"Rye" tips from Gasha

To your health!

Gasha, hello! I am Olga and I do not like it when nice people are with me on "you". And you have here, well, it's just awful cute EVERYTHING! And that's it! And your explanations are extremely easy to understand and in a simple form, just great. I have x / p Morphy Richards 48290. I bake bread, as they say, the day after tomorrow - the third day. One and a half months. It so happened that she started it all with rye bread ("it happened so, sorry!" - remember this explanation to the Soviet "quality mark"?). And I got hooked on it !!!! The first two exemplary ones did not even occur to anyone to try. And then somehow I began to get bread. I already got it on my ears from the moderator Rina that I started right away with rye. But this has already been done. By the way, white simple bread sat down so that it turned out to be a bowl, not a convex lid. But that's not what I mean. Now I read this whole topic of yours. Oh-oh-chen I explained a lot for myself, wrote it down, tomorrow I will begin to act in your way. But I have questions that may turn out to be almost the main ones. And I, reading the topics and subtopics and master classes, for some reason do not remember that I saw the answers. So: How much rye flour does the need for two batches depend on? And 2) it turns out that there is no program for rye bread in my c / p - MRich. The basic basic program gives 2 kneads and 3 proofs, and in none of the modes there is a thorough (long?) Kneading and long proofing. How long does it take to knead, strain and bake rye bread in my cotton? To be honest, on the basis of the program I already get very (?) Delicious breads. But I want to figure it out myself. Or maybe it will be better for everyone - for us and for bread? Thanks in advance for your reply. Or send me to the right place (wow! How it turned out!), To the right topic. Thank you. Health !!!

[master class from Admin]

So: How much rye flour does the need for two batches depend on? And 2) it turns out that there is no program for rye bread in my c / p - MRich. The basic basic program gives 2 mixes and 3 proofs, and in none of the modes is there a thorough (long?) Kneading and long proofing. How long does it take to knead, proof and bake rye bread in my cotton? To be honest, on the basic program I already get very (?) Delicious breads. But I want to figure it out myself.

Hello Olya! Rye dough doesn't need two kneads ... One short one is enough, but you need to follow up and help the dough interfere well with a spatula ... Have you read this paragraph in the second post? In my opinion, it contains the answers to all your questions.

rye dough does not require long kneading. We just need all the ingredients to mix well. (An important point! Due to poorly mixed dough, the bread may turn out to be "lumpy"!) For myself, I chose a batch on the Pizza program, equal to 15 minutes. Next, according to the program, there is a pause before the second batch. Well, at this moment I turn off the program with the Stop button. And I leave the dough to rise (stand) in the switched off oven with the lid closed until it increases (rises) by 2 - 2.5 times. This can happen after 40 minutes or 4 hours depending on the room temperature and the strength of the yeast.

In your HP, for sure, there are programs such as Dough, Pelmeni, Noodles, Pizza - on which you can knead. Proofing can be carried out with the bread maker turned off, but the lid is closed - as long as it takes. Or do you want to bake on the machine? Then, in the absence of the Rye mode, the choice is small ... Try on Basic, or Diet, or French - I don't know which modes are in your stove
----------------------------

Olya, I went and read your messages ... You bake wheat-rye bread, that is,bread with a higher content of wheat flour in relation to rye. There is a completely different technology than in rye-wheat, and, by and large, no special modes and programs are needed ... On the main, they turn out remarkably. You have already been given a link to master class from Admin... There, everything is written in great detail and with pictures! Good luck!

[Gasha]

Gasha
Hello!
Please look at my bread. Stove BORK 500. Did you take the recipe for the stove?
Milk - 400ml.
Oil R. - 2 tbsp. l.
Salt -1 tsp
Sugar - 0.5 tsp.
Wheat baking flour - 1.5 measured. glasses (175g)

Rye flour - 2 tbsp. Art. (300g)
Dry yeast - 1 m l.
Baking dough - 1 b. measured. l.

Changes: Baking powder did not put in today, put PANIFARIN 2m. measured. l. with a slide.
Dark rye malt concentrate - 2 tsp

Kneading in TEST mode for 15 minutes. Added 1 tbsp. l of warm water (it seemed that the puddle was small). Part r. m added at the end of the batch. The dough did not stick to the walls. I helped with my hands and a spatula.
Proofing in the oven with the lamp on for about 2 hours. The dough has risen unevenly. Higher on one side, lower on the other. Smeared with warm water and yolk.
Baked in baking mode for 1 hour. It is no longer installed (wanted 1h 10 min.)
Photo after 1 hour. The stove will no longer turn on. The bread is not baked yet (no characteristic sound). I put it in the oven.
With panifarin it turned out very high. And with soda it is 2 times lower.

