mean. About the fact that, in addition to scientific calculations, large specialists also have vast experience, some of their own developments, preferences, and subjectivity, like any person. We just have to read the theoretical base and go our own way.)))

well yes. The maestro from the panettone strictly assures that Levita with the addition of rye flour is no longer suitable, even if it was refreshed a hundred times later.

In short, I went, girls. Recently, in the topics on HP, I endlessly out of place somewhere get in with my info and opinions. Excuse me. I see that no one needs it.)) Probably, it's time to pause)).

what more!!!
Different opinions are needed, different opinions are important. I'm soaking in while

[Ritus]

RitusBy the way, the question is for you.
Wheat according to Calvel and this Levito. Compare to your taste, pliz. Which one would you recommend more?

[fffuntic]

fffuntic,

I don't have Levites yet.)) I'm just going)).
But I have taken out a lot of starter cultures and I can not give any preference. They are just different.

Oh, I messed up, I thought a question for me)).

I am very interested: the truth is this Levite is really worth all these efforts.
And I don't have manitoba in my house, only order from the Mother See with an overpayment, so enthusiasts need to be warmed up right as they should. Theoretical research, whether manitoba is desperately needed, directly affects economic interests

Ritus, by the way, a question for you.

Is it for me?

[Ritus]

Why am I a lot Ritus know? Let's write the answer

[good]

I don't have manitoba in my house,

Me too. And I won't even search. I started on Macfa. Now 12 squirrels have switched to Krupnov. I laid out the photo above (how the packaging looks like).
Impressions too. (It got better).
According to Calvel good leaven. I took it out for a long time. Lived for 4 years without Starter cultures.
Now I wanted it again. But it caught fire exactly Levito... I can't compare.
Different care, different management. I had Calvel 100%. To feed meant stir.
It's more difficult to feed Levito - an extra bowl, rolling pin, rug are used ...
Place on the table ...
I really managed to make the process * much * easier for myself. But these are my dips. Others do not concern.
From what scorching: This is the Cherkizovskaya bun in KP (I posted a photo in a cafe).
High-calorie buns from Chuchelka (Natasha!)))
I bake wheat-rye bread every other day. Fritters and pizza and khachapuri boats.
... For me, it's fun and pastime. To distract from thoughts. Calm the nerves. Not a medical or dietary necessity. therefore to me fun.
I'll get tired - I'll give it up.
Honestly, it is time consuming, laborious and ... "suddenly" it will not be baked by leaps and bounds. So before you start playing, you need to be sober estimate your strength.
She wants to eat, her surplus appears all the time. You need to either bake and bake and bake, or throw them away.
Well, or cool, freeze, but then again "warm up" and ADVANCE.
HERE may form inconsistency in time working women.
Over time, the hostess gets tired of the leaven (I judge by myself when she worked) and gives up this business.
... About the taste of the leaven - everyone here should judge for himself, Lena. I won't tell you anything. Straight the most-the-most or not the most ...
A matter of taste.
I didn’t like products made from white flour with Sourdough before. And they really like this one.

Further, semi-rye also like very much and have UNCOMMUNICABLE for Sourdough bread pleasant taste. No acidity. And this is for me! That's how I love it.
IMHO.
Here's how to judge?
We all various.
I think she said everything.
And I repeat - this is only mine personal opinion and feelings.

[Nata,]

In short, I went, girls. Recently, in the topics on HP, I endlessly out of place somewhere I get in with my info and opinions

Nata, don't even think of running away. And you and Helen-Funtika very interesting and instructive to read! You understand this and give advice based on your experience and the experience of others! And this is very necessary! For example, I myself will not find anything (I do not really understand the Internet), but here I read, I will remember something, I will reread something, write it down! In general, don't leave us!

[furious]

Too much theory depresses me personally. I am a practitioner. I did it, I tried it. I changed a little, tried it. I love and can read. But without furious wisdom. It’s you yourself without me!
And who is born there in my leaven, and who "dies", as Lena says, is not very important to me, so I will go "alone" to play.

And who is born there in my leaven, and who "dies", as Lena says, is not very important to me, so I will go "alone" to play

PPKS!

girls, I will report - she fell out. Taste - rip out the eye and the left leg, the smell - pure alcohol. The consistency - something with something - like candied syrup, barely picked it out and tore it off the walls. Obviously, the process went to the wrong steppe. Fed up, plopped a spoon 1c. I'm waiting for what happens. These are the pies.
By the way, who covers the container with a film, do you make a cut for air access?

so I'll go "alone" to play

no, well, it's not fair, we now have common games, so get involved again.

