French starters

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock I don’t have a special stone, but as they say, the need for inventions is cunning, I didn’t have a cauldron either, so I put the bread in a bowl on paper, cut it, and then, along with the same paper, dragged it onto a baking sheet, threw pieces of ice down onto the second baking sheet to create steam, the baking sheet is hot and the bottom sets quickly, and in general, practically nothing spreads.
Freken Bok, it seems to me that everything should work out, especially since you have a stone, but I don't have it. I wish you success, and I will keep my fists for you.

Freken Bock, I referred to Italian to show that even batter lags behind baking paper, it is the dough, not the finished bread. That is, if you put it in a salad bowl on paper, then you should carefully transfer it to a stone and if it sticks somewhere, from the sides, you can carefully separate the paper from the dough, but I'm generally silent about the finished bread - with a bang.

PS is good - it would be better to feed it 2-3 times more "empty" before putting bread dough on it.

How is it? And for what?

Dear friends! Happy New Year to you!
Please help who can !!! I don't have scales at home, so maybe someone will tell me how much it is in spoons, milliliters, etc. 38g sourdough, 52g wheat flour, 4g rye flour, 7g rye flour, 1g yeast, 11g salt
I really want to have this bread on the New Year's table!
And another question: after storage in the refrigerator, the leaven should be somehow revived or not, if so, how?

Try to decide on your own here on this topic https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8236.0

PS is good - it would be better to feed it 2-3 times more "empty" before putting bread dough on it.

How is it? And for what?

This means you feed the starter culture, it grows to the maximum, take away a part, feed it, wait for the increase and only then bake. This is done in order to give the leaven strength and at the same time see how it grows, how long it takes.
After the refrigerator, of course, it is advisable to warm the leaven, feed it and only then throw it into battle.

Something does not work out the leaven At the first stage it does not ferment, and at the next stage too. Today I bought fresh rye flour, put it 4 times ...

The most important thing is not to hang your nose. Determine the starter culture in a warm place, closer to the battery, swing your hand in it, share the bacteria, so to speak.

Something does not work out the leaven At the first stage it does not ferment, and at the next stage too. Today I bought fresh rye flour, put it 4 times ...

Do not give up. It's always like this with me. She doesn't bubble up to the last. Then I keep her warm until victorious, and she rushes foolishly. This is the scenario all the time. If there is a sour milky smell mixed with a pleasant smell of mash, it ferments, just not as intensely as we would like and has not visually shown its work yet. Has not entered into force. For bubbling to show itself, the main thing is warmth. Moderate but warm.
I already made Kalvelevskaya 6 times - I filled my hand.

Yesterday there was another run over to Pain au levain naturel. I feel uncomfortable even. If I got you already, you just tell me: "Tanya, go to FIG!" Well, for now, here he is. Things went swimmingly. Handsome, got up remarkably, jumped out of the basket at once. A wonderful shape ... But here I do not find a spray bottle in the right place. He disappeared during the pre-New Year's cleaning. Where has gone - no one knows. While I was looking for it, my bread was uncontrollably striving for a pancake state. Later I realized that I had mixed it a little. She did everything in time, like Lyudmila's, but for our torment this is obviously a bit too long: it didn’t work out too much. But I tend to keep going.
🔗

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What other figs !!!! Tanya, what are you doing! Looking at your feat, I also decided to swing at this bread. In general, I'm starting to knead. Oh, I don't know what will come of it ...

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock Oh, Tanya ... It's just a song, not bread ... I sit here, admiring, swallowing saliva ... And what incisions are! Oh well song simply about love...
Scarecrow And I can't add up to the leaven ... I refreshed it yesterday and in the warmth by about 27 degrees ... Well, it has risen up (twice), but does not want to go down. I held it for a little over three hours. So I froze Well, I put it on the windowsill in this form and put it up ... And now what to do ... I’ll go to rejuvenate it again, or something ... Maybe in vain I’m suffering ... Maybe I’ll throw it out and not suffer for me either, neither to her?

