Sourdough bread in the oven

[bagirra225]

bagirra225

uuuppssss, I sympathize with you. You will have to adapt to life with such medical contraindications. Baking bread with one leaven is not as difficult as it seems at the very beginning of the journey. You write that you are growing MC ferment ... if there are problems with the gastrointestinal tract and there is absolutely no experience in handling ferments, dough, etc., then it will be hard with it. In MK leaven, acidity rapidly increases; due to inexperience, bread can turn out to be very sour. You can't store it at room temperature, store it in the refrigerator - I don't want to ... I didn't work out with it in due time. I can't help you in handling this leaven.

1. On the forum, bread baked exclusively with sourdough is not very popular, most recipes contain dry or pressed yeast in the composition. In this regard, I wonder how to recalculate the amount of sourdough from "yeast" recipes in relation to my situation? Maybe there are some approximate proportions? I vaguely guess that it will not work stupidly to "convert" the yeast into the leaven. Probably, the time factor should be taken into account. Since yeast speeds up the process, it will take more time to make "leaven-only bread".
Or is it enough to follow your recommendation from the original "master class" and skip the "yeast" item when kneading the dough, giving the final proofing to a 2-fold increase?

Most recipes contain scanty amounts of yeast solely to make life easier and speed up the process.

There is no need to recalculate yeast for sourdough. To bake sourdough bread, you need to go the other way - by dough with sourdough or by using the sourdough itself (very fresh, not peroxidized) as a dough. For example, if according to the recipe we need 500 g of flour, then we introduce about 200 g through the sourdough or dough.

To begin with, you can use my recipe at the beginning of the topic, this is the sponge way, just exclude yeast from the recipe, otherwise go strictly according to the recipe, except for the last point. This is where the bread before baking should be spaced to increase by 2 times. It will take longer than indicated.

2. Is the "final proofing" in the specified recipe 50 minutes for pre-fermentation?
3. Does the "eternal" leaven also contain MC bacteria or not? There, in the original composition, flour and water.

2. In the recipe, first there is a preliminary fermentation of the dough - 50 minutes, then - the addition of salt-oil and the final kneading, then - a 20-minute rest. You can leave all this unchanged. Then you mold the bread and send it to the final proofing. It is precisely this increase in the formed dough piece by 2 times that is the final proofing before baking. It will take you about 1.5 hours, depending on many factors.

3. Any leaven contains microbacteria and eternal too. They die from storage at low temperatures. If you kept yours in the refrigerator below + 10 *, then it makes sense to grow a new one.

Good luck to you and the kids)) Ask if something remains unclear.

Oh, Zest! Thank you very much for your reply. I feel like a blind kitten. Here everyone understands each other perfectly ... And I have only questions
In general, I would like to deal with the least whimsical sourdough. In MK, I did not resist. I'll try, and then how it goes. Is sour bread probably not healthy?
It is not clear to me why MK bacteria multiply in the leaven, die in the refrigerator, and then cannot repopulate in the same leaven - but new ones, if you take care of the leaven. What processes are going on there?

And I, too, do not understand about MK leaven, if micron bacteria die in it, then it will not bubble and grow? I understand correctly? but practice shows something else ... I have it in the refrigerator ... and in the topic about MK leaven there are reports that it is even frozen in portions and after defrosting its properties do not change ... or the death of MK bacteria does not affect the properties ferments (growth and bubbling), but affect the beneficial and nutritional properties (benefits for our body)?

This is how wild yeast remains, and so it grows. And you rightly said about the nutritional value and usefulness, this will not happen.

Oh, Zest! Thank you very much for your reply. I feel like a blind kitten. Here everyone understands each other perfectly ... And I have only questions
In general, I would like to deal with the least whimsical sourdough. In MK, I did not resist. I'll try, and then how it goes. Is sour bread probably not healthy?
It is not clear to me why MK bacteria multiply in the leaven, die in the refrigerator, and then cannot repopulate in the same leaven - but new ones, if you take care of the leaven. What processes are going on there?