Last night, when I was feeding my two sourdoughs again, it was a pity to throw out the leftovers, because I now tightly close it with a lid, the top does not dry .. I got 80g of sourdough (leftovers) and I muddied another jar 80 + 40 +80, this morning, the can is upside down, the lid has been torn off ... I started baguettes with this leaven, without yeast ...

Gray bread (Jasques Mahou) (Sonadora)

[Helen]

Helen, super !!!

[Newbie]

Newbie, Thank you!

[Helen]

Helen, Flax, bread is super!
Congratulations on your firstborn!



Flax, how does it taste like?

[Margarita,]

so I'll go "alone" to play.

Margarita, no, no, no need to go underground! We really need practice! The theory is interesting to learn (for me, for example), but the example of practitioners is more important than theory!
Guys let's be friends!
Helen, what baguettes! Doesn't taste acid?
Ksyusha, what with your leaven, to which you added honey, come to life?

[Rita]

Rita it's easy to call yourself a practitioner. She has a sixth sense: at once everything turns out at the highest level for which she will not undertake. She, yes, does not need a theory at all. When there is talent and intuition, nothing else is needed.

Who is not lucky to be a practitioner, torment with theory

and what to do if it is not lucky either there or there?

My leaven turned out to be hyperactive, after a few hours it was swollen by leaps and bounds, did not rise at night, but it turned out to be pretty curious (beautiful). Such a voracious one, obviously requires two feedings, but in the morning there is no way to mess with her. Crumpled. I'll see what happens tonight.The smell is not as vigorous as yesterday. If this continues, you will have to give up on the whole thing.
And yes, I am confused by the consistency - pure sugar syrup

As I understand it, when you take the ingredients like a teacher, you get it in a written way. And when you buy your own flour, then the proportions of water-flour and the number of feedings already need to be selected for yourself

[dripping down]

- you screwed up the consistency of the dough. Even strong flour releases water over time in sourdoughs, and even weak flour should definitely be kneaded, taking into account even this factor.
- you allowed the gluten to overgrow and break, at least you didn't knead it in time.
- you feed at the wrong time

all this is perfectly fair!
the first bun was a little soft, stood, before the first feeding the dough dripping down from a spoon. The second kolobok made it denser, but again stood still, this was horror - the taste, and smell, and consistency

Among other things, you knead the dough disgustingly, the yeast did not even have enough air.

but it's true, I didn't pay enough attention to this

I realized for myself that if it is not possible to grow the leaven correctly, to observe literally hourly - and it’s time to feed the child - we must finish with it. And I will throw it away, it will still be of no use.

Apparently it's not mine ... fluttering

you do not understand. At first, the flour is full of all smelly husk. Therefore, a nasty smell in the beginning is just the way it should be. The first feeding also makes sense to free the leaven from the dead reptiles. And now, after the initial time, together with top dressing, the sourdough becomes sour - this is already there only ICD. As long as the sour smell and taste is normal - that is, the sour is not bitter, even vigorous - everything is fixable with top dressing.

[Helen]

Helen, Flax, bread is super!
Congratulations on your firstborn!



Flax, how does it taste like?

Helen, what baguettes! Doesn't taste acid?

Thank you! The taste is great! Some other ... not sour, does not smell of yeast ... I have baked these baguettes many times, I like them, like baguettes and like bread ... If you look in the subject, there is a lot of a report of my pastries ... this one is so nostrils !!

Yesterday I fed my children again ... and again it was a pity to throw away the leftovers ..., I again muddied 80 + 40 + 80 from the leftovers, put them in a higher jar ... refrigerator (experiment), kept it on the table for 2 hours, and then in the refrigerator. I was looking for a cool place in the apartment, I couldn't find ... only a refrigerator ... That's what happened in the morning!

That's what happened in the morning!

Lena, how many days is the leaven already?
I fed mine for the first time today. She looked good. Rose well, so nostril. Smells, of course, not very much. I will continue to follow her! It's easier for me, I don't need to go to work, almost always at home.

you do not understand.

here is the truth, and no intuition, and theory for me is like a Chinese literacy

theory for me is like a Chinese literacy

Newbie, if you wrote your NAME to us, we would "whisper" over you ...
Bewitched ... And everything, everything would start to work out for you, dear!
And the theory, if confuses * you, then you do not read it.
The leaven may smell bad for the first day or two. It's not scary.
The next question is: why do you "thump" flour of the 1st grade there? I don’t understand?))))

