Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

Why don't you do it? Omelka has a batch for 2-3 minutes, then the timer is on the main program, after 7-10 hours the bread comes out very tasty, maybe Natashin can put it in the same way? Just remove a little yeast.

her ... with bad kneading in the heat in the dough, any unhealthy crap develops. Notice the "long bread" either kept in the refrigerator for a long time, or they put acid in it.
If the kitchen is cold, no problem. If it's warm, you can get bullshit and your stomach hurts. Standing .. it takes no more than 45 minutes - well, there is an hour, if it is very warm



knead and leave, this is from the series "bread without kneading" Mix and leave there. But there are laws so as not to get poisoned. I haven't studied.
I only know that it is important to knead it in time, so that the oxygen kills the harmful fauna there or it is necessary to refrigerate it, or acid.
In general, it is simply impossible. It can be harmful to health if it is warm.

I disagree, the leaven is kept warm for a long time, the dough is often left overnight at room temperature, I often bake long-lasting bread from Mistletoe, everything is fine.

[mamusi]

mamusi, thanks for the support. I read, I read about dumplings and pre-mixes, and my head is spinning. The feeling that I am mastering a spaceship

dough - wetter than dough with a bunch of yeast and a bunch of oxygen inside. Therefore, it is chemically active. All putrefactive bacteria do not live in it.
Sourdough can also rot if not done according to the rules. It also usually contains rye flour, which is somehow special in terms of the content of beneficial bacteria.

Therefore, before, eternal leavens were made on rye flour, well, grandmother's bowls with dry dough, but not on wheat flour.

And the dough is a drier instance and less oxygen and something else. And it is especially dangerous if only on wheat flour.
But ... girls, I haven't studied this issue so seriously. Why wheat dough cannot be left without kneading for a long time.
Maybe it is possible under some conditions, I don't know.

I only remember that there was something there that should be further clarified, something unsafe

[Lena]

Lena, well, a preparation for sourdough bread without industrial yeast can stand for 6-7 hours without heaving, or even all night.

[Sveta]

the magic word "leaven". Concentrated semi-finished product with its fauna that calls the tune.
But, Sveta, I cannot argue here, I do not have the necessary knowledge. Sourdough, dough, dough, just dough, dough with dough or sourdough - these are chemically different things. One can be warm, the other not.
I am not a technologist, I do not even want to challenge your practical experience.

But I myself would be afraid to leave the dough on wheat flour from the book on HP without kneading for a long time. Maybe you can, maybe not. I would be scared.



in terms of security, everything is generally very difficult. For example, flour + yeast = this is a semi-finished product. Flour + yeast + salt = can already be called a dough. Salt greatly affects the rate of degradation of the dough. The dough is strongly kneaded during kneading and just mixed with a fork - it can also stand in different ways, because the amount of oxygen inhibits certain putrefactive bacteria.
One stirring in the process has some magical effect on stability.

There is a whole chemistry of processes. I didn't bother with it.

the magic word "leaven". Concentrated semi-finished product with its fauna that calls the tune.

So the bread preparation is no longer sourdough, but the same dough with yeast, only wild.

harmful or not is determined by the presence of harmful bacteria in the dough and the accumulated chemical compounds. Like milk in the fridge. It can rot there, or it can be useful to turn sour.
And these reptiles have their own conditions for life.
A good starter culture is a strong colony of beneficial microorganisms in large numbers, which inhibit the development of bad ones. Therefore, when you throw the dough to these heroes, they call the tune while they have the strength to do so.
The leaven and dough are killed when bad bacteria take over. When there are many of them, we immediately see; when there are few, then we may not even notice.
As a rule, from practical experience, pioneers warn how long it is safe to use starter cultures and ferment the dough.

If in practice it has been verified that it is safe, then what is the conversation about?
But if you experiment yourself, then I pass. I have little knowledge.

Girls.
Of the simple bread, I want to draw attention to this one

Quick bread with semolina in a bread maker

Wonderful recipe from Elena Bo. I have 257 more HP series - an old woman, compared to yours- :) For many years I have been returning to this recipe. Especially when there are strong seasonal changes, for example, the apartment is damp.
The bottom line is the semolina recipe. It allows you to achieve harmony between water and flour without much effort.
The only thing is that I don't like fast mode. Still, you need to live a dough, think, distance. Therefore, I bake this bread in the Basic mode.
And yet - it goes well for butters, there is a certain light rubberiness in the crumb.

How many spoke a little above about water, hard water, without any recipe, I want to remind you. When boiling potatoes, save water from them. A couple of days in a jar in the refrigerator is normally stored. But this starchy water will add a noticeable splendor to your bread! Do not forget to take into account the presence of salt in this broth and do not add salt to the dough.