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow And I can't add up to the leaven ... I refreshed it yesterday and in the warmth by about 27 degrees ... Well, it has risen up (twice), but does not want to go down. I held it for a little over three hours. So I froze Well, I put it on the windowsill in this form and put it up ... And now what to do ... I’ll go to rejuvenate it again, or something ... Maybe in vain I’m suffering ... Maybe I’ll throw it out and not suffer for me either, neither to her?

It will not fall off directly, it will freeze or sag slightly. Everything is correct. Soften further.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow
I report further: after yesterday's taste, the leaven became sour and slightly bitter. I softened it (150: 150: 90) and kept it warm for an hour. Then she put it on the windowsill again. This morning I grinded it again (the taste changed, it became slightly sour and the bitterness was gone, the smell was fermented), put it to a warm battery. It rose about twice in eight hours ... This is my "reactive" one ... Now I want to grind it again for the night. Maybe you can already put the dough on it overnight? Or wait a little longer?

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl

In-oh-oh-from, already good. So before that, you had a little bit of peroxidation, it looked like a stretching paste - these are the acids secreted by the ICD spoiled the gluten. If now it rises well and confidently, today you can put the dough on it.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow
This morning I discovered that my leaven had almost tripled in size, and eight hours had passed. By the way, I made her younger from almost 1 tbsp. l. Everything else went into pancakes, delicious, bubbly! In general, it was possible to put it today, but in the morning I had a steam in time ... Now I will put the dough on the bread for the night ... And this is the question: should the dough on the bread have the same consistency as the leaven? That is, a little softer than dumplings and terribly sticky? I am afraid that, as in the commercials they show, my leaven will not raise the dough-bun. Or will it raise it in 8 hours, and the dough can turn acid in such a time?

If you are a beginner and have no idea how a bun for bread should look like, go and have a look at the photos in the corresponding section of this site, and secondly, do not be guided by the consistency of the leaven. This is not a standard, it is just leaven. A bread roll is usually a little more elastic, standing and absorbing water - practically non-sticky. In general - look at the photos, it's hard to explain on the fingers. It is very convenient to knead the dough in KhP, and to let the formed bread stand in an oven not switched on with a liter mug of boiling water. This is me so, suddenly you do not know, as a hint.

She will raise any bread bun from you, do not be afraid. It's yeast, just not tame. Does regular yeast pick up? And these will raise.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow No, what a newbie there is ... Of course I have an idea about the bun ... I'm more of a beginner in baking with sourdough. I just thought it might be easier for her (sourdough) to raise the dough if it is not so dense ... my dough rises at once!
I will knead in HP, but with baked goods ... troubles. My stove is still heating no higher than 160, the regulator has broken down, they promised to get the necessary part after the holidays, maybe it will be possible to fix it. In the meantime ... In general, or baking at 160 in the oven or a bread maker. I understand that both options are not a fountain, but so far we have what we have. Well, in general, I'll take a chance.

A! Well, then everything should be OK and you shouldn't have any difficulties. Sourdough bread does not differ in consistency from yeast bread. In the end - knead in HP in several steps (with breaks for hydration and mixing in oil, if you have it provided in the recipe), let it stand in a bucket, then turn on the baking mode. The only thing is that simple bread without additives on sourdough in KhP practically does not brown.

Because 160 degrees in the oven is not enough.

[Scarecrow]

Here is my work this morning - Plain white on Calvel's sourdough ... I made it according to the recipe (in half size), which I read from Chuchelka on another site ...Scarecrow, Well, just a huge THANKS to you for the science and participation, because without you this simply would not have happened ... Thank you for not giving up! This is for you
Now my second bread is being parted according to the same recipe, since less than half of the first one is left I will bake in KhP until I fix the oven ...







