French starters

Another question. Vicki writes that you need to feed with whole grain or 2 types of flour. If they are not there, then "Everything is lost, Lelik!"?

Where does Vicki write that? .... or does Vicki have progressive sclerosis?
Vicki feeds her sourdough exclusively with flour c. from. the cheapest (I bought a bag for her) for 5 - 10 grams. sourdough takes 100 - 150 gr. flour and water and feels great. But it will increase more than twice, I don’t give her, this is just the acidity that suits me.

[Viki]

Viki , I read another topic about sourdough bread in the oven.
One more question has matured in the course of reading. If as a result of storing the starter culture in the refrigerator at temp. below 10 degrees, lactic acid bacteria die, and only wild yeast remain, then why ALL SURVEY PRODUCTS are always stored at a low temperature, including medical nutrition and even in test tubes starter cultures and medicines? Moreover, in the same fermented kefir, acidity increases with time, which indicates the vital activity of these MCs of bacteria even at such low temperatures. And the leaven of bread reacts so painfully ... I can’t think of anything with storage — there is no desired 10-12 degrees in the house. Heat. summer ... In the refrigerator +5 in the fruit section. What to do?
Viki , please comment on my mistakes in the report on the first bread. I would like to try again. but there is no point in doing this. until I consider my miscalculations.

I'll start with the story of my acquaintance with leaven.
When they suddenly turned off the light, and the HP had already kneaded the dough, I had to take it out, mold it and bake it in the oven. I did everything wrong then, but I realized that my oven could bake. And then it began. I went to study the rules of molding. Accidentally stumbled upon GOSTs and so wanted that bread that from childhood. Darnitsky, a loaf for 22 kopecks ... And they are all dough. I began to put doughs for 4 - 5 hours, and then I found an article about leavens that replace doughs, that is, dough is always at hand. She raised everything in a row, reached 8 pcs. at the same time. I use leaven instead of dough to this day. I bake according to GOSTs. A pound of leaven in bread is my norm.
Regarding storage in the refrigerator, I can only say that you will get delicious bread no matter what, BUT the crumb structure will differ radically.
And I see two main mistakes in the first bread:
1. When the batch is over, I would turn off the stove, heating up here is like death. I would let it wander for 40-50 minutes and did the boning. Seconds 10 -15. Another 20 minutes of fermentation and out of the bucket.
2. On a dough sprinkled with flour (you can just on the table) you need to form a loaf. The easiest option is to pull up from all sides until it starts to crack. Then the proofing.

and here I am back. Shchaaa, Tortyzhechka, we will advise you from all sides of everything and a lot, and you will be with us, like seven nannies, child without an eye without bread I read what you write and we will understand

[Zest]

Zest, I've been waiting for you all evening !!! Where does such acidity come from ??? !!! Where is the joint?

This miracle of mine lay on a plate on the table all night. The husband asks in the morning: what kind of bread is so cool? I answer: This is the first pancake lumpy, do not eat, it is very sour and unsuccessful. I'll give it to the dogs, and I'll continue to study. We went to work. In the evening I look, my husband comes in with a slice of this bread and all glows with happiness: HERE IT !!!! This is the taste of my childhood !!!!!!! In the summer my father and I transported the apiary to Kazakhstan (to the flowering steppe), drove through small villages and bought bread at the general store. This is EXACTLY the taste.Oh my God!!! I close my eyes and see how I’m a 10-year-old boy in my father’s Moskvichka, shaking in the heat, the dusty dust is terrible (behind the tractors pulling trailers with beehives), and I’m chewing such a sour bitch and happy terribly !!!!
Well, I lost half of the bread ... I won't throw out the rest, maybe tomorrow he will want to remember the Kazakh steppes again.
Spire, well, what?

Let's go from the start. You have a good leaven, it rises impressively.

1. Get it out of the refrigerator immediately. Those lactic acid bacteria that live in sourdough have nothing to do with lactic acid foods and "theirs" bacteria.

