Ivan tea (fermentation of fireweed leaves) - master class

[pavel1963]

pavel1963, if the leaves darkened, then the juice squeezed out. This is enough for fermentation. Juice is a conditional concept. It shouldn't be visible explicitly. A sign of the appearance of sap is a uniform darkening of all leaves, and not partial.
About how long you can brew, I wrote in the recipe - not earlier than a month later. It takes time for dry fermentation. But nothing bad will happen if you brew immediately after drying the tea. You may simply be disappointed - the tea has not yet been brewed ... For example, now I am drinking fresh, since all of last year's was long over for me. I understand that it's early, but where to go?
To know for sure whether the leaves are withered, you can weigh them before and after wilting. Residual moisture should be 60%. That is, if the leaves weigh 1000 grams before withering, then the end of the withering process should be considered the moment when the same leaves weigh 600 grams.

Thank you so much.

[lappl1]

lappl1, thanks for the detailed description and support of the theme! I am reading it for the second year.)) I came here in the fall, I only managed to experiment with the leaves of different garden bushes and trees.) It smells delicious during fermentation, but in tea it somehow implicitly turns out ... Everything gives off grass with different flavors. Or should it be grass, herbal tea?

This year I waited for Ivan-tea, made the first batch. Dried evening, night and morning, stirring the leaves, getting up several times. I waited so that they did not fall apart if squeezed into a lump. Then through a meat grinder (I was surprised how easily they spin, in the fall I twisted a blackberry))). Then she fermented, the layer was thick, at home at 20-22 degrees. It smelled delicious. Part dried after 10 hours of fermentation, the second part - in the morning, after 20 hours, it turns out. Here was the aroma when drying was for the whole house, such a floral-strawberry ... I set the oven to 1 (in total, it dried out in about an hour and a half, then dried it for a couple of hours in the dryer. Now it hangs in a pillowcase. But the tea itself , in my opinion, it doesn't smell strong, and the taste is weak. The color is rather dark. And so, again it just gives off grass.
So I expect too much from Ivan-tea, am I used to store-bought flavored ones? Or am I doing something wrong?
In general, I will definitely drink it. I have already dried lemon balm, mint, ivan-tea flowers, I will dry more berries, I will make mixtures - I love that ... But I want to drink straight and enjoy how tasty it is.

Hello tea makers! I have been making Ivan tea for the second year. Recently I found this forum on the Internet and read the whole topic. And I have questions.
1. About the smell. I do not smell any floral aromas during fermentation or drying. It smells sour during fermentation and good brewed tea during drying. And so it was with me before, I thought so. The honey aroma appears in tea only after drying on the second day. If you open the jar, then a strong smell of flower honey. But here on the forum everyone writes about some kind of stunning smell of strawberries and bananas .... I definitely don't have it. Just the smell of tea and that's it. The smell of honey appears only after standing for a day in the jar.
I dried and kneaded the leaves. fermented and about 15 hours. I did it in the afternoon and dried it the next morning. Dry at 110 with convection for 10 minutes, then turn it down. The baking sheet dries completely in half an hour
2. Here I learned that the leaves can be frozen. I tried it. Good in principle. If you twist the rolls. But when I knead, only the central veins remain from the leaves, and everything else crumbled.
Why?
3. Can tea be stored in jars with plastic lids?

[tapioca]

tapioca, I have smells like you.Only dried and standing a little - I smell honey or flowers.

Hello Tatiana and Tapioca, welcome to our topic, we are very glad to see you.
Let's try to sort out your questions: Tanya, since the tea smelled delicious during fermentation and drying, then everything worked out, let it "reach", at least a month, dried tea practically does not smell. The only layer during fermentation should be at least 5 and no more than 10 cm.
Tapioca (and there is a name?) During fermentation you need to "catch" the smell, last year I caught the smell of prunes, I never succeeded, but there is a smell during drying, but who thinks? It depends on your sense of smell and preferences, but the smell of honey and flowers is always there. We have Nastenka, as she will describe the aftertaste after tea! No one succeeds, but she has a keen sense of smell. The baking sheet dries out in half an hour, this is very fast, but again, what is your layer. It is not necessary to freeze ivan tea, it is spinning great anyway, you need to wither it well, this is a prerequisite. try to ferment less, 6 hours, then the aroma will manifest itself more. I twist almost all the tea in a meat grinder.
Well, later the author of the topic will come up, correct me, I'm also studying.

[tapioca]

tapioca, I have smells like you. Only dried and standing a little - I smell honey or flowers.

