Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

Sadly, well, I shouldn't have bought a bread maker with my last money?

Nothing for nothing! What do you. Sveta, why are you scaring a person?
I have the wrong mixer. If you need to bake in the oven, I knead in HP.
Panasonic will mix perfectly.
And if you have to and bake.
Well, Sveta meant that if you do not want to bake in HP at all, then Panas is expensive just for mixing.

Well, Sveta meant that if you do not want to bake in HP at all, then Panas is expensive just for mixing.

That's right, and the kneader for the oven is more universal, it kneads and whips and mixes, well, the truth is, kill me, but I don't understand why Panasonic is needed only for kneading.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, we realized that you do not understand. it happens

[Vitaly]

Vitaly, I have several hp and a dough mixer, I know what I'm talking about. Cheap hp knead no worse than Panasonic, and the kneader has more opportunities for the oven and there are people who simply will not switch to hp baking, since they simply do not like hp bread.

[Svetlana]

Cheap hp knead no worse than Panasonic

Svetlana, here it is not quite so, or even not at all, I tried to knead and bake French bread according to the recipe from Panasik, which I get just beyond praise, using Redmond, and so in Redmond - even the taste is not the same - it does not mix like that , does not melt at those temperatures

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, but no one argues with you! The kneader is a necessary thing on the farm! Of course, people are different. For example, I am different - I DO NOT like bread from the oven, but only from Panasonic.

I don't have a kneader and I don't plan to

even the taste is not the same

Vooot! And the oven (mine at least) does not give such an aroma of freshly baked bread!

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, so you baked in Redmond, and not just kneaded, but you try to knead and bake in the oven. Any HP can handle the batch.



But I still like white more from the oven, but with rye flour only in HP, it comes out more magnificent and tastier.



People, I'm writing about kneading, that for all hp it comes out normally and Panasonic is not needed for kneading, but I’m talking about programs in return and pastries in Redmond. The stump in Panasonic is clear, the bread according to the program is better, but a person is planning to bake in the oven and for this Panasonic is not needed (my opinion).

friends so the question remained. I do not have the opportunity to knead the dough for 20 minutes by hand, I bought HP and expect a high-quality kneading from her. well, at least at the manual level from a weak beginner))) atypical ingredients (brewing, sourdough, etc.) for kneading randomly throw for any recipe? and what program?

[Katy]

Katy, any hp will knead the dough well, of course Panasonic kneads very well. I knead either on dumplings or on pizza. After the pizza I give another 30-40 minutes to go to HP.

Please explain why on pizza / dumplings, and not on "basic"? I want to understand the intricacies of choosing a program, and not just take it for granted If I need to bake rye bread or the dough, on the contrary, is very wet, for a ciabatta, for example, or yeast-free pure leavening made from oat / buckwheat flour, that is, completely different goals, then by what principle to choose a program for kneading?
Sedne, and after kneading you leave in the same place for fermentation?

[Katy]

Katy, only the dough shouldn't be steep. Cool HP Panasonic does not knead and can break. Panasonic is designed to knead soft dough with stretching gluten.

[Katy]

Katy, for the main 40 minutes alignment, I do not need it for the test.

Sedne, and after kneading you leave in the same place for fermentation?

Yes

Please explain why on pizza / dumplings, and not on "basic"?

Because on the "Main" the mixing does not start immediately, but after a pause, which is needed to equalize the balance of temperature and program time for an excellent final cooking result on a fully automatic program.

And on the modes Pizza / Pelmeni / Fast - the batch starts immediately.

Panasonic is designed to knead soft dough with stretching gluten.

I kneaded dumplings tight, all the rules, not much and groaned.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, and I "groan" and tears the dough. On dumplings, I prefer to make minced dough in a food processor / blender.

On dumplings, I prefer to make minced dough in a food processor / blender.

But I still prefer to buy them simply. While you blind them, you can discard your skates. Here I am a lazy person, right?

[Shine]

While you blind them, you can throw away the skates

Shine, you know, not everything is so ... scary Kneading in a combine with knives - sculpting with a machine in the form of a ravioli, and you can live

[Natalia]

Natalia, yes I have an atlas attachment for ravioli, but for some reason I didn't make friends with it.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I disagree, the radish is bad and interferes, there is no "delicate batch", it interferes with all the programs in the same way, it has only two mixing speeds, slowly and quickly, first 5 minutes slowly, then 20 minutes quickly, there are programs with a 5-minute standing at the beginning, after a slow kneading, there is, it does not stand on rye, but turns on. And in Panasik there are very interesting modes and mixing speeds, at first I went and was curious what else he was doing so unusually .. now he’s twisted like that, then he’s standing and turning again, and this can be done more than once, and this is only during the batch. I have something to compare with, all the same two hp to panasik: Mystery and Redmond. Before Panasik, I simply did not assume that such "complex" mixes are possible, and this affects baking even in the oven, at least somewhere. If you roughly twist the dough, it will not be the same as after delicate kneading ..