2. My bread turns out to be completely NOT Sour, only in gray breads a barely noticeable sourness is observed. To do this, feed the starter culture in high proportions:

- pour out all your leaven that you take out of the refrigerator (just don't hit it painfully, but you can't put it into the bread anymore, don't be greedy), take ONE teaspoon of the leaven, add to 125 g of water and shake well until a white foam. There - 125 g of flour and mix with a fork. Take a risk to notice the volume of the mixture. By about morning, the leaven will double in size, watch the mark. As it has risen twice, you can bake. If you don't bake, you need to feed. But it makes no sense to feed the entire amount, the leaven is growing exponentially, soon at such a rate, you will be evicted from the house. Therefore, use it in baking or throw it away, feeding only 5-10 g of sourdough.

- if you decide to bake, and you have less leaven than is required by the recipe, then add flour-water to the required amount with a small margin, so that the leaven remains for procreation;

- Do you have a cellar? He is helping me a lot now. At least the pace. and rose there to 15 degrees, but still it's not 40.

3. Looks like you got the bread recipe? designed for thick fr. sourdough, hence such inconsistencies with water.

4. Made very long proofing with heating, from which the dough overextended.
5. For the bread, I took the initially acidified leaven.
6. Try to bake on dough (do exactly according to my recipe for baking in the oven, dough smooths out the acidity, if you don't overexpose it).
7. If you take a pure sourdough for baking, do not let it over-acid, it has risen 2 times - and enough, in its dough.

I have already answered the question of the difference between leaven and dough ... now I will find a fast, it is quite long, but in short, the main difference is in the concentration and stability of the existing symbiosis of microorganisms.

and the first breads in the oven were exactly the same as your photo, nostalgia appeared.

I don't seem to have forgotten anything. If anything, clarify))

Finding the Difference Between Sourdough and Dough

The line separating the leaven from the dough is very conditional, but it is still there.

Sourdough is a composition that causes fermentation, in a narrower sense - any organic substance, the introduction of which into the food environment causes the fermentation process.

"Dough is fermented dough seasoned with yeast or sourdough."

Sourdough dough is, in essence, always sponge dough.

Now about the essence of the difference between leaven and dough.

At the beginning of the process of growing sourdough in it, about forty species of IBC and more than a dozen species of wild yeast start a war. By the end of this process, the strongest ones survive and create a certain symbiosis in the finished sourdough - only two or three types of MK bacteria and wild yeast, which will determine the performance characteristics of your particular sourdough (lifting force, aroma, etc.). Even by growing several starters according to the same recipe, you can get starters of different quality. After a stable symbiosis of microorganisms has been established in the leaven, it can remain stable for many months and years (subject to proper storage and feeding), no microorganisms "from the outside" will take root here, they will be doomed to displacement and extinction. Lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast will constantly sterilize the ferment from unwanted microbes, releasing alcohol, as well as acetic and lactic acid during its fermentation.A real little world that protects itself from outside intrusions!

The sourdough is used as a source of organic acids and modified flour protein.

Bezoparnoe dough is the most deprived in this sense, it lacks taste and aroma, products from such dough quickly stale.

Sponge dough is a completely different song, with a deep taste and aroma, products from it do not stale much longer. And all thanks to the fact that they contain 2 times more organic acids.

A ripe starter culture (which has risen to its peak of growth) contains 20 times more various organic acids, and an acidic concentrated starter culture (the one that is allowed to mature after about 12 hours after aging) - even more. Therefore, the addition of these starter cultures can greatly improve the quality of the dough-free dough.

Happy owners of sourdoughs have a huge advantage over "horseless" housewives - the opportunity at any time to take ripe sourdough instead of sourdough in the sponge dough, and add the sourdough sourdough to the safe dough, resulting in fragrant, tasty, long-lasting products.

