Sponge functional bread in a bread maker

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, yeah, it's clear .. in general, less usefulness and less watery.
It's not for nothing that I set the timer - the signaling! My dough is almost in the lid! Well, another half minutes and that's it!), And on the program another 21 minutes before turning on the baking. And as I felt, 3/4 teaspoon of yeast is a bit too much, especially since the dough also ate delicious - 50g. rye flour except white and oatmeal!
In general, now we need to keep our fists, there is a feeling that the roof will fall into the lunar crater there! But I know one secret and applied it. It will be known in an hour.

Thanks for the helpful information and the simple recipe!
As soon as I find normal flour, I will bake it.

[Palych]

Palych, but not scary! The first pancake is lumpy, but it's tasty and healthy .... damn it .... Adjust the recipe to suit your conditions - 10 grams back and forth, 10 ml back and forth, 10 minutes back and forth ..... And then everything will go automatically and it will be beautiful!
Tricia, Nastya, I will be glad if the information and the recipe are useful!

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, and about semolina write something like that, probably the usual one is not very good. How does it affect the dough, taste.
Did you write about the second portion of yeast in the dough? Already forgot...

The first pancake is lumpy

That is not normal. bread. Slightly profiled the last. proofing and a "wrinkled" hat, now under a towel ... I can take a picture)

about semolina write something like that,

Semolina in this case in the amount of 20g serves as "enhanced fast food" for the dough, on it the dough is activated "by leaps and bounds." It is better to take it under the "T" (semolina) mark, but there is no big difference for the body. It is instantly broken down by the yeast dough.

the second portion of yeast in the dough

Already wrote. When baking bread with dough, including bigo and pulish, a second small portion of yeast is added to the dough. This second serving contains "hungry" yeast that actively produces carbon dioxide, raising the dough. Whereas the first, very small portion of yeast in the dough, performs other functions: it improves the taste, aroma, structure of bread, breaks down phytic acid and oligosaccharides, enriches the dough with vitamins, available minerals and short-chain fatty acids. By the time it is added to the dough, the yeast from the dough is already "full" and does not actively process oligo- and disaccharides into carbon dioxide.

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, it is clear ... just here are many recipes for dough bread, and I also have a beloved one, it turns out bread according to GOST, as before for 20 kopecks. was, well, exactly. In general, water flour and 1.4 g of yeast, then with a quarter of a teaspoon, it rose in 6 hours, it is possible in the cold overnight and adding the rest. flour and water, fermentation proofers and pitches. And we don't add anything. And here it turns out for some reason that sponge yeast needs "doping", which means either their quantity is small or they are inactive. I thought that they didn’t like the kefir environment or something, and because the bacteria “pressed” them, they didn’t allow them to multiply strongly. Well, or the dough itself is not enough to ferment the main flour during the operation of the program, well, or they don't like flour or flakes.




Oh, right now, I'll take an express photo.


You see .. the top is so wavy, the baking temperature has begun to fall (?) (?), If it were immediately put into a preheated oven ... in general, an autopsy would tell you more precisely.

[Palych]

Palych, Igor, do you have a square bowl of HP? If yes, then in a different mode the oven is needed, where the last rise time is shorter. I have a square one at the dacha, the bread is different, so in the summer I always get confused in gadgets and recipes (((

[paramed1]

paramed1, Veronica, yes, square, the most optimal shape, up to 900 g. about 2 liters. (sort of). And what is the reason?

[Palych]

Palych, Igor, the area of ​​the bottom of the bowl is smaller, the bread rushes up faster.I got used to it for a long time, I have to reduce the ingredients when baking in the country at the rate of 750 g.

[paramed1]

paramed1, well, I bake at the rate of 500 g of flour, if the usual white, max. up to 550 even if you missed / overflowed water, you can add. And it heats powerfully on proofers, at 40 ° C, this is not always useful. Or maybe it's harmful at all.

[Palych]

Yes, Palych, you probably still need the "French" mode and once you have one premium flour, then reduce the water by 10 ml and reduce the amount of yeast in the dough to 2 g.

I walked down the street and thought to offer Palych to reduce the yeast, but here Lina already gave advice! This bread rises very well and quickly. In other recipes, the process is more protracted, so it turns out ok for buckets stretched up. Yes, you will have to suffer in the country ...

For such bread with c / z flour, bran or oatmeal, such airiness per 4 g of yeast is a very good result. For premium flour, you can use 2-3 g of yeast for the whole bread. There the dough is lighter, it is easier for yeast to raise it.

Kefir confuses me, does it give a strong sourness.

[Olga]

Olga, no, it is not felt at all.

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, thanks, reassured. Otherwise, the husband will not eat

I put the dough according to the recipe, in the evening, at 11
Proven yeast, a week ago they had normal bread on them.
Today I looked at about 12. She did not rise, or she rose very slightly.
The kefir was fresh, only the fungus was removed.
What do you advise? Wait? Add yeast?

