azaza
Quote: Mona1

Or maybe not press at all? On the video he says - it is necessary without effort. Everything is strange. And when you lead back, don't you take your hand off the grater? It is necessary to follow it, but not press at all. And when you rub, then at the moment of movement, do not press the button, so it seems. At the top, I pressed it, if the vegetable has already rubbed off to the holder, let it go, and then rub it. Damn, I give advice to a "seasoned" hostess with experience. And she herself has just read the theory. Nothing, on Friday I will direct this energy to its destination.
Mona, the vegetable does not come off the grater when working on bladeless inserts. On the knives, it must be lifted when moving up - otherwise there will not be blocks, but garbage of unknown sizes and shapes: the knives will cut vertically when moving up and down (without falling into the previous tracks when moving backwards), and they will be cut in another plane only when moving down. At least that's how I understood it.
The button on the fruit holder has nothing to do with the type of slicing, it works equally well on knives, even on knifeless ones, even on separate graters (Carly, Rocko, graters, etc.). With the button and the holder in general, I had no problems the first time.
Venta
Found another video in Russian, about Prima) I hope not to repeat myself

Chupik
Girls, hello!
I also became the owner of this wonderful grater. Model Trend.
I really want a stub, but I've come across links only to Ukrainian sites, and I'm from Russia. Can anyone see a stub for Trend in the Russian online store?
mowgli
Quote: Chupik

mowgli, does your store have an internet version?
yes, I don’t know, but the store seems to be fixed on the main site: TSUM, Stavropol, but in my opinion there is no online store
azaza
Quote: mowgli

Share how you have Curly, is it worth buying or not, I also want a Baby Greter
I won't tell you about the baby - I don't need it yet, if anything, I'll buy it later. And I already wrote about Carly. Super grater! I really like to chop winter cabbage on it - it is so soft, fluffy. I haven't tried anything else yet. I purposefully bought it for winter salads.
ks372
Girls, pay attention to the pizza grater !!!
“Nice detail - this grater has no metal knives, and boiled vegetables do not stick to plastic.
But potato casseroles with "PIZZA Greater" are something special. No knife will make thin flat noodles out of raw potatoes.
Salad has many corrugated steel knives and is much more expensive than a completely plastic PIZZA grater.
But PIZZA is made from very good. hard plastic and will last you a long time. It is also fundamentally that boiled vegetables and cheese do not stick to a completely plastic PIZZA-grater (unlike metal knives on SALAD - everything sticks there as usual).
Of course, you will also rub the cheese on a salad dressing; not then you will have to wash it from the corrugated small knives only with a brush.
PIZZA is also half the size of SALAD by its "machine size" and you definitely won't cut cabbage on it.
On the SALAD knives they give wide shavings (about 1 cm) - this is normal for a casserole, but hardly for herring under a fur coat ... "
Everything is true! It is very simple and easy to cut even raw vegetables for salad: carrots, margelan radish, cucumbers. Juice does not flow from them and are cut at the "moment". And how she cuts beets is a song!
Mona1
Quote: azaza

Mona, do you take sheep into your herd of reindeer?