As always, there is a question. When baking, I almost did not feel the smell of bread, is this always the case if you bake a starter dough in KhP?
And one more thing: how do you dispose of the dough if it has already begun to sour? Mine have rejected slightly sour pancakes with sourdough, I will eat myself

[Zest]

I also want to say THANKS Zest for all her comments about the leaven, which I have outlined and read out to the holes, one might say ... For me it was like a revelation that you can soften the leaven 1 to 20, and many other things. Here's what else amazed and I can't help but share - a very elastic crumb, compressed takes its original shape ... Demonstrated as a trick to my family, looked with open mouth And there are almost no crumbs ... In general, I have already read all this somewhere here in at the very beginning, but when it happens to you ... I am completely lost

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl, on account of the pallor of leavened breads when baking in KhP, someone has already said that they turn out pale. I came across this myself. The temperature is not so high in HP as in the oven. This is fixable - you can increase the baking time, or you can switch to baking in the oven (which many of the starters did).

The crumb is exactly the elastic rubbery - a feature of sourdough bread.
Good bread! Well done!

And as for the peroxide leaven, yes - we will dispose of it. We leave a little, soften and bake again.

[kava]

kava, ukka , Freken Bock
Girls, thanks !!! I have a double holiday today - Christmas and First Normal Sourdough Bread
All Merry Christmas and good bread !!!

[Zest]

I also want to say THANKS Zest for all her comments about the leaven, which I have outlined and read out to the holes, one might say ... For me it was like a revelation that you can soften the leaven 1 to 20, and many other things. I'm in complete loss

nope, it's me in complete loss. Killed and killed on the spot Neither give nor take - the works of K. Marx and F. Engels

Good bread turned out. Congratulations

But even with sourdough, the bread in the bread maker turns out to be ruddy. Pallor is a sign that the leaven is in insufficient tone, it is necessary to feed it a little more in an active rhythm.
When baking sourdough bread in a bread maker, I always have one problem - the stirrer remains in the bread, so I have already given away the bread together with the stirrer several times inadvertently.

BlackHairedGirl

You made me a sooooo nice Christmas present too. It is incredibly pleasant to know that my advice was useful to you.
Happy Christmas and a good sourdough bread

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl

Yes !!! It worked!

The roof of simple leavened bread (which is without baking, i.e. milk, eggs, butter) is always pale, this is normal. And there was no strong smell precisely because it does not bake strongly (it smells like a baked crust).

And the crumb is really good, congratulations from the bottom of my heart !!

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl

Do you just bake bread in the Bake mode? So there the temperature regime is insufficient.It is better to sit in the oven or adjust it under the French or Whole Grain mode if there is no oven

[Zest]

Zest Then you probably need to take out the mixer and put it on the timer? It takes me 7-8 hours. I'll try next time. It's a pity, there are no parameters, what temperature is given by the French or Wholegrain mode.

[Zest]

Zest Then you probably need to take out the mixer and put it on the timer? It takes me 7-8 hours. I'll try next time. It's a pity, there are no parameters, what temperature is given by the French or Wholegrain mode.

Everything will turn out. If, all the more, you add dry yeast for stability as Zest loves - everything will turn out entirely on the "French" program. On the "Baking" program, the temperature regime is really low. True, the bread is baked normally, but a little pale.

French with Calvel's sourdough

At the bottom of the sourdough post is my French on Calvel's sourdough in HP. No changes in the program, pulling out the scapula and nothing more! leavened without yeast. Add 0.5 or 1 tsp. dry yeast to be sure and everything will turn out unambiguously.

Oops, 7-8 hours of proofing is sooo much. During this time, the sourdough has time to process all the flour added to the bread, and you are already baking the pure sourdough. Hence the pallor of the bread ...
And if the leaven does not raise the bread in 2 - 3 hours, then you need to grow a new one

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl, try experiment for the sake of this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0 I understand that you have a very active leaven. Everything will work out! And the stirrer can be removed afterwards

[Zest]

Zest

And if the leaven does not raise the bread in 2 - 3 hours, then you need to grow a new one

