"Eternal" leaven

... proportions according to the descriptions of 100 flour and 100 water. after the first day, there are small bubbles in all jars. I feed on the second day the same small bubbles, only there are more of them) on the third day there in the jars where the leaven was thinner - exfoliation occurs (water on top) .. and no bubbles

The proportions you have 100 flour and 100 water - is it 100 grams or ml? It is very likely that it was measured in ml. No bubbles or growth should be expected from such a liquid. Make it thicker - definitely!

Like a prescription. 100 g flour + 100 ml water. The leaven fermented the next morning (less than a day). Added 100 g flour + 100 ml water. After a few hours, she fermented strongly, then fell off. And nothing else happens. In the morning I added the last portion of flour and water. Nothing. Maybe she messed up? Tell me - when can you say unequivocally that everything is already and start over?

The first stage of fermentation is almost always the most violent, the second is quiet and it may seem that it is completely motionless. In the third stage, growth begins. If there is no growth on the fifth day, give her a little more flour while feeding. 10 - 15 percent.
It is unambiguous to say that "everything is lost, chief, everything is lost" (c) no earlier than seven full days.
PS For a long time, no one has taken this leaven out in three days. At least five.

The proportions you have 100 flour and 100 water - is it 100 grams or ml? It is very likely that it was measured in ml. No bubbles or growth should be expected from such a liquid. Make it thicker - definitely!

She gave 100 g of flour and 100 ml of water. It turned out not liquid, but rather thick.

It is unambiguous to say that "everything is lost, chief, everything is lost" (c) can be no earlier than seven full days.
PS For a long time, no one has taken this leaven out in three days. At least five.

Thank you! Calmed down!

Good day! I tried to make sourdough. Like a prescription. 100 g flour + 100 ml water. The leaven fermented in the morning of the next day (less than a day). Added 100 g flour + 100 ml water. After a few hours, she fermented strongly, then fell off. And nothing else happens. In the morning I added the last portion of flour and water. Nothing. Maybe she messed up? Tell me - when can you say unequivocally that everything is already and start over?

Maybe you, too, try to put it in the refrigerator, and she, like mine, will come to its senses. It all started for me the same way as for you. Although, of course, I am an advisor

The leaven has finally grown. Who knows if she's ready? Is it enough that it has doubled, or are there any other signs? How not to miss the moment of readiness? I just never saw the leaven, so I can hardly imagine what I am growing. Thanks in advance for the advice.

If after three days your leaven has risen (bubbled) twice, then feel free to cook bread. It's only better to add a bit of yeast for safety net. And then you will already understand what it is capable of and you will bake bread without yeast. Good luck!

Thank you!

Good evening everyone!

After the first failure with the onion sourdough, I decided to go for eternal (already set)! I read, read, absorb, but so far I cannot find the answer to a very important question for me. And I would like to consult with you.
The fact is that I come home at 19:00. if you bake sourdough bread on a weekday, and at the same time store it in the refrigerator, how can you manage to bake the bread?
Options:
1. come home, take out the leaven, feed. I'm waiting for it to rise twice, it will work (here the question is, what time this can happen). After that, I bring in some bread and put it on the proofing for the night (in HP) and on the timer so that the bread is already baked by the morning (by the way, I get up at 8 am). But here the dough may overoxidize.
2.the same thing, but put the dough in the refrigerator for the night, get up in the morning and bake while I'm going to work.

Maybe there are some other options? Share!

Maybe there are some other options? Share!

Of course there is. And I will take the liberty of offering you a couple. Let's raise her, then feed her for a couple of days so that she gets stronger and we will select proportions for her feeding based on your work schedule. You can take her out of the refrigerator in the evening, feed her to wake her up (she usually sleeps in the cold), and feed her again in the morning, but in such proportions that by 19 o'clock she was ready to go to the dough. I think we'll catch the number by trial. And also, you can keep it without a refrigerator and feed it in the morning and in the evening by taking 5-10 grams of starter culture and 50-100 g of feed. ... if you don't mind tormenting.
Now the main thing, as I understand it, is to grow. And already "getting involved in the battle" and not far from victory.

Good afternoon, comrades! I make the leaven once. Yesterday afternoon, I kneaded and left, covering the bowl with foil with holes. In the morning I found out that the mass increased by 2-3 times and almost does not fit. I transplanted it into a jar and fed it according to the recipe, the day is not over yet, but it has already grown 3 times, all bubbles.
actually I have a question, what to do? to divide and bake today or again to take more containers and wait for the expiration of 3 days?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

PS: I probably still need to clarify, I'm going to bake rye, yeast-free bread.
If someone pokes my nose into a reference to such recipes, I will be very grateful, I have not yet managed to master the entire forum.