So, I would conclude that the sourdough differs from the sourdough in a higher concentration of organic acids and their variety, as well as the stability of the resulting symbiosis of microorganisms. We can easily replace the dough with sourdough, but on the contrary, it is already quite problematic. Rather, it is not problematic, but will require some work on growing sourdough-based sourdough.

Oh, I didn't want to write for so long, but in the process of answering myself, it became interesting to understand the differences between leaven and dough.

If the leaven is stored at temp. below + 10 *, then all MK bacteria die out, only wild yeast remains to multiply. Starter cultures stored in the refrigerator are always deprived in terms of MC bacteria and a variety of organic acids. They do not give the products the same deep bread aroma and taste as the leavens, which are fed and stored according to all the rules of art.

I ask you to take into account the moment that I am not a microbiologist, and I try to draw all conclusions from the point of view of the rudiments of knowledge on this subject and elementary logic

[About storage at temp. below 10 *.]

About storage at temp. below 10 *.

I am not a microbiologist and not a biochemist in order to monitor the death and revival of MK bacteria in a laboratory way. As I got carried away with sourdough baking, I began to read everything that came to hand on this topic. I take as an axiom the statement that MK bacteria die at temperatures below
+ 10 *. However, wild yeast continues to feel great and multiply with equal constancy and pleasure. Whoever doubts it will raise the bread.
But the photos posted in Ludmila's LJ were enough for me to refuse storing the sourdough in the refrigerator. She empirically tested how the cooled sourdough affects the structure of the crumb and crust, as well as the taste of bread. Unfortunately, many materials were not preserved in this LJ. Therefore, you can only take my word for it that the difference was more than significant - thicker and coarser crust, uninteresting crumb, insufficient rise, respectively, and the taste lagged behind by several orders of magnitude.
If at the beginning of her observations on different leavens Lyudmila still admitted the idea that after prolonged rejuvenation of the leaven from the refrigerator (by the way, in terms of labor costs equivalent to the removal of a new leaven) MK bacteria can be revived, then with the acquisition of sufficiently rich experience she completely rejected this possibility ... I came to the conclusion that freshening the sourdough from the refrigerator will not help bring back its unique taste and aroma.
If such an option suits someone so that only wild yeast picks up the bread, then no one insists on anything else. I made my choice. Each of us also has it.

The correct starter culture forms a symbiosis of lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast. MK bacteria feed on the by-products of yeast fermentation and in turn make the culture more acidic by releasing lactic acid, which prevents the ferment from deteriorating (since most microbes cannot survive in an acidic environment).
It was these starters that enriched the body with organic acids, vitamins, minerals, enzymes, fiber, mucus, pectin, biostimulants.

What will be the use of a leaven with wild yeast alone, I do not know. I like the complete product more.

Zest, well, give me a recipe and I'll go to bed! I have to work tomorrow morning! Straight off the hook, which is more successful! I'm going to feed this beautiful Frenchwoman of mine and buy. Till tomorrow. And tomorrow I will knead and watch her like a Tatar raids.
And I have a cellar! very nice and cold. The terrace is straight. And I forgot about him Thank you !!!!!

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9229.0

this one is for the oven.

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0

this one is for the bread maker.

- pour out all your leaven that you take out of the refrigerator (just don't hit it painfully, but you can't put it into the bread anymore, don't be greedy), take ONE teaspoon of the leaven, add to 125 g of water and shake well until a white foam. There - 125 g of flour and mix with a fork. Take a risk to notice the volume of the mixture. By about morning, the leaven will double in size, watch the mark. As it has risen twice, you can bake. If you don't bake, you need to feed. But it makes no sense to feed the entire amount, the leaven is growing exponentially, and soon at such a rate, you will be evicted from the house. Therefore, use in baking or throw away, feeding only 5-10 g of sourdough.

