Yeast - types, use, bookmark, selection

[sugar]

If you can not destroy the yeast from the very beginning with preservatives (and sugar it is a preservative, its destructive property based on that - osmotic extraction of water from living cells), then you can immediately do so.

Yeast creatures are fragile, they are supposed to be protected from negativity. Move away from salt, move away from oil, move away from sugar ... We feed either with a weak sweet solution, or with flour.

Lena, but highlight this in your posts in red. Not even blue, but red, in view of its importance.

Lenochka, where exactly can you read about this?

And it’s not the first time that Inna has asked, and the first time I didn’t understand.
Where exactly to read ?? The Internet is now full of grief for masters like me, you can read a lot of garbage.

[Susan]

Susan, you can bake without oil. You can bake without any oil at all. You can bake in the post with the addition of vegetable oil. Vegetable oil affects the crumb, butter on the crust. According to my observations - with vegetable oil the bread becomes stale a little more slowly. According to the recipe, vegetable oil is not added to the sliced ​​loaf, but I've started to add it in addition to butter.
When to pour out the yeast - when baking with sourdough, I put the yeast between flour and water. That is, down salt / sugar, then flour, then sourdough, then water. I simply crumbled fresh yeast by hand and did not dilute it in water.

[Fresh yeast]

Fresh yeast ... you can try to "revive" them: grind in a spoonful of warm water with the addition of 1 tsp. Sahara.

What i do exactly for baking in KhP. I have a process from start to finish - in a bread maker, and not in a separate container or on the table.

Too high sugar content also interferes with the activity of yeast. The sugar concentration within 5% (or 25 grams per 500 grams of flour) promotes the fermentation process, and the concentration above 10% (or 50 grams per 500 grams of flour) interferes.

For plain bread, there is very little sugar in the recipe. I have for 400 g of flour and 7 g of compressed yeast, Total 4 grams of sugar - this is only 1%. And for low-yeast bread (6 hours within the HP programs), even less, 0.5% per 3 g of yeast.

The dough must be at least two and a half to three hours (dividing time for yeast cells) for the total amount of yeast in the dough to double. Yes, you can increase the rate of yeast multiplication, but organic mixtures are of no small importance in making bread, which form slowly and give the finished product a rich taste and aroma.

Increasing the proofing time in HP is possible with some changes.

In any case, the baking technology in HP is more specific and here it is necessary to consider this technology together with the proportions of the recipe, and not separately. If the balance proper for HP is violated, then the result is corresponding - clumsy. It's my opinion.

Please, if you say something, then finish and explain more clearly. And don't forget that technology depends on certain conditions, which not every advice fits into.
Baking in KhP is a very curtailed process, you shouldn't forget about it.

Added Saturday 12 Mar 2016 03:38 PM

Anchic, Anya, please give me links to the recipes by which you bake in HP. I'll go read it, maybe it will come to me in the process of comparing.

Added Saturday 12 Mar 2016 03:43 PM

I will support Lena - while Lyudmila's magazine (marina-aga) was available, I read a lot in it. And I also realized that sugar is not good for yeast.She highly recommended a dough mixing scheme that first mixes water, flour and yeast. It takes about 15-20 minutes of autolysis and only then salt, sugar and oil are added. And oil is the last thing.

Now I have a fresh loaf of bread, and when it ends, I'll try to make it technologically correct in HP.

[Natalia]

Natalia, I do not bake in HP. I knead the dough in it. And since the fall of last year, I rarely knead the dough in it - I bought a planetary mixer. I have in my notebook a recipe for Italian bread from Lyudmila's magazine. There you just need to knead flour, water and yeast (sourdough, if you bake it with it) and leave for 20 minutes. Then knead the dough "until the dough grasps into a ball" and only then add salt, pour in oil and complete the kneading. There is no sugar in this recipe. There is also a recipe "French bread by Raymond Calvel" from the same magazine, it may be on our forum, I don't know. The dough is put on sourdough, there is no sugar in it. The dough should be kneaded using a similar technology: knead flour with water and leave for 20 minutes. And only then add yeast and salt. There is no butter and sugar in this recipe. This bread is very tasty.