[Leavened]

HP Model 2511

Look, there are programs for yeast dough, specifically for making dough !!! Starting from program 15. This means that you can add the required ingredients and at the end of the program get the dough ready for cutting / filling / molding
If you only need kneading, then it is better to use the Pelmeni / Pizza / Fast programs, because kneading starts there immediately and at the end of the kneading there will be a ready-made dough to work with it further.

If you want to bake sourdough bread, take a look at the recipes for sourdough bread, which are baked in our ovens
Leavened (Copied from the first post of the topic)

Sourdough milk bread (klera1563)

Sourdough rye-wheat bread. (irga)

Borodino bread, according to the recipe of 1939 (Mikulishna)

If it turns out sour

I read somewhere, I don't remember where, - so that there is no sour taste, it is better to add a bit of fresh yeast to the sourdough dough. I began to add - not because the leaven is too weak - everything is fine with that. Indeed, the taste has improved.

Of course, there are much more recipes for sourdough bread in HP on the forum.

Pay attention to the moisture content of the dough: the balance in the recipes, and what exactly you get with your starting ingredients and with your flour.

[carefully]

Need to carefully read the Instruction!) Everything is there!
And about Kneading with pastries!
And about Kneading without baking.
Well, everything ~ all is laid out on the shelves. I bought it, read it, started.
There is a Dough program. She is kneaded, fermented, proofed, more kneaded. And the approach. Get it out and bakes! 2 h 20 min Know the problems!

I bought it, read it, started.

Ritochka, what a fine fellow you are, but I have only read the list of programs and some recipes so far
I baked today in the night ... (almost Alexander Sergeich) on a rye prog, rye-wheat bread, almost according to the recipe for program number 9 from the instructions, alterations:

Serum 300g
Wheat flour 1s 200g
Rye flour 200gr
Fermented dry rye malt 25g
salt 1.5 tsp l.
honey 1st. l.
butter 15g
yeast 1.5 h. l.
ground coriander and grain about 1 tbsp. l.
cumin 1h l.

Plump, dark, fragrant, not very wet, my husband was just, he even thought at first that it was pure rye, had to disappoint. that, I turn off the program before and put it on baking separately.

I am telling you how the first experience of kneading dough went for the subsequent baking of bread in the oven. to represent the consistency of the dough, here's the recipe:
280 g refreshed sourdough
200 g wheat. wallpaper flour
160 rye flour
160 water
salt 8 gr

I threw all this into hp and chose the "rye dough" mode (21 numbers in my model 2511). I set a spatula for rye dough. at first there was "leveling" for a while, then the batch was turned on. then the "rise" indicator came on, I turned it off and took out the dough (the rise and proofing were planned separately). and what did I see? 1/3 of the dough in the center is wound on a spatula, and the rest is smeared on the walls. there is no trace of integrity at all. I had to remove and knead everything by hand. what did I choose wrong? I didn't have completely rye flour, and the humidity was the most standard (500 flour per 300 water). wrong mode? what was it then?

Is there a chance to knead dough for wheat-rye bread in xn, so that the dough does not stick to all walls? I have not yet tried to cook this according to the recipe from the instructions, I really wanted to bake it with my sourdough.
and still an incomprehensible moment. the total time for the selected mode is "2 hours", and the instructions indicate that the leveling is 45-60 minutes, for mixing 10. where then is 2 hours?

This I have not tried to cook according to the recipe from the instructions

You need to try, see the bun. Sometimes with a silicone spatula you have to rake the flour to the center from the walls and corners (this is especially true for rye bread).
Take your time to bake complex bread at once. Read the topic about KOLOBOK. Start with plain bread. In the instructions for Panasonic, good proven recipes are given.

Can I use a spatula from a multicooker?

If you cook bread with rye flour specifically according to the instructions from HP, then the result is also unstable and you have to scrape the dough off the walls?

When kneading bread with rye flour, I always help with a spatula. There, at the very beginning, you just need help.

Can I use a spatula from a multicooker?

Is it silicone?
Pure rye capricious. Don't start with it. Bake medium-sized wheat. It will be stable.

[Katy]

Katy, you have very little rye flour. To use the rye and scallop mode, the recipe must contain at least 50% rye flour. Therefore, there was not enough time for kneading, so it did not knead at all ...

Mode 15 "Basic" dough would be more suitable for you, and you need a regular spatula.

I have not yet tried to cook this according to the recipe from the instructions, I really wanted to bake it with my sourdough.

And it is better to start just with the recipes from the instructions in order to understand and feel how the device works, why, why and what can be expected and received in general.

and still an incomprehensible moment. the total time for the selected mode is "2 hours", and the instructions indicate that the leveling is 45-60 minutes, for mixing 10. where then is 2 hours?

