Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives

[Of course, this variety does not go well with coarse rye flour at all.]

By the way, yesterday I discovered a mistake: coarse flour with bran turned out to be ... wheat flour for challah (challah is a light airy loaf for Shabbat meal) .. My husband, when purchasing from a warehouse, grabbed a large package similar in color and lying next to the desired variety , but without glasses, even in a hurry, he already sees poorly. And we found it out with him only yesterday (and in Hebrew, on a packet of flour for challah, I’m trying to find everything, where is the bran indicated there). This is such a problem.Of course, this variety does not go well with coarse rye flour at all.Now, according to the freedom in the warehouse, he will change the packaging (there are still 18 bags of this flour left there).
I don't know where in which section to write about my yesterday's experience in baking plain white bread:
The recipe from the book to my Mulinex (as well as on the site this recipe is written as a win-win):
400 ml water
....

Normal flour and very well suited for baking Borodino bread in the edition of GOST 1950. There is also a version of the Borodinsky GOST 1939.
But everything is actually very arbitrary and if you rely on taste, then delicious bread can be obtained with different ingredients.

Well, as promised my second custard brew (1450g approximately)
1. Starter cultures "Eternal" 400g (200 flour, 200 water)
1. Whole grain rye flour - 500g
2. Fermented rye malt - 70ml + 150ml boiling water
3. Apple cider vinegar 5% 15ml (added to water)
4. Fructose 70ml
5. Salt-14ml
6. Caraway and coriander topping
7. Water 335ml (I don't remember, I think I added another 30k in the process)
The ratio of flour and liquid is approximately 1/1 (700x700)

Here is a photo report:

Top of the head:

There is a small depression. Vanya reveal a secret :) how do you make sure that it does not crack, you spray it with water?
It can be seen that the crumb has slightly moved away from the crust. I think this is because I cut and deformed it while still warm:

This bread weighs more than the previous one, that's why it rose:

Crumb:

As for the crumb, Vanya, is it a little sticky on the second day? No, it cuts well (without marks on the knife), but when you bite it, a little protector from the teeth remains

This bread goes away in a day, so I decided to increase the mass by multiplying everything by the difference of 1.4 It didn't help, it still leaves in one day For the report I had to cut it ahead of time. I decided to give up yeast completely. My leaven is quite strong and good

[Panasonic 2500, 2501 and 2502]

Here, it can be useful for calculating the time for owners of stoves of the type Panasonic 2500, 2501 and 2502 (I have the first one on the list). Program "Basic Fast" 02, with a choice of size XL and average crust, it works like this (the numbers are taken from the dial of the stove. The total duration of the program is 1:55):

So,
From 1:55 to 1:35 (sometimes before1:40) - batch (20min, sometimes it kneads 15min. It was like that when I stopped this program after kneading and started it again. The kneading time was reduced)
From 1:35 (or 1:40) to 0:35 - dough rise (BE SURE TO MANAGE TO RESET THIS PROGRAM BEFORE IT SWITCHING TO BAKING MODE !!!)
Wrinkle occurred when the dial was 1:15
0:35 to 0:00 - Bakery products

So, it turns out that if you bake bread according to this recipe, you need to have time to reset this program before switching to baking and switch to the program "Pastry" 11 for 1 hour 30 minutes, as indicated in the recipe itself. The useful time of this program is 1hour 20min... It is best to have a timer or alarm clock (I have a cell phone in this capacity, which is always with me) and put it on the call after 1 hour 15-17 minutes (3-5 minutes for a reserve, otherwise you can skip the transition to baking and then have to mess around, cool the temperature sensor in the oven so that it allows you to switch to program 11).

[Coriander]

Well, as promised my second custard brew (1450g approximately)
1. Starter cultures "Eternal" 400g (200 flour, 200 water)
1. Whole grain rye flour - 500g
2. Fermented rye malt - 70ml + 150ml boiling water
3. Apple cider vinegar 5% 15ml (added to water)
4. Fructose 70ml
5. Salt-14ml
6.Cumin and Coriander for sprinkling
7. Water 335ml (I don't remember, I think I added another 30k in the process)
The ratio of flour and liquid is approximately 1/1 (700x700)

Here is a photo report:

Top of the head:

There is a small depression. Vanya reveal a secret :) how do you make sure that it does not crack, you spray it with water?
It can be seen that the crumb has slightly moved away from the crust. I think this is because I cut and deformed it while still warm:

This bread weighs more than the previous one, that's why it rose:

Crumb:

About the crumb, Vanya, you have on the second day is it a little sticky too? No, it cuts well (without marks on the knife), but when you bite it, a little protector from the teeth remains

This bread goes away in a day, so I decided to increase the mass by multiplying everything by the difference of 1.4 It didn't help, it still leaves in one day For the report I had to cut it ahead of time. I decided to give up yeast completely. My leaven is quite strong and good

Added more and Coriander for sprinkling, as they missed.
It is not always possible to fight cracks, it depends on the quality of the flour, the amount of water, the activity of the leaven (yeast), the height and duration of the rise of the dough.
If they are small, then it is better to calm down on this.
The pulp is a little sticky and after a day, this is due to malt.
It should be so.
The result is great!