Oh nooo ... I just won't raise my hand now to say goodbye to her Maybe later somehow ... but just not now ... let him live for now ...
By the way, my bread is not sour at all. I rejuvenate with 1 tbsp. l. sourdough. But in 2-3 hours she definitely does not raise bread, I looked into the KhP. Now the second bread is baked. Also albino, like the first. I will not expose a photo, they are similar, like twin brothers, only the roof is slightly different. Baking 45 min. In general, you should try on the French mode. Possibly with very little yeast. It's not really what I'm aiming for, though.
Freken Bock
I rewrote the recipe, thanks! True, at the same time I re-read the whole Temka, and Donna Rosa's recalculation for 150 g of leaven is more suitable for me. I'll have to try it.
Scarecrow
I have your French recipe. Maybe knead the dough on the mode, and then put it on the French mode without a spatula? And there will be enough time. Still, I don't want to add yeast.

But I still can't ... The leaven is not that 3 times - it does not even increase 2 times ... Probably the hands are in the wrong place

How many days are leavened? What is the temperature in the room? What are you covering from above? Everything in order: what they did to make it easier to find out where the puncture is.

Hello everyone! I’m new in the starter culture, and have already managed to "naughty" I confused the time and did the procedure for 3 days with the traditional thick starter culture 7 hours earlier How can I save the animal now? Help advice

Z. Y. And another question - in recipes the percentage of "wetness" is often indicated, or something, - for example, you need a starter culture of 100% hydration, or 85%. How to determine the hydration of the cultured sourdough and, if necessary, change it?

Sourdough 100% hydration - for every 100 gr. flour accounts for 100 gr. water.
Starter culture 85% hydration - for every 100 gr. flour is 85 gr. water.

I confused the time and did the procedure 3 days with the traditional thick sourdough 7 hours earlier. How can I save the animal now?

Let her stand as much as it was originally supposed to, and then, but strictly in time, repeat the feeding.
I think that in two days we will be able to ask how she feels, but for now we need to finish growing. Good luck to you!

How many days are leavened? What is the temperature in the room? What are you covering from above? Everything in order: what they did to make it easier to find out where the puncture is.

The sourdough was in the refrigerator after the last feeding from the 6th. Last night I put it in the oven at 30-40 grams for the night, this morning it went up about 2 times, maybe a little more. I put a dough on it, but the dough has not yet increased in volume. I just fed the sourdough one more time (I took 120 ml of sourdough and added 110 grams of flour and water each) I cover the jar with a lid so that there would be a gap.

[WILY]

WILY, and what is the temperature in your refrigerator and why did you not feed the sourdough from the 6th (this is 4 days)?

Firstly, a French woman must be kept at a temperature of at least 10 -12 * (otherwise it is no longer French)
Secondly, feed the rarest - once a day (I feed twice - in the morning and in the evening every 12 hours)
Thirdly, on a hungry sourdough (and you have it like that), the dough is not started, it should be strong and active
Fourth, where did you get such proportions for feeding? It is most optimal to take 50 grams of starter culture, shake it with 100 ml of water until foamy, and then stir in another 100 g of flour.

Let me assume that you will somehow rehabilitate the leaven, but it will definitely not be French. For this, it is necessary to strictly observe the entire technology of not only cultivation, but also maintenance. I would raise a new one.

[Viki]

Viki,Kava 🔗
If my observations on French sourdough are relevant, then I want to say that, according to my observations, the ambient temperature of + 12 * C is already critical ... the temperature was + 12 * C for about 7 hours. It (Sourdough!) Bubbled, stood as a dome, but did not rise above 2 levels, as it froze ... Lost its airy porosity, elastic ductility, creamy milk aroma, it smelled just sour. For three days I revived her. Now, thank God, she came to life. Conclusion: do not keep the Sourdough at + 12 * C. She is more comfortable in room conditions!

If my observations on French sourdough are appropriate, then I want to say that, according to my observations, the ambient temperature of + 12 * C is already critical ... It is more comfortable in room conditions!

I agree to all 100! In the summer, she saved the leaven from the heat in the cellar, but noticed that the old woman began to "hand over" ... I had to alternate seclusion in the cellar with staying in the house. But, nevertheless, it was necessary to grow a new leaven after that. I am sensitive to smells, and my nose began to catch notes that were not pleasant for me.
So, I prefer not to store at the tempo. below 15-18 * С.