Well, so I'm not the only one ...
my name is Tatiana, now I will fill in the profile

I tried to ferment less. 4, 5, 6, 7 hours. The result is the same. The smell is the same sour with more or less intensity. When drying, the smell of tea, ordinary tea without any flowers.
Then, when stored, yes, it smells.
I'll tell you about last year's tea. He, too, smelled good tea and that's it. No bananas or flowers or fruits for you.

2. Here I learned that the leaves can be frozen. I tried it. Good in principle. If you twist the rolls. But when I knead, only the central veins remain from the leaves, and everything else crumbled.
Why?

From my experience. The leaves crumble when crumpled, if they were too overwound, that is, they are already dry.

Well dried ones don't crumble, but not dried ones, yes. And after the freezer, yes, the vein will probably remain from the Ivan tea, it is already so soft. Plastic lids. I think it is possible to store only so that they do not smell of anything, otherwise the finished tea will absorb all extraneous odors.

[Elena]

Elena, I didn’t mean well-withered leaves, but over-dried leaves. When I forgot about them, and they dried up on top. I ought to throw this away, but I mixed them into the business. Then they will crumble anyway.

Well, right! Do not waste the good, and even SUCH! good.

I tried to sprinkle it with whey when crushing it, then fry it as much as 250 degrees for 10 minutes. Everything turned out the same, I don't catch the difference in the smell. Very nice. Maybe when it's infused, something will change.

Serum? 250 '? Ndaaaa, well, let's see what happens in a month, but the temperature is already very high.

I looked at what teas they sell. Available with serum.

[mumra]

mumra, tapioca, Tatyana, welcome to tea topics!

Everything tastes like grass with different flavors. Or should it be grass, herbal tea?

mumra, Tatyana, I carefully read your post. The tea should not smell like grass. You seem to be doing everything right. The pleasant aroma during drying is encouraging, which means that the tea was made correctly before this stage. But I don't understand what the number 1 means when drying. What temperature is it? I suppose that you have something with drying. Most likely insufficient temperature at the beginning of drying. What layer was the tea dried?
The herbal smell in the finished tea gives:
1. Insufficient leaf wilting (you seem to be fine).
2. Poor leaf breakdown in preparation for fermentation (you are fine with that).
3. Low temperature during drying (here I did not understand what you have).

tapioca, Tatyana, now I answer you.

2. Here I learned that the leaves can be frozen. I tried it. Good in principle. If you twist the rolls.But when I knead, only the central veins remain from the leaves, and everything else crumbled. Why?

I removed the freezing leaves for fireweed in the recipe. They are young and juicy now. Leaves crumble from insufficient withering. There is no more reason. In the rolls, you did not notice this, since you did not have enough strength to destroy the leaves thoroughly, and during kneading the efforts were different, so the leaves collapsed. Do not freeze fireweed leaves at least until August.

1. About the smell. I do not smell any floral aromas during fermentation or drying. It smells sour during fermentation and good brewed tea during drying. And so it was with me before, I thought so. The honey aroma appears in tea only after drying on the second day.

Maybe you have such peculiarities of perception? The main thing is that you got this pleasant smell during storage.

3. Can tea be stored in jars with plastic lids?

Read the recipe carefully. It says it:

Fireweed tea is stored in a dry, dark place in glass jars with plastic lids.

Dry at 110 with convection for 10 minutes, then turn it down. The baking sheet dries completely in half an hour

Why did you choose this drying mode? You have convection, which means that you can safely lower the temperature by 20. You simply dry out the tea. The Chinese write the following about this stage:

Very fast drying of tea using mainly high temperatures (above 100 ° C) does not produce good results, as well as very slow drying and very low temperatures (below 75 ° C). The use of high temperatures during drying significantly reduces the quality of tea, since its aroma is significantly reduced due to the loss of essential oils and sublimation of caffeine. However, to obtain a "stable" product, it is necessary to dry at a temperature of at least 76.7 ° C, therefore, the optimal temperatures should be considered during the first drying 90–95 С, at the second - 82–87 С.

Tatiana, please read the list of links at the end of the recipe and find there points that are relevant to your case. I recommend that you read the excerpts from the book very carefully. Maybe you can find the reason for your failures. It is very difficult for me to understand this from a distance.

