Where does this dish come from?

[Where does this dish come from? What national cuisine does it belong to?]

Where does this dish come from? What national cuisine does it belong to?

Today in the topic "Lenten dumplings with potatoes" the following dialogue arose:

Admin, another "Russian" dish that is more often cooked in Ukraine and Belarus?

Konstantin, there is no need to flirt and put yourself above your own head and the Slavs, especially when these three nationalities (Belarusians, Ukrainians, Russians) are twin brothers, no matter how strange it sounds to you.Do not forget your roots, it is harmful for descendants
And let's put politics aside, bad for the stomach
In our family, "this dish" was prepared from the king of peas, living in Russia, and having both Russians and Ukrainians in their blood

Admin, there is no policy here. It's just that you probably shouldn't hang the label "Russian" on every recipe just because it was prepared somewhere in Zamkadye today ... If, in your opinion, three nationalities (Belarusians, Ukrainians, Russians) are twin brothers, then why is the recipe still "Russian" and not "Ukrainian" or "Belarusian"? The question is rhetorical ...

And the truth: the question is rhetorical)
And such questions are asked with constant regularity: whose cuisine is this, what nationality?

We remember how many copies we have already broken, when we proved to each other who owns BORSCH, that borscht can only be Ukrainian, and without beets (white). And at the same time, our beloved Ukrainian women themselves admitted that in different regions of Ukraine borscht is cooked in different ways, with and without beets.
The disputes were serious))) As a result, it was recognized that borscht can be both Ukrainian and Moscow, although not everyone agrees with this, and disputes may arise again)).

And pilaf - whose product?
And whose product is dumplings?
And whose product is the noodles?
And dumplings, dumplings, curd cakes - whose product?

Where is the truth, where to look for it?
In this thread I would like to talk about the name of national dishes, their nationality, their origin, and so on ... so as not to clog with unnecessary disputes and fights directly in recipe topics))

So let's start with dumplings. With potatoes, cottage cheese, berries, cherries and other fillings)
What do you think?))

Vicki says this:

Vareniki (Ukrainian dumplings, vɑˈrɛnɪ̞kɪ̞) is a Slavic dish, most common in Ukrainian cuisine, in the form of boiled unleavened dough stuffed with minced meat, vegetables, mushrooms, fruits, cottage cheese, and berries.

slavic dish

What category of nationalities can be attributed to the "Slavs"? If all three nationalities are included here, will the dish equally relate to these nationalities, and equally be considered Russian-Ukrainian-Belarusian? And dumplings will not relate to a specific nationality?

So...
We still need to crawl through reference books, according to sources

It is generally accepted, at least among Russians, that dumplings and samovars are purely our inventions, but in China all this appeared much earlier.
May the Uzbeks and Stalik forgive me (I'm afraid to make a mistake in his name), but I really love pilaf and read it as my national dish. :-)
And in general, I was born in the Soviet Union (in Central, by the way, Asia) and therefore I consider all the dishes of the peoples of the former USSR to be my national, no matter what they say. :-)
Leopold the cat was right - let's live together!

[Admin]

Admin, no need to break spears, argue, etc.
Here's an example. Givech's recipe (I prepared it recently) and read in the comments to it:

Givech (gyuvech) - dish pan-Balkan cuisine, made from vegetables, meat and vegetables, sometimes rice. I got this.

Googled (well, I'm not that advanced) and read which countries are included (Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, etc.)
There is no such cuisine in the "fish" list, just as there is no Slavic one.Perhaps there are still such common kitchens: (Scandinavian, Balkan ...)
Conclusion. Isn't it easier to add? Or write a note that the author of the recipe, when creating it, may not have three culinary diplomas and this "kitchen" is purely his assumptions ... well, something like that ... not historians are all users! Or not write anything if you don't know for sure.

The total number of Slavs is 300-350 million people. The Western Slavs (Poles, Silesians, Slovins, Czechs, Slovaks, Kashubians, Moravians and Lusicans), Eastern Slavs (Belarusians, Russians, Ukrainians) and South Slavs (Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians, Slovenes, Montenegrins) stand out.

We are Eastern Slavs according to Vika.)

