Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Roma hello, I would like to consult with you about MK leaven.
Sometimes, not always, my leaven approaches the peak and does not go down, what can it be? that is, I am waiting for her to start to fall off so that they can start baking bread, and she stands at this high level, I even experimented and left until the morning, the next morning in the same place.

If the leaven is at its peak for 6-8 hours, start kneading the dough

[You]

Adminthanks for the answer, I understood it (I somehow asked you)
But I wonder why?
You have not encountered this, maybe I repeat some kind of mistake from time to time and do not notice?

[Admin]

ABOUT! I have the same problem, it's worth it and doesn't want to go down:
Now a question to Admin about the phrase:
If the leaven is at its peak for 6-8 hours, start kneading the dough
When to start mixing? When did she just get up or when did she get up and stand for 6-8 hours?

The sourdough rises (after feeding) within 6-8 hours - after that there is PIK - the highest degree of raising the sourdough and then it starts to noticeably lower (on the walls of the dishes it is noticeable, its slipping)
Now you can use it.

If the leaven does not drop after the PIKs, then you have the opportunity to use it no later than 6-8 hours - otherwise the leaven begins to sour (not spoil, but sour) and the time for its use has passed, you need to re-feed.
The dough made from such a leaven will be of poor quality.

I specify - 8 hours after feeding (peak) + 8 more hours it can be used

and sorry for stupid questions, pliz

wikki

Hello,

maybe I'm writing a little late, but maybe someone else will come in handy,

I made such a leaven (I boiled sprouted grain - rye, we didn't have barley!; although I don't know why it is necessary to boil it either, maybe it kills mold fungi)
(recipe from a meeting with Zhdanov) - it did not rise for a very long time (perhaps due to the lack of barley), but the smell was sour, then I fed it with flour and water - and, lo and behold, the process went through in two weeks. The first bread was generally a lump - but tasty.
Now I just feed the leaven 1: 1, strong, beautiful.

So there really are simpler options to "give birth" to the leaven

The further I use it, the more I am convinced that the raisin sourdough is one of the simplest and not demanding. And the bread on it turns out wonderful, even if it has stood a little. This is the kind of bread I got today

and cut

[please specify the last two.]

I have a question for the ADVANCED

terms that refer to leavens:

TECHNOLOGY AND BIOCHEMISTRY OF RYE BREAD (1959) SARYCHEV B.G. - https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=2600.0

the sourdough will be the usual sour dough and head (thick dough) and kvass (slightly thinner dough) and dough (liquid dough).

these proportions are given here V. VASILEVICH. BAKERY BUSINESS. 1913 y. - https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option = com_smf & topic = 2482.0

"head" - 100 flour: 70 water
"kvass" - 100: 75
"sour dough" - met in other literature 100: 100
"opara" - in recipes 100: 100

please specify the last two.

And if OPARA is also a leaven, then why are there two and three steps (further from the book ...)?

L. Ya. Auerman (2005) TECHNOLOGY OF BAKERY PRODUCTION. - https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=2602.0


On sourdough, the dough is prepared in two steps (sourdough dough) or in three steps (sourdough, sourdough dough, dough dough). Sourdough dough is prepared in the same way as yeast dough, just instead of yeast, take the entire amount of sourdough according to the recipe.

Thick sourdough (head) for bread from 1 kg of flour
150g of sourdough, 180g of flour (from 1 kg of the total amount), 130g of water. Stir and leave to ferment for 3.5 hours at 29C.
Dough on a thick leaven (head) for bread from 1 kg of flour
460g head, 740g flour, 15g salt, water to get the dough of the desired consistency. Knead the dough and leave to ferment for an hour and a half at 30C. Then cut, shape the bread, let it proof and bake.

Less thick leaven (kvass) for bread from 1 kg of flour
200g sourdough (kvass), 320g flour, 240g water. Stir and leave to ferment for 3 hours at 29C.
Dough with less thick leaven (kvass) for bread from 1 kg of flour
760g of kvass, 560g of flour, 15g of salt, water to obtain dough of the required consistency. Knead the dough and leave to ferment for 50 minutes at 30C. Next, cut into portions, shape the bread, proof and bake.