I read how IT all works .... The feeling that they showed me my cat in a cut. Of course it’s interesting, but my hands dropped immediately. There was a fear that I was doing something wrong. For two days I did not bake anything, and I put the leavens in a cool place, even there was a desire to throw them out. Then I calmed down, took out, fed. Margarita-mamusi writes that the leaven helps her to get away from unnecessary thoughts, she completely agrees with her. I don't know how it works, but IT works, I add flour, water, leaven, knead the dough in a bowl, then knead it between my palms, 70g-35ml-70g, a ball the size of a tennis ball. I do not use a rolling pin or a table, knead it in my hands, at the same time the leaven is warmed up, I put a warm ball in the jar. In a few hours a full jar of lace !!! Personally, from this contemplation, the hormone of happiness is produced every day and does not get boring.
For three years in the morning I have not felt my fingers, the doctor suggested an operation, I'm afraid, I refuse. Kneading a tough dough for ten minutes a day and I forgot what it was like not to feel my hands for hours. They began to "thaw" in the late afternoon. Mountains of broken dishes! Who knows, you will understand, no massages, baths help. And here in a few weeks I feel like a man! I can pour boiling water into a glass in the morning and not pour everything around. I also don’t like even a little sour bread, someone likes it, I don’t argue and I don’t like protein custard because of the sourness. And when I first baked bread on Levito, I did not even believe that it was leavened bread. Not sour! Bread from childhood, the same taste and smell. I don't know what kind of sourdough my grandmother brought out, but the bread was not sour. I remember taking out the dough from the jar and adding everything to the dough. There were traces of sourdough on the walls of the jar, grandmother poured water into the jar, chatted and added flour, kneaded the dough and put it in the cool pantry. When she was about to bake, the new leaven was ready. No matter how much I didn’t take out the leavens, everything sour. The children ate bread, my husband ate, but I could not. She was afraid that they would not like bread on Levito. Have tried and ask to bake now only this one.

[Bozhedarka]

The next question is: why do you "thump" flour of the 1st grade there? I don’t understand?))))

I decided to experiment, if it still doesn't work out WHY and what it would give me - I don't know myself
and Helen has one leaven in the first grade removed (translated the arrows)

I am Svetlana.



Bozhedarka,
but my hands immediately get tired of kneading, I shake, shake, roll into a bun - and into a jar



fffuntic, why did you delete your "many bukaffs"? Ay-i-i-yay
it's informative, i absorb, do not hesitate, although it is a Chinese letter, but the Russian alphabet is already visible in places

Helen has one leaven in the first grade removed (translated the arrows)
I am Svetlana

Yes! One on Nordic, the other on Alekseevskaya (Correct), on the packaging did not find that it was of the first grade, it says "general purpose flour" protein 12.6

on the package did not find that it was of the first grade, it says "general purpose flour" protein 12.6

there the marking is TM 75, 75 means 1 grade, if it was 55 - then in / s

I like Correct, but disappeared from sale, and where are you stocking up?

[Helen]

Helen, I have already tried Cherkizovsky on Levito from Mommy, I bake it every other day, now your baguettes are next! I do not even doubt that they will take root!

Oh, girls, what a debate you have here!
I realized that I need to treat everything more simply, as they say "the further into the forest, the thicker the partisans", but I'm just kidding ...
I completely agree with Ritula about the technological jungle, when I start to delve into the details, the brain is boiling, maybe this is me, you just have to take it and try it.
Forgive me if I offended anyone!
And my report.
Those of my leavens that I had stopped, and in the end I tried to make one of the two, feeding a little honey, I still threw out, because she did not show signs of life.
The day before yesterday, that is, on the 13th, I put a new one on the pear.
Here's a start.

It's in 24 hours.

It is today .

This is already fed 50/25/50 (durum in half with McPhee w / c)


This time everything was different, and she did not rise so rapidly, the patamushta was tightly mixed !!!, and immediately nostrilism manifested itself, in general, I watch further, now I will feed once a day and

Oh, girls, what a debate you have here!
I realized that I need to treat everything more simply, as they say "the further into the forest, the thicker the partisans", but I'm just kidding ...
I completely agree with Ritula about the technological jungle, when I start to delve into the details, the brain is boiling, maybe this is me, you just have to take it and try it.
Forgive me if I offended anyone!
And my report.
Those of my leavens that I had stopped, and in the end I tried to make one of the two, feeding a little honey, I still threw out, because she did not show signs of life.
The day before yesterday, that is, on the 13th, I put a new one on the pear.
Here's a start.

It's in 24 hours.

It is today .

This is already fed 50/25/50 (durum in half with McPhee w / c)


This time everything was different, and she did not rise so rapidly, the patamushta was tightly mixed !!!, and immediately nostrilism manifested itself, in general, I watch further, now I will feed once a day and

Ksenia, everything is great !!!

Hooray!