[niamka]

I tried to sprinkle it with whey when crushing it, then fry it as much as 250 degrees for 10 minutes.

niamka,

[mumra]

I set the oven to 1 (in total, it dried out in about an hour and a half, then dried it for a couple of hours in the dryer. Now it hangs in a pillowcase. But the tea itself, in my opinion, does not smell much, and the taste is weak. The color is rather dark And so, again it just gives off with grass. So I expect too much from Ivan-tea, am I used to store-bought flavored tea? Or am I doing something wrong?

mumra, Tatiana, 1. Why should you run dried tea in a dryer for 2 hours? 2. The recipe says that the tea must mature for at least a month. it is too early to draw conclusions. 3. Do not expect your Ivan-tea to resemble shop tea. It is different. But not with a herbal smell, exactly.

Most likely insufficient temperature at the beginning of drying. What layer was the tea dried?

Here the temperature controller has 8 divisions. I began to dry the first batch of tea for 2, after half an hour I made 1 (by this time it was already dry, in my opinion). The layer was ... well, rather plump, about 2 centimeters, several times gently "wiggled" it with a spatula, the steam from it began to go very strongly, I was scared that it would burn. I kept it in the dryer for another 2 hours (well, I just left, that's how I arrived, I turned it off right away).
I dried the second batch for 1, dried for about an hour, then turned off the oven, left it to cool there, then touched it, a little damp, like. I put it in the dryer, dried it for another hour for about an hour. In general, I didn't really notice the difference between these two teas. I guess I'm just not a gourmet.))
It feels like the temperature in the oven even at 1 and with the door ajar is too high. The tea dried out quickly.
But this cannot be, I bake pies in it at 4 and 5 degrees, it is somewhere between 200 and 250 degrees.

Tanya, since the tea smelled delicious during fermentation and drying, then everything worked out, let it "reach", at least a month, dried tea practically does not smell. The only layer during fermentation should be at least 5 and no more than 10 cm.

Thanks for the answer!
I'll wait a month now, go regularly and sniff it.))) Well, I brew it too. And I'm also going to visit the fireweed plantations, I will try to do it in different ways, to compare.
Fermented in a normal layer, 8 centimeters. I even measured it with a ruler.

[Tatyana]

TatyanaFirst of all, it never became clear to me what temperature you had. Convection oven? If so, the tea dries quickly even at low temperatures. And the low temperature gives the tea herbal taste.
Secondly, the layer during drying should not be more than 1 cm. That's right, steam is coming, so you need to mix it often. The spatula does not mix well. I do it with my hands - it does not burn. In addition, you can see the steam yourself. with a thick layer, the tea is simply steamed and all aroma and taste are lost. Try to dry next time with a layer of no more than 1 cm, stir often, but not with a spatula, but with your hands. Uneven drying and scattering of granules can occur from the spatula, which also worsens the tea.

Convection oven?

Not without convection. I found it on the Internet about the temperature of my oven.
1 - 135 - 165 C
2 - 150 - 180 C
I did it with the door open. I don't know how many there were ... But I don't have another oven. The dryer says 60 - 70 degrees, but, in my opinion, less.

Secondly, the layer during drying should not be more than 1 cm.

Well, with 2 cm, I probably got excited. Now the baking sheet has gone and looked, it was 1.5 centimeters for the first time, and even less the second time.

I used a spatula to stir up normally, as qualitatively. )) She's so long and narrow. It captures a lot at once, but not a wide layer.

[Tatyana]

1 - 135 - 165 C

Tatyana, it's too much. even with the door open. Try drying the tea in a pan and compare the results. A detailed description of the tea pan drying process can be found in the links at the end of the recipe.
You haven't answered me about convection.

I tried to dry it without convection. I did not notice the difference, but with convection faster.

I don't like bag drying. It is fundamentally? Can I dry simply in a dryer at 35 degrees with convection? or is it a bad substitute for the breeze in the shade?

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, your drying temperature is too high. Read in the last answer to you again an excerpt from the book about fast drying, including drying at a high temperature. I trust the Chinese and my own experience. You can rely on your own experience, but you asked me a question, and I answered.
About bagging ... In the book about tea, the link to excerpts from which is given in the Notes to the recipe, we read:

The tea leaf is usually dried twice, and the final moisture content of the leaf after the first drying is 18%, and after the second - 3-5%. The quality of drying is decisively influenced by the duration of the process, the drying temperature, the speed and amount of air in the dryer, the thickness of the sheet layer..

This residual moisture content of 3 - 5% must be present. Otherwise, during storage, dry fermentation is simply impossible due to the absolute dryness of the tea. Are you sure that when you dry your tea in the dryer, you will have this amount of moisture? But in the air and in the breeze, this moisture will be present, since the air always contains moisture. It will not be noticeable, but it will be. And dry fermentation from week to week, from month to month, from year to year will only improve tea.
Try this and that. Compare the results. Choose the best one. I don't like to dry my tea in the dryer. I have described one of the reasons to you, the second is that a small fraction of tea spills out.

