Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

[Wit]

Wit, dry are instant (SAF-moment), add them to flour, and there is, for example, SAF-levure, baking dry active, pour them into the liquid. In the instructions on the sachets it is written how and where to pour. If you pour it into a liquid, then the temperature of the liquid should be at least 20 grams, in my experience. Then they, already at the equalization of temperatures, begin to slowly revive and work.



And also exactly such porosity may not work, after all, psyllium - baking powder improver, and gives some rubberiness to the bread But the aroma and taste will be the same

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, and a simple baking powder can be poured from a bag?

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[Wit]

Wit, try it, just not the whole bag, but with 0.5 tsp. that would not oppress the yeast, figs knows how it will affect the yeast, as a rule, these leavening agents are alkaline, and the yeast loves an acidic environment. Here Lena would explain better. After all, in the recipe for Icelandic bread, soda is present, though there is no ordinary yeast .. Oh, Vataliy, I don't go into such a jungle ... It's easier for me, psyllium has spilled and everything is checked, no mines You need to pour psyllium too

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Luda, my bread didn't rise. Didn't look in time. There was not enough proofing time for rye. I also have untested flour.
Died, poor thing, not knowing adulthood
I'll wait for your proven recipe.

[$ vetLana]

$ vetLana, sorry. When I do it on the standard rye mode, now I dissolve the yeast in warm whey, they start to work during the temperature equalization and still watch the rise, if not enough, I add the service mode, so I don't draw up the recipe, everything is under control turns out. Or you can put "rye dough" on the program and check the volume on a signal, if not enough, add the service mode and then bake. You can certainly increase the yeast, but I don't want to

[Psyllium is NOT a baking powder !!!]

after all psyllium is a baking powder

Psyllium is NOT a baking powder !!! , but rather an IMPROVER / STRENGTH AMPLIFIER. Psyllium forms a gel that can replace / reinforce gluten, that is, it enhances the retention of gases formed from yeast fermentation, or gases from reaction with soda.
Buttercup, do not mislead people. It's like calling a kneading knead
Baking powder / soda and psyllium are NOT equal and are NOT replaceable.

Baking powder / soda in yeast dough acts as a gluten softener.

It is important to name it IMMEDIATELY correctly, because the name takes root and reflects the action of the product. And since psyllium is a new product, there is not much experience and knowledge about which, you need to be especially careful about the definitions, so as not to put into use the wrong name... so that initially everyone gets used to the correct one and then does not break their brains, knocking out mistakes from there.

still psyllium - baking powder , and gives some rubberiness to the bread

And so: baking powder gives the dough porosity, not rubberiness.

[Natasha]

Natasha, I do not argue, it was just written somewhere that psyllium acts as a baking powder. I also add it to cottage cheese casseroles, completely without flour, instead of soda. Psyllium imparts both porosity and rubberiness. It is used completely without flour, after all, as a baking powder, you can of course call it something else, but I don't have enough imagination

tormented me all ...

The principle of loosening, that is, the pore-formation of "soda" and psyllium is different, "soda" emits carbon dioxide and it forms "pores-bubbles", psyllium is a fiber that swells from water and gives volume to the "product".We will not call psyllium a baking powder, but in the net it is called exactly that, I have nothing to do with it, honestly, honestly I'm afraid mistakes cannot be avoided



Oh, what else I found on our forum Cooking With Psyllium (Breakthrough Diet Baking) # 28

[Buttercup]

where it was written that psyllium acts as a baking powder.

Here, somewhere. Is there a guarantee that they were not mistaken there? Logically, they were mistaken there or, just like us, could not find the correct definition.
Buttercup, I also cannot find the correct word, but a substance that forms mucus does not form gas, but retains gas, or vapors, or expanding oxygen ...

