Classic rye homemade bread in a bread maker

Good day to all.

I have a question about this very sourdough - it's normal that for the first few hours it rose very actively, and even got out of the can (I did not calculate with the volume of dishes), and then, after a couple of hours, it fell and does not rise again. All this in bubbles, smells sour, but does not rise anymore.

Thank you in advance for your response.

absolutely normal, the first time there was the same situation, everything got out of the bank and then it calmed down

Thanks Makk, you put me at ease

So, as we finish the first loaf of white bread, let's start with rye, because we love it more.

About the results, if anyone is interested, I will write.

[The amount of water "taken" by the dough depends on the quality of the flour, in particular on the amount of gluten, in general, proteins - the more gluten, the "stronger" the flour and the more water it can "accept".]

Smart literature says nothing about such an effect? The lump of wheat-rye flour seems to have rolled, it is dry under the mixer, but about five minutes before the end of the kneading, it suddenly spreads out, a batter appears under the mixer.

There were not so many clever literature and thoughts aloud, where the subtleties of our business and dough kneading would be described in detail.
But I caught the principle and even tried it, the results are encouraging, I am working on. Unfortunately, problems with the x / stove, I have a temporary downtime.
So what I learned. Partly I write in my own words, but somewhere from books.
There is a difference when kneading dough when it is suggested: - "pour water into flour", and "add flour to water". What is the difference?
Pour water into flour and knead the dough, but it turned out to be more dense than necessary, add water, but the dough will not "take" water so easily, it will become sticky on the surface and stick to the sides of the bowl, then you need to add flour. With this kneading technology, the dough is often denser and almost impossible to fix. The amount of water "taken" by the dough depends on the quality of the flour, in particular on the amount of gluten, in general, proteins - the more gluten, the "stronger" the flour and the more water it can "accept".
In this case, isn't it better to deliberately make the dough initially thinner and gradually (!!!) add flour to it until we reach the desired consistency?
Therefore, it is more logical to prepare the entire liquid part (water with yeast, sugar, salt, eggs dissolved in it) and gradually, while stirring, introduce a slightly less amount of flour at first, look at the result and add a little flour, if necessary.
Comment from yourself.
We sort of figured out with white flour and learned how to form a bun, it contains more gluten. By the way, "smart people" define the readiness of a kolobok in this way. Freshly kneaded, unpaired yeast dough (but not fermented) is similar in consistency to the density of an earlobe. Try and compare.
Rye flour is a completely different matter when there is no gluten of its own, or when even a mixture with wheat flour. We've all already got caught on a rye "lump" that can't be pulled out of a cotton bucket, and even adding water does not help, outside it is wet, inside it is an early dry lump. Rye flour does not take water !!! Here, the second variant of kneading will be preferable, when "flour into water"
I kneaded rye bread from mixed flour by hand according to the "flour in water" rule, first in a bowl for 10-15 minutes, until a bun of the desired consistency was obtained, and only then I put the whole blank in a cotton bucket and put it on a given mode, and then everything was as usual ... Only the workpiece needs to be made a little denser, because when the cotton starts to beat it off, it becomes softer than necessary.
Even the first experiment was generally a success. The dough turned out, the baked goods too.One more thing - you need to add flour not one by one (white then rye), but make a mixture of flour in a bowl, mix and add as much water as required, then the proportions of flour according to the recipe will remain.
These are my searches and experiments. Try it and you will appreciate it.

Thank you for such a detailed explanation.

In this case, isn't it better to deliberately make the dough initially thinner and gradually (!!!) add flour to it until we reach the desired consistency?

I have a Panasonic 207 and the problem is that it doesn't have enough power to knead a tough dough. Therefore, I try to do so if the recipe is not worked out.

Only the workpiece needs to be made a little denser, because when the cotton starts to beat it off, it becomes softer than necessary.

That is why it is getting softer, and as a consequence, how to deal with it was the crux of the matter. No problem to make the dough tough, the problem is to stir the dough with Panasonic. Find the edge (signs) where the dough is steep enough and the machine is not overstrained.