I am not a microbiologist and not a biochemist in order to monitor the death and revival of MK bacteria in a laboratory way. As I got carried away with sourdough baking, I began to read everything that came to hand on this topic. I perceive as an axiom the statement that MC bacteria die at temperatures below
+ 10 *. However, wild yeast continue to feel great and multiply with equal constancy and enjoyment. Whoever doubts it will raise the bread.
But the photos posted in Ludmila's LJ were enough for me to refuse storing the sourdough in the refrigerator. She empirically tested how the cooled sourdough affects the structure of the crumb and crust, as well as the taste of bread. Unfortunately, many materials were not preserved in this LJ. Therefore, you can only take our word for it that the difference was more than significant - thicker and coarser crust, uninteresting crumb, insufficient rise, accordingly, and the taste lagged behind by several orders of magnitude.
If at the beginning of her observations on different leavens Lyudmila still admitted the idea that after prolonged rejuvenation of the leaven from the refrigerator (by the way, in terms of labor costs equivalent to removing a new leaven), MK bacteria can be revived, then with the acquisition of sufficiently rich experience she completely rejected this possibility ... I came to the conclusion that freshening the sourdough from the refrigerator will not help bring back its unique taste and aroma.
If such an option suits someone so that only wild yeast picks up the bread, then no one insists on anything else. I made my choice. Each of us also has it.

In the correct starter culture, a symbiosis of lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast is formed. MC bacteria feed on by-products of yeast fermentation and, in turn, make the culture more acidic by releasing lactic acid, which prevents the yeast from deteriorating (since most microbes cannot survive in an acidic environment).
It was these starters that enriched the body with organic acids, vitamins, minerals, enzymes, fiber, mucus, pectin, biostimulants.

What would be the use of a leaven with wild yeast alone, I do not know. I like the complete product more.

Is sour bread probably not healthy?

If you have problems with the gastrointestinal tract, it probably makes sense to consult a doctor on this topic. Excessive acidity is unlikely to be beneficial.

And I, too, do not understand about MK leaven, if micron bacteria die in it, then it will not bubble and grow? I understand correctly? but practice shows something else ... I have it in the refrigerator ... and in the topic about MK leaven there are reports that it is even frozen in portions and after defrosting its properties do not change ... Or does the death of micronutrients not affect the properties of the leaven (growth and bubbling), but rather affect the beneficial nutritional properties (benefits for our body)?

Wild yeast grows remarkably well even in refrigerated environments.

I have vague doubts about the preservation of the beneficial properties of starter cultures after freezing, but I read positive reviews about drying. But why such extremes? Unless, when selling and mailing some special exotic varieties that cannot be brought out at home. Otherwise I see no point. Removing such starter cultures from suspended animation takes no less time and effort than growing a new starter culture from scratch.

[bagirra225]

bagirra225

I stumbled upon the information about MK-leaven in my storehouses. If you are raising it, it may be interesting:

"Sourdough from flour with curdled milk definitely needs to be stored in the refrigerator. Otherwise it will rot. Curdled milk itself does not interfere and does not help the creation of a typical bread sourdough, because completely different lactic acid bacteria live in the sourdough, not like in curdled milk. yeast The starter microorganisms do not eat milk sugar, etc.

On the other hand, during the first hours of fermentation, young sourdough sourdough made from white flour can help create an acidic environment that sterilizes the sourdough dough from unwanted microorganisms, such as mold spores and E. coli, which are always present in flour. "

Well, draw your own conclusions.

This is how wild yeast remains, and so it grows. And you rightly said about the nutritional value and usefulness, this will not happen.

I do not know of course how useful bread with wild yeast is, but I think that it is much better than thermophilic bread.
I bake with eternal sourdough and store it in the refrigerator otherwise it over-oxidizes, bread raises amazingly, and most importantly, now there is no heartburn from bread, the digestive tract began to work normally. I practically ended up with purchased yeast (I made an exception only for Easter - since I doubted that the sourdough would raise the baking, it turned out in vain - it would still raise it). By the way, in the refrigerator you can look for a place where the temperature is higher - I found this in the section where there should be eggs, the only thing is that you cannot put food from the freezer in the refrigerator, the temperature drops sharply.

[THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR SUPPORTING NEWBOY !!!]

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR SUPPORTING NEWBOY !!!
And again I have a question: if I decided to specialize in sourdough bread, then I don't need HP?

I use HP for kneading and fermentation. And I also began to make bread like this, I take a half dose (Raisin recipe), knead-rest-knead-proofing-baking for 1 hour. I made it on rye sourdough and wheat, and it turns out very tasty bread.
My husband really likes the shape, a low brick, very convenient for sandwiches.

And again I have a question: if I decided to specialize in sourdough bread, then I don't need HP?

very much even needed. It is needed as a kneader, as a proofing cabinet, and you can also bake bread in it.
If time does not give me a breath, then I bake sourdough bread in a bread maker. With the addition of half the yeast, the bread is baked even in the Basic program, without manually lengthening the proofing periods.