Of course there is.

Vika, thank you very much for your attention and desire to help!
I liked your first option! Now it's up to you to grow a good leaven!
Keeping it warm will be inappropriate, because we eat very little bread (there are two of us for now), although we eat every day. The rolls are enough for about a week. So it will be necessary to choose the best option for the starter culture when stored in the refrigerator and there is a healthy bread))

The leaven has been standing for a day, something is even starting to ferment there. It will be interesting to raise your little animal

actually I have a question, what to do? to divide and bake today or again to take more containers and wait for the expiration of 3 days?

Up to 3 days is not a sourdough, the final processes are still going on in it. After a vigorous fermentation on the 1st day, a symbiosis of LAB and "wild" yeast begins to emerge. A new rapid growth of the starter culture will inform you about reaching parity on the 3rd day or later (how lucky you are).

thank you very much 1 time is always exciting)))

Good evening everyone!
So, my leaven is the second day. And something strange is happening to her! How much I had read before about breeding starter cultures, I have never seen anything like it (or maybe this is how winding looks like?)

It rises, becomes covered with bubbles, like everything is ok:


But on top of the zkavask lies a cap made of a dried layer:


And it is quite dense, so I lifted it with a fork:


Sourdough on peeled rye flour. I do not breed by grams, because 100 to 100 I would simply not mix the dough. I bring to the consistency of thick sour cream. I cover it with a towel and put it in a warm place.
I suspect that the air is very dry, because even when baking bread, I do not report quite a lot of flour (from the one that is needed according to the recipe). I don't know if it's okay. Now the leaven smells sour, it even gives off vinegar. I fed it a second time, I wait another day

To prevent crusting, tighten the neck of the jar with cling film and prick several holes with a toothpick.
the crust must be removed, otherwise it will interfere with the access of air

To prevent crusting, tighten the neck of the jar with cling film and prick several holes with a toothpick.
the crust must be removed, otherwise it will interfere with the access of air

Thank you, I did.
I remove the crust, I know that they need to breathe)

Oh, help me please. I made the leaven 4 days ago. Everything is as it should be. It smells like wine. It tastes sour. The consistency is like sour cream.Already 2 times I baked bread from it, nothing rose, it was not baked, and the first time the bread tasted drunk. The first time I took 300 starters and corrected the recipe.
The second time I took 100 g of starting starter culture + 100 flour + 100 water, I put the whole thing in heat, it rose only 30% after 4 hours, then the brake. I mixed the mass, put aside 100g in the refrigerator for the future, and put 200g into action.
200g of starter culture + 300pshmuk + 80g of oil + water drain 120ml + 40g of honey. And a full compartment of raisins.
I put everything on the dietary regime with raisins in HP (I have a Panasonic 51) In short, after 5 hours the smell !!!!! But kind of horror, horror. Didn't get up, didn't bake. One disappointment. Help, what am I doing wrong?

200g of starter culture + 300pshmuk + 80g of oil + water drain 120ml + 40g of honey. And a full compartment of raisins.

There is a lot of oil and the dough is heavy for a young sourdough - that's understandable. But! You have very good honey! He arranged disinfection of your leaven so that not a single bacteria survived. Most likely it was something like this.

A month ago, having read the whole topic from cover to cover, I decided to grow the leaven. She raised rye with the addition of malt, then overfed it into wheat. The wheat one seemed not sour enough and I began to feed it again rye in half with whole grain. The bread is super tasty !!! But then again, sitting down to read topics about leaven, a suspicion crept into my soul, and what kind of bacteria are growing there? I will not poison my family ???

Yes, I remembered, I'm still interested in this moment. I use the leaven that grows in the refrigerator for baking bread. I measure as much as necessary in the dough. I feed the rest of the sourdough and put it back in the refrigerator until the next bread. Am I doing the right thing and can I do it? Or is it still necessary to refresh a little leaven and bake bread from this?

Yes, I remembered, I'm still interested in this moment. I use the sourdough that grows in the refrigerator for baking bread. I measure as much as necessary in the dough. I feed the rest of the sourdough and put it in the refrigerator again until the next bread. Am I doing the right thing and can I do it? Or is it still necessary to refresh a little leaven and bake bread from this?