I remember about butter, why add it at the end - so that the flour protein swells well from water and gluten develops better. And the oil, as it were, envelops it and interferes with the penetration of water.

[The introduction of significant amounts of sugar dramatically reduces gas formation and even practically stops it (40-50% sugar).]

Flax, but for me, after I started activating the yeast with sugar according to the method of Natasha (Thalia), the bread began to turn out much better - both in taste and in texture.

Well, I don’t know .. Everyone has their own path, I guess. And I started eating homemade bread only when I reduced the amount of yeast to a gram per kilogram of flour. Maybe you changed something while doing this, maybe it coincided so .. But all more or less interested in bakery, friends who read a mountain of special literature in all languages, in response to this question of mine, unanimously repeated that it was better not to do this. By the way, the dough, obtained as a result of abundant feeding of yeast with sugar, has a simpler taste and structure than the dough, where the yeast was forced to eat sugars for a long time, obtained as a result of the action of flour enzymes. Perhaps, at the same time, fermentation goes to the alcohol side, I did not delve into it.

Lena, but highlight this in your posts in red. Not even blue, but red, in view of its importance.

Red is the color of moderators, it is forbidden for ordinary users, I guess. Yes, and I tell it as I see it myself, and not as the ultimate truth. There are people who are smarter and more experienced, so let them single out the axioms.

I would very much like Tanya-Admin to join the dialogue

Tanya-Admin has gone through all this and told others. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=72300.0

The amount of sugar and fat added to the dough also affects the amount of water that should be added when kneading the dough.
The more sugar and fat in the dough, the correspondingly less water is required.

Alcoholic fermentation and gas formation in the dough the addition of small amounts (up to 10% to the flour mass) of sugar has a positive effect.

The introduction of significant amounts of sugar dramatically reduces gas formation and even practically stops it (40-50% sugar).

This is due to the phenomenon of plasmolysis in yeast cells with an increase in concentration in the liquid phase. The swollen proteins of the gluten framework in the sugar dough have a dehydrating effect. As a result, the dough "liquefies" when sugar is added to it.

Added Saturday 12 March 2016 04:27 PM

For plain bread, there is very little sugar in the recipe. I have 400 grams of flour and 7 grams of pressed yeast, only 4 grams of sugar is only 1%.

Natasha, so all the fuss is not about the total sugar content. And about the fact that a recommendation has surfaced to add all this sugar to the yeast at once. And here we get a completely different proportionality, as you yourself understand. 4 grams of sugar for 7 grams of yeast. How much will it be if you count?)

Tanya-Admin long ago passed it all and told others

The introduction of significant amounts of sugar dramatically reduces gas formation and even practically stops it (40-50% sugar).

Lena, in the recipe that Natasha gave on the previous page, there is very little sugar - only 1.5 tsp. for 500 flour. And yeast - only 8 g live, and then I reduce this amount. Therefore, in relation to this particular recipe, there is no need to talk about the excessive content of sugar and yeast.

[Biryusa]

Biryusa, OlgaLena drew attention to the fact that sugar comes into contact with the yeast at once. And then a completely different proportion turns out.

[Anya]

Anya, there are recipes for Italian and French bread with sugar in the instructions for my HP, only they are obtained for an amateur. This means that in most recipes, sugar is added precisely for taste. Baking in KhP is very specific. Probably 2-3 hours of proofing is not enough to get an expressive taste. Therefore - sugar.

Well, I don’t know ..

Well, I don’t know .. Everyone has their own path, I guess. And I started eating homemade bread only when I reduced the amount of yeast to a gram per kilogram of flour. Maybe you changed something while doing this, maybe it coincided so .. But all more or less interested in bakery, friends who read a mountain of special literature in all languages, in response to this question of mine, unanimously repeated that it was better not to do this. By the way, the dough obtained as a result of abundant feeding of yeast with sugar has a simpler taste and structure than the dough, where the yeast was forced to eat sugar for a long time, obtained as a result of the action of flour enzymes. Perhaps, at the same time, fermentation goes to the alcohol side, I did not delve into it.
More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ic=4844.new;topicseen#new

Conversation of the deaf-dumb Lena, you probably don't even read the explanations of my actions at all.