[Olga]

OlgaI think you can use. Even a small amount of yeast and kefir did their job, they transferred c / z flour and oatmeal into a useful product. And the splendor of the "second stage" yeast will bring. So, I think you can safely launch the bread.

Thank you

Lina the whole family liked the bread




Hell in HP Panasonic, on the program "Diet"

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, Every day I look, while others ate delicious bread.
The oven is necessary!

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, excellent result! I'm glad it worked out! Everything is very simple, tasty and healthy. Pekies for health!

The oven is necessary!

Come on Ton, peki! Then show and tell!

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, in the morning we finished the last piece of this medicinal bread. We still need to figure out something like that.
And yesterday all evening I was reading in Lena Zheleznyak's blog about all this ... phytic acid, maltose, amylase, sugar. Yes, we must use tsz flour. You generally need to grind it yourself. Sourdoughs, doughs ... in general, right now, knowledge is a rod. And oatmeal norms. theme.

[Palych]

Yeah, Palych, I am talking about this, and I write on my blog. I am glad that not only me, but information illiteracy is striking. Everywhere there are very strange, unfounded or hopelessly outdated statements and pseudo dietary myths.

[Linadoc]

Linadocand where is the link to the blog? I will read it.

[Palych]

Palych, wrote in a personal.

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, yes, I see, I see ... I'll read it until morning.) ... then questions.



Oh hold me! In general, now a lot of things are clear. If it is applied to this recipe, then it cannot be considered dough in the classical sense. Now it is clear why the industrial feed is needed. yeast for the dough. What I added are fast, thermal. processed oatmeal and naively believed that this bread had suddenly become "healing" - childish naivety. Moreover, without the use of cz flour or bran (sowing). Ga Lina took pity on me and did not dissuade me from trying to bake this bread, well, it certainly wouldn’t be worse, but the next time she made an attempt to understand (after reading the articles) why all these processes and ingredients were needed.
But there is one plus in my attempt. You still do not understand why my bread was so flooded after kneading the mains. flour (w / c). Yes, reducing the amount of yeast, time, temperature of proofing is already an attempt to adapt to the situation, and why it arose - I just understood after reading the articles and not only the author of the recipe.

Lina, look what happened

Sinful. I deviated a little from the recipe - instead of 250 g of premium flour, I put 150 and 100 c / h. I added water, but apparently not enough. Or did he not have enough time for proofing?

[Yulia]

Yulia, not perfect, but not bad! The crumb is great! On a solid four, let's take the record book!

instead of 250 g of premium flour, I put 150 and 100 c / s. I added water, but apparently not enough.

Let's analyze the errors. Yul, why am I putting flour into the dough, and not into the dough? Because it contains a large amount of phytic acid, which, during the fermentation of dough in 1-2 hours, does not have time to go into a state in which the body will assimilate it without problems. And if so, then it will then cause flatulence, heaviness, impaired absorption of iron, zinc, calcium and phosphorus. Why do you need it? Therefore, I add all the c / z flour to the dough, and even in the presence of fermented milk flora, which intensively converts phytic acid into a bioavailable form. So don't add it to the dough! Then you won't have to be smart with water. The amount of fiber, vitamins and beta-glucans in the same amount of c / c flour and oatmeal that are included in the dough is quite enough for the body.

did not have enough time for proofing?

Judging by the crumb, there was enough time. What program did you do?

Yul, why am I putting flour into the dough, and not into the dough? Because it contains a large amount of phytic acid, which, during the fermentation of dough in 1-2 hours, does not have time to go into a state in which the body will assimilate it without problems. And if so, then it will then cause flatulence, heaviness, impaired absorption of iron, zinc, calcium and phosphorus.

Uh, I haven't studied theory yet. I wanted c / z. On this program, I baked in Panasika (I mixed it in a bucket, lived the night on the balcony, then I put it in the oven with a light bulb, but it would have been necessary to warm it up slightly).

[Palych]

Oh hold me!

Palychyou can't be held back! And there is no need. One should only welcome such a desire to try everything and figure it out! So, nothing happens in vain! All people make mistakes, that's not the point. The point is what kind of experience they get. Everything with experience is excellent for you - both the conclusions are correct, and the thought is actively moving in the right direction.

I haven't studied theory yet

Here it is, the main mistake! But that's okay! Now the main thing is to draw the right conclusions. Look how Palych

Here it is, the main mistake! But that's okay! Now the main thing is to draw the right conclusions.