Forgive me, but of course you are acting wrong. If you take a starter culture from the refrigerator, then first you need to activate it: for example, take 50g. sourdough from the refrigerator, add 25g. water 40C and 25gr. flour, stir thoroughly and leave for 8-12 hours at 26C, the result is 100g. starter cultures of 100% moisture at their peak. Further, proceeding from the recipe for the bread that you are going to bake, we prepare the sourdough, for example, you bake rye bread and you need 210 gr. leaven, you must proceed as follows; take 60g. active starter culture, add
60gr. warm water, stir and add 90g. flour, stir thoroughly and leave for 4-5 hours at 29-30C, and now you can use this leaven.
Better yet, before removing a specific amount of starter culture, activate the starter culture from the refrigerator at least 2 times, but just take into account the proportions of 1 part of the starter culture and 1/2 of water and flour each.

Good luck with your bread.

Hello! Take another teapot. I put wheat sourdough for the first time, it worked out, but I used it wrong. On the fifth day after 20 hours from the last feeding, I put it in the dough. Nothing rose, the bread did not work, I decided that it was just a young leaven, I still had to try. I put it in the refrigerator for 2 days. Then, having shoveled a bunch of information, I realized that I needed to feed it before using it. For the past day, I've been feeding her, trying to revive her. The leaven is alive, just barely bubbles appear, but does not want to grow. In this regard, the questions:

1. Well, I'll transfer all the flour. I want from what is now, to put aside for example 50gr and add 50gr of flour with 50 water (already 150gr). I leave it to come and try to create warmer conditions. When to feed the trail. time? When will it grow and fall? And if it just barely wanders?

2.150 g of the resulting mass how to feed 150 +150 or 50 flour and water as the first time? They just said many times that feeding water and flour should be the same as the mass of the leaven.

3. How to weigh the leaven if there is no scale? Is it possible to navigate with sourdough and water in ml, and with flour in grams in a measuring glass?

4. How many times do you need to feed before mixing? Or how did you get up, you can go straight into business?

5. A friend recommended the following dough recipe: for 600 g of flour, a maximum of 200 g of sourdough, 300 ml of water, 1 hour. l. salt. We knead the dough, immediately into the mold and for proofing for 5-6 hours. Bake at 180g for 45min. Everything works out for her, it didn't work out for me. What can you say about the recipe and technology? My bread came out sour, I didn't like it at home. What's the matter? Lots of leaven? How long did it take? Is the temperature sufficient? Before that, I only baked yeast bread and was always sure that the pace. should be at least 250g for the first 10 minutes, and then at least 220. And I found a lot of recipes where it is generally advised to bake at 150 at once.

Correct my actions, pliz. Sorry if I'm asking repetitive questions for the 20th time. And the feeling that I am like a ram in front of a blank wall. The third night I sit, during the day I think only of leaven. There would be someone nearby to teach how people used to pass it from generation to generation. Yes, none of my acquaintances bothers with bread. And I really want to get away from yeast. Thank you in advance

Oh, and the last question: can you send the dough for proofing to a multicooker for 40g? It does not lower the temperature. Isn't it hot?

[fairmama]

fairmama, welcome to our ranks!
Let's start with the fact that your starter culture is not entirely healthy at the moment. Let's try to improve your health. True, it will be difficult without weights. If possible, try to get the scales all the same. Now there are very inexpensive ones. But for now, we will focus on what we have.
Tell me, where is your leaven now and at what stage? That is, in the refrigerator or at room temperature and how long has it been fed in what quantities?

The leaven has already been at room temperature for a day, although it is cold in the room, but I put it to the radiator. I have already fed 3 times with a break of 8-10 hours. 2 times added to the available volume 100 + 100. Last time I took half an hour ago and also added 100 + 100. Somewhere in equal proportions the last time it worked out. Here I read this method: they took it out of the refrigerator, fed it an hour later, went into the refrigerator, and a day later they took it out and baked it. And what is the point if you send it back into the cold? Will it slow down again?

[airmama]

airmamaif fed an hour ago, leave until morning and be patient. Only remove from the heat. She's best at room temperature right now.
I hope you have a day off tomorrow? From the very morning, take from this only one tablespoon of sourdough and it already has 100 g of flour and water. Will there be an opportunity to watch her? 6 hours at room temperature. I will try to be in touch.
By the way, about the refrigerator for wheat leaven - this is a special leaven and a special refrigerator. For now, the questions of the refrigerator and multicooker are not for your starter culture. OK?