[mora]

mora,

Ganya is away for a while. But he will definitely answer you upon your return.

[Gasha]

While I was printing, the bottom was slightly burnt. It will cool down - I will show the pulp.
Gasha
I didn't understand a little about panifarin (from 1 tsp. To 4, depending on the amount of flour).
For more details, please.
Cracked - I understand - not enough water.
Why didn't the stove light up the minutes again? Maybe I should have just looked at the clock. She seemed to work.

Hello Gasha. I just can't cope with rye bread) But I really want it to work out. I read your posts. The first time I baked rye bread in the ratio of 30% rye. flour and 70% wheat. The crust is excellent, the top too, but the crumb is damp.
Then I came here, read everything, took your recipe: Darnitsky for her husband, just changed it a little. I changed the amount of flour: I took 240 g of wheat. + 200 g. flour (did the opposite than in the recipe). Extra-R and Panifarin were not added. Malts too)
Tk reduced 50 g in wheat flour (instead of 290 g), added 50 g semolina.
I also added about 30-40 ml of water to 310 ml of water, this is instead of the prescribed volume of malt.
I kneaded on the TESTO program for 15 minutes, then for 1, 5 hours the dough rose. It went up well. I turned on baking for 1 hour. The crust is wonderful, but the top of the bread fell and the crumb is almost all damp.
What have I done wrong. Maybe because I didn't have Panifarin and Extra-R supplements?
I am still a beginner. Bread maker 2 weeks. White bread turned out to be good, tasty, but with rye, nothing ...
Help me to understand.

I didn't have time to take a picture of the whole slice Already more than half of the bread is gone
Gasha, I think the bread had to be finished yet. Although when pressed, it quickly regains its shape. When pressed, the crumb is restored, but a fingerprint remains.

[mora]

mora, if it seems to you that the bread is not baked, then you can always turn on the Baking mode a second time, and, say, after ten minutes, turn off the oven by force. I have never added a baking powder to the yeast dough (and I don't understand why to do this, because the yeast itself does an excellent job), so, unfortunately, I cannot help ...

I did not understand about panifarin (from 1 tsp. to 4, depending on the amount of flour).
For more details, please.

Panifarin is gluten that is added to rye flour, which does not contain this gluten, in order to make the bread richer. Accordingly, the higher the percentage of rye flour, the more panifarin is put into the dough. But you can do without it, which I have been doing for many years.

chispa, the absence of panifrin and other additives should not affect the quality of the bread if you added something to replace these additives, such as vinegar, ascorbic acid, apple, semolina, etc.

The error is here:

I also added about 30-40 ml of water to 310 ml of water, this is instead of the prescribed volume of malt

Malt absorbs liquid sooo well, so if you don't put it in, you don't need to top up the water it needs (malt). Try 310 ml of water next time ... if the bun is dry, then add 1-2 tbsp. l.

[you can turn on the Baking mode a second time,]

you can turn on the Baking mode a second time,
I didn't succeed in that. Mistletoe told me that my stove needs time to cool down. I waited for about 20 minutes, but nothing happened and I had to turn on the oven.
Gasha, I check the readiness by knocking on the bread. There was no characteristic knocking, so I decided that I had not finished yet. I inserted the torch - it was dry. And on a cut, do you think baked bread or not.

[mora]

mora, in my opinion, the crumb of bread is not baked, wet

With a splinter, you can often make mistakes and take unbaked bread for ready-made bread. The best way to check the readiness of baked goods is to control the temperature probe, you can never go wrong, 100% guarantee

[mora]

mora, in my opinion, the crumb of bread is not baked, wet

With temperature probe control, you can never go wrong, 100% guarantee.

Need to buy!!! Thank you!!!

By the way, I baked my unbaked rye bread twice in the Baking mode. Both times for 1 hour. Total 2 hours. The bread dried on top, but the crumb remained unbaked.
Why isn't the crumb baked? maybe I put a little flour. So it seems like I'm doing everything about proven recipes.
I already said that I did kneading on the program, Dough for 15 minutes, then raising the dough, then the baking mode for an hour.

[chispa]

chispa, the dough has doubled? Was the dough kneaded well? This can happen with poor mix or poor quality yeast.

Yeah, the dough rose straight up well. 2.5 times. Yeast Saf moment. The dough was mixed for 15 minutes. Maybe bad, I don't know.
Our neighbor baked rye bread (she took the third part of rye flour) on the main mode. Very good bread turned out.
So I think I can try to bake on the main one? What do you think?