Here, it can be useful for calculating the time for owners of stoves of the type Panasonic 2500, 2501 and 2502 (I have the first one on the list). Program "Basic Fast" 02, with a choice of size XL and average crust, it works like this (the numbers are taken from the dial of the stove):

From 1:55 to 1:35 (sometimes before1:40) - batch (20min, sometimes it kneads 15min. It was like that when I stopped this program after kneading and started it again. The kneading time was reduced)
From 1:35 (or 1:40) to 0:35 - dough rise
Wrinkle occurred when the dial was 1:15
Bakery products - ?

It is necessary to add on which program the baking continues and how long it lasts.

I was very pleased with your result!

Hello everyone. a month ago I bought a bread maker. first tried standard recipes while waiting for the ingredients needed for rye bread. now I have them. and there were a few prescription questions.
1. put everything according to the recipe, I got a dough like clay. not like in a video clip. the bread maker barely interfered. I got tired of helping her in half an hour :) I added a little water. it became easier to interfere, but the bread turned out to be moist, although delicious :)
2. If I reduce the amount of ingredients by half, that is, I knead the bread by half a kilo, then how long should I set it to bake?
3. I wanted to experiment more. isp rye-wheat bread. Is it possible to simply replace part of the rye wheat flour or even modernize the recipe.
I'll say right away that I read the forum whenever possible, but I have to be distracted by the child. so I skim some of the topics diagonally. if there are ready answers to my questions, stick me in them, please :)

Thank you Vanya For your answers, thanks for your support So far for me this is the best recipe for my favorite bread. Very good!
Amendments were made.

Hello everyone. a month ago I bought a bread maker. first tried standard recipes while waiting for the ingredients needed for rye bread. now I have them. and there were a few prescription questions.
1.I put everything according to the recipe, I got a dough like clay. not like in a video clip. the bread maker barely interfered. I got tired of helping her in half an hour :) I added a little water. it became easier to interfere, but the bread turned out to be moist, although delicious :)
2.If I reduce the amount of ingredients by half, that is, I knead the bread by half a kilo, then how long should I set it to bake?
3.I wanted to experiment more. isp rye-wheat bread. Is it possible to simply replace part of the rye wheat flour or even modernize the recipe.
I'll say right away that I read the forum whenever possible, but I have to be distracted by the child. so I skim some of the topics diagonally. if there are ready answers to my questions, stick me in them, please :)

1. If the roof does not fall, the bread has risen almost twice and the crumb is spongy, then everything is fine.
Wait 30 minutes when kneading, if something went wrong, it's too much, everything can be seen immediately after 5-7 minutes.
It was necessary to drop the batch after 5-7 minutes, add water and repeat the batch.
This bread should have a slight stickiness, it will decrease and stabilize after 8-12 hours.
2. The time will need to be reduced by 10-15 minutes.
3, When replacing a part of rye flour with wheat flour, up to 100 grams, nothing needs to be changed in the recipe and the taste will remain practically the same.
The crumb will become slightly airier and less sticky.

With the permission of the author, I will add that the so-called. The "single-grain" mode is impractical due to preliminary equalization of the temperature and is highly undesirable due to the presence of wrinkles in it (which should not be present when raising rye bread).
In the "gluten-free" program, as well as in the "rye" program, there are no crunches.

But about temperature conditions is also interesting. Is the temperature the same in the baking program and during baking in the rye program?

[Gluten Free]

A short crush is not so terrible for rye bread, as it is often said, if after it there is another 30-40 minutes of rise.
She will not become a hindrance in this case, and the bread will turn out.
An example of this is the early models of Panasonic bread makers, - the mode Gluten Free, makes one short kneading 40 minutes before the end of the rise (the indicator will show 1 hour 25 minutes) and the bread is obtained.
See the photo on the first page of the topic.

I made rye bread with the addition of wheat flour.
It looks and smells the same wonderful bread, then I'll show you in a section how it will cool down a little.
Kneading it, of course, was much easier than using it entirely from rye flour.