You need to give up yeast altogether. Therefore, the following scheme is suitable (I do this when there is no time):

- load all the products according to the recipe into the bread maker and turn on the Dough;
- after the end of the program, leave the contents in the bucket until it is fully lifted;
- turn on the Baking.

With my Kevud only on a semi-manual mode, it is possible, for example, for me the dough mode is 30 minutes kneading and 1 hour rise. It takes a long time for mixing, so you have to turn on and off HP, but somehow I already got the hang of it

I called the store and said to wait a month, if not more ... So I just have to contemplate your bread.

oooh, what a pity. Well, nothing, you then tell, tell more, and we will turn on the imagination

[Ayn]

Sourdough rye bread from Ayn
This source is known to many here, by the way, it is now closed for public access.
I don’t remember whether the girls did it or not.
I have been going to try this bread for a long time. I liked it, there was a minimum of sourness.
The original recipe.
Opara

1/2 cup cool water
1/2 tbsp barley malt or honey used malt
9-oz / 255-g rye sourdough
1/3 cup whole wheat flour
1/2 cup rye flour

Dough
dough
1 cup of apple juiceI used serum
1/2 cup rye flour
2 1 / 2-3 cups whole wheat flour 2 1/2 cups
1-2 tablespoons gluten (gluten) did not use
2 tbsp wheat bran (optional) rye
1/2 tablespoon sea salt
added 2 tbsp. l. flax and sesame.

Mix all the ingredients for the dough in a large bowl, cover
Wash with a film and put in a cool place for 24 hours, after 8-12 hours - stir (if the room is very warm, then leave the dough in the room for 8-12 hours, and put it in the refrigerator for the remaining time).I put it on the balcony for the night, t about 12-15 degrees
1. Add the remaining ingredients to the dough except salt (do not add all the wheat flour at once), knead the dough with your hands - 5 minutes or with a mixer - 2 minutes (I do not recommend kneading in a bread maker, since the dough is sticky).
2. Cover the dough with foil and leave for 20 minutes. Add salt and continue mixing for another 8-10 minutes. The dough is soft and slightly sticky.
3. Grease a large bowl with vegetable oil, put the dough in the bowl, cover with plastic and leave for 2-3 hours until doubled.

4. Put the dough on a floured table, crush slightly, wrap the edges inward, turn over, cover with a plastic wrap or a bowl in which it was allowed to stand and leave for 15 minutes.
5. Shape the dough into a round or oval loaf (shape like a round and then roll it slightly into an oval) and place in a basket or in a sieve covered with a towel, seam up and sprinkle well with flour or on a floured baking sheet seam down.
6. Cover with foil and leave for 1-2 hours, until doubled.
Preheat oven to 260 ° C / 500 ° F 30 minutes before baking.

The recipe is interesting, but can you translate the cups into grams? 1 measuring cup = 240g or how much?

[Yuliki]

Yuliki

The bread is amazingly beautiful and the crumb is just a dream

Recipes Ayn I tried, but I get a complete mismatch in the time of proofing. You have to cut it mercilessly if you don't want to end up with a lot of sourdough instead of a ready-to-bake dough.

What sourdough did you take for this recipe? I see that you only left the dough on the balcony for the night, and then what? So it withstood all the time that is indicated in the recipe or shortened?

The recipe is interesting, but can you translate the cups into grams? 1 measuring cup = 240g or how much?

1 cup - 240 ml, this is 150 g of wheat flour, 130 g of rye flour.

Very interesting!

1. The first is a recipe for French bread from Pears. I generally put it on the timer.

450 g flour
250 ml sparkling water
30 g butter
2/3 tsp yeast
1 tbsp. l. Sahara
2 tsp salt
200 g sourdough (100%)

You put it in a bucket in the order that is recommended for your c / n, I have the leaven between flour and water, set the program French bread and that's it. It saves very much with an exceptional time pressure.

2. The second recipe is a variation on the Sitnoy theme. This is in the event that you need to attach a large amount of leaven. This bread is obtained under the Main Program. But it turns out better if you first pass through the dough, let it rise to the maximum, and then bake.

Instead of dough for this bread, I take 400 g of sourdough (100%).
250 g flour (the first time you need to follow the bun, you may need more),
1 tsp salt
2 tbsp. l. Sahara
70 g water
0.5 tsp yeast.