You can argue, you can debate, but I spent my entire childhood every summer in the Russian north among the Pomors, where neither the Tatar-Mongol yoke nor the Nazis reached. I also met the probaboks and ancestors of the Russian Pomors. The fact remains that it was not customary to cook dumplings there, or even (oh horror) dumplings. I have not met or eaten these dishes in any house, either at a feast or in everyday life.

[Larssevsk]

Larssevsk, and they cooked cabbage soup?

[Galina]

Galina, cooked only cabbage soup and potato cereal stews - soups. Well, the ear by itself. Somehow, they didn't grow beets too much, only in recent years. But radish, turnips, carrots in huge quantities



I forgot about the mushrooms. They cooked in all types, including the mushroom mold regularly

and I always believed that dumplings are not a primordially Russian dish, but that came to us from Asia, and they came there from China, and then, as its variations, and dumplings appeared, but in general there are no disputes over the history of dishes meaning ..)

It's easier to add a clarifying statement like:
"Most common in the kitchen" +++ and there according to the name drop-down list. countries. And where did it come from ... even from Mars)

controversy over the history of dishes is meaningless ..)

I agree) There are a large number of dishes that are very similar, but different nations have their own way of cooking and products (preferences) differ. Someone fish soup, and someone ear. Here the disassembly of what is what begins

I don’t know about dumplings at all, but with poppy seeds it seems to me exactly Ukrainian, I haven’t heard anything like that cooked anywhere else.
Pilaf for me is Uzbek, potato pancakes are Belarusian, and all together the cuisine of the peoples of the USSR means mine too.

draniki - Belarusian

And Resti (resti) is Swiss, and potato pancakes ... But essentially the same thing))))

Potato pancakes are best known here as pancakes. This is the Belarusian version of the dish. Ukrainians call them potato pancakes, terunks, kremzliks, and Russians call them kakorki, teruns, teruns, terunks, derriks. In Israel and the USA, they prepare potato pancakes - latkes, in the Czech Republic - brambraki.
This dish came to the Western Slavs from the German side. In Switzerland, such pancakes are called rösti, in Germany - raibecken or Kartoffelpuffer - just potato pancakes.

The main distinguishing feature of pancakes is that they are made from raw potatoes. Further options are possible:

[GTI Tatiana]

GTI Tatiana, in fact - potatoes, but nuances ...

[Anna67]

Anna67, well yes)
Or pilaf, for example, whose dish?

Researchers note that the history of pilaf began around the 2nd-3rd century BC. The first pilaf was made in India, as well as nomadic peoples in the Middle East. Although rice was cultivated in China much earlier than in India and the Middle East, the methods of preparing pilaf were not known in the Middle Kingdom.
Researchers of the world's culinary traditions believe that the recipe for pilaf was borrowed by the ancient Persians in India, where for millennia people made vegetarian varieties of stewed rice. The Persians began to add meat and poultry to pilaf, thereby inventing a new way of cooking the dish. Thousands of years ago, Indians began to add turmeric to pilaf, as well as saffron, this tradition has survived to this day.
It is interesting that such a dish as pilaf was originally referred to as a holiday dish and was served to the table exclusively on special occasions. It is also worth noting that there are references to pilaf in literary sources, for example, the famous medieval Arabic work "A Thousand and One Nights". It was from the eastern states and India that pilaf began its victorious march around the world.

The main distinguishing feature of pancakes is that they are made from raw potatoes.

... and the method of processing potatoes: finely grated, or in thin strips

[conditional definition of membership]

I found a great book. Written by William Pokhlebkin. Book title NATIONAL CUISINE OUR PEOPLES

The book was written by Pokhlebkin and published during the Soviet era, when we were still ONE country, and there was no fight "yours, my garden".

"This book does not include all the recipes for the national cuisines of the peoples of Russia and the Near Abroad. And at the same time it gives an idea of ​​the culinary skills of nations, ethnic groups that have their own, pronounced national cuisine."

In terms of content, the book is divided into sections of each of the national cuisines.

You can read more about the content of the book in the introductory part of the book.
The book can be purchased and downloaded from the internet.

Perhaps this Pokhlebkin encyclopedia can be used at home, for conditional definition of membership of this or that dish
Well, our culinary masters will also tell you what they have cooked since ancient times in their lands and regions, since there will always be a variation in dishes and the principle of their preparation, such as the same "pancakes, rösti", where the basis is raw potatoes, and the cutting method and additives are different , and they will be called differently based on the place of their preparation.