Delicious bread for you!

[Lena]

Lena, I here read your advice above and fainted, or rather probably found out one of my failures with Easter cakes in Panas.
Recently, she began to freeze live yeast and threw them directly into the cakes, naturally activating it in water with sugar and water. And you write that this cannot be done. Tell me, maybe because of this, imperfection was observed?

Girls thank you all for the warm welcome. Hope to make friends with HP. I studied the instructions at night. Even reached the year of production of the stove. And that she shows me 2012 Can this be? What has the stove been doing for almost 5 years?

[Mirabel]

Mirabel,
Maybe I'll upset you
But my pressed yeast is always stored in the freezer, packaged by me in 12 grams and rolled in foil, like a truffle.
In order not to get into an unpleasant situation with them, I always first make dough with them. Without any defrosting. They are instantly stirred in liquid with a fork. Dough stands in the microwave next to a cup of boiling water. At this time, I collect the bucket.
Everything else is wet, except for the oils, down, then flour and turn on the dumplings. The batch has gone. Then the dough came up - it means the yeast won't let you down, I pour the dough out of the bucket, everything continues to work there ...

I pour the dough out of the bucket, everything continues to work there ...

My clever!

[Tatyana]

Tatyana, no, I was not upset. On the contrary, I realized that it was not the yeast, but the wrong program.
Thank you!

[Vika]

girls, yeast yeast strife. Some will survive, others will die. You would first check the manufacturer for compatibility, and then rejoice.
And the freezer, the freezer is different. And freezing, well, with a minimum of air or not, different freezing speed.
In short, if it works, then it's great.
But you can only count on this after verification.

But, Vika, lack of baking in HP, this is something new at all))
Inject, how did you achieve it.

Yeast, if they die slightly, then they would give you a smell, if strongly: you are bad rise you will understand the smell. If the rise is good and there is no smell, then not yeast.

describe in detail your defect.

Girls, well, I put Natasha's bread, like this after the first batch it comes out


The dough is visible, this time using Sokolniki flour.I usually don't buy it, but there was no other one in the store. I used to do it on another, but the picture is the same.

[Sedne]

Sedne, Light, and how much has passed since the Kneading, that is, How Much Is Kneading Already Going?



Today at 7 in the morning I put Natasha on ... and immediately left to fill up (the night was difficult). Again I forgot the muddler to look in ... How does he knead there?
Light, if the Kneading went through, I would add 1 spoon or 2 flour to the 2nd Knead ...




The photo shows that he did not have enough flour at all. But the flour we have is different. And the weather, humidity ...

[Margarita]

Margarita, this is 15 minutes, I could not stand it and added 50-60 grams of flour, the bun was formed, but still sticky and mature.

The photo shows that he did not have enough flour at all. But the flour we have is different. And the weather, humidity ...

What a little bit, there is no kolobok at all, the mixer interfered with the sticky slurry from side to side. The dough was thinner than the Masterpiece initially.

and what ... is it with standing?

[Lena]

Lena, without, at the end of the first batch I could not resist and added flour, but after standing, even with added flour, the bun was very sticky. I smeared a bucket that I had added flour.

[Sveta]

Sveta, there at Natalie humidity 0.72. This is normal humidity for makfa, for example, as a rule. Sokolnicheskaya .. FIG knows. Maybe she has 0.65 at the beginning.
But Sokolnicheskaya should gobble up 0.72 with standing, the only question is the time of swelling.
Try to do it on a dietary one with standing for 40 minutes.
Or rather, not even so.
Run the dumplings until mixing evenly. Wait 10 minutes and then start the main program. There will be 10 + 30 minutes = 40 and the program is basic, if you want it faster, and if it tastes better, then put low-yeast

[Lena]

Lena, you think to beat yourself in the hands, so as not to add flour But it's not about flour, I did it on Makfa before, and I did it on my beloved Belonezhnaya, but all the same (no bun). It seems to me that we have such humidity in the nearest shops.

and if it's tastier, then put a low-yeast

And how much yeast to take?

I'll explain to you. Normal humidity at our makfa and so on at the beginning is 0.65.
And 0.70 is already wet Velcro. But only at the beginning. After standing, it perfectly eats up to 0.75 moisture with the formation of a completely normal dough, even not very wet.
The only question is time.

Although the French extra and white and blue would not gobble up. These are low-capacity. Sokolnicheskaya seemed to be normal.

[Lena]

Lena, and why does everyone have some kind of kolobok, but I simply do not have it?