I'll make 250g of sourdough. The whole will go to bread. Leave 5 g in the jar, mix with 125 + 125 and put in the cellar? Or first the door has to double in size. and then into the rattle. Zest. do not hit! I will understand once and I will not pester

[st]

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0
Or this one is for a bread machine.
Now look. If you put bread on the first link on a dough for baking in the oven, then take now from your sourdough 1 st... l. for the establishment of dough for tomorrow morning, everything is detailed there,
and 1 more tsp. take for breeding, stir in 125 g of water + 125 g of flour. Let it stand for an hour at room temp., So that the process goes on, and then let it down to the cellar, it will mature there for itself. What's your pace there.?

If you follow the second link, then badyazh 1 tsp. sourdoughs with 125 g flour and 125 g water, leave at home until morning, by the morning ripe sourdough for bread will be ready. 200 g will go into bread, from the remainder you take 1 tsp, feed 125 + 125, leave it at home for an hour, and then lower it to the basement for storage.

Is it clear?))

[Cake]

Cake, if you wait until it grows twice, then you will put the already fermented, so to speak, ready-made sourdough in the cellar, and while it stands there in the cellar, it will definitely peroxide. I give her an hour so that the fermentation processes begin, and then I put it in a cool place to slow down the active growth of the starter culture (this is in the case when I am not going to bake after 6 hours after feeding). In general, if I want to bake in the morning, I feed it in the evening and do not hide it anywhere. If I'm going to bake in the evening, I feed in the morning.
Sorry for 5 kopecks

[kava]

kava , 5 kopecks is also money!

Zest, Now everything is clear!!!! I rewrote it. I’ll go to tear off the outdoor thermometer from the window and lower it into the cellar. I control the temperature in winter. and in the summer I don't care how it is. But now it doesn't matter !!! Tomorrow I'll tell you how it is with me. I went to feed.

[Vicky kava, Zest, Summer resident- everyone who does not consider my new hobby to be the whim of an aging woman and is ready to help and suggest

THANK YOU!center]

[Cake]

Cake

always happy to help))

what did you say about the whim?))) So we are so mnooooooooo All of you listed DO IT

But my friendship with the leaven does not work out in any way (n) I started to master it already in August last year and still nothing
I will put it, wander around, feed it, put it in the refrigerator - it dies: wow: Sometimes immediately, sometimes after a while. At first I kept it under the lid, then under the lid with holes ..
Now, a 2-week-old animal also lives, started it on old kefir and rye flour 1: 1, took it out of the refrigerator twice and baked it on it, but both times I added 1 tsp yeast for safety reasons. 500 gr. flour, fearing that the leaven will not work. I take it out in the evening, put it on the table, by the morning it increases 3 times, I feed it with kefir and flour 1: 1, it rises twice in 5 hours, I take half (or how much) I put on the dough, I feed the rest again, let it rise and put it in fridge.
Here's the day before yesterday's bread

I don't have a special form, so I baked it in silicone, it crawled out of there in 2 hours of proofing, and these "ears" were formed
The recipe was as follows:
- wheat flour "Makfa" 100gr
- flour CZ FOR 200gr.
- rye flour 200g.
- leaven 5 tbsp. heaped spoons
- yeast 1 tsp
-salt 1.5 tsp
- sugar 1.5 tbsp l.
-agram 1 tsp
-panifarin 2 tbsp. l.
-Glofa 1 tsp
- serum 240 ml.
- vegetable oil 2 tbsp. l.
knead in HP on pizza (45 min), then into the mold and into the oven with the light on for 2 hours.
Before that, she baked according to the same composition but in a round shape, defrosted it in a salad bowl lined with baking paper, then transferred it on paper to a thick-walled saucepan from Bergof, and baked in it. It rose well, but the paper stuck to the bottom of the bread and had to be moistened and peeled off, and the bread (sides and bottom) was not smooth, but corrugated from the bends of the paper that cut into the dough piece.
Girls, work on the mistakes, so I want a good bread !!!!