... outside it is wet, inside it is an early dry lump.

This is not the case, you can see how the mixer shovels a homogeneous mass.

I kneaded rye bread from mixed flour manually according to the "flour in water" rule, first in a bowl for 10-15 minutes

And now I put dough in the morning, come home from work and bake. This allows you to get a flat, not collapsed roof with batter. And the stove is not overstrained during mixing - such is the compromise.

Well, here we have baked our own rye bread.

Girls and boys are just a song. I didn’t even expect it to be so great !!!
The dough was kneaded perfectly, at first it seemed to me that the dough was slightly liquid, a little stuck to the walls, but then my viewing window fogged up so that I would not peep, I calmed down and left the stove to figure out this whole process for itself.

All ingredients were laid according to the recipe, no more, no less. Of course, I sifted the flour.

The color is gorgeous, the taste is delicious. Unfortunately, I forgot to upload pictures so that you all can see this masterpiece of baking :-)

In general, I advise everyone to try Dentist rye bread.

By the way, Dentist, thank you very much for such a wonderful recipe.

Thank you for such a detailed explanation.
I have a Panasonic 207 and the problem is that it doesn't have enough power to knead a tough dough. Therefore, I try to do so if the recipe is not worked out.
That is why it is getting softer, and as a consequence, how to deal with it was the crux of the matter. No problem to make the dough tough, the problem is to knead the dough with Panasonic. Find the edge (signs) where the dough is steep enough and the machine is not overstrained. This is not the case, you can see how the mixer shovels a homogeneous mass.
And now I put dough in the morning, come home from work and bake. This allows you to get a flat, not collapsed roof with a batter. And the stove is not overstrained during mixing - such is the compromise.

In order not to repeat myself, since there is a lot to write, see my recipe for rye bread from Admin (recipe "forum, yeast bread" 05.13. Time 21-40), that's where I changed the dough kneading technology, namely "flour into water", then back to the conversation, if you deem it necessary. In any case, I personally understood a lot for myself. I will try more options.

In order not to repeat myself, since there is a lot of writing ...

In response to a specific question, it was possible to limit oneself to one sentence like: "Why does the lump become softer in the process of kneading in the clever books read?"
As for your recipe (by the way, the links are good direct ones), I have no problems with baking with a ratio of wheat to rye flour of 2: 1. A couple of times I baked such bread with the addition of sourdough - the bread went up under the roof without any dancing around the stove. But mine don't like it - gray. I don’t use tints, such as coffee-cocoa, in principle.
As for the technology itself, there is a rational grain in it. But it doesn’t solve my problem with the machine.

[But my head itself came to this by experience, including from the books I read. And I never licked the recipe into a notebook. Therefore, he is dear to me!]

In response to a specific question, it was possible to limit oneself to one sentence like: "Why does the lump become softer in the process of kneading in the clever books read?"
As for your recipe (by the way, the links are good direct ones), I have no problems with baking with a ratio of wheat to rye flour of 2: 1. A couple of times I baked such bread with the addition of sourdough - the bread went up under the roof without any dancing around the stove. But mine don't like it - gray. I don’t use tints, such as coffee-cocoa, in principle.
As for the technology itself, there is a rational grain in it. But it doesn’t solve my problem with the machine.

But my head itself came to this by experience, including from the books I read. And I never licked the recipe into a notebook. Therefore, he is dear to me! If you do not share my point of view, this is what is called "your problems". You asked - I gave an answer in good faith, why now to offend me with this fact.
Do not consider my speech as an emotional attack, I expressed my personal opinion.
By the way, direct links from "smart books" to several pages and from several authors, including explanations and comments, I immediately warned that I was giving the very essence, if someone would be interested, I would not mind to name the authors, their names are heard, why hide something.