And yesterday I once again watched the video in Russian, and the enlightenment caught my brains by surprise: insert the inserts BEFORE THE CHARACTERISTIC CLICK !!! It's night in the yard, but I went to the kitchen. I swear to myself: here's your office.the representative listed on the site! sold a leftist, an infection, and did not hesitate! For I know for sure - nothing clicks on me. No matter how much I shove, nothing clicks! I'm afraid to shove, because plastic is fragile. And then, having received the "go-ahead" from the uncle Rolikovsky, kaaaaak stuck it! And it kaaaaak clicked, but kaaaak was fixed! And 3.5 carrots cut through absolutely gorgeous, without the slightest brat, sir.
join us! (from)
Finally, today I managed to experience the Trend and the graters. Tanyusha, can you imagine, at first I also could not completely insert insert 3.5. I look, it dangles a little, I think it should be so. Rubbed it. Some healthy bars came out. then I insert 7 mm, and she clicked once and sits tightly and does not hang out. Rubbed it. I look, the bars are 3.5 in size. She again took the insert 3.5, pressed harder, and lo and behold, she also advanced further and fixed herself to death. Rubbed, wonderful cubes, smaller than the first time. But at 7 and 3.5, I had no uncut pieces. I think how they come out uncut with you and how to help you, but how everything was successfully resolved for you, great, congratulations!
By the way, I rubbed the stub in the unsecured form, as you had. It will be necessary to learn how to fix it.
In short, I tested all the graters, mainly on potatoes, then I fried all this mountain of slices and bars of different thicknesses, waffles and failed spirals, and now I will eat. I have never had such tasty and interesting-looking fried potatoes! In short, I'm destroying evidence.
When we eat, I'll write more about the test results with pictures, a little later. Bon appetit!
Mona1
Let's continue. Here is my wealth:
Grater Burner (1)
Further, there is a universal box with inserts: 3.5 mm, 7 mm, and knifeless. Next to Trend with inserted plug in the BLANK function. And if you insert the other side, then another (average) thickness of the slices is obtained
Grater Burner (1)
By the way, the universal box is quite unstable, it touches a little, falls and the inserts rumble, suddenly something bends there. See what a small footprint this box has. And it's so convenient that you can cram these inserts into it. Conclusion: put it somewhere in a corner or so that it is squeezed between something that will not let it fall off.
Grater Burner (1)
Further, the tray is very convenient and all the graters on it stand comfortably. By the way, recently there have been photos of how they stand on the container, so I also discovered the position for the waffle on the container. Very well worth it and a little tilt, if someone is so comfortable
Grater Burner (1)
Here, in fact, is the cut. Bars for 3.5 and 7:
Grater Burner (1)
Next carrot on Roko. Too many scraps, the carrots kept running away somewhere, then sideways, then fell from the holder. Well, the first pancake is lumpy, then, I think, it will be better:
Grater Burner (1)
And here are the waffles:
Grater Burner (1)
I tried the spirals, they did not come out, everything fell out of the holder, in the same place you must first cut into plastics, and then insert this cut into the holder. In general, I did it, put it in, and began to rub it, it crumbled, some kind of crumb came out.
Here's a little cheese rubbed on a pizza grater. Turla without a holder, the cheese is soft and fell off of it. The cheese had big holes, so there are lumps. But I liked the noodle. You can get pizza. Such as ribbons. It is flat and about 5-6 mm wide, probably like the serpentine was like this on New Year's Eve before:
Grater Burner (1)

I used the plug on the other side to rub the slices of the third thickness, but as I already wrote, I inserted the plug and did not try to fix it, remembering that azaza wrote that it was not fixed. I rubbed it and got this average thickness, took a picture, but I will not post it now, tomorrow I will check it correctly inserted, then I will take a picture for the purity of the experiment.
Tomorrow, because today I am already full,


Venta
Mona1 Look, how everything is illustrated))) With a successful purchase! And further success in use
UZhanka
Girls, has anyone had the experience of acquiring a Trend (or something else from Berner) on Ozone?
Painfully the price is attractive!
But I'm afraid of fake
Venta
I have. It was in Ozone that I bought myself under NG Primu) I'm happy with the yaki elephant) Then the price was even a little lower. For 20 rubles)))
I climbed everything, checked it, studied it with a magnifying glass - everything corresponds to the real Berner - from the icons on the grater itself, to the intricacies of packaging. Does not match the description of fakes)

In principle, you can go to Berner's website (so in a search engine and type) - to their forum and ask if their products are in Ozone. But I saw conversations on their forum about some kind of Berner chopper, Berner's representative did not deny that their products were there.

Ksyushk @ -Plushk @
Good evening everyone!

Mona1, congratulations on your first test drive. I can imagine how many potatoes were killed today.

azaza , reading about rams, smiled. All the same, in all respects, Berner justified himself, no matter how hard she tried to find a flaw: she does not stand up on the podka that way, and does not cut through. Set off to Berner!

And I have a little upset today. I received a parcel from the Pogrebok, ordered a stub and “something else, I don’t remember what” (who is constantly in the subject should remember, I wrote already). So, this "something else" turned out to be Rocko. Tomorrow I'll chop cucumbers and radishes for okroshka. And the frustration is that when I opened the box, I did not find the plug. They deleted it from the order, without explaining the reason, radishes! I was still confused by the amount in the notification, it seems less than it should be. But, I think, maybe I got it mixed up, because even at Ozone I made an order according to Berner, so everything was mixed up in my head. But no, the premonition did not deceive. And I already dreamed of mastering the third thickness with a plug, yeah right now, figs to you, it's called (c)!