Lina, kick in the right direction, please

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, you know what I have not understood yet? Here are the free ones in this chain: glucose-fructose-sucrose-maltose how long does it take? They write indefinitely (in a few minutes the yeast eats up all the sugar free in the flour) and then they are mistaken for the "correct" starch. And when they, having rearranged themselves, get used to splitting it (eating), then the introduction of a new portion of fresh flour, in which St. sugar, does not push them to their initial processing, but they still throw themselves on starch, that is, they immediately do something useful to us.
In other words, it would be useful to give them part of the flour in the dough that will then be their main food, in the main dough. They will get used to it, learn to work effectively with it even at the stage of dough. What do you think?
And there is also an opinion that a thick dough, in addition to the well-known positive properties, is more acceptable for the work of the ICD, they work better in a thick (paradox) than in a liquid one. This is true?

[Palych]

Here are the free ones in this chain: glucose-fructose-sucrose-maltose how long does it take?

In other words, it would be useful to give them part of the flour in the dough that will then be their main food, in the main dough.

Palych, yeast is the same living thing as we are. Therefore, they will eat what is easier to process and tastier, that is, glucose and fructose, then maltose and lactose, and only then starch (polysaccharide). And before they eat all the monosacchara, then the disahara, they will not take the polysachara. You cannot teach them. But you can create a deficiency of monosaccharides - to help increase the amount of yeast. When there are a lot of them, they will instantly gobble up all the monosaccharides, then disachara and start working on starch, abundantly releasing carbon dioxide.This is why the second batch of yeast is added. And the first one does his job.

thick dough, in addition to the known positive properties, is more acceptable for the work of the ICD

They don't care how thick the dough is, the main thing for them is the presence of a sufficient amount of substrate for fermentation. But since they multiply much slower than yeast, then either wait for many hours (but then the yeast will ferment everything and the dough will ferment - and then it is sourdough), or add ready-made. My favorite technique is MPP and cold fermentation, which inhibits yeast development but does not interfere with MPC development. As a result - taste, aroma, and benefits, and not peroxidized dough

You can't teach them

Clearly, this is not in your work. It's not for nothing that I wrote this whole hawki food chain strictly in turn. For lactose special. did not write, there is a story.
But what I noticed unusual is that, having devoured everything that is easily accessible and with each change of the menu, they rebuild their bodies and, having reached the last stage of starch and actively absorbing it, when a new batch of a complete lunch arrives, they "score" on the fact that there are free maltose, fructose, sucrose, and continue to eat starch flour. They are lazy or energetic. it is not profitable to rebuild the metabolism again, well, at least they don’t stop processing starch, as they did in the beginning, but they eat and eat it. And that's what we need!
Okay, forget it. You still do not understand what I wanted to clarify.

they do not quit processing starch, as they did in the beginning, but gobble and devour it.

Why do you think so? This is not true. Those that ate after eating their own share. And their "children" again rush to monosaccharides, then to disaccharides, then only to starch.

You still do not understand what I wanted to clarify.

She told about bread. What is not worth discussing in biochemistry and physiology here, because the processes in vitro, in vivo and in the test are very different due to a number of components. What I have already described in terms of microbiology, pathology and benefits for the body.

Okay, no more.

[Linadoc]

LinadocCan I link to the blog? I will read it.

I also want a link

To everyone who asks, I write the link in a personal, so as not to litter the topic and the forum.

[Linadoc]

Linadocand here is mine
I did everything according to the recipe, only I took 1 grade flour, instead of the highest one. The dough stood in the refrigerator for a very long time, but rose by two millimeters, no more. However, its structure became looser and I found it possible to use it. The regime chose Diet, the total time is five hours. Cut only today. The appearance leaves much to be desired - one end has burst, the crust is soft and not thick. The crumb itself is quite light, one might say, airy and quite tasty. It seems that there is not enough salt, but this is initially, then you get used to it ... Thank you for the delicious and healthy recipe! It seems that the total time is very extended, but on the very grandfather, this is one of the fastest breads that I have ever baked.

And I am with the report. I tried to make it strictly according to the recipe, but life dictates its own rules. I could not throw out the oatmeal, which my son did not finish in the morning, added to the dough. And then I found out that there was not enough flour and ran out of Hercules flakes. Replaced with what is at hand: quick-cooking oat flakes. The Mechnikovsky curdled milk was also used.
I was very afraid that the dough would become sour and the bread would also sour - no, the bread turned out to be very tasty, fragrant, not too airy, but it rose 2.5 times !, evenly porous and elastic.
I will definitely make it strictly according to the recipe!
Thanks for the science!

[Catherine]

Catherine, very good bread! Well done! Now we need to figure out why the dough in the refrigerator did not rise well. Did you knead the dough with warm water? Did you keep it for 40-45 minutes at room temperature? What is the temperature in the refrigerator? Overall, the crumb is good. You can try another mode - Basic, French, Rye. And you can add a little salt, but then a rash of 2 tsp sugar in the dough.