Biryusa, OlgaLena drew attention to the fact that sugar comes into contact with the yeast at once. And then a completely different proportion turns out.

I understand that without sugar there should be less yeast, but less yeast - this should increase the proving time. Or is it wrong again?

Biryusa, OlgaLena drew attention to the fact that sugar is in contact with the yeast all at once. And then a completely different proportion turns out.

Lena bakes differently and all the explanations are somehow abstract. And the HP is a precise device that does not allow such liberties that Lena uses.
That's it, I won't explain anything else about my method. Useless.
AND I TAKE SUGAR WITHIN THE NORMAL, AND THE BALANCE IS OBSERVED ... I BAKE FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END IN THE BREAD, and not in the oven or slow cooker.

In my opinion, my method of baking bread in KhP corresponds to the recommendations of Tatiana - ROMA. If something is wrong, I hope she will correct it.

[IMHO.]

Lena drew attention to the fact that sugar is in contact with the yeast all at once.

I understood this. And I want to emphasize that when I began to grind the entire amount of sugar with the entire amount of yeast, the bread began to turn out much better and tastier. I don’t know that as a conservative this sugar can be preserved there in 5-10 minutes. and how to harm the yeast, but for me personally the result is important - the bread only benefits from this. IMHO.
I am not an expert - not a baker and never a chemist. I don’t want to argue with anyone.
I just wanted to hear why this method is bad, if it’s the opposite for me - everything turned out very, very well with bread.

Don't teach newbies bad things.

[Anchic]

Thank you Anchic... Confused when I wrote about the reverse order of bookmarking products. It turns out first water, then flour, and yeast either between or on top. Is it more logical between? And on top of salt, oil ... There is also an idea to throw in everything except salt and butter and put mines on the program. by 15. Then the main 4-hour with proofing. Put salt and oil somewhere in the middle. I try different things because my breads, though beautiful outwardly, taste little interesting. I can smell the thing in yeast But I realized my mistake, yeast should be put several times less. Natasha, I read about your bread on whey, it looks like this is about the taste I want, rubbery Crumb color d. b. not snow-white, but slightly creamy and does not crumble at all. If you replace the serum with water, nothing? Take her still nowhere.

[Susan]

Anya, there are recipes for Italian and French breads without sugar in the instructions for my HP

I have these recipes not for HP. These are recipes for sourdough bread (for the Italian version and with yeast, but the sponge way), it must be baked in the oven. Therefore, the taste of the bread is delicious, since the sourdough bread is generally very tasty.

Added Saturday 12 Mar 2016 05:16 PM

Susan, if you do a preliminary kneading of the dough without salt and oil, then it doesn't matter how you put everything in a bucket - the kneading starts immediately. Knead in the "Pelmeni" mode, add the remaining components and turn on the main program - the autolysis time will just pass. For "rubberiness" I advise you to pay attention to bread on ripe dough: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=69908.0 and https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=71685.0

But I want to say that in KhP the bread will still have a specific taste. That is why I do not bake in HP, but bake in the oven.

[I bake in a bread maker]

Natasha, I read about your whey bread, it looks like this is about the taste I am trying to achieve, rubbery Crumb color d. B. not snow-white, but slightly creamy and does not crumble at all. If you replace the serum with water, nothing? There is no place to take it anyway.

Answer

I have these recipes not for HP. These are recipes for sourdough bread (for the Italian version and with yeast, but the sponge way), it must be baked in the oven. Therefore, the taste of the bread is delicious, since the sourdough bread is generally very tasty.

Anya, if you bake it in a Russian oven, then the taste will generally be outrageous.

I bake in a bread maker from start to finish, it's not even an oven. The taste is certainly not so delicious, but it can be improved.

... Perhaps at the same time fermentation goes to the alcoholic side, ...

With normal kneading of yeast dough, during fermentation and rising, the process always goes with a light alcoholic aroma. And the amount of yeast (as the experts write) affects exclusively the speed of rise, that is, taking a certain amount of yeast recommended by the recipe - you can speed up the process by slightly increasing them and vice versa.