[Haaaaaan!]

Haaaaaan! Enlighten me, oh almighty rye guru! Here I ran into an interesting problem: in rye bread (I bake the one with semolina and vinegar according to your recipe, well, you know), instead of sugar I put maltose syrup, rose well, but absolutely not baked, I repeated ..., mlyn, too most ... right after that, both baked bread twice according to the same recipe, but without molasses, everything is fine .... Why would that be?

[chispa]

chispa, if there is more wheat flour than rye flour, then you can bake on the main one, since gluten will work
SchuMakher, Manyun, I don't know ... I have very little experience with molasses ... I used it only at the very beginning of my communication with a bread maker in Darnitsk for my husband. As far as I remember, everything was fine ...

Gash, I am struggling with the left recipe (in the sense that not from our site) of wheat-rye bread for the second day in a row. I reread your topic several times. Today we managed to solve the problem with bread, but not yet completely, it is tearing the roof off in places. I want to repeat it tomorrow and think about taking less yeast (1 tsp). Do you think it will help?
The ratio of flour in the recipe: 300 g of wheat to 130 rye peeled. I increased the amount of water during yesterday’s attempt from 200 ml to 240 ml, and added it when mixing. Today I took 1.5 tsp of yeast, there were as many as 2 in the recipe.

Man, try it, of course But I don't bake wheat-rye bread, we don't like them ... The processes (and, accordingly, the technology) there are practically the same as in wheat, because gluten must be developed ...

The processes (and, accordingly, the technology) there are practically the same as in wheat

That is, the bun should not be made as soft as for rye? I had it very soft, sticky, at the bottom of the bucket under the rotating stirrer "circle" did not leave.

That is, the bun should not be made as soft as for rye? I had it very soft, sticky, at the bottom of the bucket under the rotating stirrer "circle" did not leave.

Man, pay attention to the first post of this topic ... I tried to illustrate exactly rye-wheat dough in order to obtain a uniform crumb porosity as a result. Someone loves large-porous bread, then the dough will not look like a bun. But in the case of wheat-rye dough, the circle under the bun is not needed, no need to be guided by this.

[Manechka]

Today we managed to solve the problem with bread, but not yet completely, it is tearing the roof off in places.

I'm sorry to interrupt !! Manechka, do you bake in HP? Tears off the side? This is usually due to insufficient proofing.

I had it very soft, sticky,

You have almost 2 times the advantage of wheat flour. Look here HERE similar ratio. True, I was kneading in a combine.

[Gash]

Gash, Thank you! I will try to navigate by the already familiar bread with whole grain flour.

Ksyusha, in the oven. Today it turned out like this in time: dough - 1.5 hours, raising the dough - 1 hour (I wanted to leave it for another 30 minutes, but did not decide that she would go overboard), proofing for 40-50 minutes until it doubled. Baked with steam for the first 10 minutes at 230, then lowered the temperature. The roof, aha, tore off the sides. All that you know!

I have already warned my friends that they will eat this bread until I get it. We liked it very much to our taste, it remains to bring the appearance to mind.

Is the bread baked or in the form? Did you make incisions? Undermines on the sides with insufficient proofing.

The first time I baked a hearth, with incisions, no more than 1 cm deep. The bread was literally torn apart in the oven, so I took less yeast the second time. Today I baked in a mold, I made shallow cuts. The roof suffered from both sides and small "tears" along the cuts. Tomorrow I will try to bake it again: I will reduce the amount of yeast to 1 tsp. and increase the proofing time.

Yeah, I also wanted to write that yeast still needs 1 hour. l. Stubborn what !!!! Looks like I really liked the bread !! Good luck!

Ksyusha, I'm just wondering who will win.

Man, yes you, of course! Have no doubt!!!

Gasha!
Thank you very much for Darnitsky's recipe for her husband, just wonderful bread!

And you don't tell me what could be the reason that I always get the top of the bread not convex, but just flat parallel to the bottom? For example, today I made your Darnetskiy according to the first recipe, only without Narzan. She put everything into the oven, put it on the pizza after 20 minutes, turned it off and waited for it to rise. an hour later there was a beautiful dome, I turned on baking for an hour and when then I opened the flat roof again, and not the convex one
I don’t understand what’s the matter ...
True, I noticed that the bun was without a smeared puddle from below, maybe there was not enough liquid for bread ... maybe because of this or maybe it is necessary to put pizza on a full cycle, and not turn it off after 20 minutes?

Gasha!
Thank you very much for Darnitsky's recipe for her husband, just wonderful bread!