Yes, interesting. Probably the dough just stands after kneading until the total time is 2 hours, then the program ends. Need to check

Thank you. all questions have been answered!

plastic round spatula for multicooker, designed for Ponasonics coating

Did I choose the right mode for my goal?

NO, I explained above.

do you need to scrape off the walls constantly during the kneading process, or is it enough once?

See for yourself the process and result of mixing and act as appropriate.

and explain, please, what is there with time overlays, how 2 hours is obtained. and why did the lift indicator light up after mixing, although according to the instructions it should not be?

In a bread maker, there is simply no time without a specific indication, therefore, after kneading, the proofing indicator always lights up, even if it’s just a pause between batches.

plastic round spatula for multicooker, designed for Ponasonics coating

No, you need a silicone flat.
Here is such

🔗

[Waist]

Waist, I understood everything, thanks, I just read your message after my own.

[mamusi]

mamusi, you love whole grain flour very much. Here, you got a cupcake, did you bake it?

Healthy Whole Grain Mini Cupcake in Bread Maker (Valeria 12)

[Waist]

Waistthank you, I also love everything whole grain, bran and healthy

Yesterday I baked bread according to the recipe from the instructions, without changing anything, from plain flour + c / c flour. mode "basic". the bread was baked, of course, there were no complaints about the crust and the appearance, but the crumb turned out to be some kind of straight airy fluffy, not at all suitable for slicing for butters. I just do not know what the bread should be at the exit from the HP, no one has treated me so far, I am a pioneer)) and is such a crumb a defect in bread, or, on the contrary, is everyone striving for a soft crumb?

[Katy]

Katy, I also do not like the crumb of bread from HP. And even now, if I don't have time to bake, then we buy in the store. This is rare, but it does happen. And so - kneading in HP, baking in the oven. In CP, the baking temperature is much lower than in the oven. Perhaps this makes the crumb more tender or something.

[less fluffy]

I just do not know what the bread should be at the exit from HP, no one has treated me yet, I am a pioneer))

It should be what you want, and you need to learn how to do it.
So that the crumb is less fluffy, can slightly reduce yeast.
If you addslightly less waterthan was added for fluffy bread, the appearance may suffer, but the fluffiness will be less.
To make the crumb more elastic, more sandwich, you need to add sourness (sour milk / ascorbic acid ...) instead of water or to water. Many people use serum.
You can add Japanese choux pastry to the dough, the bread will also be more elastic and "juicy".
Or bake a special sandwich bread on a special program, I don't remember which one in Vapsha KhP, I'll see later.

and is such a crumb a defect in bread or, on the contrary, is everyone striving for a soft crumb?

This is not a defect, no. The bread turned out to be delicious. And the crumb can be "tamed"
Katya, that's your name, isn't it?
The bread should be allowed to cool well before slicing. While the bread is cooling, it is baked inside. Cooling down, the bread crumb becomes denser. The cooled bread is cut easier and smoother.

It seems that the bread maker can do everything by itself, but without human intervention, it's just a bunch of iron and plastic.
Learn everything Read, ask, practice ...

Katya, have you been baking bread for a long time?

In KhP the baking temperature is much lower than in the oven

Anh, and at what T do they bake in the oven?

Perhaps this crumb turns out to be more tender or something

Yes, and all the time I thought that the tender crumb was due to the fact that the dough in HP is more moist.

[Natalia]

Natalia, everything is different. For the first 15 minutes I bake bread at 220 (the oven is preheated to 250), while I put on steam so that the bread does not set quickly with a crust and can grow. After 15 minutes, I take out the pan with the remaining water and reduce the temperature to 180 degrees, but with convection, so in reality it is more likely closer to 200.

And another moment. In HP we have a large "square" loaf, where the area of ​​the piece inside the crust is large. And the loaves have a much smaller sectional area, therefore, they are more convenient for sandwiches, the crust holds less crumb. (I hope the idea is clear)

[Waist]

WaistThank you very much for your valuable advice! I really like to get to the bottom of the essence, and not stupidly follow the algorithm, without going into details I will experiment.
I have been on the bread topic quite recently, about a month. This business grabbed me very much and started headlong with baking in the oven (it just appeared the other day), gradually studying the issues of gluten, the subtleties of kneading, baking bread with sourdough, brewing, dough and without .. I read the book by Anna Kitaeva, gradually master from there recipes. And xp is generally a new beast for me

[Katy]

Katy, and I was fascinated by this case. First I tried it, then I bought a Panasonic. And also for kneading dough.For 1.5 years I only mixed it in it, then I bought a planetary mixer and now I choose where to knead. But I bake it exclusively in the oven. I experimented with HP, but we didn't get bread from it. Even with preliminary dough. The husband is generally not picky, but my mother flatly refused him. Therefore, either an oven, or a temporary option from the store. But now we have very decent bread in the store, this is not a factory one, but from their mini-bakery. And it is normally attenuated, the crumb is very tasty and of high quality. Just buying constantly is expensive, a baguette costs like a kilo of flour