These are the recipes that save me in cases of emergency.

Zest, and how long does the French regime take? My average is 3:22.

[Zest!]

Zest! Thank you! But this is all with yeast ... These recipes will not work without yeast?

[Zest!]

Zest, and how long does the French regime take? My average is 3:22.

French - 6 hours. If we take away the notorious temperature equalization, then 4-5 hours will remain, it will depend on the temperature in the room.

What does 100% sourdough mean?

This is a leaven in which the amounts of flour and water are equal in weight.

Zest! Thank you! But this is all with yeast ... These recipes will not work without yeast?

They will do. But they will no longer fit into the framework of the standard program. We'll have to follow the scheme Dough - Rise to the required volume - Baking.

This is a leaven in which the amounts of flour and water are equal in weight.

For example, 100 g sourdough, 100 g flour and 100 g water? Am I getting it right?

[Sveta]

Sveta

Starter cultures can be made of very different moisture content - from completely liquid to coolly kneaded dough. The ratio of flour to water in the leaven determines its moisture content.

If you feed 10 g of starter culture of any moisture with equal amount of flour and water, you will get 100% starter culture.

For example, 100 g sourdough, 100 g flour and 100 g water? Am I getting it right?

If you took 100 g of 100% starter culture, then that's right.
If 100 g of sourdough is in the form of a hard dough, then at the end you will get a sourdough that will contain more flour than water.

Usually, each recipe takes into account how much flour and water is introduced into the dough along with the sourdough, therefore either the moisture content of the sourdough is specifically indicated, or it is specified exactly how much flour is introduced with the sourdough.

In the recipe I was talking about, I introduce 100 g of flour and 100 g of water as a sourdough.

Duc already wrote

write something, thank you, but questions still remain.
About leaven. I also translate a Frenchwoman into rye for one top dressing. I also feed in large proportions and leave until ripe (usually overnight).
But what about the quantity? In her recipe, Ayn does not specify the moisture content of the starter. Did you take (come on "you", tired of "pumping out") the same weight as hers in the recipe, but 100% leaven? Or the doughty ringleader?

And yesterday, looking at me, I baked such a handsome man



I came to the conclusion that apart from the correct shaping, it is necessary to stand for a longer time.

Yesterday I ran around all the nearest pharmacies: believe it or not, but pure ascorbic acid is not on sale - all with dyes and orange flavors.

What a handsome man!
As for ascorbic acid, you can try it in the prescription departments. So, which is in large tablets, 90 percent of starch. But I think it's a matter of flour, if the flour is not very good, no ascorbic acid will help.

[Zest]

Thanks, Zest.
kava, indeed, a beautiful loaf. What kind of bread is this?

Girls, I'm shocked!
Made Rye again from Ayn. The dough was kept for 12 hours in the refrigerator at 10 degrees. Then my mother pulled her out, and I got home 2 hours later. the leaven was literally boiling. I kneaded the dough, an hour and a half has passed, I look at it with all my might, I only stood in the basket for an hour.
How soft it turned out! And most importantly, one and a half or two times more in volume!

🔗

something radical does not work today, click on the photo to enlarge

[Yuliki]

Yuliki

what a good bread!

And why are you in shock? From the "greyhound" of the Frenchwoman?

It turned out Here is such a handsome wheat-rye with sourdough, I came out today


like that after proofing


and this is already ready

Now I can see myself that I seem to have done everything right.

Girls SPIBISCHE you huge for help. Without you, I probably would not have mastered the sourdough bread. Zest, baked what is called by eye, but something like this

230 ml water
200 g wheat flour
150 g rye flour
120g sourdough (I didn't have it anymore)
5g yeast (fresh)
1/2 tbsp. l. malt
1 st. l. sugar (or honey)
1/2 tbsp. l. gluten free
1/2 tbsp. l. ground coriander and cumin (optional)

At the end of the batch I added
1 tbsp. l. vegetable oil
1 tsp salt

Kneading and proofing in HP (1 h 30 min). Forming, proofing for 1 hour. Baked in the oven - 15 minutes at maximum and 35 minutes at 180 *.

Here's a cutaway (still warm)

Well, now, I dreamed, worked and, it seems, the dream has come true !!!
Here's my Parisian Whole Grain from L. Poliane:



I can't show it in the context yet - it's not cold.