[add]

here I made a small brick and half a portion with wheat flour. tastes the same. but he is softer or something as it seemed to me. oooooooooooo delicious. when mixing, almost did not help. just a little at the beginning. there was no kolobok. there was clay. did it on the whole grain mode.
🔗
🔗
add
because. what I did in a small bucket for a sample. took half of all the ingredients.
125g was wheat premium and 125g rye flour. and Vanya28 you were right about the dark agram to dose it very carefully. due to acidity. and so because of half the portion, I see I dosed it wrong and the bread is a little sour than usual. I didn't pay attention right away. until you explained to me.
about the roof. fell slightly. even before baking was very beautiful. fell off while baking. in general, half a portion is more difficult to adjust. but this bread is worth all the pain!

[much less should be added to such agram bread]

here I made a small brick and half a portion with wheat flour. tastes the same. but he is softer or something as it seemed to me. oooooooooooo delicious. when mixing, almost did not help. just a little at the beginning. there was no kolobok. there was clay. did it on the whole grain mode.
🔗 🔗

Good!
The dough just stood still, it was necessary to reduce the rise by 10-15 minutes or add less yeast by 1/3.
The roof fell because of this.
The resulting 50x50 bread is also very tasty, more much less should be added to such agram bread, about half of the pure rye recipe.

[I choose]

Postponed.

I choose of Agram light, Agram dark, Oat bran, Panifarin, Red fermented rye malt, Malt extract, Extra-R, Wheat baking flour 2nd grade, Whole grain wheat flour 'Altai Health, Peeled rye flour, Wallpaper rye flour.
I think what can i do without, and what to buy well, and this is naturally not a complete list, suddenly I forget what I need .... And I probably added flour here in vain, you can buy it on the market ...

Agram light - needed, 30-40 gr. for one loaf.
Agram dark - three times more acidic, as a result, there will be very little swelling flour in the dough - not needed, everything will be replaced by Agram light.
Oat bran - optional
Panifarin - this is gluten, it is required to save low-quality flour and for a good baking. Easily replaced with quality wheat flour. Think.
Rye red fermented malt - very necessary - 40 gr. on a loaf, kept dry and airtight for a long time.
Malt extract - the producer is important; if malt is available, it is not needed.It is worth thinking hard.
Extra-R - can be used instead of Agram light, flavor characteristics are very close. Refused it due to the instability of the composition. If available, Agram is not needed.
Wheat baking flour 2nd grade - very necessary, including for baking ordinary white loaves, not loaves.
Whole grain wheat flour 'Altai Health " - good, but the price is high, it should be practically at the price of 2 grades. There is something to think about.
Peeled rye flour - the main product, if available, you do not have to add 2 grade wheat flour to improve the airiness of the crumb.
Rye wallpaper flour - a very heavy crumb, if there is a peeled crumb there is no sense in it.

It is also very necessary for the taste of Borodinsky and not only
Coriander seeds 3-5 gr.
Coriander ground 15-30 gr.
Caraway seeds 5-10 gr.
Everything for one loaf.

Thank you, it's easier to think ...
And what kind of animal is wheat flour for general use?

And what kind of animal is wheat flour for general use?

It's neither this nor that!
Something not varietal between 1 and 2 grades approximately and with a wide range of characteristics, new trends in the industry.
It is quite suitable for replacing wheat grade 2.

Considering that light agram and dark agram cost the same weight. And you need more light agram than dark agram, maybe it makes sense to buy a dark one on the contrary - will it last longer?
Or are there other factors? Is light better than dark?

[Or are there other factors?]

And taking into account the fact that light agram and dark agram cost the same weight. And you need more light agram than dark agram, maybe it makes sense to buy a dark one on the contrary - will it last longer?
Or are there other factors? Is light better than dark?

Skok, apparently not explained in great detail!
Excuse me, I'll giggle first, and then I'll explain in more detail.

If we take your thought as a basis, then you can save even more and just add one citric acid from the agram composition, cheap and cheerful !!!

Agram light and Agram dark - dark sour three times, if you use Agram dark, then in the end very few will be part of the test swelling flour, which is also part of Agram, and we really need it to increase swelling rye dough and its subsequent loosening.
For example - using Agram light and Peeled rye flour together, allows, in particular, to perform baking of Borodino bread prescription 1939, without the addition of 2nd grade wheat flour. And the taste will be the same!
I hope I have explained it more clearly now.

Yes, and Agram, if it is not there, then you can always replace it with table vinegar.
And so on and so forth.
Read the entire topic and smile.