Oh, what else I found on our forum

If the baking is yeast, add psyllium to the liquid (1-2 tablespoons per liter of liquid) along with the yeast and let stand for 10 minutes. When the mixture becomes jelly, add the rest of the ingredients. When using psilium, we reduce the consumption of flour by 10-30%.
If baking with a baking powder, then
psilium mix with flour, (1 tsp for 3 dl flour).

Well, what we see here: psyllium does not replace baking powder (yeast / baking powder), but is added as a substitute for part of the flour.

[Natasha]

Natasha, I brought this to understand the proportions. And on the subject of soda and psyllium together. And in general, you never know who wants to study. I do not insist on the name baking powder, I already wrote about it, but what else to call the substance that increases the volume and porosity, I don’t know. I’ll just write - psyllium.

[Buttercup]

I'll just write - psyllium

Probably better this way.
Buttercup, I just do not want us to learn wrong. Until we find the correct definition, let's just write - psyllium.

Well, for consensus!

What is the consensus Confused everything

[enhancer]

Psyllium is dumb enhancer- thickener, that is, mucus that swells becomes a very viscous medium that retains all types of gases and moisture in the bread. Psyllium is not a source of gas, so it cannot be called a baking powder, but nevertheless it promotes loosening, stands assistant to any baking powder.
And besides, it swells, storing moisture, that is promotes high juiciness of bread.
That is, it is everywhere an assistant - an improver, which contributes to everything good.

That is, if you use the healing properties of psyllium, then you should replace some of the gluten or wheat flour with them.
If you only use the enhancement of juiciness, then you can simply add.
In rye bread, it acts as an alternative to the addition of whole gluten, fulfills its functions in rye bread.
At first, it swells like a very strong jelly, in which loosening gas from the yeast and part of the moisture are stuck. And when the bread is ready, this jelly gently thickens, giving juiciness and strength to the bread.
And if it's physically straight .. gelling agent thickener, from a series of gums. Those work well, almost the same.

Natasha, perhaps, does not know: this is a toast from the film Peculiarities of the National Hunt. Natasha, remove it later

Here in the city I've seen enough of almost all the "features" on TV, though I don't even look at politics anymore and I don’t watch it. You can remove unnecessary and our reflections so that people would not get confused, there is our redhead. And Lena, came and wrote everything correctly, her post and leave.

And further..
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=470527.0

If the baking is yeast, add psilium to the liquid (1-2 tablespoons per liter of liquid) along with the yeast and let stand for 10 minutes. When the mixture becomes jelly, add the rest of the ingredients. When using psilium, we reduce the consumption of flour by 10-30%.
If baking with a baking powder, then
psilium mix with flour, (1 tsp for 3 dl flour).

well, shamanism, girls and boys.
Well, imagine that you simply added viscous starch to bread, which will swell into a dense jelly, then solidify into an even denser, but still gel-like delicate structure.
Why does he dehydrate there)))? What he took on himself, he kept in bread.There should just be enough water for him and for everything else))))
Why add it to the liquid on purpose, soak it with yeast - well, these are completely unnecessary gestures))), this is to complicate your life, probably)))
A common additive. You can put it in and, as always, together with flour, it will swell by itself, the yeast, as it works, will accumulate gases in the resulting jelly. Just make sure that the bun is not too dry the first time.
Put yeast or soda as always. Psyllium traps their gases, and does not eat them)))

A regular additive and treat it like a regular dry additive. Just save a little extra water for her and a mustache.

Psyllium is not a source of gas, therefore it cannot be called a baking powder, but nevertheless it promotes loosening, acts as an assistant to any baking powder.

Gluten also helps / promotes loosening / gas retention / pore formation. But gluten is somehow not attributed to baking powder. That's probably the same psyllium.

Tasha may not know: this is a toast from the film Peculiarities of the National Hunt.

I know the film, I saw it. But somehow I don't want to review and memorize toasts from it, I did not take the film Words of Luda for me as confirmation of mutual consent.

