Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki, Sveta,

Yeah, start it up, and then: buy milk and pour it on time, share it when you grew up, etc. No, I don't want to.

Well, firstly, the GOST collections are not supposed to be simply dissolved at all, but also filtered.

It's the same with sugar. And in the confectionery they definitely mention that sugar needs refined refined sugar))) It's so fat for baking.
Because for the sake of economy, they took coarse-crystalline salt and sugar, which dissolve for a long time, they can tear the gluten with impurities and sharp granules. That was earlier.
And if we take fine salt and fine pure sugar, instant and pure, then we don't have to steam. Especially if there are few of them, strictly according to the norm.
Then, depending on where you want to push the salt, or rather for what purpose. Salt strengthens gluten, but at the same time prevents the development of lactic acid fermentation. When they want to slow it down, they add salt. Salt is not added to the dough so as not to interfere with souring-fermentation. And if you add salt to the dough, it will stand motionless for so long.
Therefore, if you want to keep the lobe warm for a long time and slow down the processes in it, add salt. There is no purpose in the lobe to strengthen-develop gluten. There is swelling, that is, just cooling, in theory, behind the eyes.
As I understand it, salt must be poured into the dough before kneading for weak flour and any rye. Rye flour is also very fond of salt to strengthen the structure in terms of kneading.

[fffuntic]

It's the same with sugar

I switched from sugar to golden syrup. It ended - I returned to sugar (granulated) - I didn't like it. Bought gold syrup again

fffuntic, Lena, Thank you

I agree with Lena's opinion. When I bake with the addition of kombucha infusion 150 ml plus 150.0 flour, I leave this mixture overnight, then I have to add an extra 50 g of flour when kneading

well syrup is a different texture. Like molasses, invert syrups and so on. There are other sugars, microbes in the dough eat them in different ways. Each syrup is chemically introduced into the dough in a special way, and different effects are obtained. Crumbling, staleness, fermentation rate.
Any syrup is not equal to sugar. And different syrups / molasses are not equal to each other.

Therefore, if you want to keep the lobe warm for a long time and slow down the processes in it, add salt. There is no purpose in the lobe to strengthen-develop gluten. There is swelling, that is, just cooling, in theory, behind the eyes.

I want to mention that Reinhart insists on adding salt to the lobe, arguing that salt keeps fermentation in check (the activity of enzymes and enzymes). But he also makes a lobe for 12-24 hours ... Probably, the greatest disclosure of the taste of ZZ flour is taking place ...

well, he knows better.

Look. Any enzymes also mean protease, that is, the destruction of the structure in the snot. Protease is only blocked by cold. But the cold also blocks lactic acid fermentation, which is useful in our case. That is, it turns out that you need to stay warm for a long time, but without destruction. Salt can fulfill this role. And only salt. Even vinegar will be weaker in this regard.
Salt will slow down all processes. But this is the lesser evil compared to protease.

I understand that for just swelling, the time could be reduced. But there is also the notorious phytic acid and all the bitterness in the bran, and these seem to ripen for a very long time. In short, I think Reichard is right, the longer, the tastier and healthier. It probably also depends on the specific flour. The coarser the grind, the longer.
So, salt is needed))).

protease destroys dough of normal consistency in heat completely into snot in literary sources in about 20 hours.Well, in a liquid state in warmth, with active living flour, probably the sooner, the larger the flour is ground, but obviously not in 2 hours.That is, if you keep the lobe for two hours not in the heat, then it will withstand without salt. And I think so, with a short soak, no need to put salt, so as not to slow down the already short process. With a short soak, it is just necessary to accelerate the activity of other enzymes. Back again to the serum
Think how long it takes for the grain to stink and rot in your kitchen. This is the limit of soaking without the safety salt.

probably, starting from 6 hours of soaking, it is already necessary to protect yourself with salt. And do not overestimate the temperature of soaking. As the temperature rises, the protease increases.
But for complete fermentation, and not just swelling, the CZ fig knows how long it takes. Maybe not less than 12 hours, like they write about phytin garbage. That is, to be useful, the central locking system must be soaked for a long time and in accordance with all Reinhart's rules.