To your health, but it is better to write about this in the Darnitsy topic

And you don't tell me what could be the reason that I always get the top of the bread not convex, but just flat parallel to the bottom? For example, today I made your Darnetskiy according to the first recipe, only without Narzan. She put everything into the oven, put it on the pizza after 20 minutes, turned it off and waited for it to rise. an hour later there was a beautiful dome, I turned on baking for an hour and when then I opened the flat roof again, and not the convex one
I don’t understand what’s the matter ...

Offhand - try to reduce the amount of liquid by 20 ml

True, I noticed that the bun was without a smeared puddle below, maybe there was enough liquid bread ...

It would be nice to have a photo of the crumb, it's so hard to say ... What pores? Small or Large?

maybe because of this or maybe it is necessary to put a pizza on a full cycle, and not turn it off after 20 minutes?

This is definitely not necessary! Read Tips carefully. Rye dough needs a short batch

Here's a crumb turned out

The crumb is uneven - in the lower part it is finely porous, closer to the roof there are large pores. The reasons may be poor mixing of the dough (did it help with a spatula?), Or the dough has stopped.Water can be reduced by literally 10 ml

By the way, about a puddle ... There is a fairly large amount of wheat flour in Darnitsky, so there may not be a puddle ...

helped but only at the very beginning, when she scraped off the flour. I will try to help a little more next time.
Gasha, tell me, is it possible to fill in all the ingredients and put on a dietary regime (I have a Panasonic 256) or it won't work on it, because the program is too long?

I didn’t bake on "Dieticheskiy", but on "French" I often bake this bread. So try

And one more thing ... Weather conditions greatly influence the result ... Try to bake bread in rainy weather and in sunny weather ...

but I got it like this



150g wheat flour
275g rye
75g mixture "Borodino"

the top is so porous, flat, what's wrong? little or much yeast / water? outstopped / not worthy?

If the top is porous - it looks like a sponge, then the dough has stopped ...

The crumb is good - it means the water is normal

Sorry for the late answer - I was away

Girls, I am to you for help: we asked you masters to find out:

on what mode can you bake rye bread if there is no "rye" mode? It was my neighbor who bought HP Panasonic, I don’t know the model, but it doesn’t have a "rye" mode, and there was no paddle for rye bread. She tried to bake it with the usual blade and the usual mode, but the bread says it's all cracked ... I gave the blade to her, I hope it will do ...

Thanks to all!!!!

Rye bread is baked in automatic modes - and on the Basic, and Diet, and French. I advise you to first knead the dough, for example, on dumplings, then let it distance - come up with the HP turned off with the lid closed until the volume doubles, then turn on the Baking for about ten hour

Hello, can I ask you? I have a Panasonic 2501 .. recently, I'm just a beginner - the dark forest is everything for me ... but still there. )) First, such a question, what does it mean to include "baking". Aren't programs installed in x \ b and / or can they be corrected? to put kneading or baking or lifting separately ?? I'm interested in this.
and the second question, according to the instructions for my car, I stopped baking, because I found out that there are mistakes, I look and focus on your forum and here is the recipe
Ingredients

Fast-acting dry yeast 2 tsp.
Rye flour 390 grams.
Wheat flour 150 grams.
Salt 1.5 tsp
Sugar 1.5 tbsp. l.
Vegetable oil 1 tbsp. l.
Water 400 ml.

Auto program 7 - Rye bread.

It stood for exactly an hour, kneading - I helped with a spatula like in a movie, he climbed up in the form of a comma, he didn't collect from the walls and from below either. not gruel, not liquid but not tight either. very sticky. now let's get up. as she could smoothen the crest. but very sticky.

If such a bun is not obedient climbs up, what are my actions ??? something to add or help him?
thanks in advance

This is how he is on my way up, until the end of the program 1.30 minutes.

The bread turned out to be delicious, raised, not hard, but the roof collapsed like on wheat ... here is a photo

Marina, this bread is obtained when there is a lot of liquid or the dough has stood

what does it mean? because it is in the stove, and the stove seems to know the technological process. what to do that would not stop?

[Mari_S]

Mari_S , the stove knows something, but you must follow this process. Here you can see that the dough has stopped:

This is how he is on my way up, until the end of the program 1.30 minutes.

You see the surface from above is not even, but in a hole.

The gingerbread man should be sticky, smeared along the bottom, but not on the walls. Try to reduce the amount of liquid by 20 ml. And the amount of yeast up to 1.5 hours. l.