[plump]

Gluten is just a resilient rubbery structure that can trap gas, and that gas keeps it from shrinking. But when ready, the gluten becomes very strong - a skeleton for bread. Therefore, they only talk about its formative function.
It does not contribute to loosening, it is necessary to loosen and stretch it itself, otherwise the cake will be. It does not loosen, but tightens the structure in its raw state.

And psyllium, if you imagine that there is no gas at all in the dough, turns into plump gentle water gel, softening the texture of the bread. He even "kind of lubricates" this dense gluten, if any, acts as a chubby lubricant. That is, in the complete absence of gas, psyllium will soften the structure, make it softer. Acts as a spacer that prevents gluten or rye dough swamps from thickening. Then after baking, psyllium will also thicken, but still more tender than gluten. It stores, like an airbag))), more moisture.
Therefore, psyllium itself is gentle and non-rubbery, and even can hold gas, increasing its volume and strength as a structure softener.

It promotes loosening from all sides. It is too delicate to be recognized as very important after solidification, although it is also present. But it is precisely the softening and assistance in loosening that he has the coolest.

You know, the gums are already hardening in strength closer to gluten. They are already being spoken of as formative. They are also more elastic, they, like gluten, must be loosened themselves.

[Natasha]

I took Lyuda's words as confirmation of mutual consent

I understood everything correctly Natasha, I just expressed the idea like in a movie, so everyone is right!

In fact, if straightforwardly meticulously, then everything has its own names, reflecting the exact function and properties.
Psyllium is a clear thickener. All.
Not gluten, not baking powder. It's not salt, it's not protein ... it's something starchy. That is, chemically, it is a very special element.

The function is to thicken, forming an aqueous gel.
Further, only the strength of the thickening and the strength of the residual gel remains in comparison with other thickeners.

Gluten is protein, baking powder is salt, a mixture of salts. So if quite strictly .. then "contributes" is already an artistic digression.

[Svetochka]

I baked pure rye yesterday, Svetochka, he didn’t come up very well with me. But the bread turned out to be soft and tasty. I have an idea that it is necessary to bake it for 300g of flour, then it rises more easily, it's just easier for it to lift and hold its mass. Yesterday, in addition to the standard rye dough program, it was still in the service mode for about an hour and still the holes are not the same


Sveta, and how soft did you do it?

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Luda, they correctly say: "Everything is cognized in comparison"
It turns out that mine is not as bad as I thought yesterday. Handsome, one might say



Soft inside (for pure rye, I think it's normal). Yesterday the crust was very hard. Today, after lying in the bag, the crust is soft.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, it turned out very well, maybe you were waiting for the result as with wheat, but there are no miracles. Larger holes can be achieved by increasing the amount of liquid and reducing the amount of flour, at the moment, the best option is 300 ml of liquid + 1-1.5 hours. l. psyllium for 300 g of flour, the bread will turn out to be small, but the most perforated and, accordingly, soft.

[Luda]

Luda, well, you imagine it as a swamp so viscous, viscous, in which gas from yeast stupidly gets stuck. Some part breaks through and leaves, and some part gets stuck. In baking, the swamp is compacted and the trapped gas loosens the dough.
From this moral: there will be little yeast, little rise.
a lot of yeast - the same can be a small volume, because all the gas just like a ball will break through the thick of the dough and fly away. The yeast pressure should not be very strong.
That is, you need to find a consensus with yeast. Straight tunic to tunic. Moreover, the thicker the swamp, the more gas it will hold. That is, technically, it is better not to pour over rye water.

Now let's look at the swamp in terms of its weight. The larger its volume, the more difficult it is to obtain a uniform gas distribution over time. The gas rushes upwards and there it accumulates more at the top than at the bottom, but in terms of retention, just as the gas reaches the top, more will remain.
That is, a large volume and weight contributes to uneven loosening.

The most important thing is the viscosity of the bog, the larger it is, the denser, the longer and more difficult it will be for the gas to make its way up. More of it will get stuck.
That is, for volume, you need to look more towards increasing density and increasing the amount of yeast.
Perhaps it makes sense to put more psyllium - it will increase the viscosity, but gently, and a little more yeast, or raise the fermentation temperature, in general, give more gas, but not too much.