Girls, baking guru, I ask for advice again, I refused the new model of the bread maker, it is very beautiful, but apparently there are a lot of problems with it, it will not work for lazy beginners. Now I choose from 2510 and 2511, we also have 2502 here.

Our preferences in bread: everyone eats white, children like it with additives such as cheese and sausage, we buy black like Borodinsky once a year, my husband and I love a gray half-grain with all sorts of seeds, I don't intend to bake sweet rolls, I do everything sweet in the oven, we love baguettes , but then I realized that this would not work, and we love bread not dry, but so slightly moist and elastic.

Do I understand correctly that 2510 is enough for me? I need to fall asleep and take out bread, because I don’t want to bother with bread, I like to cook, there are soups, dishes from different national cuisines, and bread for me is just bread. I will try the maximum from flour such as corn and buckwheat, with bran I want well and with additives.

I looked at the differences between the bread makers, maybe there are more nuances between them, besides the absence of a rye regime?

And dispensers, I saw different opinions. but if you mainly put it at night, since in the evening the bread is finished and bread is needed by 14 o'clock, when the children return from school, I saw that hot bread cannot be eaten and it still needs time to cool and ripen, whether or not a dispenser is needed for the night baking exactly?

Thank you all in advance for your help.

[Sabrina]

Sabrina, You have already figured it out perfectly yourself and just want to confirm your choice. I confirm your choice. I have been baking bread for the seventh year at night. You do not need a dispenser for this. If you want with additives, then the 2510 has a function like this. But the injection must be done manually. The bread maker itself will give you a signal by squeaking and flashing of the display that it is time to add the additives you have chosen. By the way, I also baked rye in my own, without a dispenser. It's just that we are not lovers of rye, but we also love white. However, 50 gr. add rye flour to a 400 gram loaf.
Do not consider 2502 at all. The inflated cost for a useless yeast dispenser and the same plastic case wrapped in stainless steel. Compare the cost with 2510 and spend the difference in money on yourself or a tasty treat for children. Good luck to you!

[Redhead]

Well, they woke up Redhead , and he, as befits cats, gets used to his beloved sofa , only to his Panasik, and the main one is against Panasik's progress
Sabrina, the best choice is 2511, because

there is a dispenser that will allow you to automatically add seeds to the stove without your participation. And there is a rye mode, which at times, when you have no time, will give you the opportunity to make some recipes on the machine. Not all, but again, additional convenience.
Whenever possible, always choose more convenience.
In the 2510 you will have to use pens to simulate what is already built into the 2511 on the machine. You can do it, but it's uncomfortable.

2502 - has an additional noisy yeast dispenser that opens with a bang on all programs. If the stove is in a zone of increased audibility, then at night you will experience discomfort, and in case of a hypothetical malfunction of the dispenser, an extra hole in the lid that will need to be closed.Therefore, the yeast dispenser is a controversial convenience. I think you are unlikely to feel the need for it.
2512 - has only a sub-noise dispenser, and 2502 is generally a previous version without a low-yeast mode, which many people liked. 2502 in my eyes is not even worth considering. In Panasika, low-yeast is an excellent program, but it appeared only from the series 251*

2511 - a machine for all tastes, the additive dispenser, which only opens on certain programs, allows you to put additives on the machine + rye mode. I highly recommend this version to you.
But in general, as you know, I am a bastard from burzhuikas. The potbelly stove of this version is generally something with something. Dream.
Potbelly stoves even of the previous version 2501 are also a dream. A potbelly stove, even an old one, is cooler than any of our domestic versions.

[Sabrina]

Sabrina, and I am for 2510 with two hands, because the happy owner of it has been for more than three years, she will sing whatever you want, and rye too, no extraneous sounds from dispensers, / they also break /, and the little white one will easily fit into the interior, and it would be time and desire to improve in baking various breads and muffins! and if you read a bread maker, then powerful support, help and interest, / in this temka so sure / are provided!
happy minutes with your assistant! if you have any questions, ask
and I never tire of thanking all members of the forum on the advice of which we have this Sonechka! THANK YOU all very much !!!

I have 2511, I'm happy with it, I use all the programs with different intensities except for jams and preserves. I take out the supplement dispenser and it lives next to me on the table. I put it only on the programs with additives, and after the trigger I take it out, so he is still alive. According to reviews, this is the most breaking part, or rather the plastic "latch" breaks there, it is assumed that the plastic does not withstand the baking temperature.