Okay, let's forget about the refrigerator and multicooker for now. I will remove it from the battery, but in the room, no more than 19 degrees. Tomorrow is my MOST working day. At 8 o'clock I will do what you said. I will be at home around 12, I will drop by her place. But then I most likely will not be there until evening. Take a vacation for my leaven If it grows and falls without me, what are my actions?

I went to clean the battery, looked in, and she gurgles)))) LIVE !!!!!

I went to clean the battery, looked in, and she gurgles)))) LIVE !!!!!

Of course alive! Yeast bacteria remained in it - that's for sure. But the bacteria that are needed for their nutrition and reproduction, so we will restore it in a couple of days.
Wheat leaven is a capricious lady. And we need it strong and non-acidic.

At 8 o'clock I will do what you said. I will be at home around 12, I will drop by her place. But then I most likely will not be there until evening.

The temperature is great, don't worry.Will there be an opportunity at 12 to write what is happening to her? Bubbles should appear. Small and small, most likely .... and we will feed her until evening. Hours at 8?

Yes, at 8 I'll be home. I will try to write what my leaven will do. Thank you very much for your responsiveness, that you agreed to help, otherwise I was faced with the fact that they are annoyed to reread a bunch of messages on the forum, they say, everything has already been discussed. And from such a quantity of information, a mess in my head is unimaginable. A cold, it seems, is also a familiar thing to everyone, but nevertheless, when you get sick, you go to the doctor again and again.

I will try to write what my leaven will do.

Just in case, and there are all sorts of cases .... since you will get only 4 hours after feeding, you will need to take a tablespoon again from what happened, but feed it a little differently.
To Art. l. what we are saving (this is not quite a sourdough yet) add 100 ml of water and beat with a regular fork until foam is obtained. Now let's add flour. In a measuring cup, it should be up to the 200 ml mark. this is about 125 g of wheat flour. Stir and cover tightly. If the jar contains no more than half of its volume, then it will have enough air until the evening. But in the evening she should give a little lift. Let's see how much and we will decide thinner - thicker. Will not give rise - also do not be upset. But it's better to get up. 50 percent - that's what you need.
They were already treating overheated and overcooled people, and abandoned people in the refrigerator for a month. Cured a lot. Let's try to cure yours too.

So, I understood correctly, in the morning I take the 1st. l. I feed, leave until 12. Can you pour the rest? At 12 from what there is again 1 st. l. feed, leave, pour out the rest?

I am reporting))) It so happened that I am still at home, now I have fed the leaven. It has bubbles, there are not many of them, and has not grown at all. we will continue to observe.

But it is wildly thick. I put it on like pancakes, but I could hardly move this spoon. The old one is still standing, did not throw it away. There are still small bubbles in it. We don't need it anymore?

But it is wildly thick. I put it on like pancakes, but I could hardly move this spoon. The old one is still standing

You look at this thick by the evening it will be thinner.
And we will wait for her to rise. This is exactly the density at which we will see whether she has enough of everything.
The old one is not needed. This is a type of building material for our starter culture. Already rather construction waste. We will try to translate not all the flour.

I'm telling you about my leaven. She stood with me from 13.00 to 20.30. In a half-liter jar it was 4cm in height. Very few bubbles have grown by 0.5-0.7cm. It became more liquid, but quite a bit. That barely twisted a spoon, and now it looks like pancakes, but very cool. What are my next steps? I stirred it lightly and closed the lid again.

She stood with me from 13.00 to 20.30. The half-liter jar was 4cm in height. Very few bubbles have grown by 0.5-0.7cm. It became more liquid, but quite a bit.

What smells? Options: milk, sour milk (Yogurt - kefir), wine smell, fruit, bread, your option.
While it can stand. She has a supply of food for at least twelve hours. Are the bubbles small or larger than they were?

The smell is rather bready. The bubbles are sooo few and large. Maybe she's cold? Maybe her battery? :-) It seems that it hasn't grown anymore. Top dressing is enough for 12 hours - that means until 1 am. What should I do with her next?

The smell is rather bready. The bubbles are sooo few and large. Maybe she's cold? Maybe her battery? :-) It seems that it hasn't grown anymore. Top dressing is enough for 12 hours - that means until 1 am. What should I do with her next?