[Tea problems. What should be done to find the error?]

Tea problems. What should be done to find the error?

Dear tea makers! It may happen that the tea, in your opinion, did not work out for you. Don't get upset right away.
First, you need let the tea mature within 1 - 2 months on dry fermentation in a dry dark place.
Secondly, violation of technology at one of the stages can ruin tea, and even more so on several. Therefore, I recommend:
1. Read carefully whole recipe... Perhaps you missed some moment (or several) and violated the technology, which negatively affected the quality of your tea.
2. Read carefully active links in the Recipe Notes. Maybe, such a question has already been asked. and the answer was given... Please follow these links and read the answers.
3. Read carefully excerpts from the book about tea, which are referenced in the Recipe Notes. Perhaps a more detailed description of the technology for making tea will help you understand the essence of the process better and avoid mistakes in the future.

If, nevertheless, you have not found the answer to your question, then I recommend describing the whole process of making tea by you together with the question. Without this, it is impossible to answer your question and find errors. The following questions should be answered.
1. What kind of tea did you make - loose (rolls or mixed) or granulated?
2. How many leaves were collected - is it enough?
3. How did the leaves wither - the thickness of the layer, the temperature, where did they wither, how often did the leaves wither, did the lump of withered leaves open after compression?
4. How well the structure of the leaves was destroyed when preparing the leaves for fermentation (for leaf tea), did the leaves darken from the released juice, did they darken evenly, were they moist?
5. Have the leaves been frozen (fireweed leaves do not need to be frozen)?
6. How the tea was fermented:
- temperature during fermentation;
- a layer of the fermented mass; is there sufficient volume:
- how long fermented;
- did the smell change during fermentation?
7. How was the tea dried - what, is there convection in the oven, by what layer, temperature regime at all stages of drying, stirring frequency, smell during drying, was the tea in the bag dried?
8. How do you store tea - what, where (darkness, dryness), is it tightly closed, how long has passed since preparation?
9. How do you make tea - how much do you put in 1 glass of water, what water do you make, how long do you make it?

I ask you to, do not neglect the answers to these questions if you ask for help. This will save time for unnecessary correspondence..
I ask the same do not neglect repeated careful reading of the recipe... Experience has shown that questions are often asked, the answers to which are in the recipe itself or in the comments, which are actively referenced in the Notes.

[lappl1]

lappl1, I am grateful from myself and from my friend. Thanks to you, we learned about the possibility of fermentation of fireweed at home.

Before that, we tried to make tea from garden plants, the result will be in a month, not earlier. The one I was drying smelled like a broom. Then I read the topic, made conclusions. And so this week we swung at fireweed. First, we found it. Secondly, they collected it. Withered, fermented, dried. Fireweed at all stages smelled deliciously honey. When drying in my microwave on convection, the tea leaves smelled simultaneously of honey and Indian tea. Or Ceylon, which was in Soviet times.
I personally screwed up the second batch a little, did not calculate the strength, the leaves were rough and dry and there were a lot of them, and I could not twist them in the Moulinex meat grinder, so I twisted them with my hands, kneaded, and even tried to use the kneader for kneading. Hands turned out the best, the remnants were kneaded by the kneader and then I myself. From this procedure, some of the leaves did not darken after fermentation (I went through), and some darkened normally. The smell was pleasant at all stages. From the selected, greenish tea leaves, which I thought I didn’t work at all, I wanted to throw it away, but changed my mind, I made tea. I don't like herbal teas. And this tea turned out to be floral honey!
Now I can imagine what tea tastes like, which is made according to all the canons of art !!
I will try to get tea of ​​decent quality, today I have also collected educational material, since Mother Nature did not stint on the fireweed harvest ..

[musyanya]

musyanya, Lyudmila, I am very, very glad that you and your friend are engaged in this exciting and useful activity! Everything is going great for you. The fact that you delve into the process and look for ways to improve tea says a lot. This means that you will make tea "according to all the canons of tea art." Make tea a lot, different and delicious. Good luck to you !
Thank you, Lyudmila, for a wonderful report!

[niamka]

niamka, Natalia, about the serum - can you tell me more? For what?

Somewhere they wrote about the fishy smell - so I felt today from the dried flowers of ivan tea. Before that I dried it - everything is fine. The last batch was collected on Thursday, dried, dried in a dryer. She began to transfer to a jar, and just the same covered with a fishy aroma. What I thought - on the already faded inflorescences-pods, already prepared to throw out the down-seeds. There is nothing more to sin. I'll hang it in a pillowcase to ventilate, since the wind is strong today.