[Sabrina]

Sabrina, read your post in the next topic. Everything that you described is in 2511. I don’t want to put pressure on, the choice, of course, is yours. I express only my opinion

I chose 2511 for the rye regime. If you need wheat bread, a cheaper model will do. Good luck.

Well, they woke up Red

Funtik, I have something to say and answer to you, but I don't want to aggravate it. You would at least read not diagonally what the new girl writes.

Our preferences in bread: everyone eats white, children like it with additives such as cheese and sausage, we buy black like Borodinsky once a year, my husband and I love a gray half-grain with all sorts of seeds, I am not going to bake sweet rolls,

She doesn't need your whole. zer., sourdough ciabats and diluted with vinegar as a dough. A person just needs everyday white bread! Continue to indulge in the bourgeoisie. Nobody minds.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Svetlenki, Lenochka, Svetik, I don’t know if a lobe from cz could affect the taste of rye, but the homemade ones appreciated it. It took only four years to like my rye (by leaps and bounds)

lobe from tsz influence
And in Russian?

[Wit]

She doesn't need your whole. zer., sourdough ciabats and diluted with vinegar as a dough. A person just needs everyday white bread! Continue to indulge in the bourgeoisie. Nobody minds.

Wit, Vitaly, with all due respect, when I started, I also needed only white bread. But when you get a taste, appetites grow.

and how to dilute the dough with vinegar

That is, it is normal for you to look at the cuts of breads with vinegar in this topic, but to read the theory that the use of vinegar is a controversial issue, no way, right? Better not to escalate, that's for sure

lobe from tsz influence
And in Russian?

I have 50 g of rye and 50 g of wheat. I poured these 100 g with water (but better, as the girls wrote, with whey, yogurt), and we got a lobe.

About the choice of the stove. Any with a low-yeast mode.

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki, this is how I answered a pound for a cat with a sofa. This is irony and nothing more.

[$ vetLana]

$ vetLana,
Thank you

[Wit]

Wit, VitalyAnd I already rushed to the embrasure with Khrudyu. Oh, this is "impersonal" communication. Sometimes I don't finish intonation.

I have 50 g of rye and 50 g of wheat.I poured these 100 g with water (but better, as the girls wrote, with whey, yogurt), and we got a lobe.

$ vetLana, Svetik, brag about it in more detail! You did it on Russian flour, it will be useful for the bread-makers to know about the holding time, what temperature they poured with liquid ...

[Sveta]

Sveta, while it's early, you need to bake a couple more times.

Girls, and boys too, read all the opinions, thank you, chose 2510 all the same, Vitaly is right, I’m unlikely to invent something, well, bread for me is just bread, I’d find a few recipes and enough, I’m for baking I'm calm in the oven, I bake, because there are three men in the house, but I bake according to recipes without inventing anything, my passion is cooking food, soups, salads and so on, here I like to cook and invent, I don't even have a multicooker, I need I must control everything myself, interfere, add something unexpectedly not according to the recipe, I don't need any automation here.

Ciabattu found an oven recipe here, I'll try for the sake of interest, in principle I won't refuse to make whole grain in HP, like in 2510 it is possible to make it, but rye, hardly, if rye is Borodino, then we don't eat it, I have heartburn from it, the rest do not like it for the sour taste.

I'm more worried that we might not like the taste of HP bread at all, but I decided to buy it already, otherwise for 10 years I periodically think whether I need it or not, I decided to try it.

[Sabrina]

Ciabatta found an oven recipe here, I'll try for the sake of interest, in principle I won't refuse to make whole grain in HP, like in 2510 it is possible to make it, but rye, hardly, if rye is Borodino, then we don't eat it, I have heartburn from it, the rest do not like it for the sour taste.

I’m unlikely to invent something

"Appetite comes with eating.." Sabrina, do not promise, you may get a taste and start experimenting. And 2510 or 2511, not a big difference, so in the 10th model you can fantasize the same

"Appetite comes with eating.."