Oh how good!
We removed the acid for her. And she even stirred ...
Look what happens: liquid starter is small bubbles, thick - large, very thick - bubbles inside.
Can you guess the amount of flour without the scales? It will be difficult. Yes, and weighed the leaven and not with spoons ...
We will assume that there is at least 20 g of sourdough in a tablespoon.
She should now be given three additional fertilizing so that for each part of the leaven there is one part of flour and one water and it will grow. Between feedings no more than 12 hours at room temperature.
How to store and prepare for baking see this topic
Your starter culture after three such feedings will look very much like a French woman.

I fed the starter culture, we will continue to look. As you said, it is similar to French. Should I feed her - update her like a French one? I just found a comment saying that she lives for 6 months, and I kind of put it on "eternal". What did I get in the end? Is it better to make a new one after 6 months?

There is still a question about the baking temperature in the oven. Before that, I only baked yeast bread and was always sure that the pace. should be at least 250g for the first 10 minutes, and then at least 220. And I found a lot of recipes where it is generally advised to bake at 150 at once. A friend's oven gives a maximum of 180g. Can she make sourdough bread?

A question about the storage of the starter culture.
I will bake every 3-4 days. Probably, in this situation, it is better to store it in the room. But now, okay, it's still cool. And in the summer, when you want to go to the refrigerator yourself, what to do? Will the starter culture deteriorate at a temp. 30g, or even more?

Should I feed her - update her like a French one? I just found a comment saying that she lives for 6 months, and I kind of put it on "eternal". What did I get in the end? Is it better to make a new one after 6 months?

The topic about French sourdough describes the feeding and maintenance schemes for a good wheat sourdough. And 6 months is not a fact, mine lost its aroma in 10 months. Strong, raises dough and bread without flavor. I brought out a new one.
The baking temperature for different breads is different, but if you don't get 220 - 230, you will have to get used to it. Shaped at 180 bakes perfectly.
If you bake every 3-4 days, then you can keep 20-40 g of sourdough and feed. And before baking, already feed so that there is enough for both baking and storage.
And until the summer, let's not make any plans yet. I tried this way and that ... and as a result I bought refrigerators for starter culture

I'm sitting reading, probably it's time to sleep. I understood that correctly, if I can store the starter culture in my refrigerator 8g, but do I still need to feed it once a day?

Oh, I just read that the leaven should be in a dark place. And I have a jar in the light. Can't I succeed again? And another question. We have an argument with a friend. She says there is no need to constantly feed homemade yeast. And I did everything. Do I understand correctly that homemade yeast and sourdough are different? What is this thing and how well does this yeast work? As far as I understand, there is no benefit from them as there is no sourdough? Just raised the dough and that's it?

[fairmama]

fairmama, do not worry, the light does not interfere with the leaven, unless you put it in the sun, of course.
Homemade yeast doesn't really need to be fed. They are prepared immediately in a jar and stored in the refrigerator until full use. About just raised and that's all - it's true. They don't give that flavor .... in short - I didn't like it (I did).
If you want to store it in the refrigerator, you can keep a couple of spoons of the starter there and wake it up before baking, then feed it. I learned this from Anna, her blog describes how to do it right, take a look 🔗
I advise you to try sourdough baked goods that have been kept at room temperature and that made from the starter. After all, it is not at all necessary that you will like what I like.

Good day. Please tell me where the error might be. In the morning I kneaded the sourdough dough according to the recipe, posted on page 15 of this topic, answer No. 289. By the evening, the volume increased 2 times. I put it in a bread maker (Panasonic) for Baking for 1 hour. She took out a brick. The dough fell to a state as it was immediately after kneading. This happened twice. (The first time I baked according to a different recipe. Everything is the same.) Before kneading, I fed some of the leaven from the refrigerator and it stood for 24 hours. It has doubled.The leaven is wonderful, not a single deviation from the "norm" described in the topic. I carried the bucket neatly to the bread machine, never hit it. True, while baking over the stove, my husband played the pipe (he could not find another place), maybe he didn't like it?

Well, my leaven does not want to rise. It smells like bread, the bubbles are large and few, the leaven is thick, stretches for a spoon. I fed the last time an hour. I thought to put the dough in the morning. What is it?

Girls, what a wonderful bread I have! I wanted to take a picture, but my husband has already started eating :-) though the sourdough never rose, it smells like bread, there are very few bubbles. I put it in and added dry yeast 0.5 hour. l. Usually I put 1 tbsp on 600 g of flour. l. He's so raised, so fluffy and incredibly delicious. But my husband said that it is necessary to be less airy, otherwise the sandwich is not convenient to smear. How do I regulate this? And what about my leaven? Doesn't grow at all.