But I realized my mistake, yeast should be put several times less.

In a bread maker, this is fraught with a low rise of the roll. ((I now put 0.5 tablespoons of HP on a half a kilo with manual control, when baking in a bread maker on the "Main" - 1.5. ((

But people and leavened people manage to bake in bread makers, and there the food is very long. So, I think, with proper perseverance, you can get delicious bread in a bread machine too.

Posted Saturday 12 Mar 2016 5:53 PM

With normal kneading of yeast dough, during fermentation and rising, the process always goes with a light alcoholic aroma. And the amount of yeast (as the experts write) affects exclusively the speed of rise,

No, I'm just talking about something else. Yeast, which is lazy and cracks only the finished sucrose, gives a slightly different result than yeast, which eats hard-to-get food after the decomposition of starch by amylase.))

This is probably why my butter dough, which came up twice with practically no sugar and only then got a smoothie, is so much tastier. The percentage of sugar is not much different, but the structure and taste are different. Well, this is how bees make different honey if they are fed with sugar and nectar.
Pure water IMHO, I'm already afraid to insist on something.

But this is not the first time Inna has asked, and the first time I didn’t understand.
Where exactly to read ?? The Internet is now full of grief for masters like me, you can read a lot of garbage.

You can read it here: CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING" especially BAKERY TECHNOLOGY, where useful information worthy of attention is collected

[Bijou]

Bijou, of course, how many people, so many opinions. And it is very correct to put the dough without sugar and beat it several times, and add the rest of the ingredients when mixing. The dough really turns out better.

I tried a couple of recipes for sourdough bread in the HP oven according to the Raisin recipes. There, in order to fit the HP regimes, Zest suggested adding 1 g of instant yeast. Then it is quite possible to bake in automatic mode.

[Bijou]

Thanks to everyone who responded! Immediately I will make it clear, I will not bake bread in the oven, not mine, only cotton. Though never say never Therefore, I agree to a compromise. A couple of times I got something like * rubbery *. But from the recipe from the Panasonic book, one must move quite far. It turns out ordinary store bread, bespontovy as my son put it, it was not worth buying cotton for his sake. I bake only M-size and then at first I got huge loaves, delicious only on the first day. Now I will reduce the yeast and take note of some of your recommendations. We'll see...

Posted Saturday 12 Mar 2016 6:54 PM

Bijou, it turns out you put only 0.5 tsp on 500 g of flour. dry yeast? Well. And according to the instructions for the cotton, it was necessary to put 1.5 tsp. yeast for the same amount of flour. At first, I put it as written: for 400 g of flour - 1 tsp. dry yeast))

[Susan]

But from the recipe from the Panasonic book, one must move quite far.

Susan, and you move away from the Panasonic instructions, but not very far.
First, reduce the amount of yeast by 1/3.
Then mix all the ingredients except the butter on the "Pelmeni" mode - just to make a bun. Turn off the program "Pelmeni".
Add oil.
And immediately turn on "Basic". That's it, you don't need to do anything else.
See the difference in the flavor and texture of the bread. It will not crumble, and it will be tasty not only on the first day. That is, 3 extra minutes of your time will give you delicious bread. It turns out, a kind of spit method, but from all products.
This method is described in the recipes of many of our members of the forum (For example, Mistletoe and Sonadora).
And then you can experiment further, and, moreover, slightly increasing the time of your employment.

But from the recipe from the Panasonic book, one must move quite far. It turns out ordinary store bread, bespontovy as my son put it, it was not worth buying cotton for his sake.

Just about ... Mine were happy for exactly a week. And then they called him the same way and amicably transferred to the purchased factory bread. We have an old bakery, obviously with Soviet traditions, the bread is very pleasant. So my Panasik stood for 5 years unclaimed, only the dough on Pizza was kneading in it.