[Aunt Besya,]

Aunt Besya, I baked black bread with sourdough living in the refrigerator for 4 years. Naturally there probably lived only wild yeast, but the bread was still tasty.
If your sourdough rises 3 times, then you can bake good bread on it. Only the leaven itself, before putting the dough on it, needs to be fed 3-4 times, revived it.
I took the leaven out of the refrigerator and left it open in the kitchen for 1.5-2 hours. Then she poured quite a lot of room temperature water into it and stirred it properly. I poured some of this liquid into a clean jar - 1.5 cm high in the jar and fed 1 st. l. rye flour + 2 tbsp. l. wheat flour. As soon as the sourdough rose 2 times, left 1 st. l. sourdough and nourishment in the same proportion 3 times.
Such a leaven itself will raise bread without yeast in 4 hours.
As for the recipe, I don't understand why agram is needed if there is a live leaven. If you raise the dough without yeast, then the leaven will give itself sufficient acidity.
The dense crumb, in my opinion, turned out for two reasons:
- lack of fluid;
- insufficient proofing.
Well, too much for this form of dough. He simply had nowhere to grow.

[Aunt Besya]

Aunt Besya, from previous discussions, I concluded that leaven should NOT be stored in the refrigerator. In any case, the French. Maybe your reason for failure is this?
I also have some jambs. Already 2 times started the primary leaven on rye flour. water and malt. A day later I pulled out all the moldy. ALL. I decided that a day in summer is a lot, although it was checked on a water heater under the ceiling 35 *. The next time I kneaded at night before going to bed at 24, I removed it from the water heater at 18 ... Pockets of mold. straight caps are so gray I wanted to remove the top layer and use the bottom one (all the same, after all, throw away most of it!), but I remembered the docfilm about the mold and decided not to cultivate this nasty thing - its mycelium and spores permeated the entire product and I cannot isolate it by throwing out the top layer ... so 2 "abortions" More precisely, 3, after all, I also eliminated that peroxide ... I can't imagine why it began to bloom! Filtered boiled water, flour and malt are the same. capacity washed in 70 * dishwasher ....
I will try further!

[Cake]

Cake, and I just thought about you - how are you doing there with your foreigner. And here are those on Where did you get this mold? I turned on a French woman 2 times - and everything is OK. Even if I sometimes forget to feed and it will stop, the maximum is the stratification of the liquid in it, but even in this case, it lends itself to resuscitation. But no mold - not even a trace. I could, so I shared my own with you. I really want you to be able to grow it. I keep my fists.

[Cake,]

Cake, of course, the most delicious and aromatic bread is made with sourdough, which did not live in the refrigerator. She herself was convinced of this by making a French sourdough. But sourdough bread from the refrigerator is still better for my taste than without sourdough at all.
It's strange that you get mold on the sourdough ... Maybe you should add a teaspoon of honey at the sourdough factory? Honey is a good disinfectant. At least from E. coli, it protects the sourdough ...

I do not think to give up the idea of ​​baking with sourdough. so you can not even encourage me or persuade me. The question is resolved. They brought rye flour to me, I will try it with a different flour, in a different container and under the strictest hourly supervision. Everything will work out for sure, but I don't know when

[Cake]

Cake, how are you there? Since your posts in the printed form are kept in my most cherished place, then I am on "you". Literally like family, okay?

Girls, well, be stunned! Imagine, for almost the entire time I baked with sourdough. Rather, I thought so. Because my leaven was barely alive ... And then: I was terribly pleased with the result.

Then, when they explained a little to me on the forum what was what, I made a real Frenchwoman. What, it turns out, delicious bread on it! Fragrant.

By the simplicity of its production, I really liked "Bread without batch" from Lyudmila from her LiveJournal. It turned out well even without leaven. And with sourdough - .... go crazy!

Many thanks to everyone who took part in time.