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Luda, correct me if I'm wrong: small loaves of bread don't have enough top heat

[Lena]

not enough top heat

When, at a party or baked? Although I did not notice in either case, I bake everything small and have no problems with it.
Lena, it is clear, in general, this is precisely what practice confirms

or baked goods?

Baked goods

[Sveta]

Sveta, when baking small volumes, the top is baked normally, remember my baguettes, good crust, you even need to slightly reduce the baking time, against the standard in the French mode.

when baking small quantities, the top bakes normally

Thank you.

[Luda]

Luda, yes, I, too, rye breads are now quietly studying, but I don't like the taste of just homemade rye, no way. Neither tight nor soft .. none.
I like the ones in the store that are custard and all with a bunch of additives
And from home only mixed wheat-rye and sweet, like candy, which are of little use.
Healthy lifestyle is terribly hard

I also scratch turnips in heavy thoughts, what is there to add for softness, so that it becomes at least a little bit like the usual fluffs.

[Lena]

Lena, put more honey, my husband loves such bread, on the verge of a gingerbread Do not spare cumin and coriander, dark malt gives the same taste a pleasant one. In general, the taste develops over time. So you get used to it. My bread is always lightly salted, I always almost halve the salt, for the unaccustomed - the same strange. Here, in the recipes, I write the standard, but I myself do not fill up

A regular additive and treat it like a regular dry additive. Just save a little extra water for her and a mustache.

I answered with credit!

when you plan bread for every day as a working moment, then all the extra troubles are somehow not very pleasant.
If there is plenty of time and there is a mood, then you can conjure, soak, and activate. But if you want to quickly and angrily, then it is quite possible to simplify your life and it turns out no worse.
I am planning a long friendship with psyllium now, thank you, girls, for such a necessary discovery, without it I would not even go to rye bread at all, and with live yeast, but I'm not going to be bothered with either one or the latter.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Lena, show your psyllium bread

Yeah, I'll get a decent rye. I'm only a student so far. Now it does not suit at all either in taste or in appearance. But without a soft additive, I certainly would not even try. I have high hopes for psyllium.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, will you soak it first?

in fig .. I immediately put it in flour and yeast, too, just in flour. But I don't like the crumb itself. Heavy and raw.
And there is no desire to mess around with leavens either. The serum didn't work, and the strong acidity is annoying.
I will try to change the flour to a less active one and increase the amount of psyllium, there is an idea to experiment with a small additional addition of gum as a gluten substitute.
But perhaps it will be generally nonsense to taste. There are many thoughts - little experiment. Friendship with rye I have not succeeded yet.

I got a non-acidic one. The serum was fresh. But everyone has different tastes

in rye, the mad addiction to flour is still very annoying. I bought an "active" one and a horror movie to taste. And taking into account the fact that you are just learning and, perhaps, somewhere the crooked hand itself, then guess .. how much you are to blame, and how much flour.
Then the theory is good, but in practice you need to catch the right moment when you need to stop fermenting and it's time to bake.
So far, I hate rye pastries. There are more questions than answers and skills.

you need to catch the right moment when you need to stop fermenting and it's time to bake.

Well, this is by sight, people somehow cut off with flour, I don't know how, I just look, it increases up to 1.5 times by eye and bakes, if for some reason it stands for a long time and does not grow, like yesterday, I spit on everything and bake. Well 3-4 hours of fermentation is not for me

[Luda]

Luda, so I'm a complete dilettante with rye flour, I've been running from it all my life. Now, with rye bread, everything is incomprehensible, from the correct kolobok to the finished dough. I do everything, well, it seems right. The taste and appearance is nonsense. On the auto program (I thought, what if the machine is smarter - in general, something terribly tasteless is obtained) is also nonsense.
In theory, I understand, for example, that volume needs viscosity. But if you don't add water, the viscosity increases, but the crumb becomes utter horror.
The optimal amount, which now seems to be such, does not suit in terms of volume and taste. Hand reaches for wheat additive
But I have little psyllium to experiment with and no gum. So I'll buy it and try to continue in the direction of increasing the dilution of rye flour, that is, I still want to go closer to imitation of rye-wheat in consistency due to useful additives without gluten.
Well, you need to think about how you wrote about improving taste. Now it seems empty.
I will also try to solve the acid problem with a softer serum.