Tricia, Nastya, excellent result! But it is clear that the porridge has gone into use - a little less liquid would be needed. But overall, the bread is good !!! Clever girl!

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, I even measured the temperature of the water, since a lot of time has passed since the kettle was boiled, at room temperature (at 24 *) I was an hour, in the refrigerator with a weeping wall ... I put it on the lower shelf, and the thermometer on the top 7.2 * showed, in the morning moved to the top, but ... maybe a little late ... this is my only reasonable explanation, the rest is beyond understanding with No Frost - the dough does not fit at all, it has been tested for a long time, so I don’t consider that refrigerator for proving or curing the dough I really liked the taste, I will certainly add salt - I will add sugar, thanks for the hint I have a Panasonic 2510, No rye, Basic - in my opinion, good for a light premium wheat dough, but it may not work - it's hard. I haven’t tried French, but I also liked the Diet ... it doesn’t matter how long it takes, the main thing is the result. I’ll bake the next one, taking into account all the comments and corrections.

And I bought everything for science. The flour is correct, wheat flour, and it turns out we had a long oatmeal (cook for half an hour), grinded 25 g. I also bought rye seedlings (bran), there were different, a dozen varieties (buckwheat, flax, corn, wheat ...), I think these are the most useful elements.
I want to make the first one with white premium, I will replace 15 grams with bran.
There was a problem, all my sour milk tasted (guessed to try) bitter ... in general, was it a kapets? Sour cream threw a couple of Art. l, fortunately there it is necessary a little. Then I found yogurt in a bag, I'd rather replace it with it ... in general, with this joint. Well, liquid dough !!! Compared to yours in the photo ... after half an hour in the heat, I will add white flour, the main one, to the desired density and mix again for about two minutes. I can spoon two. Or is it better than these inoculations of rye in dough?

[Palych]

Palych, add bran, this is more logical - they also need to dissolve phytic acid. And take 10-20 ml of liquid from the test.

add bran

Into the dough? Ha, almost 5 hours have passed and she, has already doubled, said hello to you). Nope, "thickened" with white flour, three spoons (25 grams approx), let the night train to eat what he will eat tomorrow for the main thing. And the bran will go to the main. kneading. Will be from the "tower" 1 grade. 4% of 250 ... 10 grams. Why reduce the water? Especially since there will be more in the seeding menu? I'd rather not take away the flour. For mbk trohi "bench press", sour cream is not kefir.




For fetin ... it is neutralized by boiling and frying, then why does it not disappear during baking (an hour at 200 °)? And it turns out all all all the vitamins and minerals in a bound state? If you add these bran, as they say, simply to the diet, without such "smart neutralization", then they are not good, but harm?

neutralized by both boiling and frying

Firstly, in the thickness of the bread it is not at all 200 * C and not all of it is "neutralized" at all. Secondly, "neutralization" and the transition to the state of biodegradation with the transition of calcium and phosphorus to the free state and their further assimilation are not at all the same thing. And we need the latter.

If you add these bran, as they say, simply to the diet, without such "smart neutralization", then they are not good, but harm?

When used rarely, untreated bran is a benefit, as it works in place of a broom, removing debris from the body. With frequent - harm, because they bring out everything that is useful, without giving anything in return. And fiber is needed all the time, so you need to consume it often. So much for the conclusion.

All this is in my article on phytic acid.

[Linadoc]

Linadoc, from well that I recalled ... I'm with ml. grandson and forgot what was on the loggia of the dough.
In general, I came up well, left it for 20 minutes while I cooked and weighed everything else. It is necessary to look for a yellow semolina, they say this from hard varieties, added 10g of bran to the flour, they turn out to be light, it took 4st. spoons. And he gave the yeast "Viagra", it's the secret ingredient.Now half an hour on postponed, such as autolysis, then the "Frenchman" will turn on, I will personally control the last proofing.
And 25g of lard turns out to be a large table. spoon with a huge cap! I previously laid down 'by eye' and much less. Well, maybe it should be in your recipe. I stuck it in pieces above the dough in a bucket, then, with 2 kneading, if not by itself, the scraper will fall into the dough. Immediately lay down fat - the hand does not rise.

Thanks again for the recipe, I baked it yesterday.
The loaf turned out to be rather small, or maybe I'm just used to baking on the sun, that's why it seems so. But the crumb seems to be good.

Wonderful aroma of well-fermented bread and wonderful creamy crumb color.
It's a pity, my eaters don't really like bread with the addition of CH flour, but that's okay, we'll slowly teach it.
By the way, my dough didn't rise very much in the refrigerator either, I confess I forgot it on the kitchen table for about an hour and a half, it doubled in size, and in the refrigerator it didn't move. At the end of fermentation, it even slightly fell off, but there was no sourness in the bread at all.