Here, too, there is an intermediate stage, as in the case of dough.
here the difference is only in the amount of leaven and its density, and the aging time? What is the essence of this difference, how does it affect the finished product?

Can you share your experience, please, how is the different density of sourdough (fresh and strong in any case) displayed on the quality, taste, aroma of dough and bread?

Maybe I'm too wise, but I still want to figure it out

Thank you very much for your attention and answers.

[fresh]

Share your experience, please, how is the different density of sourdough (fresh and strong in any case) displayed on the quality, taste, aroma of dough and bread?

under the word fresh I mean full, happy

I didn't notice the difference.

I've never baked anything, but just a week ago I bought a bread maker
With wheat flour - no problem. Everything is done according to the recipe.
Rye bread was not baked ... More precisely, it smelled very well, it looked beautiful, the crust was tasty, and the pulp was all sticky, unbaked.
I read a lot of different things here, and I understood it with fast yeast without sourdough. According to the old national habit of not really reading instructions (I didn't read about sourdough, only about baking black bread) yesterday I mixed a wild mixture of water, rye flour, this very crumb and a bag with a mixture for bread kvass (for the malt, which we have, well, no where there is also no suspicion that the correct bacteria and yeast are dried there). Now the question ... Can I throw it out and mix it right ?? Or is there a chance to wait for a positive result?
And also my possibly misconceptions because of which the whole point is:
1. Black bread is healthier (or at least not so adds extra pounds).
2. Sourdough for bread and kvass is the same (you can probably add a "sourdough" to this list, your photos and descriptions of the sourdough remind grandmother).
3. For truly black bread, you need only and certainly rye flour, rye malt, water and (or) fermented milk something. Blackening with tea leaves, coffee and everything else, diluting with wheat flour - go on deliberate self-deception.

p.s.
I feel this business is as addictive as fishing

Well, compared to baking, fishing nervously smokes on the balcony

You yourself understood everything about self-deception. In my opinion, bread leaven and leavened leaven are two big differences. It makes sense to tinker and grow your own or find sourdoughs who live in your area on the forum and ask them to share the finished sourdough. The easiest way is to grow raisin sourdough IMHO. Good luck

I looked for a raisin sourdough - I found only grape ...
And then, judging by the recipe, the addition of grapes is not nearly more justifiable than my addition of dry leavened leaven So I will wait for the results of fermentation and feed what is with flour and kefir

[Andjei]

I looked for a raisin sourdough - I found only grape ...
And then, judging by the recipe, the addition of grapes is not nearly more justifiable than my addition of dry leavened leaven So I will wait for the results of fermentation and feed what is with flour and kefir

Andjei, to grow a leaven is ... well, how to raise a child. Since you are new to us, and we accept all newcomers with open arms, do not rush to draw hasty conclusions, read and learn. Good luck!

I looked for a raisin sourdough - I found only grape ...
And then, judging by the recipe, the addition of grapes is not nearly more justifiable than my addition of dry leavened leaven So I will wait for the results of fermentation and feed what is with flour and kefir

Here is a link to the raisin sourdough. Start reading from the post where there are two glasses in the photo
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=17861.0

Thank you! I read everything I need about raisin sourdough. Last time I didn't get to this place. Indeed, judging by the speed at which bubbles appear, the simplest sourdough is necessary for all beginners to highlight the recipe in a separate link.
If the current experiment fails, I will do this. Yesterday after work I smelled this very mass - it smelled like some kind of dried fruit. And although there are not enough bubbles, I think the leaven will eventually come out. By the way, yesterday I read an old book by E. Malakhovets "Recipes for an Frugal Housewife", in it there are still all recipes in pounds and grades. So there it is funny about "liquid yeast" and generally written about bread.
Yeast was then made from dried sourdough. Moreover, they were the same (varied in recipes, strength and vitality) were used for kvass and for beer and bread.
I am beginning to suspect that yeast and leavens change by themselves depending on the nutrient medium. They mutate and by quick selection, those that are more comfortable are displayed. So for wheat, rye and barley, respectively, different subspecies are naturally derived from the wild and are derived.
I was also amused by the way how to understand that it is time to put rye bread in the oven: the last proofing of already formed breads takes place in cold water (as cold as water in the summer in a river) and, in general, when they float up, then into the oven

Hello! Can you please tell me how to multiply the hop sourdough? how much I read I don’t understand. They gave me a ready-made one, there were only three spoons left, but how to feed it? And also tell me the link where to see recipes for bread with hop sourdough to bake in the oven.