Well, everyone has a loose concept. Someone just doesn't look into HP
0.75 is a lot for domestic flour at once.
If only it is well, very dry. At normal humidity, it needs to swell.
Perhaps .. someone is pouring not wet serum, but there the kefir is diluted with water. That is, the density of its liquid is higher and the humidity is lower.
0.75 can immediately be eaten by very steep flour, such as fast and strong Altai flour and aleika.
Makfa, the falconer ... no one else has that ability.

Throw yeast by half, if it's scary, then by 1/3

[Lena]

Lena, that is, I should reduce the liquid for 1 batch yes?

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I correct my bun so that it is going and stopped smearing by the end of the batch on the full program. So it kneads better, and the texture of the finished bread turns out to be my favorite. The bun itself remains "lively" - it slowly spreads out after stopping the kneading and during proving the dough is evenly distributed over the bucket. So evenly distributed, with a small dome, it is baked. Not on its side, not with a torn roof, not with a collapsed one.
That is, the gingerbread man keeps on developed gluten, which can develop towards the end. If my kolobok is ready to the middle of the batch, then I either dance (add liquid), or eat dense crooked bread

That is, nothing needs to be added to the first batch. There, gluten only begins to "think", and in the second batch it already begins to develop. Without the development of gluten, the kolobok will not gather. When you add flour to the sticky dough, only the consistency changes, but it just sticks like a lump.This is not the development of gluten, but simply physical: a spatula rotates in the middle and the sticky dough winds over itself. Such dough normally sticks off the walls of the bucket and forms a bun with its stickiness. But once again - there is LITTLE gluten in a kolobok saturated with flour. A tight bun is kneaded worse and by knocking out the gluten against the walls does not develop / stretch, which can make the bread tough when finished.

Svetik, litter, this is not a reproach to you. Now I am interested to make out the option with your flour to the end

[Sveta]

Sveta.. our flour is, I repeat, 0.65, very cool 0.7.
0.75 is a lot.
Rather, this wonderful dough is a must with standing and unsticking in the end kneading from the sides of the bucket. Delicate.
At the end of kneading, a tied jellyfish. Faked, but it all came off.
But .. it will not be a round bun and great.

[Natalia]

Natalia, and at the end of the first batch you also have a liquid mass, without a kolobok at all?

our flour is, I repeat, 0.65, very cool 0.7.
0.75 is a lot.

Honestly, I did not understand anything, what you are proposing, whether or not it is necessary to reduce the liquid

Such dough normally sticks off the sides of the bucket and forms a bun with its stickiness.

I do not stick

yeast yeast strife. Some will survive, others will die.

I have these - in a week they get worse in the freezer, and after 2 weeks - in the trash

my dough was slightly thicker than for pancakes

Well, Natasha is sitting in Ireland. She has bourgeois flour.
And her answers won't give you anything.

And I suggest you make it according to the recipe, without adding flour, but with standing for 40 minutes so that our flour has time to swell.

Next, what I see in the photo.
There is no porridge there. There is a very wet dough that is just starting to stretch. Such a wet dough in HP will not collect into a dry bun. It only at the end of the batch should be a single whole so that you fake it, but it completely moved away from the walls. To smear under the shoulder blade has ceased.
For this, I suggest pre-aging.
This will give you delicious bread ..




or .. reduce the moisture. The coefficient 0.65 will gobble up our flour without standing. But it's less tasty

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, try to remove water before the first batch to 0.65. And watch how it mixes - if the kolobok is very cool, then add a little bit. In the second batch, you can also see how it will look. I'm not baking HP, but that's not the point. I have a favorite recipe for sliced ​​loaf. I initially pour 200g of water and add the rest according to the situation until the dough becomes visually necessary for me moisture. And here it all depends on the flour - sometimes 10g is enough to add, but sometimes it is clearly more - I usually do not weigh the additive. I just add a teaspoon and that's it, I wait for the daub to collect and see the elasticity / hardness of the kolobok.

Natalia, and at the end of the first batch you also have a liquid mass, without a bun at all?

Sveta, I'm completely on the program, without pre-mixing everything works out great. I remember Lyuda has a publication when she had soup in a bucket at the first kneading, the dough is even thinner than yours. But then it was kneaded into a normal dough and there was a bun.
Pre-mixing is as an option in your case that you can't get a bun.
If others do it from such flour, then it is logical to look for differences in other ingredients.

If others do it from such flour, then it is logical to look for differences in other ingredients.

so I weigh everything on the scales, the serum can really be thicker than mine

This is how the ciabatta is kneaded - at first, it's a slurry straight. And then the dough gradually gathers and begins to peel off the walls. But if you stop mixing, it immediately spreads. Only here in HP the ciabatta is difficult to knead.