A question to experienced Berner scholars: has anyone tried Korean carrots according to the recipe from the ROKO packaging? How do you get salt, vinegar? Taste, color?
azaza
That is not, Plushik, I was not looking for flaws. It’s just that the trowel wasn’t enough to sprinkle it to the basin, and then this insert was "non-cutting." Well yes, we rams are like that
azaza
Quote: irysska

Well, I don’t know if I’m a deer or a sheep, but I’m not friends with 3.5 yet
Don't, girl, don't cling to us! Look for your breed. Deer with a ram are busy
Ir, and you stick the insert until it clicks? Is it good for you? I dangled in free flight. Accordingly, the result was: And today she made a very nice salad. And quickly, and efficiently, and without unnecessary dirt. In general, this is a completely different grater, not the one I complained about
azaza
Quote: Mona1

In general, for the sharpness in everything, in the mind, in life, in the lines and for the ability to use it only with the help of the holder. By the way, it seems like we are in Ukraine!
Well, the sharpness appeared in the graters, but I'm afraid you can't sharpen your mind so quickly
Incidentally, Mon, how is your relationship with the holder? Doesn't it interfere?

Irisha, join the kumpaniya toda, you will be the third.
Yeah, Toffee, blow into our herd! Will you be a moose? The place is still vacant. Elk - it is big and beautiful. The antlers are perhaps not as delicate as those of a deer, but also not as frail as those of a ram.
Mona1
Quote: azaza


Mon, how is your relationship with the holder? Doesn't it interfere?
You know, I forgot to write, somehow not very much yet. it turns out to prick, rub it to the holder too, but when I need to press the button, I can't press it with my finger. I take and squeeze this potato with both hands. She is so solid, she sits on the pins tightly.
And in the video, this moment happens so easily. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Or just a hard potato? And rubbed carrots, too. What to do? Maybe oil the pins before the process?
Mona1
Incidentally, it was insert 3.5 that did not want to move all the way to me, I tried, tried. I was very afraid to press, the thing is new and expensive, who knows, suddenly something will break. And she took 7 mm and advanced and did not hang out. I think, yeah, I'll be back to 3.5. I got involved with her a bit, and it worked! Well, at least it was immediately discovered.

Irisha, and now it seems like a second wind has opened up, I suppose your hands are already itching, rub a thread?
Okay, sleep of the night, friends, I went to the stall.
Mona1
Gradually I get used to the grains, and they come to me, and my husband comes to me with grains (not all of them yet). I want to have potato pancakes for dinner. I read that people are rubbing potatoes on them on insert 1.6.I don't have it yet, can I do it on Roko. I know that for potato pancakes you need to rub it into small crumbs, but at 1.6 and Rocko it will look like hedgehogs, cool. But I like such under-pancakes. In the evening, I'll show you pictures, if possible.