Thank you.

is it possible to use non-dry yeast for baking rye bread and how to determine the equivalent to dry

is it possible to use non-dry yeast for baking rye bread and how to determine the equivalent to dry

You can even bake with sourdough, it turns out very tasty.

is it possible to use non-dry yeast for baking rye bread and how to determine the equivalent to dry

Go to the yeast (ingredients) section and see the table for replacing dry yeasts with pressed ones.

Hello! And I don't need a 1.6 loaf, how much should I reduce the original components? and more: you wrote. what did the 2 programs use in the bread maker, which ones?

Hello! And I don't need a 1.6 loaf, how much should I reduce the original components? and more: you wrote. what did the 2 programs use in the bread maker, which ones?

Divide everything in half or cut off a piece for your neighbor!

And where did you manage to read about two programs, and without mentioning the latter?

I already fed the neighbors, and not always with a successful experiment (or rather, I do it as written, but it turns out as always), in my opinion, they are already not happy. Your cooking program says: a combination of 2 programs, so I asked which ones? One is for sure for rye bread, and the other is for fools? In the sense for beginners

Please tell me what the malt looks like, is it yellow? Is the “extra-r” flavor improver the same as malt or agram? I'm confused about these supplements, how do you remember everything?

[Your cooking program says: a combination of 2 programs]

I already fed the neighbors, and not always with a successful experiment (or rather, I do it as written, but it turns out as always), in my opinion, they are already not happy. Your cooking program says: a combination of 2 programs, so I asked which ones? One is for sure for rye bread, and the other is for fools? In the sense for beginners

There is also a continuation in the recipe, if you read it, you will find out everything.

Please tell me, and what does malt look like, is it yellow? A taste improver "extra-r"is it the same as malt or agram? I'm confused about these additives, how do you remember everything?

Fermented rye malt has a dark brown color.
Part of dry kvass - Saf Kvass.
extra-r, agram are acidifiers, used in the absence of a live leaven.
If you read to the end what is written, then memorization is more fun!

Can I manually configure the program in Panasonic 2502?

[Can I manually configure the program in Panasonic 2502?]

Can I manually configure the program in Panasonic 2502?

No, but you can correct the recipe for the program or combine it with the existing program settings by grabbing a Tambourine for dancing around the bread machine.

Write if something is not clear.

In what mode of the Panasonic 2500 bread maker you need to bake this bread, and what can replace the agram, please tell me.

[In which mode of the Panasonic 2500 bread maker should this bread be baked,]

In which mode of the Panasonic 2500 bread maker should this bread be baked, and how can replace agram, Tell me please.

You can find the answer by reading the description of the reset.
There is also a link about replacing the agram.
Success.

Well, I tried to do it and, it seemed, the temperature sensor burned out (. I could not switch to the "baking" mode. , always worked in one mode.

[I could not switch to the "baking" mode.]

Well, I tried to do it and, it seems, the temperature sensor burned out (. I could not switch to the "baking" mode. The bread maker writes a mistake, they say, it is overheated and we must wait. But now an hour has passed. Everything has cooled down (. How insulting. Never overheated, always worked in one mode. How insulting

You need to learn (adjust) to use your bread maker.
What is your model?

You need to learn (adjust) to use your bread maker.
What is your model?

Panasonic 2501. I can use it. Did everything right. First, the "no glutein" setting with stirring for 60 minutes, then "baking". But it was not possible to go to 2. For after "no glutein" the bread maker refused to work, they say, overheated.

[Did everything right]

Panasonic 2501. I can use it. Did everything right... First, the "no glutein" setting with stirring for 60 minutes, then "baking". But it was not possible to go to 2. For after "no glutein" the bread maker refused to work, they say, overheated.

Many people say that they know, can and did everything right.

You did not choose the right program for kneading and raising the dough, respectively, it was too late to switch the bread maker to the mode Bakery products.
See the mode table in the instructions.
Read the recipe explanation again, - for your model, a set of recommended programs for combining another.
Read carefully and you will succeed.

p.s.
I decided to finish writing, and at the same time to giggle (do not be upset)!
Here is an excerpt from the recipe explanation -

We bake in the Panasonic SD-207 (253, 254, 255, 256, 257 and 2500, 2501, 2502) bread maker.
Choosing a combination of two programs "Gluten Free" + "Bakery products" (for models SD-2500, 2501, 2502 programs Basic Rapid (Basic Fast) + Bake only (Baking) respectively): ...

[did not choose the right program]

Many people say that they know, can and did everything right.

You did not choose the right program for kneading and raising dough,
....
We bake in the Panasonic SD-207 (253, 254, 255, 256, 257 and 2500, 2501, 2502) bread maker.
Choosing a combination of two programs "Gluten Free" + "Bakery products" (for models SD-2500, 2501, 2502 programs Basic Rapid (Basic Fast) + Bake only (Baking) respectively): ...