[Anchic]

Anchic, so, you can be consulted specifically on the issue of kneading dough in hp? I originally bought it for this,) but I was greedy and did not stop choosing a dough mixer in order to get a universal unit that would bake at the same time

[Anchic]

Anchic, yeah, Anh, in KhP there are only 160-170 * baked goods on the Main one in my opinion. Wet / juicy bread is obtained. But on the second day it is normal, and it is normal for sandwiches, my daughter makes sandwiches for herself almost every day, she treated me to my husband and I today I smear my bread with butter in the morning, too normal Although, everyone has their own "normal", and everyone has different

Katyplease Bread, how much in this word!
It's so exciting. Enjoy the learning process!

[Katy]

Katy, I also first bought HP just to bake in it if anything. Ask me what I can - I will help You can contact me

Waist, Natalia, yes, to each his own "normal". I sometimes experiment with bread, bake something else. So in most cases mine do not even notice the difference. Although, in my opinion, the difference can be very noticeable. And they only notice if something is poured into the bread. And all sorts of nuances with doughs, mature dough -

I sometimes experiment with bread, bake something else. So in most cases mine do not even notice the difference. Although, in my opinion, the difference can be very noticeable. And they only notice if something is poured into the bread. And all sorts of nuances with doughs, mature dough -

with mine I have the same



Those who bake in the oven, you usually immediately take out the dough after kneading, and then let it come up in another place, distance (in the form or on the hearth), or if you "forget" the dough in hp and overexpose it there after rising, how much critical?
I leaned towards hp, in contrast to the kneader, precisely because of its automation, for the ability to throw everything, turn it on and run away on business, and not all with my hands



although when I was just starting to immerse myself in the bread theme, I was completely overwhelmed by the feeling of living dough in my own hands and its metamorphosis, well, reality quieted my ardor, and I had to entrust the business to automation, because a small child grows by leaps and bounds, and no longer gives continuous 20 minutes for kneading and then also to do the rise and proofing strictly according to the hours - too.

I just wondered yesterday, how do the ingredients that are thrown into HP for baking with a delay of several hours feel? nothing happens to them from such a prolonged abnormal condition (semi-wet flour, yeast outside the refrigerator, etc.)

Everything is great with ingredients! Trust me! Many of us bake with a delay.

Ritochka, what a fine fellow you are, but I have only read the list of programs and some recipes so far

And here I am somehow accustomed to read ...
I always read. Apparently such nature or profession imposes ~ study the theory!
In short, I read, underline with a marker and make marks with a simple pencil. Moreover, I am writing something new side by side in the fields. Amendments. Or ideas!
Everything is as in the notes!)))
Then it's easy to search ...
I put the instructions in a plastic cover. Also a habit!

[Katy]

Katy, on the forum there is information about kneading dough in HP (Hitachi) for baking in the oven, see if it may be useful to you
Wheat flour gingerbread man (master class)
But for baking on the automatic program in Panasonic, the dough should be softer, more moist.

Check out the first page of this topic for some links.

I put the instructions in a plastic cover.

I paste over the covers and the most used pages (mode tables) with a special wrapping film.But I can't make notes, purely psychologically I can't, as at school they taught that you can't write / scratch / mark anything in textbooks, that's how it "sits" with me. I can mark something neatly with a simple pencil or a sticker with a note stick, but right in the instructions, no.

Although in the multilingual instructions for the printer I was tortured all the time looking for what I needed and in the end I painted everything with a marker It became convenient

[Natashenka, Ritochka]

Natashenka, Ritochka, how we are all different and the same at the same time, I scratch right in the instructions, but I'm going to copy it so as not to get dirty to holes, but to remove it itself, but we love to bake bread the same way
I am now in Minsk with my husband's mother, Tumanchik and I live in neighboring houses, greetings to everyone from sunny Belarus

how they taught at school what is not allowed

At school, textbooks were passed down from generation to generation, Natasha, there is something else, I am a teacher myself and I know what I am saying. It's unpleasant when your child gets a textbook written by someone else's hand.
But this is a different matter. All ~ all our notes will go to our daughters and daughters-in-law!) And they will be useful to us in old age. Why not highlight the place that is important to you with a bright green marker?)
Why not make a note next to it in the fields "less sugar" for example !?)
From this the Book comes to life! Becomes your companion.
But you can, after all, and without marking spoil, spill something, get dirty ... it's not in the letters!
I hold a book on a separate table, cook on another, go up and peep if necessary!
Now almost all textbooks are in school ~ workbooks (workbooks)
They write directly to them. Fill in, mark. Life has changed ...