[Svetochka]

I am now planning a long friendship with psyllium, thanks, girls, for such a necessary discovery, without it I would not even go to rye bread at all

I will join the topic!
How timely I looked! Just stumbled upon a jar of psillum standing in the refrigerator for a year.
Background: I bake my favorite rye and semi-rye for two years: first in the oven, then in Panasik. Actually, white bread is not held in high esteem for me; I love rye, period! So I had to adapt.
Trying to give lightness and airiness to the semi - rye bread (well, you know what I mean), I bought this beast - psillum. I remember adding it once - but the result was not impressive. Either there was little psyllum, or something else. Friendship did not work out.
now I want to make a second attempt.
I will follow Lyudmila's recommendations and see what happens.

the best option is 300 ml of liquid + 1-1.5 hours. l. psyllium for 300 g of flour, the bread will turn out to be small, but the most perforated and, accordingly, soft.

I have different propensities: for 400 g of water - 300 wheat and 300 rye + for a bedding, and + 30 g of liquid kvass wort
2 tsp Is there enough psillum?
Usually with this composition, my bun is dense and plastic, and does not smear in a bucket due to p. oils.

I baked pure rye yesterday, Svetochka, he didn’t come up very well with me. But the bread turned out to be soft and tasty.

I found my photos of the first rye baked in Panasik 2 years ago. At zakavaska. It looks a little wetter. The weight of the loaf is 1100. Lyudmila, looks like it?

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[Milena Krymova]

Milena Krymova, yes, it looks like, but mine is drier or something, like that it does not reach for a knife, but is cut almost like wheat. I had a photo here and a recipe for rye-wheat Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4) # 5595

for 400 g of water - 300 wheat and 300 rye + for a bedding, and + 30 g of liquid kvass wort
2 tsp is there enough psillum?

Yes, I would just 2 tsp. and put it on, but I would have made more water up to 0.5 liters and a dietary regime

Lenochka, everything is in our hands, I now shove the same psyllium everywhere and it's not always successful, here casseroles with one psyllium turn out beautiful, fragrant, but the taste of semolina is not enough, the son did not finish, I brought it and feed it to the dog like sweets, the dog likes it

the dog likes

You get a waste-free production

Yeah, now dried bread and pies suit him, people say they seem to have grown healthier, but there is nothing superfluous on it

yes, it looks like it, but mine is drier or something, like that it doesn't reach for a knife, but it is cut almost like wheat. I used to have a photo and a recipe for the rye-wheat Bread Maker Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4) # 5595
Quote: Milena Krymova from Today at 19:52
for 400 g of water - 300 wheat and 300 rye + for a bedding, and + 30 g of liquid kvass wort
2 tsp Is there enough psillum?
Yes, I would just 2 tsp. and put it on, but I would have made more water up to 0.5 liters and a dietary regime

no, Lyudmila, I didn’t reach for the knife, but it wasn’t like a wheat one either. Obviously, the humpback was cut hot - how could I bear it, this was the FIRST RYE in Panasika I had!
And yet - it is sourdough! in those days, I probably did not hear about panifarin!

dietary regimen

I practically do not bake on automatic programs.

Well, this is as you like, I bake if the dough allows, and half allows, on the machine, but with pure rye, usually in manual mode. There is no kolobok on pure rye dough, and this plasticine has to be mixed and molded with a spatula. I'm not a burden, but the main thing here is not to be distracted ...