So I'm wondering how much bread my family can eat in a day. I baked SIMPLE for dinner, almost finished eating until evening. Then the dark one arrived, half of them were sentenced. An embarrassment happened to him. Due to chronic lack of sleep ... I put him to proofing in a 3.5 liter glass roaster and dozed off. I wake up, and the bread has risen and stuck to the lid (not the first time already, I can't find more in volume). In general, while the roof was torn off, the bread fell slightly ... But delicious!

[bagirra225]

bagirra225

it is you here recently said that you rarely bake because of your inability and cannot master the leaven?
Your bread - simply in a professional performance We have achieved tremendous success in such a short time!
Now I am calm for you and your children - they are provided with healthy and tasty bread on the table

Girls, I have the impression that everyone seemed to have something "clicked", the "I can't do it" line ended abruptly, and like beautiful breads fell from a cornucopia one after another. Soul rejoices for you

himichka

As practice shows, there is never too much good bread. He wants to eat and eat, even without anything, just like a tasty dish

[bagirra225]

bagirra225

it is you here recently said that you rarely bake because of your inability and cannot master the leaven?
Your bread - simply in a professional performance We have achieved tremendous success in such a short time!
Now I am calm for you and your children - they are provided with healthy and tasty bread on the table

Thank you for your kind words, Zest!
I am still Ooooooooooo far from mastery. I don’t pry, I just see how much others know and can do. This comes with experience, but it is not enough yet. But my breakthrough really happened. Confidence came, because it began to work out
I have one, but a global problem - my oven. No temperature gradation. NO designations at all! I warm it up by intuition. Very problematic!

And here is my cut:

[bagirra225]

bagirra225

The main thing is that confidence in your abilities has come, and experience is a gain

I see that we have similar problems with crumb in this bread, I also baked it today. Apparently, the consistency of the dough is somewhat deceptively perceived on the roller, and in the end we make it much cooler than necessary. Now I will show bread in the theme of Parisian whole grain.
We liked the taste of the bread, we have already sentenced half of it (this is from 1 kg to 300 g of total weight), I will put the dough again today, but I will try to make the dough more moist. The crumb should become less "knocked down".

I have, of course, not Paris, but in a country style, with dispersed wheat grain. I bake it once a week, very soft, airy. The leaven pleases.

What a handsome man, and even in "freckles" Is the recipe possible?

[himichka]

And I came to brag
Today I made focaccia with rosemary and olives in 100% French sourdough.
She put the dough on the balcony for the night (13-15 degrees). I replaced 100g of premium flour with whole grain. Everything else is prescription.
The focaccia was ready for dinner. And this is what is left after lunch.

Very tasty hot sandwiches with cheese
himichka , the bread is super. I also really want a recipe for this. I really respect dispersed grain !!!

Well, first of all, I give an honest pioneer that as soon as I release my 11th, that is, from July 1, I will sit down at the computer and learn how to upload photos, otherwise the poor child would not let go to sleep while our turtle-computer "turtle" ... Speed ​​is horror! The recipe is approximate, I'm already looking for it by eye.

Soaked 120 g of wheat per day. Today I ground it in a blender with water, it turned out 470g. I diluted 7g of pressed yeast with 8g of sugar and 15g of water, 280g of sourdough (I have it 100% grape, added about 380g of wheat flour, a pinch of gluten (you can do without it), kneaded the soft dough for 5 minutes in KM Kenwood and left for 40 minutes. Then I added 2 teaspoons of salt and 2 tablespoons of rast.butter, kneaded and left for another 40 minutes. She formed the bread, put it in a greased glass duck. I have it 3.5 liters in volume, it is too small, so the oven under the lid, as expected, does not usually work, I chronically add more, and the dough rests on the lid even before baking. Proofing today for 1.5 hours. I put the duck in the oven, heat it up to 220 degrees for 15 minutes, then lower it to 190. I baked for about 50 minutes, I just didn't see it, I checked the readiness with a thermometer.
As per Viki, if you're interested, I'll open a separate topic tomorrow.

... tomorrow I'll open a separate topic.

Exactly! Such bread must be a separate topic for sure. I am sure that many will want to bake it. We are waiting for the "recipe in the studio" (c)

girls, my dear ones, here this topic has gradually turned into a kind of "black hole", which draws in wonderful recipes. It's time to take them out into the light of day and bring them out into people
Here, in between, I stamped a couple of recipes on sourdough for cotton, completely not attaching any importance to this, as it turned out later, these recipes are searched for and baked according to them

We stored here, like hamsters by the cheeks, interesting recipes, and no one except us sees them. And the topic is already so bloated that it will burst soon

Let's make everyone feel comfortable. Since this topic has acquired the orientation of a "training", so we will discuss in it general questions and problems that arise when baking bread in the oven, handling sourdough, etc. The master class, from which everything started here, I will postpone in the form of a simple bread recipe into a separate topic, it is desirable for all other participants in this temka to pull their recipes into self-sufficient units, and here we will discuss general issues.
How do you look at this?