[Aglo]

Aglo By the way, Lola also makes rye bread in two modes, first beats it in dough mode, then in normal mode (see her recipes).
I do almost the same thing, only first the first kneading with my hands, then I will try it in the car (you just feel better with your hands).
It mixes better in this way bread rye dough, since it is still heavier than wheat in structure, and thus the formation of a bun is better controlled. Much depends on the ratio of the amount of rye and wheat flour. Then the workpiece will not float in water, etc. The dough will be thoroughly mixed in advance from all sides - both inside and outside.
We all fail to tell the truth very often. We bake bread, take pictures even in section, everything is beautiful, airy, we rejoice, and inside the bread may not be baked in quality (although it is not visible until you touch it). Especially with rye bread. Now they will object to me and prove that "personally, I have never had such a thing," that I stipulate everyone on the forum, etc. It has been and will be! It depends on many factors, and they can only be prevented by controlling the batch. In this no one will dissuade me, and it is not necessary. Only how to track the batch - options are possible, one of which is mine, the second is with Lola. Those who wish to share their experience, only without becoming personal, and without offending colleagues.

I am, of course, sorry. I had no intention of offending you.

But my head itself came to this by experience, including from the books I read. And I never licked the recipe into a notebook.

I did not have any suspicions about borrowing. The fault seems to be a poorly constructed phrase. Direct links meant links to the post "(recipe" forum, yeast bread "05.13. Time 21-40)" - agree, it's inconvenient.

Two mixes are really good. I use it; it makes no sense to keep the dough for another 1-1.5 hours in the bucket - you need to mix it right away.

Peace and friendship forever!

O 'kay!

Good afternoon Dentist! Please tell me in what order to put all the ingredients according to your recipe (I have an LG stove). Maybe tea first, and then flour?

[Dentist]

Dentist, brought you another Thank you very much !!!

The bread is wonderful !!!

The only thing I allowed myself to change was to add a spoonful of vegetable oil. We eat bread slowly, I was afraid that without butter it would quickly become stale.



I cut it, as always, hot, that's why it shines on the cut

People, what kind of classic rye is he, if coffee, cocoa and tea are poured into it?

I suspect that "Classic" does not mean that it is prepared according to the classic (ie.old recipe), but due to the fact that it has the most approximate appearance and taste to classic black rye bread.

In fact, the recipe is very cool. We kept the leaven in the refrigerator, well, about 2 months - for sure. I thought that nothing would come of it. But no - although the bread did not rise as much as with fresh sourdough, it still turned out to be very, very tasty. We only bake it now.

I suspect that "Classic" does not mean that it is prepared according to a classic (ie, an old-fashioned recipe), but because it has the closest look and taste to classic black rye bread.

In fact, the recipe is very cool. We kept the leaven in the refrigerator, well, about 2 months - for sure. I thought that nothing would come of it. But no - although the bread did not rise as much as with fresh sourdough, it still turned out to be very, very tasty. We only bake it now.

Classic and cool are actually different concepts.
Classic - implies just the "classics" of baking, albeit not according to the old canons, but still the canons of "Russian bread". Real Russian bread is sourdough, wheat flour (rye, barley, buckwheat), water, malt, caraway seeds, and more additives - but never coffee, tea, cocoa.
Cool - means "good, tasty" - well, let it be tasty. Each of us bakes delicious (cool) bread, including those additives that we consider necessary for taste.

Hello! And I will join you in the company of lovers of homemade bread.
I have a panasonic sd 253 stove.
Just baked Dentist sourdough rye bread
But I have a suspicion that not everything turned out as it should be, so:
The bread turned out to be tasty, but not sufficiently risen, its appearance does not differ much from the dough-bun during the kneading process, the output weight is 500 g, according to the recipe it should be 1 kg, there are not very noticeable unbaked veins in the cut, but not much, it tastes very much even nothing, but as if a heaviness remains in the stomach, probably, nevertheless, they are damp!
Now for the procedure:
The leaven withstood the prescribed 18 hours, while at the time of raising the towel, it did not at all resemble sour cream from the bazaar - rather, gray fermented baked milk, although at the very beginning of the process it actively swelled and bubbled for 2 hours, and then everything was quiet. I kept it at normal kitchen temperature, and at night I took it to the bathroom and put it on heated floors, in general, tell me what is wrong here? thank you in advance!