Girls, well, I’m sorry I’ll throw away my leaven in November. I've been running around with her so much! Is it really necessary to change it in six months? Nobody tried to leave, I wonder?

[Luke]

Luke, of course "you", what a question ?!
I’m still starved. She took the front. and at work zaparka - I bake bread only on the "automatic" - threw and left. There is no time for creativity ... the girls on the forum promised to show icing (decoration), so it took 2 weeks, there was no strength to do ... Life, damn it, such a thing is fast! And so it flashes: morning-night-morning-night ...

good evening

finally decided to make sourdough bread ... after a long viewing she stopped at French. But then the question arose - in the review, the water is indicated in grams and not in ml. Maybe the questions are stupid - but a gram in 1 ml of water.

And one more question: according to some recipes, malt (10 grams) is added to frenchyuzaquasc, but not to some. Which starter culture is better - with malt or not?

thanks in advance for your answer

1 ml of water weighs 1 gram.

Water in grams = water in milliliters. Malt is needed at the first stage of the sourdough culture and is added to all recipes (when it comes to making sourdough, not dough).

Thank you all .... one more question ... on the second day half of the leaven is taken, but where does the second half go? it is then used or squeezed out .... if only half is needed, why not use only half of the specified recipe on the first day?

And the other half, as you rightly noted, is thrown away. And if you start a smaller amount from the very beginning, then the leaven will not work - such a technology. Some have already checked, but alas ...

Kava, my sourdough turned out when I initially took the amount of ingredients 2 times smaller

kava thank you ... is this recipe a steam or sourdough? he is from Ludmila's LiveJournal site, which many are citing here .. without malt, but called sourdough

French traditional sourdough
Day 1.100g of whole rye flour (black rye). 120g water at room temperature. Stir and leave for 24 hours at room T.
Day 2. Take half the rye mixture, add 200g white wheat flour and 60g cold water (5C). stir and leave for 18 hours at room T.
Nothing much happened. Nothing. This mixture is too jelly and sour for it to rise.
Despite the fact that this mixture did not rise in volume, signs of fermentation are clearly visible in the thickness of the mixture.
Day 3. Take 300 g of the resulting mixture and add to it 300 g of white wheat flour and 150 g of cold water (5C). Knead a dense dough, leave to ferment for 12 hours at room T.
Weighing 450g of fresh cool unleavened dough and 300g of the previous mixture.
Blend number three has grown slightly in volume, by about 50%
Day 4. Take 200 g of the resulting sourdough, 200 g of white wheat flour, 110 g of cold water (5C). Knead, cover and leave to ferment for 8 hours at room T.
At this stage, the leaven has tripled in volume.
After this period, take 200 g of the resulting sourdough, add 200 g of flour 110 g of cold water (5C), knead and leave for 24 hours in a REFRIGERATOR (6-8C). The traditional French sourdough can then be directly used in bread dough.

[LaraN]

LaraN, then you are more fortunate than Zest and me.
Flyer, I started the French 2 times - the first when Lyudmila's LiveJournal was still open
I quote:
Erik Kaiser's modern liquid starter

Monday 8 am.

Mix 100g of dark rye flour, 120g of water at 40C, 10g malt. Beat until smooth, leave to ferment at 30-40C for 24 hours. It is a leaven. The photo shows how it looks after 24 hours of warm wandering. Take half of this sourdough and feed. Discard the rest or use to create the thick starter recipe above.
The complete technology is here 🔗

The second time I started from the photo of the master class Viki (post # 2 in this thread). As you can see, both varieties contain malt.

[Flyer]

Kava, my sourdough turned out when I initially took the amount of ingredients 2 times smaller

You are just lucky Either the hand is light, or the stars have stood up like that. Usually, you have to reckon with the fact that there is a certain critical mass of ingredients, when using which the correct ratio of microorganisms is achieved. With a decrease in this amount, there is a very high risk that putrefactive bacteria or some other byaka will "defeat" in the leaven, and nothing will come of it in the end.