[Finding the Difference Between Sourdough and Dough]

Finding the Difference Between Sourdough and Dough

The line separating the leaven from the dough is very conditional, but it is still there.

Sourdough is a composition that causes fermentation, in a narrower sense - any organic substance, the introduction of which into the food environment causes the fermentation process.

"Dough is fermented dough seasoned with yeast or sourdough."

Sourdough dough is, in essence, always sponge dough.

Now about the essence of the difference between leaven and dough.

At the beginning of the process of growing sourdough in it, about forty species of IBC and more than a dozen species of wild yeast start a war. By the end of this process, the strongest ones survive and create a certain symbiosis in the finished sourdough - only two or three types of MK bacteria and wild yeast, which will determine the performance characteristics of your particular sourdough (lift, aroma, etc.). Even by growing several starters according to the same recipe, you can get starters of different quality. After a stable symbiosis of microorganisms has been established in the leaven, it can remain stable for many months and years (subject to proper storage and feeding), no microorganisms "from the outside" will take root here, they will be doomed to displacement and extinction. Lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast will constantly sterilize the starter culture from unwanted microbes, releasing alcohol, as well as acetic and lactic acid during its fermentation. A real little world that protects itself from outside intrusions!

The sourdough is used as a source of organic acids and modified flour protein.

Bezoparnoe dough - the most deprived in this sense, it lacks taste and aroma, products from such dough quickly stale.

Sponge dough is a completely different song, with a deep taste and aroma, products from it do not stale much longer. And all thanks to the fact that they contain 2 times more organic acids.

A ripe starter culture (which has risen to its peak of growth) contains 20 times more various organic acids, and an acidic concentrated starter culture (the one that is allowed to ripen after about 12 hours after softening) - even more. Therefore, the addition of these starter cultures can greatly improve the quality of the dough-free dough.

Happy owners of sourdoughs have a huge advantage over "horseless" housewives - the ability to take ripe sourdough instead of dough in the sponge dough at any time, and add the peroxidized sourdough to the safe dough, resulting in aromatic, tasty, long-lasting products.

So, I would conclude that the sourdough differs from the sourdough by a higher concentration of organic acids and their diversity, as well as by the stability of the resulting symbiosis of microorganisms. We can easily replace the dough with sourdough, but on the contrary, it is already quite problematic. Rather, it is not problematic, but will require some work on growing sourdough-based sourdough culture.

Oh, I didn't want to write for so long, but in the process of answering myself, it became interesting to understand the differences between leaven and dough.

If the leaven is stored at temp. below + 10 *, then all MK bacteria die out, only wild yeast remains to multiply. The starter cultures stored in the refrigerator are always deprived in terms of MC bacteria and a variety of organic acids. They do not impart to products the same deep bread aroma and taste as the leavens, which are fed and stored according to all the rules of art.

I ask you to take into account the moment that I am not a microbiologist, and I try to draw all conclusions from the point of view of the rudiments of knowledge on this subject and elementary logic

Here I am, with bread. Baked on flour 2 grades plus 2 tbsp. l bran, I read on the forum that if there is no whole grain, such a combination is possible.
But with the leaven, the puncture came out, I put it on the upper shelf, I have +10 there, and my husband moved it to another. I saw it too late. Probably a catastrophe ... the taste of the bread is not the same ... some kind of insipid something ...

logically, it is not necessary to add bran, but wheat germs, in order to get whole grain from the 2nd grade.

If the leaven is stored at temp. below + 10 *, then all MK bacteria die out, only wild yeast remains to multiply. The starter cultures stored in the refrigerator are always deprived in terms of MC bacteria and a variety of organic acids.
I ask you to take into account the moment that I am not a microbiologist, and I try to draw all conclusions from the point of view of the rudiments of knowledge on this subject and elementary logic

Zest! Do not think what is bad, but where does such specific information about 10 * come from? What are you referring to?

logically, it is not necessary to add bran, but wheat germs, in order to get whole grain from the 2nd grade.

It was written that you need to add bran ...