It seems to me that everything worked out for you ... just rye bread tends to seem a little unbaked - this is the first thing! secondly, the leaven really bubbled up a lot at first, but then the fermentation process subsides - this is also normal! But I would like to ask - why did you choose this particular model? I, too, opted for it, but still not fully decided which one to buy? and more ... I am on this site for the first time ... can you tell me how to initially write a message here to discuss which bread makers are better? Thank you in advance!

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in..._smf&Itemid=26&board=21.0 - here is a link to discuss which model is better to choose, my husband was engaged in this issue, also having previously studied the Internet reviews! We are still just mastering the stove, of course, almost every new bread-at first "pancake lumpy", so now it seems. that something is wrong here Well, okay, let's experiment, but the sight of the leaven is embarrassing - it really is on the second day (when it is already sent to the refrigerator) - just a gray liquid, not at all airy and not porous? That is how it should be?

yes, the sourdough for rye bread is very interesting and unusual in itself ... and its appearance is not at all attractive ... but the bread is very tasty !!!

Classic and cool are actually different concepts.
Classic - implies just the "classics" of baking, albeit not according to the old canons, but still the canons of "Russian bread".Real Russian bread is sourdough, wheat flour (rye, barley, buckwheat), water, malt, caraway seeds, and other additives - but never coffee, tea, cocoa.
Cool - means "good, tasty" - well, let it be tasty. Each of us bakes delicious (cool) bread, including those additives that we consider necessary for taste.

Thanks for the clarification, but I think my education is enough to distinguish between "classic" and "cool".
If these two words are used in the 1st message, this does not mean that they are the same in meaning. If you have such an impression - excuse me, henceforth I will try to write more clearly.

I tested this recipe today. I did everything as written.

The loaf came out very low (8 cm) and during the kneading there was a feeling that there was not enough liquid. I read that a rye bun should not be as elastic as a wheat one, more sticky, but I have lindens to my hands, and there is no bucket to the walls.
and when falling out of the bucket, the knife remained in the loaf

Questions: to what height should you strive for a loaf?
the knife is stuck - is this normal or a disgrace?

yes, and also about my own loaf.

The crumb looks and tastes quite nice (color, softness, holes, elasticity, etc.)

The sides of the loaf turned brown in two places to black (closer to the bottom)

Thank you very much Dentist for your recipe!
The sourdough turned out, it works great!
But so far I have not been able to taste rye bread according to your recipe. Because my oven does not have a program called "rye bread". Tell me, if you please, what is the total time, baking time and does this program need to be warmed up (30 minutes)?

[Linka]

Linka , the Moulinex-2000 has a heating mode. Mode 4. I bake rye bread and it turns out very well!
And even better I get bread when I start in the "dough" mode in the 200th mode, this is 11, knead the dough and knead for 30 minutes, and then switch to the "Basic" mode 1 and further.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...topic=489.0
here is a post by Dusya Myshkina. It is very detailed and well written! And so I bake all the bread from rye flour. With various add-ons, custard and simple.

Using this recipe, I baked my first rye bread! It seems not bad - the color, taste - I liked it. But for some reason the loaf is low - 10 cm, the crumb is quite dense, it would be a little airy. And the dome after the last kneading turned out to be a little torn - and it was baked - I was afraid to bend it. But overall, the result was pleasing! I will improve further - I bought 10 kilos of rye flour!
Where do you get panifarin? In a grocery store, pharmacy, bakery?

Special thanks to Zhorzhevna for the tip!

But for some reason the loaf is low - 10 cm, the crumb is quite dense, it would have a little airiness. And the dome after the last batch turned out a little torn - and baked

Water or a seagull for 1-2 tbsp. l. more, there will be both airiness and an even dome.

Where do you get panifarin? In a grocery store, pharmacy, bakery?

In reality, only in Moscow, at VDNKh, the firm "Doma - Khleb" trades.
There have been forum posts about how to wash gluten, which is panifarin, from a regular dough. Look.

Good day!
For two weeks now I have been the proud owner of a bread machine.
Already twice baked bread according to the recipe suggested by Dentist. It turned out very tasty, the bread rose well, porous, soft ... in general, wonderful, only it rose sooo well these two times, and then at the beginning of baking the dome collapses and the appearance is not marketable at all. What to do, what is wrong? tell me!