[Olga]

Olga, it is from not completely dried raw materials that a fishy smell can go.

Only from drying? Well, I hung it in a pillowcase in the breeze!

no, it shouldn't smell like that from drying. Well, let it dry up in the breeze.

I climbed up, checked all my teas - yes, the smell ..... It costs little, but you can already catch all sorts of delicious sweet notes. Miracle!

[MariV]

MariV, while rolling the rolls, sprinkled well with whey. I didn't know how else to apply it (they sell this tea). Then she fermented for 12 hours, then roasted for a maximum of 10 minutes (my oven gives out 250 degrees). Then she dried it for a short time. I wondered what would happen. The appearance and aroma turned out to be good tea, as well as in the usual way. After a few days, it smells like other teas in the jar. But when brewing, turbidity and a slightly sweetish taste appeared. I don't like that. I won't do that anymore. The tea has not yet been infused, but I think it will not get better, if you do not like it right away, it is unlikely that you will like it later. So it was with the plum. I didn't like it right away. Stood for a month, brewed it yesterday, nothing good. Such is the experiment.

[niamka]

niamka, Natalia,

So it was with the plum. I didn't like it at once.

I didn't like the plum either. And my husband drank and praised. He said that I do not understand anything and that I have something wrong with taste.

I didn't like the plum either. And my husband drank and praised. He said that I do not understand anything and that I have something wrong with taste.

My daughter also liked the plum. Everyone has different tastes.

[niamka]

niamka, I'm drying strawberries now. It smells distinctly FISH! I don't know what it will taste like. The plum did not smell like fish. It tastes like fish. Something is clearly wrong with me.

[Radushka]

Radushka, and to me ordinary green tea smells like purchased fish.

[niamka]

niamka, I was once, when we had "nothing anywhere" presented with cool green tea. Well, very dear! It tasted like old sprat butter. I still don't understand why he is so expensive)

[Radushka]

Radushka, we are probably just black tea fans.

Girls, read the link about the smell of fish. This smell is given by proteins, which have oxidized under suitable conditions. It means that something was wrong at some stage of making the tea. Strawberries can't smell like fish ... Radushka, I suspect that you haven't wilted it enough, and then froze it. Here in the excess juice, the oxidation of proteins occurred, of which there are many in the leaves.

[niamka]

niamka, Natasha, but it's good that you made this tea with whey. I think that you would not have calmed down if you had not tried. Now you will know that you shouldn't make tea like that.

[MariV]

I climbed up, checked all my teas - yes, the smell ..... It costs little, but you can already catch all sorts of delicious sweet notes. Miracle!

MariV, Olya, I'm so glad that everything worked out! These feelings are perfectly familiar when you open each jar and smell the tea - what it turned out to be. Congratulations on your good tea!

[lappl1]

lappl1, Luda, yes, it's better to try than to suffer in doubts later.

[niamka]

niamkaNatasha, once read a clever thought: "Better to do and regret than not to do and regret." Never let you down ...

[lappl1]

lappl1, Luda,

[lappl1]

lappl1, Ludmila, I did not freeze her at all. And the smell was only BEFORE drying. Not now. And tea of ​​excellent taste (here I sit and drink)

Lyudochka, from me, too, accept a huge thank you for the seagulls. : rose: Made granular. Last year, my hands did not reach the fireweed, I only made it out of garden sauces. But a neighbor (she is a therapist) told about all the secrets of fireweed tea and she made it. She had a pregnant daughter at that moment. The poor girl suffered from migraines, and then the seagulls from IVANUSHKA came to the rescue. It was a salvation. Drink some tea and everything goes away. A wonderful little boy was born. So accept gratitude from her too. And I could not stand it and tried some fresh tea. Even now I liked it, and in a month I think it will be my favorite seagull. Tomorrow again on a hike for fireweed, since we have plenty of it both in the woods and in the meadows.

Luda, look how many new professionals there are, it's nice how! Alexandra Andreevna, we are very glad to see you!

[elena kadiewa]

elena kadiewa,
Lenochek, thank you for the kind words. Well, I ... I also want to be healthy and beautiful

[Andreevna]

Andreevna, helped with migraines? : girl-swoon: need to "re-prioritize"

[Loksa]

Loksa,
Yes, Oksana, from migraines. The mother of this girl is a therapist with a long experience as a practicing doctor, so the diagnosis is accurate.