Damn it, thanks. I'm a muddler (((((. Thank you. I will be more attentive

There is no malt in your January 21st recipe, only agram. This is not a typo, can I try it?

[This is not a typo]

There is no malt in your January 21st recipe, only agram. This is not a typo, can I try?

This does not happen with me.
And this recipe is no exception - Rye bread

This does not happen with me.
And this recipe is no exception - Rye bread

Then you can still clarify: why is Agram dark - in extreme cases? For rye.

Then you can still clarify: why is Agram dark - in extreme cases? For rye.

This is because it is very sour.
Read more about this in the topic.

There is x / p Gorenje BM1400E.
Question: what program to choose for it? And what can be used to replace AGRAM?

There is x / p Gorenje BM1400E.
Question: what program to choose for it? And what can be used to replace AGRAM?

Carefully read the list of bread makers in the recipe and comments to it.
In the same place about replacing agram, for example, with table vinegar.

Vanya, I’m probably completely, but I don’t understand for x \ n Panasonic 2502 we choose the programs "gluten-free" + "baking" or "basic fast" + "baked goods". SOS !!!

[for x \ n Panasonic 2502 we choose programs]

Vanya, I’m probably completely, but I don’t understand for x \ n Panasonic 2502 we choose programs"gluten free" + "baked goods" or "basic quick" + "baked goods". SOS !!!

... (for models Panasonic SD-2500, 2501, 2502 programs Basic Rapid (Basic Fast) + Bake only (Baking) respectively): ...

[Panasonic SD-2500, 2501, 2502]

... (for models Panasonic SD-2500, 2501, 2502 programs Basic Rapid (Basic Fast) + Bake only (Baking) respectively): ...

Thank you!

Thanks for the great recipe!
I decided to try the enlarged loaf at once - it worked! It's a pity the bread maker can't even do it anymore, this heavy brick was reduced in 2 days)
Yesterday I tried to change the recipe, the acid of the original, for my taste, was excessive.
I put 30 ml of agram on a large loaf, and also added 20 ml (4 teaspoons) of panifarin. It turned out great! Delicious black bread, with smooth round pores, high and with a sloping lid. Recommend!

[this heavy brick was reduced in 2 days]

Thanks for the great recipe!
I decided to try the enlarged loaf at once - it worked! It's a pity the bread maker can't do it anymore this heavy brick was reduced in 2 days)
...

It's good that everything works out!
It is also very wonderful to show the photos in a section for the rest.
and the model of the bread machine to write.
The Panifarin trick is easy to get by replacing 1/2 cup rye flour
for wheat, better for a rougher variety.
Try it. Cheaper and more practical.
Good luck!

The photo will not work anymore - they ate it) I'll take a picture next)
Model - Panasonic 2501.
I put panifarin, not flour, so that the taste does not become like that of rye-wheat. Although you can try, for a change) Thank you!

[Panifarin, not flour, I put]

The photo will not work anymore - they ate it) I'll take a picture next)
Model - Panasonic 2501.
Panifarin, not flour, I put so that the taste does not become like rye-wheat. Although you can try, for a change) Thank you!

And what does Panifarin consist of?
It is gluten from flour with antioxidants in the composition
and for a fun price.
Lick it and wheat flour for comparison.
The taste of rye bread begins to change towards rye-wheat
in the presence of wheat flour in the composition is more> 20%.
Try it.
If the desire to buy Panifarin remains irresistible,
then there is also pure gluten and ascorbic acid on sale,
which is several times cheaper.
It is certainly possible to overpay for marketing and packaging, but not very happy.
You still have questions, write.

Thank you very much for the video course. To do according to the written recipe and what he saw is a big difference. The question immediately arose: should the dough for rye bread be of such a fluid consistency or should it still be a bun?

And what does Panifarin consist of?

If the desire to buy Panifarin remains irresistible,
then there is also pure gluten and ascorbic acid on sale,
which is several times cheaper.
It is certainly possible to overpay for marketing and packaging, but not very happy.
You still have questions, write.

How much should pure gluten (called gluten) cost? I bought it at BREAD HOUSE, gluten is really 1.5 times cheaper, but it's still expensive. I would like to know the optimum. And how much ascorbic acid to add to this gluten (for example, per teaspoon of gluten?)
And one more thing: leavened wort. which is sold in a half-liter can. as in Soviet times. replaces malt? This can costs as much as 1 package of kvass, and this package, as I understand it, is only enough for 2 times.