And then even suddenly kaaak took care ... I met on another forum with an inquisitive person, in whose dish each molecule should do what she was told and not step back from the team.)) I started with "unchanged", traditionally got nasty , began to hone different options with all sorts of doughs and without, refrigerator and heat, autolysis and brewing, kneading in HP and manually, settling and folding, trying to understand the logic of the test ... Many times the dogs said thank you, because there was no more consonant result ... Electricity bills skyrocketed ...

And it all came down to one single version of bread "for every day" in a multicooker, which we have been eating for years as the main bread. It is always the same and always delicious. Slightly rubbery, slightly creamy, finely porous with very thin, but not fragile walls. And I bake the rest of the species according to my mood and as an exclusive, to pamper my family. (the family, by the way, says "thank you" and reaches for the "usual" borscht)

So you will come to your own Bread someday. So that's it, with a capital letter. And I wish you every success on the way.

I met an inquisitive person on another forum, in whose dish each molecule should do what it was ordered to do and not step back from the team.))

Lena, where and with whom? We would also like to learn.

Added Saturday 12 March 2016 8:00 PM

Now I will reduce the yeast and take note of some of your recommendations. We'll see...

Please unsubscribe about the results. Very interesting!

[Zoya]

Thank you Zoya, I'm already doing something like this, only I increased the water, and on the contrary reduced the flour, though with prog. I haven't tried the dumplings yet. The gingerbread man turns out to be liquid, but the bread tastes better in the end. I will try your version MANDATORY. Don't you increase the water?
Bijou, so I got the reins under the mantle, I want a nature product! Slightly rubbery, slightly creamy, finely porous with very thin, but not fragile walls. I want this, I'm dying. I do not have a multicooker, so I will adapt it for x / n. PLEASE RECIPE AND TS U.

Added Saturday 12 Mar 2016 8:09 PM

Nataliya, I will definitely unsubscribe, but only on the trail. week. We still can't finish eating the old one, and I also baked a cake, I'm training for Easter.))

[Susan]

Don't you increase the water?

Susan, it all depends on the flour. Sometimes you need more water, sometimes you need less. I orient myself on the bun, as Tatiana's -Admin says.

true with prog. I haven't tried the dumplings yet.

Try, for example, this way this Mistletoe bread
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=398222.0
Or these Sonadors.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=238273.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=278587.0
It's not much more of our time, and the taste of the bread is wonderful. You will not regret.

[Susan]

Susan, I also like bread made from wetter dough when it is slightly watery.

[Zoya]

Zoya, oh, the last one shines at all!
But confusing ... ((I didn’t work out with doughs for every day, except that occasionally I start. Therefore, I make a safety one. But long.))
I found an old photo, but I can't understand it from the oven or from the multicooker. But it is signed that from the refrigerator and the batch was in the bread maker.)

Bijou, it looks very appetizing, and most importantly the crust is very thin. What is this recipe?

[Susan]

Susan, let's say - my own, tortured.)) Little yeast (raw from a gram to a pound), a lot of water, no sugar, a spoonful of vegetable oil and salt. Knead in HP or by hand, transfer to a container and stretch-throw in several approaches, not allowing to rise. Then overnight in the refrigerator, bake the next day.

You can not go to the refrigerator, then you still often stretch it out, not allowing it to rise. Bake after the dough is obviously ripe, bubbled and squeaks well. Very understandable, right? But this topic is not about bread.

And yes, a pretty photo, this is one of the very few for which I was "there" praised. I gave a link to a large image, but the moderator stung. )
What is hard on this forum is that you have to set the counting criterion yourself, and forum users are kind people, they always only praise. Even for not the most successful attempts. It is difficult to study when twos are not given and mistakes are almost never pointed out.

What is hard on this forum is that you have to set the counting criterion yourself, and forum users are kind people, they always only praise. Even for not the most successful attempts. It is difficult to study when twos are not given and mistakes are almost never pointed out.

Good bread will always be noticed and noted There is one criterion - high-quality bread in all respects And it is not difficult to study, it is enough to look back and see the recipes of our bakers, talk to them There are excellent bakers on the forum, whose baking is simply mesmerizing to watch, and you can learn from them
And what kind of theoretical base we have collected over several years, this still needs to be looked for in other forums CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"

LEARN!