Here is the evening and this is what happened:
Grater Burner (1)
Delicious but unhealthy food. But oh-very tasty. Maybe a little overcooked. But my men eat these crunches with a bang. Residents of Belarus, forgive me if I pass off what I got for potato pancakes. Well this is a Belarusian national dish. These are my second potato pancakes in my life.
azaza
Mon, Duc, I laid out mushrooms in the first photo session. True, I only showed them in profile there, showing the thickness. But if Nata - in the next. since there will be pictures, I give a tooth!
Toffee, I prick one mushroom at a time - as for me, it turns out faster than in bulk. I prick two small ones, but in general I try to take the average size: not small, and not so huge as to halve them.
And vaasche, defushka, it's time for you to become friends with Berner. Yes Yes, Ir, I’ll tell you, don’t look back with a blank look! Dap Mona - you have this grater for a year soon, and you wind all around it in circles, and secretly cut with a knife. Don't let the artiodactyl squad down !!!
azaza
And somehow it worked out with the holder from the first time, nothing falls off. Only I rub cabbage without it, I hold it by the stump. Today I cut the young one not in a quarter, but in half. I didn't even notice how I cut off the stump - it rides so smoothly along the blade, without resistance. I had to catch the fish from the basin
irysska
Tan, chief, I will try. Yesterday I cut potatoes for frying on the Berner. I dissolve the potato with a knife into 4 parts, then I prick 2 parts into the holder and shred. I got used to the fact that potatoes remain in the holder for 2 cutting thicknesses. As you can see, I try
Well, when a lot of onions need to be cut into rings, this is me, too, already on Berner.
Mona1
There is already an urgent need for a 10 mm insert. And also I would not refuse to insert 4.5 to the Trend, although it is only 1 mm more from 3.5. I just need such a size for something. But, as it turned out, this is such a rarity that there is no way to find it. More scarce than a stub. If anyone sees where it is on sale, beep, okay? And I will also buy 1.6, although I have Roko, Schaub Bulo. Earlier in my childhood I remember collecting stamps, all sorts of badges, and now I will collect the Trend and everything, everything to it. What to do with all this? I would like it to be visible, for convenience and beauty, and to be compact. I have the main 3 inserts in the universal box on the windowsill in the corner. I think if I buy another 10 mm and 1.6 mm, then I still need to buy such a box, and if I manage to buy 4.5, then buy a third one, or what? Who stores other graters as extra inserts? I would have hung them beautifully on the wall, not with hooks, so there are no holes in them, there is nothing to hang. Of course, there is a husband with a drill ready, but somehow it's a pity for now. Maybe, I think, buy a large plastic rectangular flowerpot and there Roco, a waffle and others. How is it stored?
irysska
Mona
I have Berner in my closet, there is a chopper, and a food processor, and parchments - foil.
And I shift the knife inserts with a couple of napkins between themselves and send them to a large plastic container until next time.
So the mustache is in the cupboard
Of course, there is no beauty from this, but no one will cut themselves.
Ksyushk @ -Plushk @
Mona, THREE pieces are included in the box for inserts. So if you are lucky enough to find 4.5, then there will be a place for all of them.
Mona1
Quote: azaza


The main problem is not to wash, but to dry - all these inserts-vessels-holders-frames must be placed somewhere before hiding in place. I hide them nearby, but you can't stick them wet on the table. And this is the only Berner minus that I am not yet ready to cross out.
And he cuts mushrooms superbly - it was this happiness that I missed in the combine.
And I don't dry the inserts. I put it in a universal box and they dry there. There are holes in the bottom, excess water will flow out, if that. And on Trend Wet, I put on a cap, too wet, and it dries together, there are still cracks in the same place. But I'll buy some kind of plastic box, so that I can put graters vertically there, so I'll also put on holes in the bottom of the holes, and you can put there wet, what will happen to them.
The only thing, my friends, read that knives cannot be washed with hot water, they become blunt faster. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but my graters are cold water, well, or lukewarm, if the sausage was kotzali, for example.
irysska
And I wonder what the difference is to knives - hot water or cold water What makes them blunt faster is not clear
azaza
Mona, I have all the bells and whistles stored in a cabinet right above the workplace:
Grater Burner (1)
Three inserts in a Berner box (the same as yours), the rest are in their own boxes, cut for convenience and glued together into a block. Someone here has already demonstrated this know-how:
Grater Burner (1)
Very convenient, by the way! And not worth a dime.
Alim
Quote: irysska

And I wonder what the difference is to knives
There is no difference to knives, but the plastic-metal joint cracks due to the difference in thermal expansion
Quote: azaza

Someone here has already demonstrated this know-how:
gyyyy I put a photo
azaza
Quote: Mona1

And I don't dry the inserts. I put it in a universal box and they dry there. There are holes in the bottom, excess water will flow out, if that.
Well, if they had stood on my windowsill, I would also not have to dry. But they are in my desk. And there is no need for excess dampness.

And yes, hot water makes the blades dull faster. Therefore, wash maximum with warm water. If you cut fat, it means with a brush with a cleaning agent, but again not in hot water!

irysska
Quote: azaza

And yes, hot water makes the blades dull faster. Therefore, wash maximum with warm water. If you cut fat, it means with a brush with a cleaning agent, but again not in hot water!
please explain to me why
azaza
Quote: Alim

There is no difference to knives, but the plastic-metal joint cracks due to the difference in thermal expansion
This is from very hot water, like in a dishwasher. From the tap, the water is not so hot, so there will be no thermal expansion. And the knives are still dull from hot water, I know this for a very long time, when in the post-Soviet expanses they had not yet heard of either Berner or dishwashers.
Mona1
Quote: Ksyushk @ -Plushk @