Today is the day of the EGGS! Happy Holidays everyone
And the question immediately arose: Is scrambled eggs a national dish?
And it turned out that yes. There are so many nationalities and recipes.
I think if a recipe is presented in full compliance with the rules of preparation and ingredients of a certain nationality (well, for example, risotto, pilaf, sushi, etc. rice is everywhere, but different), then it can be nationalized.

And if the recipe for pilaf is made from Krasnodar rice, then it has no nationality at all. Something like this.

[international]

Is scrambled eggs a national dish?

Omelette - international dish all over the world, especially among students

Scrambled eggs are an international dish around the world, especially among students

World Egg Day - cooking omelets, and other egg dishes!

In an all-round culinary competition. Australian. Dumplings were called a Polish dish.

In an all-round culinary competition. Australian. Dumplings were called a Polish dish.

If I understood correctly what I was talking about, then we had such a recipe
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=515068.0

They also wrap something up in every, probably, national cuisine. In tortillas, in pancakes, in pita bread, in dough, in vegetables, in leaves ... They twist everywhere))

Poles call dumplings pierogi. If you search in Google pictures of Pierogi (Polish Dumplings), you can see the most common "Russian" dumplings ...
Yesterday evening after this discussion I took a picture in a Polish store (with sauerkraut and mushrooms).



And yet, yes, dumplings, rather, Ukrainian / east. European than Russian dish.

And yet, yes, dumplings, rather, Ukrainian / east. European than Russian dish.

Well then, it's Chinese) Roots from there. And they came to Ukraine from Turkey

According to one version, the dumpling came to Ukraine from Turkey. To be honest, the Cossacks did not like the Turks, but their dish, which was called dush-vara, was to their taste. In Azerbaijani cuisine, there is even now a dish - dushbara, which outwardly resembles small dumplings or dumplings, but in those days when the Turks brought dush-vara to Ukraine, the Ukrainians first renamed the dish into varaniki, and then replaced the meat filling with a more familiar one, and Basurman food began to be called dumplings.

Here's another by name


The word "dumpling" does not require any special explanation: it is a boiled pie with berry, curd or other filling.

In this word, the root "var" comes from the Old Russian "to cook". True, there are many other dishes that are cooked, but the name associated with the verb "cook" stuck with only three dishes: jam, dumpling and varenets.

And about dumplings

Interesting!
To study the distribution of dumplings, scientists examined written documents of various kinds. The local population's acquaintance with dumplings is indicated, among other things, by the names associated with this dish: Pelmennikov, Pelmenev, or related to them. In the Urals, this "dumpling trail" begins to appear from the end of the 17th century. This means that at that time there were already people who were closely associated with the dumplings business. But until the middle of the 19th century, this dish was purely local, and in other regions of Russia, dumplings were exotic, they were called "Chinese pies" and were rarely cooked. This is reported by Rambler. Further: 🔗

Poles call dumplings pierogi

In Austria - Maultaschen. Any filling, cottage cheese, potatoes, pumpkin.

... I found 36 names of dumplings on the Internet. Rather, they are not national, but traditional. Each nationality has its own cooking traditions. And the essence is thin dough with filling.

["Boiled cheesecakes"]

The word "dumpling" does not require any special explanation: it is a boiled pie with berry, curd or other filling.
In this word, the root "var" comes from the Old Russian "to cook". True, there are many other dishes that are cooked, but the name associated with the verb "cook" stuck with only three dishes: jam, dumplings and varenets.

To develop this word: Cottage cheese pancakes, boiled

Elena Molokhovets has this "Boiled cheesecakes"

"Most common in the kitchen" +++ and there according to the name drop-down list. countries. And where did it come from ... even from Mars)

On the forum, practically it is
There is a section of the general direction of National cuisine https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_content&task=view&id=1444 and further on as belonging. The affiliation is not thoroughly checked, it is prepared on Mars-home kitchen, trust to the author of the recipe

Peace be with you bakers!

all the same names, only different: yes: somewhere in Africa they make the same dumplings \ maybe 100 years before their first mention \ but with the trunk of an elephant