[Trishka]

Trishka, write, what is your dough consistency before the second feeding, pzhl

[... But I can't]

And I totally disagree that theory is unnecessary! And I do not agree that this is a jungle!
For some reason, you girls make sourdough and I'm glad for you... But I can't! Even though I put everything according to the recipe and according to the canon for the fifth time.
Do not offend Lena Funtik with your "fears"! If you are afraid, please pass by theory. And for me, who has no intuition in dealing with leavens, there is no reason to rely on anything other than theory!
What am I going to do now, also go out of here, if everyone has "fooled" the theoretical approach and Lena won't come back here ?! Moreover, she always hid her theoretical calculations under the spoiler, well, who did they interfere with ??
How can you, with your intuitive approach, "just put it down, just feed it, it just started up" will you help those who can't do nifiga ??!
I don't understand how categorical people are, different information is needed!

[Nastya]

Nastya,

it is very difficult to offend me, especially online. Don't be so emotional. However, it is advisable for me to take into account the interests of the majority and not to litter the topic by frightening people. If someone is personally interested in my opinion, then there is always a personal. I will gladly communicate without unnecessary many letters in the wrong place
In PM, I can even lure you into my light KMKZ-faith)))) I already lured Svetik there, she liked it

[Tricia]

Tricia, I agree with you, the theory is also necessary and important, and I didn’t fucking, really
And what have you failed for the fifth time? Negative experiences are also experiences and are just as useful as positive, share.

However, it is advisable for me to take into account the interests of the majority and not to litter the topic by frightening people.

I do not agree!!! if something frightens someone, you can pass by, but someone may be delayed.

[Trishka]

Trishka, write what your dough consistency will be before the second feeding, pzhl

I will definitely write, even take a picture!
Sorry girls, once again if you offended anyone ... This is purely my opinion and FSE!

And what have you failed for the fifth time? A negative experience is also an experience and it is just as useful as a positive one, share.

Makfa flour, Granny's recipe flour, dry gluten. Banana, honeysuckle, banana. No mold, no unpleasant smell. High acidity, the leaven does not rise, but loosened up after a time. Either the consistency of the putty, when the gluten is destroyed and the leaven strongly floats, then the consistency of a looser putty, where there are few bubbles, a little gluten remains.
I continue to feed, but I increased the amount of leaven / water / flour added (100/100/200), because it seemed that gluten is better preserved in a larger volume.
I keep it in a dark cupboard in the kitchen, temp. approx. 22-24 degrees I feed intuitively when it starts to sour strongly or swell more strongly. Not earlier than in a day, not later than in two.

[Tricia]

Tricia, I also have the consistency of putty. But my first feeding was overripe and fell out, and the process obviously went wrong (I think so), but before the first feeding everything was normal for you?

acidity

Oh, and I haven't tried mine yet, sour or not?

I am Svetlana

Nice to meet you, Sveta!)

Then I calmed down, took out, fed. Margarita-mamusi writes that the leaven helps her to get away from unnecessary thoughts, she completely agrees with her. I don't know how it works, but IT works

+1
And I have so.
And with fingers, a similar problem. True, because of two different injuries on two hands.
But we will still "fight" !!!!

Svetlana

!

[their]

the theoretical approach everyone "fuddled" and Lena will not come back here ?!

But this is not true!
Nobody fuddled. Lena herself says that everyone has the right to express their opinion. Only their "sensations" I wrote personally.
Theory exists regardless of us and our "desire-unwillingness" to read it! ..
Exactly what she "tried" and decided that to me you don't have to read it a lot. And someone needs and he reads. What insults, why.
I do not see how I offended Lena.
She just turned personally to me with a question. And I answered. I tried honestly.
Girls, honestly, why again "showdown"
... well, no one planned to offend anyone ...
Simply think dressed in word, it often DOES NOT SOUND!
AND EVERYTHING!
But we don't come here to sing the praises of each other ...
And he will learn and share his experience.
I told my experience Bozhedarka - also.

But we will still "fight" !!!!

damn, but I already decided to surrender ... but no, pipes, I'll wave another saber

[Gosha]

How can you, with your intuitive approach, "just put it down, just feed it, it just started up" will you help those who can't do nifiga ??!

I understand this ...
Since I succeeded, I do not come here, do not tell and keep quiet ...
(Well, since we find fault with the words ...)
Good. Will be done.
Forgive everyone, PLEASE!

That's Gosha started a leaven to calm the nerves.
God forbid, someone to lecture .... I did not strive.

And he will learn and share his experience.
I told my experience, Bozhedarka too.

For what a great!

I don’t come here

But this is fundamentally not correct, Temka exists for that, so that those who succeed in everything, help those who do not succeed in everything right away!
Rituel, don't even think of

Was everything normal before the first feeding?

Before the first feeding, she was the fluffiest, although she was only a quarter fat. That is, not very active at once.