Perhaps, of course, but I am more of a cook than a cook, I don’t bake cakes, the pinnacle of creativity in cakes is to bake cakes, pour sour cream and rub the chocolate on top, everything that’s harder for me is banal too lazy to do, I’m a calf and I have to push myself and my natural laziness, in cooking it still turns out, but in all other respects it is not very good.

the pinnacle of creativity in cakes is to bake cakes, pour sour cream and rub chocolate on top, everything that is more difficult for me is corny too lazy to do, I am a calf

How familiar to me

"Appetite comes with eating.."

That's for sure!
I started it myself ...

And I chose 2511 on the advice of Lenochka, a pound, and I have no regrets. I don't use a dispenser, but suddenly, when I move to the dacha, I'll take it with me. I play with Hamelman's recipes, but in the oven. I switched to 1st grade Shugurovskaya flour and whole grain

[Sabrina]

Sabrina, so you want to make bread for the night on a delayed start with seedsand in 2510 it is impossible. The seeds must be manually reported during kneading. Wake up - get up - and put down on a signal. Because there is no additive dispenser in which you can add seeds in advance.
And I still would not refuse the rye regime. After all, you did not have a stove, you do not imagine your really specific needs with Panasonic.
If the savings for 2510 are really high - I am silent. But if the difference is small, take a more multifunctional one.

Vital, we have very few persistent ones who, after buying a stove, will withstand the rye-wheat Passions and Westphalian and other delights,



As for the lobe. I haven't tried a lobe. But I diluted KMKZ for rye composition and even wheat-rye. For me, there is a strong difference when sourdough is added to the rye composition. For me, even the effect of serum is much weaker. Only with the sourdough does such a rye aftertaste appear, richer than usual, which cannot be obtained otherwise.
I'm not doing everything yet, but I will never give up the sourdough for rye bread for anything.

[Lena]

Our dear smart girl Lena, fffuntic... Less than a year later, on your recommendation, I decided to add ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to flour in order to get a beautiful roof.



Guys!!! This is a delight! Below, under the spoiler, I will show a photo of my standard bread (I already laid it out before, it's just for comparison) Ingriki are all the same - cottage cheese, old dough.

Lenaaaaa All your squeezes - in the frame and on the wall!

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,
Her monograph will be enough for the whole apartment ... to paste over!
Our clever and clever girl!
I keep all her work in the cloud, if anything with a computer will remain well-read by back-breaking work ...

Hosanna to her!

Hosanna to her!

Yeah, so I still managed to remember her reasoning about how to cool the bread maker. I came to my senses late. The scoreboard shows me 46 minutes today - baking has begun. I open the lid and see - undersized. And my finger in front of my head (in the sense of understanding that it is not necessary to do this) presses STOP I stand with an open lid, a hot bucket, naturally, a hot stove and think what I have done ... cold water a towel and let the stove cool. In a couple of minutes I managed to do it.

And yesterday I saw flour unfamiliar to me and at a reasonable price it seems 49 rubles. for 2 kg. Essesno bought!
Tomorrow I will try it on the tooth. Here it is (Lipetsk again).
🔗
🔗



I probably missed the lesson (I always read everything that Funtik writes. Although I don't understand everything. From bakery education, only elementary school), ascorbic acid for what? Just for a beautiful roof? Poke where to look.

[Wit]

From bakery education, only primary school), ascorbic acid for what? Just for a beautiful roof? Poke where to look.

WitWell, the last time Lena wrote about this was in a parallel topic

Bomann 594 bread maker does not crush dough # 4

1b. or reinforcing flour with ground semolina, or dry gluten / panifirin, or egg white, ascorbic acid on the tip of a knife - the last weakest reinforcement.

Lena talks about this regularly. I finally got it drilled

Cool down - I'll see the crumb, how are things

Vit, ordinary flour, nothing special. I don't use it for bread. In Magnet, there is Krupnov with 12% protein, but not a color package, but a solid one. Apparently in different cities it is packed, or even made.