Mona, THREE pieces are included in the box for inserts. So if you are lucky enough to find 4.5, then there will be a place for all of them.
No, 3 with knives will not fit, there are 2 with knives and one knifeless is inserted between them. So and so closely. When I insert or remove the insert with knives (and in the box there are already 2 inserted), then I have to insert it so quietly so that the teeth do not scratch the knifeless one and do not bend it. And then they cling and clink. And if, instead of a knifeless one, you plug in with knives, then the teeth will cling to the teeth. It won't last long. Bend or scratch, stop cutting. It is better to buy another universal box, it will be cheaper than buying new inserts.
azaza
Quote: irysska

please explain to me why
I can't explain, I just know. And for a very long time.
azaza
Quote: Mona1

No, 3 with knives will not fit, there are 2 with knives and one knifeless is inserted between them. So and so closely. When I insert or remove an insert with knives (and in the box there are already 2 inserted), then I have to insert it quietly so that the teeth do not scratch the knifeless one and do not bend it.
I confirm! That is why I keep the 10-ku in the box in which I bought it. I glued it to the rest of the boxes, and I don't even try to put it into the box - it has too large teeth, it won't even fit with a knifeless one! I also have 3.5 and 7 mm in the box, and between them a knifeless one. And yet, yes, the knives cling, no matter how you turn them.
Caprice
Quote: azaza

I can't explain, I just know. And for a very long time.
The maximum temperature in the dishwasher is 65 degrees. It is not recommended to wash in a dishwasher due to aggressive detergents.
azaza
Quote: Caprice

The maximum temperature in the dishwasher is 65 degrees. It is not recommended to wash in a dishwasher due to aggressive detergents.
In short! Twist and twist or twist and twist, but you can only wash the Berner with cold or warm water.
Mona1
Quote: irysska

please explain to me why
Well, it was explained like this: there is such a thing as metal fatigue. and if you stick it into hot water, then the temperature of the type of molecular bonds expands. I washed it, took it out - these connections go back to the place. And if you do this all the time, then connections are slowly crumbling. And it starts, of course, from the thinnest places - from the edge of the blades. Something like that. You may not believe, but it is better to over-... than under- ...
I found out about this at the meat grinder forum when I was choosing a meat grinder for myself. There, people were interested in who sharpened where and whether they generally sharpen knives for meat grinders and what to do to keep them sharp for a longer time. This is where this advice was. And then I heard this a couple of times in other places.
Mona1
Quote: azaza

Mona, I have all the bells and whistles stored in a cabinet right above the workplace:
Grater Burner (1)
Three inserts in a Berner box (the same as yours), the rest are in their own boxes, trimmed for convenience and glued together into a block. Someone here has already demonstrated this know-how:
Grater Burner (1)
Very convenient, by the way! And not worth a dime.
By the way, thanks, at first it's not a bad idea, tomorrow I will cut my boxes like that. It's good that I didn't throw it out. But to keep it that way, of course, you're right, you have to dry it first.
Ksyushk @ -Plushk @
Quote: Mona1

No, 3 with knives will not fit, there are 2 with knives and one knifeless is inserted between them. So and so closely. When I insert or remove an insert with knives (and in the box there are already 2 inserted), then I have to insert it quietly so that the teeth do not scratch the knifeless one and do not bend it. And then they cling and tinkle. And if, instead of a knifeless one, you plug in with knives, then the teeth will cling to the teeth. It won't last long. Bend or scratch, stop cutting. It is better to buy one more universal box, it will be cheaper than buying new inserts.

In my box, they enter without hindrance without inserting 10 mm, 1.6 mm and 3.5 mm. I also put the second fruit holder on him so that he does not lie anywhere. And Carly, I keep Rocko on the tray. I put one of them on the container as for use, I push the other on top until it snaps into place and slip the waffle under this structure, again hooking it into the groove of the container. Then all this in the closet. Comes out compactly.
Mona1
Quote: Ksyushk @ -Plushk @

In my box, they enter the box without easily inserting 10 mm, 1.6 mm and 3.5 mm. I also put the second fruit holder on him so that he does not lie anywhere. And Carly, I keep Rocko on the tray. I put one of them on the container as for use, I push the other on top until it snaps into place and slip the waffle under this structure, again hooking it into the groove of the container. Then all this in the closet. Comes out compactly.
So you mean multibox or universal box, about which, in fact, all the fuss?
Ksyushk @ -Plushk @
Quote: Mona1

So you mean multibox or universal box, about which, in fact, all the fuss?