Unfortunately, bread does not lend itself to everyone at once, it takes time and experience

We do not have a professional bread forum, where you need to strictly put marks in the magazine and in the diary

And it is desirable to encourage everyone, because people try very hard, it can be seen - but not everyone succeeds in baking This is not punishable - the main thing is that people bake their own bread at home With diligence and experience, over time, a good result will be obtained - as an example, there are enough of such on the forum

[Admin]

AdminI didn't say that such support is bad. I said it was hard for me. Because there are not enough criteria. Now I look at the pictures of my first loaves and see how they are ... imperfect, if not terrible. I remember that I was even slightly offended that they didn’t praise me, because what a wonderful person I am and how cool I can now! Perhaps, if I hadn't poked my nose into mistakes then, I would have stayed at that level. But I was hooked that it turns out that nothing really works out for me, no matter what I thought to myself ... And instead of arguing, I took myself by the scruff and stupidly continued to translate products dozens of times ... Until we got at least something remotely similar to bread.)

And the users here are masterpieces, that's right! Look - do not reconsider their skills and talents! I do not even presume to repeat - there is a lack of talent and diligence.

Perhaps, if I hadn't poked my nose into mistakes then, I would have stayed at that level. And instead of arguing, she took herself by the scruff of the neck and stupidly continued to translate the products dozens of times ... Until it began to turn out at least something remotely similar to bread.)

I don't see any breads in your profile (except one in the multicooker)

I usually work with people, when they come with their problems to me in the subject and with a photo - there we will talk
And there are times when I send to study with our bakers, and it happens.

Do you think those who have gorgeous bread on the forum do not feed the birds with bread? How they feed! And they often feed - for various reasons, and mistakes, and when a new recipe is worked out, and so on ... And I feed and feed - it happens
The forum contains recipes that have already been worked out, which you can show and give recommendations on them! That is why we are delighted with their breads, that they worked out their recipes "to delight"

And to put grades - so, from the forum people will run in a stream, they do not come here for grades

And what kind of theoretical base we have collected over several years, this still needs to be looked for in other forums

That's for sure! And there is a lot of practice in recipes! And you can always discuss the subtleties with the authors, always get support and a magic pendal

Please help with advice. I want to bake a cake, but there is a question with yeast. Recommended saf instant in a gold pack (500 grams). I bought them, but there is absolutely no way to use them on the pack. It is written on the sites everywhere that this yeast should NOT come into contact with water. But how to cook a dough ?! How and with what to mix this yeast? And should all the yeast be added to the brew at once? I got completely confused. And how much of this yeast to take if you need 200 g of ordinary pressed yeast? Please help who uses this yeast in the cake dough.

If the recipe indicates 7 grams of dry, then how much pressed is needed?

Conversion of dry yeast into wet, pressed (and vice versa)

If the recipe indicates 7 grams of dry, then how much pressed is needed?

×3

So where is the correct answer, Pavlovich writes that you need to multiply by 3 means 21 gr. Here in the instructions for dry yeast Saf the moment it is written the following - the weight is 11 grams, which replaces 21 or 25 grams. pressed, and according to the formula uv. ROMA per 100 g flour 2 g pressed

[nik784]

nik784, you can't trust anyone now, you can trust me. ©

And I also want to ask whether whole grain flour is considered as heavy as rye or not. Thank you

[Nik]

Nik, I usually replace 1g dry for 2g pressed. But if in doubt, I can slightly increase the odds. But usually no more than 3.

and according to the formula uv. ROMA per 100 g flour 2 g pressed

This matches the table The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes , which is taken from the instructions for the Hitachi cotton made in Japan.
Neither cotton Hitachi, nor the instructions for it, written by the Japanese, have never let me down, and all the master classes on bread since 2007 on the forum have been written by me on the basis of baking bread on cotton Hitachi.

And who to believe? Only those who are good, a lot, correctly, efficiently engaged in baking bread, and not verbiage Look at the bread recipes on the forum, there is someone to learn from
And only experience, the son of difficult mistakes ... believe only his own experience, he will always direct to the truth, especially when it comes to his own taste