[Marina]

Krupnov happens to Magnet

Marina, I've never seen one like this in our magnet, but we go to Magnet once a week. Apparently this is such a flour in your region, they still do not have completely centralized supplies, but there are regional ones, and we do not seem to have such

Well, when they sing praises to me, it's nice of course. Everyone is pleased if they love him, and when you are a girl, it is a thousand times more pleasant.
But not my merit. I'm not a practitioner. I borrow from textbooks and from favorite bloggers. In theory I pick up, but in time it is not always even possible to apply.
Therefore, I just save you time so that you do not dig yourself. Since I want to spend time instead of watching my favorite TV series, then at least with increased benefit. Not one to come in handy.

Well, you were praising the Peasant from Ryazanochka, so I was not too lazy, I ran around all the magnets, but wait ... of course. They didn't bring it to us. Apparently, each region has its own supplies. But I found an excuse from 11 squirrels - that was joy. I love the extension.

Lena, and I bought Uvelka, so it was very dry, I was not comme il faut. Maybe the party is like that, God wears it. I just fell in love with the whole-ground Ryazanochka for its nutty flavor, but bought it the other day, and not the same one in color and consistency. How rough. Here are the disgusting mom-dads ..

Yes, I, too, once bought a spelled lozenge. Oh, how nutty she was. I even made sauce on it. I was delighted. And she is, an infection, expensive. But I still bought it, but that's just a completely wrong calico. It’s just like a completely different flour.
And I promoted her in front of everyone, and now I think people will fork out for nasty things and will remember me with a kind word.
Why quality walks so badly - we can only guess.
But the extension of the highest grade did not disappoint at all, but I don't even know what to say with the extension of the central loop.I did not find anything special in the taste, there was no nutty taste, but mine turned out to be harmful. loves to spoil my bread, if without dancing with a tambourine. It may be useful, but I was tired of the central locking system with its tricks. To buy a tasty one is a problem, and the rest is somehow not impressive.

I just fell in love with Ryazan for the nutty taste

I took it !!! M-dya ... Thought I had forgotten what a "nutty" taste it was. I haven't tried nuts for a long time. I bought a gram of nuts - I don’t forget! They didn’t interfere, so nutty taste, parasites. And so, nothing turned out to be bread, although not nutty.

Vit, take flour from the bag and try it. She has a sweet nutty flavor

I also almost always take Ryazanochka whole-grain flour, but, alas, there is no nutty taste either raw or in bread, but the bread with it is very tasty.

[ladnomarina]

ladnomarina, I again did "Italian", but not on the dietary one, but on the French mode, in French it turned out better, although the roof was completely flat, but I could pour more liquid at night. There are no photos, I baked for a visit, that's why I put at night, and in the morning without cutting, in a bag and taken away. Everyone liked the taste very much and was, despite the flat roof, soft and fluffy

I take Ryazanochka whole grain flour, but, alas, no

it is whole ground

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, here's the main thing - delicious.
At first I complained - oh, I missed it, it just cracked. And now I don’t look at all this, the taste, I like it, is wonderful.
Again Ritulin set to bake

I did it again

Lud, I didn't bake Italian, I can't judge. Maybe I'll still try to adapt to the whole grain regime. The other day, mostly Darnitsky with a flat roof and half-baked came out. To throw away. And today, on fruit yeast, I baked wheat according to Angela's recipe




Today size M is fried. onions and a clove of garlic. Of 400.0 flour, 50.0 is wholemeal. Tasty. Mainly with additives



And this one is on fruit yeast from the table. a spoonful of applesauce

[Marina]

I will still try to adapt to the whole grain regime.

Marina, this is a dietary one, apparently, it has a very short last distance. Therefore, it is necessary to take out the scapula after the penultimate kneading, this is approximately 2 hours before the end of the program and, accordingly, 1 hour (I remember 55 minutes) before baking.

Yes, Lyudochek, dietary. I'll try to take out the scapula

[Marina]

Marina, yes, I took whole-grain, and whole-grain, different for 10 years of baking bread, Ryazanochka only began to be sold with us for half a year, I don't feel any nutty taste, probably something is wrong with the sense of smell
I want to thank the girls for bringing my attention to the Diet Regimen. Previously, I was not impressed by it, but now I tried to bake on it, if I use a lot of whole grain (100–150g) and rye (150g) flour. On the main program, the bread was interrupted, holes formed on the roof and the roof was not round, but on this program everything is fine, the roof is convex, not deflated! This is important for me because I always put bread on the timer at night. Thank you very much!