Good day!
For two weeks now I have been the proud owner of a bread machine.
Already twice baked bread according to the recipe suggested by Dentist. It turned out very tasty, the bread rose well, porous, soft ... in general, wonderful, only it rose sooo well these two times, and then at the beginning of baking the dome collapses and the appearance is not marketable at all. What to do, what is wrong? tell me!

Yes it happens! as it turned out, it does not affect the taste.
Most often, a roof collapse occurs due to:
- an overabundance of yeast (especially if yeast was put in, and yeast from the heart with a pea).
- incorrect water / flour ratio.
- often and at the wrong time, the HP lid was opened to spy on the bread.

Recently I was baking this bread again, I needed a large loaf, I took a double portion. Only instead of sugar I put 1/2 tbsp on a double portion of products. l. honey and that's it, I don't like sweet bread and a few tablespoons of sunflower oil. Somehow I miscalculated the products ... in the process of kneading I had to add a little water ... But the bread turned out to be a fairy tale - flat, did not fall (otherwise I often have it), porous ... I also added sunflower seeds, I also like to add seeds flax or pine nuts - tasty and healthy.
Yes, and I forgot, I put dry yeast by a third less.

Yesterday I baked this bread for the second time. Everything is strictly according to the recipe.
I didn’t add any gram or water or flour and again an excellent result! And got up and baked. THANKS to the author! And the leaven
standing in the refrigerator, resting until the next bread.
It doesn't look very good, it smells bad, but it works.

Good evening! So I baked bread, thanks to Dentist for the recipe, I only have two questions, the bread turned out to be not tall (8 cm), but beautiful and tasty, is it so small and should it be?
And tell me, can you immediately put the leaven from the refrigerator in a bucket or you need to bring it to room temperature?
I attach a photo of bread

Good evening! So I baked bread, thanks to Dentist for the recipe, I only have two questions, the bread turned out to be not high (8 cm), but beautiful and tasty, is it that small and should it be?
And tell me, can you immediately put the leaven from the refrigerator in a bucket or you need to bring it to room temperature?
I attach a photo of bread

Look above on this page my post from October 26, the height in centimeters is the same)
By temperature - look in your program table, do you have time to equalize temperatures (or just pay attention - after turning on the stove immediately starts to knead or silently waits for about an hour)? if it is silent, put it out of the refrigerator, it will warm up to room temperature in an hour.

By temperature - look in your program table, do you have time to equalize temperatures (or just pay attention - after turning on the stove immediately starts to knead or silently waits for about an hour)? if it is silent, put it out of the refrigerator, it will warm up to room temperature in an hour.

There is temperature equalization, she started kneading today exactly an hour later, thanks for the answer.

put from the refrigerator, it will warm to room temperature in an hour.

But shouldn't the leaven first feed itself, wake up and rise?

Today I baked this hdebushek for the second time, it turned out to be 10 cm high - progress, thanks again for the recipe.

I made sourdough according to this recipe (rye flour, sugar, yeast, water). Within a few hours, the leaven rose, boiled, and then fell off. In general, after 18 hours there was a dried crust on it, and under it was a fallen leaven. I collected it and put it in the refrigerator, but, as I understand it, the experiment failed and it won't work? or so it should be? ... Maybe I did something wrong? Stood in a warm place, under the battery

I made sourdough according to this recipe (rye flour, sugar, yeast, water). Within a few hours, the leaven rose, boiled, and then fell off. In general, after 18 hours there was a dried crust on it, and under it was a fallen leaven. I collected it and put it in the refrigerator, but, as I understand it, the experiment failed and it won't work? or so it should be? ... Maybe I did something wrong? Stood in a warm place, under the battery

As I understand it, you have obtained a one-time yeast-based sourdough dough, which should be used immediately after rising.She's on leaps and bounds with sugar, they played a role in raising the dough and everything went out.
Remember how you put yeast wheat dough, first you make a liquid dough, where you add a little flour, sugar, water, yeast, all this should rise, and then knead the dough for pies on this dough.
So it is in this leavened dough. Such a disposable leaven is called "yeast leaven". Rodionova has written about this too, if you have such a book.