[Scarecrows]

Girls and boys! Here's what I got This is a recipe for French Calvel sourdough bread Scarecrows... Natashik, thank you so much Khlebushek turned out to be soft, reddened, however, the roof pumped up a little, because when I took out the shovel, I forgot to grease my hands with oil! Kneading on the Pelmeni mode without salt and oil, rest for 30 minutes, again kneading with salt and oil, take out the spatula. We give an hour of rest and turn on the French bread mode. And not a gram of yeast, everything is leavened. The bread is not sour at all and is very tasty. BUT - again, almost no smell when baking. But why??? Who knows???

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl

Oh, I don’t know ... 6 hours of the last proofing is incomprehensible to me ...

During this time, my leaven would “eat up” all the flour and would not leave the slightest sources for the spirit and aroma of bread ...

[Zest]

Zest

Oh, I don’t know ... 6 hours of the last proofing is incomprehensible to me ...

How many is not a lot? Maximum? And at what temperature? Am I feeding the wrong way? I feed her once a day. Store at 15-17 degrees. on the windowsill, below I have nowhere. Maybe the last proofing should be 30 degrees?

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl

For my sourdough, I usually take the recipe for Simple white sourdough bread (a recipe in Ludmila's LJ) as a "measure" of strength and strength, which is prepared without a gram of yeast, using one sourdough.

According to the recipe for bread goes:
- 340 g of sourdough,
- 400 g flour,
- 10 g of salt,
- 1-2 tbsp. l oil (optional),
- 200 g of water.

First, knead the dough without salt and fat, let it ferment for about an hour. Then we knead with salt, add butter at the end, shape the bread.

Here I send it for proofing in the oven with the light on (this is about 30 * C). On average, it rises in 1.5 - 2 hours. If this does not happen, then the leaven is completely weakened, not in good shape, does not feel well, you have to reanimate.

Zest I feed her once a day. Store at 15-17 degrees. on the windowsill, below I have nowhere.Maybe the last proofing should be 30 degrees?

I now store it on the windowsill at about the same temperature, I feed it once or twice a day. With that you are all right. Please also note that when feeding, the leaven should not receive less flour than it contains itself. I feed the leftovers on the walls with 100 g of water and 100 g of flour, with this proportion I can afford to feed the beauty once or twice a day.

[WILY]

WILY, and what is the temperature in your refrigerator and why did you not feed the sourdough from the 6th (this is 4 days)?

Firstly, a French woman must be kept at a temperature of at least 10 -12 * (otherwise it is no longer French)
Secondly, feed the rarest - once a day (I feed twice - in the morning and in the evening every 12 hours)
Thirdly, on a hungry sourdough (and you have it like that), the dough is not started, it should be strong and active
Fourth, where did you get such proportions for feeding? It is most optimal to take 50 grams of starter culture, shake it with 100 ml of water until foamy, and then stir in another 100 g of flour.

Let me assume that you will somehow rehabilitate the leaven, but it will definitely not be French. For this, it is necessary to strictly observe the entire technology of not only cultivation, but also maintenance. I would raise a new one.

1. I was afraid that it would deteriorate during this time (see item 2) I did not know, I will take it into account.
2. We went to rest, so I didn't do it for so long.
3. Got it.
4. From the recipe on page 1.

[WILY]

WILY, the first post contains a detailed technology for growing a sourdough from scratch until ready (that is, until the moment the dough is kneaded) And you have not grown it yet (as it turns out)

Try to plan your schedule in such a way as to feed strictly on schedule during rearing, otherwise you have devils that will grow there (mostly wild yeast species), and not at all French

Such long breaks in feeding and for an adult sourdough are life-threatening, and even more so for the undeveloped.