Therefore, it is better not to take risks, follow the recipe, without reducing anything.

Flyer

It is a leaven.

... but malt - well, we don't have it - can there be anything in the leaven or not? Or is it possible to do without it at all?

oh super! I'll try refueling from EC. I'll just buy malt

Zest, do you make your dressing with malt or not? I confess it was your breads that prompted me to such a feat

[Flyer]

Flyer

thanks for the kind words.

Yes, I grew Eric Kaiser's liquid sourdough, the recipe requires malt. I read that malt can be replaced with honey, but I haven't tried it myself, so I can't say that everything will work out for sure.
You try to contact the bakers in your city, should tell you where you can buy it. Or someone will send it by mail. We often practice this here.

[Flyer]

Flyer

Oh, so you are from Moscow. See here
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=337.0, you can buy absolutely everything.

I live in Moscow, so I have already read where you can find malt here .. just about, at the All-Russian Exhibition Center

another question, sorry to torture

in the EC recipe it is written that the second dough is prepared from 110 g of the first dough ... while the first dough, based on the number of ingredients, should have been 300-350 grams (First dough. 110 g of sourdough, 110 wheat flour, 110 g of warm water) ... I understand correctly that in this case, too, we throw out part of the leaven? etc?

Yes, every time we feed a part, and throw out the rest.

thank you so much kava and zest!

where is Tortyzhka with its leaven and its troubles? My leaven, which served faithfully for almost a year, rested in Bose, I had to grow a new one. But with the new one there were reminders of Tortyzhka. The first attempt was moldy.

Therefore, advice from my own experience:

- look for real rye wallpaper flour;
- do not cover too zealously, so as not to overwhelm;
- do not look for too warm humid place, now it is so warm everywhere.

I raised a second Frenchwoman without problems, transferred part of Celestine to Kiev, now I will ask, to the fullest extent of the law, how she observes her and bakes bread

Girls, my leaven (or rather the embryo) is three days old today. In the morning I fed her, she was sour, and now I feed her - sour-bitter. Something is wrong? I gave a swing. According to the recipe from the first page, when I diluted and added flour, instead of wheat I added rye. According to (my) logic, there should be nothing terrible in this. And in fact? I am now without a camera, I cannot show what comes out.Not exactly like Vicky's in the pictures. But the smell is nice. Bubbles, sourness. And now here is the bitterness.

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock

, Christmas trees ... it never crossed my mind to try it while growing.
Not scary, I think. Bring the process to the end, then add one more action in the last paragraph. Then we'll figure it out. But everything should work out
Do not be guided by the pictures, there is an ideal. For the first time I had to dry out the leaven to make it work. And we will teach yours

With the next feeding, leave a little of the old sourdough and add flour and water 2-3 times more than the sourdough, make it thicker than on the pancakes and put it in a warm place. Growth will be activated and bitterness will go away.

[Zest]

Zest, Summer resident, Thank you.

Thank you)) Yes, I went with one child to the resort, and brought another one

It multiplies faster than I eat it, I already have 3 jars ... and this, I suppose, is not a chapel ... and why am I so pitying ... or I have such a sense of duty, since I promised to keep it, so by complete ..

[Celestine]

Celestine
Eeee, slow down, multiply in one bank, otherwise she will evict you from the apartment

It's okay! My maximum number of jars reached 12. And then suddenly there were two. Even considering that the leavens were different, patience always comes to an end.

Damn, I wrote a post early in the morning, I'm waiting for an answer, but apparently I forgot to send it. My sourdough doesn't work very well. Rare such bubbles. When it was rye, something happened in it, but now it is completely deaf. Maybe I fed her too often? In the morning I didn't feed, left it to my husband, but both returned late, and no one was going to run away from me, such sluggish bubbles, although a day had already passed. Maybe she's cold? Maybe French sourdough is for specialists, and not for beginners?