[Mari_S]

Hello, can I ask you? I have a Panasonic 2501 .. recently, I'm just a beginner - the dark forest is everything for me ... but still there. )) First, such a question, what does it mean to include "baking". Aren't programs installed in x \ b and / or can they be corrected? to put kneading or baking or lifting separately ?? I'm interested in this.
and the second question, according to the instructions for my car, I stopped baking, because I found out that there are mistakes, I look and focus on your forum and here is the recipe
Ingredients

Fast-acting dry yeast 2 tsp.
Rye flour 390 grams.
Wheat flour 150 grams.
Salt 1.5 tsp
Sugar 1.5 tbsp. l.
Vegetable oil 1 tbsp. l.
Water 400 ml.

Auto program 7 - Rye bread.

It stood for exactly an hour, kneading - I helped with a spatula like in a movie, he climbed up in the form of a comma, he didn't collect from the walls and from below either. not gruel, not liquid but not tight either.very sticky. now let's get up. as she could smoothen the crest. but very sticky.

If such a bun is not obedient climbs up, what are my actions ??? something to add or help him?
thanks in advance

Mari_S, sorry to answer with a delay, I was away ... Many thanks to the girls tat-63 and mistletoe for their help

Mari_S, You inattentively read this topic.All your questions are answered in the first posts ...

Can rye breads be baked using automatic programs? You can, of course. But in this case, we get a "pig in a poke" at the exit. After all, nobody inspired the beauty of bread and did not put a soul into it ... What has grown has grown!

Why did I choose to install programs manually? The bread making process consists of batchbut dough, climband the test and baking.

1. In automatic programs, a longer time is set. batchthan is needed for kneading rye dough, for which this longest kneading is simply contraindicated. Yes, and even with kneading, which rye dough is also not needed. Therefore, we choose a program that is more suitable for kneading dough, for example, Pelmeni.

2. Time climband the dough should not be limited by the time frame, since it depends on many variable factors - weather conditions, flour moisture, yeast strength, etc. Care must be taken to rise the dough so that the dough does not "stand out" or "stagnate". Therefore, my dough stands in the turned off oven, but with the lid closed, protecting it from drafts, as much as it (the dough) needs.

3. Usually on automatic programs the time is set baking - one hour, which is not enough for rye bread. Therefore, I set the time from hour ten to hour and twenty minutes. The more rye flour, the longer it will take

I helped with a spatula like in a movie, he climbed up in the form of a comma

You need to help with a spatula, but the movie you watched refers to a more liquid dough than mine, which is why it turns out a "comma" About such a batter it is better to ask the author of the movie, I like rye bread more dense with finely porous uniform crumb.

This is how he is on my way up, until the end of the program 1.30 minutes.

The dough has stood, on the surface - a sponge. Mistletoe answered you absolutely correctly

The bread turned out to be delicious, raised, not hard, but the roof collapsed like on wheat ... here is a photo

tat-63:

such bread is obtained when there is a lot of liquid or the dough has stood

Thank you my dear! Everything is correct It is necessary to reduce the amount of liquid and be more attentive when raising the dough

what does it mean? because it is in the stove, and the stove seems to know the technological process. what to do that would not stop?

Follow the test

Thanks for the lucid explanation, but still. if it stopped, then my actions ??? what kind?

[Here is about standing dough]

Marisha, re-read this topic carefully, especially the first posts, well, it's already written there ...

Here is about standing dough

[Yana Sitkevich]

I saw a comment at the bottom of the page, I don't remember the password - I answer here ...

Yana Sitkevich
What if the bread is kneaded on the dumplings mode, and then put the oven on the normal mode?

Yana, that is, you are going to first knead the dough for 20 minutes on Dumplings, and then you will knead it according to the normal mode program for a long time and with kneading ??? !!!

I wouldn't do that ...

Hello!
Please tell me how you can fix my mistakes!
I have been baking bread in KhP (Panasonic 2500) with yeast for almost a year now, and now I wanted to bake it with "eternal" rye sourdough. Found this recipe: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=145168.0
and this:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=102164.0

The leaven works well, I weigh all the ingredients in grams per email. scales, I help to stir the dough with a spatula, I level it - there is no kolobok, as in the photographs. The dough fits, increases in volume, but !!! I check before baking - a well-raised dough, and at the end of baking, a collapsed roof, a settled loaf with a damp crumb Help bake bread, I'll soon be completely desperate!

[here]

With leavens for you here...There is our wonderful, smart, knowledgeable, kind Viki - Vika will definitely help you! (that is, it will not lag behind until you get something good!

And read more this topic... There is no less wonderful Tanya-Suslya tells and shows a master class on rye-wheat sourdough bread in KhP