I don't know at all, maybe there is such a way of leavening, look at the original source where you read it.

I want to share a recipe for rye bread, which we bake almost every day and from which not only our family, but also all friends and relatives who tasted it, are delighted.
First you need to prepare the SQUARE

1 cup rye flour
1 table. l sugar
2 tea. l. yeast
add enough water to make a thin dough.

Withstand 18 hours in a warm place, covered with a towel (do not cover with a lid, otherwise you will collect the leaven throughout the kitchen, as we once did)
Then put it in the refrigerator until full use.

The bread itself: (weight 900g.-1kg.)

Dentist took the recipe from our site (1st page of this topic). Judging by the reviews, the members of the forum have already used this recipe, they are satisfied. They keep their leaven in the refrigerator, reusable. But I didn't succeed

Try again, it should work. I made a good sourdough. The first 5 hours she stood and was silent, and then she began to bubble and rise a little. After 18 hours, it rose not even 2 times, but somewhere in one and a half. It turned out to be an excellent bread. There is a sourdough in the refrigerator, the color is gray, the smell is disgusting, but it works perfectly !!!!

That is, when I put it in the refrigerator, it should be raised and bubbling? I will try again. And before using it, you need to somehow revive /?

Dentist took the recipe from our site (1st page of this topic). Judging by the reviews, the members of the forum have already used this recipe, they are satisfied. They keep their leaven in the refrigerator, reusable. But I didn't succeed

So we found the source and figured it out!

Do not be discouraged, try again and again if you really want to.

Good luck!

I also tried to bake this bread! Everything turned out the first time and the leaven (though a little it ran away from me), and the bread itself. Very tasty bread, and I eat it for several days - it does not stale, does not deteriorate, in general, fabulous!
The only thing that I corrected was the amount of sugar ... for me the first bread was sweetish! And so great!
Here it is ... delicious!

But shouldn't the leaven first feed itself, wake up and rise?

She sleeps very lightly even in the refrigerator. As it warms up, immediately wakes up hungry and probably angry, and eats already in the stove, after all, I pour delicious flour there! Immediately it becomes kind and for work - to raise bread! It turns out about 10cm. height, but delicious! I really like this bread!

People, good day to all!

Please help the nonsense! I don’t understand what a FLUID dough is!

First you need to prepare the SQUARE

1 cup rye flour
1 table. l sugar
2 tea. l. yeast
add enough water to make a thin dough.

Thanks in advance for your reply!

LIQUID dough drips off the spoon. Although everything is quite subjective.

[Power outlet]

Power outlet
Do you bake pancakes? Here is the dough.

[liquidish]

Thanks guys! In my heart, I guessed about it, but the posts about the fact that "if, when kneading the dough liquidish, you need to sprinkle flour on a tablespoon ... "somewhat shook my faith.

For two months now - I forgot what it means to buy white bread in the store, and loaves, and baguettes, and type of sliced ​​bread, class But my husband and I want a little black, ordinary, like in your recipe. Only I am a terrible housewife, I work a lot, I don't cook very much, I can somehow cope with the leaven (probably), but with the software of the stove, it's an ambush.I have moulinex 5004, and there is no black bread program there, only Borodino (from the programmed black ones). The total time of the program is 2h20m. All other recipes according to the program for traditional bread, from 3h20m to 3h50m. There is no temperature equalization, but there is a timer option, so this problem can be solved. But what kind of bread program to take? Well, it's not mine to knead it by hand, keep it in a bucket, etc. I won't have enough patience, I would be lazy Please tell me which program to choose? Maybe someone in a similar miracle of technology solved this question?
And yet, I have rye flour - peeled - Will it fit? I have already tried twice according to standard recipes (from the book in the kit, as much as 50 recipes), but it turns out something like a dietary doctor's bun tastes like nothing to me, but my husband frowns. He wants sour.