Which is the current for inserts. Small. Belenky. Translucent.
azaza
Quote: Ksyushk @ -Plushk @

Which is the current for inserts. Small. Belenky. Translucent.
Can we have a defective batch with Mona? I don't have 1.6, but three knife ones (10, 7 and 3.5) are not included in it
Ksyusha, could you take a picture of the construction of a dwarf-rock-sudok + somewhere there is also a waffle. Somehow I did not understand where.
Mona1
Quote: Ksyushk @ -Plushk @

Which is the current for inserts. Small. Belenky. Translucent.
Well, yes, I have one. You are probably a magician. And how do they stand, in what order and how do you manage to push them so that the teeth do not touch the teeth of the inserts, which are turned "facing" each other?
Ksyushk @ -Plushk @
Quote: azaza

Can we have a defective batch with Mona? I don't have 1.6, but three knife ones (10, 7 and 3.5) are not included in it
Ksyusha, could you take a picture of the construction of a dwarf-rock-sudok + somewhere there is also a waffle. Somehow I did not understand where.

Quote: Mona1

Well, yes, I have one. You are probably a magician. And how do they stand, in what order and how do you manage to cram them so that the teeth do not touch the teeth of the inserts, which are turned "facing" each other?

Girls here

Grater Burner (1)
Left to right (bottom to top type): 10mm, 1.6mm, 3.5mm + holder.

Grater Burner (1)
This is closer so that you can see what is with the blades. Of course, I take it out carefully. But my 3.5 insert is old. The rest are newer. Maybe that's why they come in.

Grater Burner (1)
This is a construction with a full-length vessel.

Grater Burner (1)
From one side

Grater Burner (1)
From the other.

If something is not clear, speak up.

Of course, when you need a pot and one of the graters, you just have to put the rest in the closet.

I have a basket, quite high. Tomorrow I’ll spend a moment, as all this economy will fit into it. Now I will not rattle, my son's toys are in it. If everything goes well, I'll show you what the basket is, maybe someone will come in handy.
Mona1
Quote: Ksyushk @ -Plushk @

Girls here

If something is not clear, speak up.

Well, you're a hammer! And I can’t speak yet, I already caught my breath. I would never have thought of placing a grater like that. Tomorrow I'll try to adapt mine somehow. Carly, however, is not yet, but at least those are. Very, very cool. Okay!
Mona1
Quote: Ksyushk @ -Plushk @

Girls here

Grater Burner (1)
Left to right (bottom to top type): 10mm, 1.6mm, 3.5mm + holder.

Grater Burner (1)
This is closer so that you can see what is with the blades. Of course, I take it out carefully. But my 3.5 insert is old. The rest are newer. Maybe that's why they come in.
Are the blades facing each other 10 and 1.6 or 1.6 and 3.5?

Oh, oops, I already saw - 10 and 1.6
Ksyushk @ -Plushk @
Quote: Mona1

Are the blades facing each other 10 and 1.6 or 1.6 and 3.5?

There are 10 and 1.6 to each other. 3.5 blades to the back 1.6.

THANK YOU You girls for THANK YOU!
azaza
I've already tried it. Super! One problem is that the main grater (the one with the Trend) over the entire structure is not very stable, which means that it needs a separate place. Sudok + waffle + karli + roco = excellent!
Ksyushk @ -Plushk @
Quote: azaza

I've already tried it. Super! One problem is that the main grater (the one with the Trend) over the entire structure is not very stable, which means that it needs a separate place. Sudok + waffle + karli + roco = excellent!

Well, my frame is just in the multibox.
I’m thinking, can the Deco-Star be put on top of the vessel? She’s shaped like Carly and Rocko. And also the Pizza Greater there? That's just on the off-site Pizza is a classic, but I would like a Trend.
azaza
Quote: Mona1

Carly, however, not yet ...
Mona, do you often use fresh cabbage? If often - be sure to follow. buy Carly for winter! Right now, it's not up to her, I know, but get ready for the winter. And if not, then you can do without it. Carlos me well, very nra!

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