I gave the proportions for feeding the ready-made sourdough

[Zest]

Zest Usually I take half of the sourdough for bread, this is about 150 grams, and what remains is 120 grams - maximum 150 grams - I mash it in warm water in an amount of 90 ml, then I add 150 grams of flour weighed on a scale. I cover it with a cellophane bag, put it in a MV with a mug of boiling water for an hour, then take it out and transfer it to the windowsill. And I haven't fed for three days. Then I feed and use it in the dough. Or - for three hours there, in MV, with a mug of boiling water, then on the windowsill, and leave it for one day. Then I feed and use. Thus, I feed once every one to three days. This scheme was suggested by Lyudmila in her LiveJournal.
Sometimes I take all the leaven, and then 20-30 grams remain on the walls, but I soften it the same way - 90 ml of warm water and 150 grams of flour. I put it back in the heat for an hour and then on the cool windowsill. If I want it not to over-acid, add a little salt. So?

[Zest]

Zest Usually I take half of the sourdough for bread, this is about 150 grams, and what remains is 120 grams - maximum 150 grams - I mash it in warm water in an amount of 90 ml, then I add 150 grams of flour weighed on a scale. I cover it with a cellophane bag, put it in a MV with a mug of boiling water for an hour, then take it out and transfer it to the windowsill. And I haven't fed for three days. Then I feed and use it in the dough. Or - for three hours there, in MV, with a mug of boiling water, then on the windowsill, and leave it for one day. Then I feed and use. Thus, I feed once every one to three days. This scheme was suggested by Lyudmila in her LiveJournal.
Sometimes I take all the leaven, and then 20-30 grams remain on the walls, but I soften it the same way - 90 ml of warm water and 150 grams of flour. I put it back in the heat for an hour and then on the cool windowsill. If I want it not to over-acid, add a little salt. So?

Why do you store such a large amount of leaven?

[himichka]

himichka For me, the amount of starter culture is about 300 grams, because the recipes that I have tried use 150, maximum 340 grams of starter culture ... Normal, in my opinion, and very convenient. Either I take half of the available one, i.e.150 gr, and I feed the rest, or I take all, and what is washed off the walls is enough for procreation

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl

I seem to know Ludmila's LJ, but I've never seen such a feeding scheme. It doesn't matter.
I will say from my own experience that in this mode, the leaven is simply starving.

Let's say you took 150 g of sourdough for further feeding and added 150 g of flour there. It turns out that for about 75 g of flour in sourdough you gave 150 g of fresh flour. With such a proportion, my sourdough will reach its maximum growth in 6 hours ... well, it will be possible to wait a couple of hours more, and then feed it again, but then hungry faints will begin and a complete loss of strength.With such a proportion, you cannot feed the sourdough just once every two to three days. So we ended up with an exhausted sourdough.

We have approximately the same storage and maintenance conditions. Try to revive your starter culture. During resuscitation, do not send the starter culture to the windowsill, keep it at room temperature, even on the kitchen table.

Take from one that has 100 g and feed in a 1 to 1 ratio - that is, add 50 g flour and 50 g water.
When it doubles in volume - add 100 g of flour and 100 g of water to it, how it doubles in volume -
take 100 g of the mass and feed 50 g of flour and 50 g of water,
then once again - feed 100 g of sourdough with 50 g of flour and 50 g of water.

Should be okay. Dispose of the excess (either use in baking, or throw away).

Do not take such long breaks between feedings.
Our conditions of detention are about the same, so take the one I am using now for the worked out scheme - the residues on the walls (this is a maximum of 20 g) feed 100 g of flour and 100 g of water, so with this proportion you can allow you to feed once or twice a day.

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl, himichka right - there is absolutely no need to contain such an amount of leaven. The best option is to feed the leftovers (no more than 20 g) for bread (and this can be 300 and 400 g) in high proportions (for example, 100 g of water / flour) and leave it alone. Or is your leaven thick? In any case, do not be greedy and throw away the leftovers.

No steam needed (it is used only for dough or for proving bread, not for feeding the leaven)!

It is impossible to feed once every three days and even such a scanty amount. Feed at least once a day.

It turns out that you use a hungry sourdough weakened in a semi-faint state, and it eats it already in your bread (6 hours - this is a new ready-made sourdough)

Zest I told you almost the same thing