I do not stick

Sveta, this is about your version, when you add flour and a tight bun is formed, which gathers because of its stickiness, and not because of the development of gluten. And consequently - a tight bun does not mix well.

This is how the ciabatta is kneaded - at first, it's a slurry straight. And then the dough gradually gathers and begins to peel off the walls. But if you stop mixing, it immediately spreads.Only here in HP the ciabatta is difficult to knead.

Anya, with a similar effect I get a batch: the bun is collected at the end and slowly spreads out during the proofing.

I offered an option, as Lena writes: do not touch anything in the first batch, and in the second the kolobok should come together by the end.
Lena also suggested increasing the pause + 10 minutes of waiting before setting to the Main mode.

[Lena]

Okay, now I'll put it on again. The stove will only cool down, put it on low-yeast. It became the most interesting.
Lena, is the French thing good flour? And then I tried only the whole grain French thing (I liked it), but the simple wheat one did not, and which one is better Extra or premium (I'll take it).

And it turns out for me, on its own, on Makfa, and the last times on flour of the 1st grade ...



Now I took it out ~ All the same ... and Sophia ...
That is, there is 1 spoonful of rye flour and 1 spoonful of c / s and the roof cracked
I suspect my serum (I shamelessly poured it into a bucket today, NOT strained)
Here is the result. The curd was there ~ he thickened the dough for me!

[for sure]

Girls, well, I live next to Sveta and there is only one flour in the shops
I'm not just calling numbers.
And then Sveta, if 0.75 is a very wet dough at first on this type of flour. It is unlikely to gather in a short batch in HP without standing.
In general, I would say that 0.75 and not all flour will eat with standing.
If for sure, then it is necessary to stand and reduce to 0.7.

And then a normal dough like a comma has a chance to get it.
0.75 in fact, you also need to watch. Perhaps it will not give a comma.

To be honest, Anna gave the right advice. Knead at about 65 and add as you pick up the bun so that there is a wet bun at the end.

But .. girls, standing and standing again - albeit with more delicious bread.
Ideally, do like Anna, but with standing.



Ritus, and your serum is like water? and you do with standing?

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Len, or I'm so dumb, or sho
Well, I don’t understand what kind of numbers 0.75 and 0.65, which you use all the time (you scare newbies)))))
Humidity of someone what is it ??
Air? Flour? Hand creams?

Well, I don’t understand what kind of numbers 0.75 and 0.65, which you use all the time (you scare newbies)))))

You are not the only one, I have already asked 3 times I do not understand

And what does Light have to do with it if

So nobody blames the Light for anything. We are all trying to figure out her problem.

[fffuntic]

with standing for 40 minutes so that our flour has time to swell.

fffuntic, Lena, that is, you need to knead the dough by adding yeast, sugar, salt and leave for 40 minutes or 1 hour? Or add yeast, sugar, salt to the main batch? Something I got confused. There is also a dough like Svetlana's.

Girls, I'm going to put it now, decide whether to reduce my liquid or not?

[Lena]

Lena, well, I, in general, bake with dough And in the oven. Just flour is so different. Once I ate 330g of flour with 200g of water and that's it, it was impossible to add more. Although with a coefficient. 0.65 should have eaten 210g at least. Now I take either Sokolnicheskaya, or an extra from the Tverskoy mill (it happens in Magnets). She takes some water well.

But I had sadness - I took Lukhovitskaya, it was normal. Then we bought 5 packs. And she turned out to be with some byaka - on the third day the bread began to stink unpleasantly and the crumb was sticky



Svetlana, decrease at the beginning, during the bookmark. And watch how it mixes.

Ritus, is your serum like water? and you do with standing

Usually ~ yes!)
serum like water!
I don’t add water at all (I use pure whey, but I drain it well ~ transparent)
But the gray hair ... I loaded the hemro-strainer ~ on the table there was ~ t then a room, preparing already, well, I poured it in!
And the roof isn't much, but the dome is beautiful ... round!
I'll go take a picture ...

water to flour, Natasha has 360 ml (g) to 500 g of flour, that is, 360/500 = 0.75, neglected moisture from the oil.

the bread on the third day began to stink unpleasantly and the crumb is sticky

If I'm not mistaken potato stick.

Well, I don’t understand what kind of numbers 0.75 and 0.65, which you operate all the time with (scaring beginners)))))
You are not the only one, I have already asked 3 times I do not understand

wait all of you !!!!
You are talking to WHO now!
As in that joke ...
The main thing is that the speaker (Lena) can understand what it is about !!!!!!!!!