Here is information on hop sourdoughs https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=176.0

And here is the recipe for bread on it https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=176.0

Thank you so much for responding!

Here are some more hop sourdough recipes

Hop bread with onions

Wheat bread with cashew nuts and hop sourdough

Hop sourdough bread with orange juice

Chabatta with hop sourdough

Sourdough wheat bread

Rye-wheat bread with hop sourdough

[Why boiling?]

She began to pour the flour with boiling water

Why boiling?

I correctly understood that the leaven is active 8 hours after it rises and bubbles?

It is advisable to use it when it has doubled in volume or began to fall off slightly. (From the moment of the peak and even +8 hours -
will definitely peroxide)
And if more has passed, you need to feed and wait again?
Yes!

I have a rye bread mode in my bread maker, how can I use it? I have a Panasonic255.
It's here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=17974.0

I read about boiling water on the forum. I still do not understand how can I use the "rye bread" mode when making sourdough bread? baked bread using the recipe "wheat-rye bread with hop sourdough". It seemed that there was a mistake in the recipe: there was only 150.0 water. I got not a dough, but a dry mixture of lumps. I had to add water and turn on the pizza mode three times to break the lumps to get a homogeneous dough. And another question: I turned on the baking mode. and it is only 30 minutes, but it takes 1 hour. I had to bake another 30 minutes in the oven! But the bread turned out delicious, though the top was burnt, I'll post the photo as I can.

[Why boiling?]

I still do not understand how can I use the "rye bread" mode when making sourdough bread?
And another question: I turned on the baking mode. and it is only 30 minutes, but it takes 1 hour. I had to bake another 30 minutes in the oven! But the bread turned out delicious, though the top was burnt, I will post the photo as I can.

Bread maker, as I understand it Panas 255 ?? (please indicate this in your profile). I use the "rye" mode for sourdough bread as follows: 1) knead on "dumplings" 2) grease hands with rust.oil, remove the spatula 3) turn on the "rye" mode.

Baking is generally not 30 minutes, the "Timer" button - if poked, adjusts the baking time, you can put up to 1.5 hours.

Why boiling?

Probably talking about custard bread ??

Probably talking about custard bread ??

Is not a fact. As far as I know, Chamomilla holds hop sourdough. Perhaps it meant feeding the hop sourdough with brewed flour. Here I am not an advisor, because I got tired of this brewing after a week and I fed her just water and flour without brewing anything. To be honest, I didn't notice the difference.

Thanks Cubic! Now I put it on the dumplings, climbed to take out the spatula, and at the bottom the flour was not mixed with the dough, I had to turn on the dumplings again. Why is that?

at the bottom, flour is not mixed with the dough, I had to turn on the dumplings again. Why is that?

This happens when kneading rye dough, often flour remains closer to the corners of the bucket, I throw it to the mixer with a spatula during the first batch. This is in case the rye teto is a little liquid. You can make a denser bun - but then the bread will be denser and drier. I still prefer to work with a spatula, but the output is more porous to get the bread (this is a matter of taste).

Cubic! I didn't succeed at all, although I insured myself for 1 hour. l yeast. Maybe after the dumplings it was necessary to let the dough rise? And I immediately turned on rye bread.

Cubic! I didn't succeed at all, although I insured myself for 1 hour. l yeast. Maybe after the dumplings it was necessary to let the dough rise? And I immediately turned on the rye bread.

Very sorry . My dough rises well during this time (I throw in less than 0.5 tsp of yeast), here is my favorite, trouble-free recipe: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=12299.0., loved so much - that they don't want another

But of course it is necessary to look during the rise, if the dough has not risen AT ALL - you need to turn off the oven and give the dough additional time to rise. (I usually always have enough time on the "rye" mode).

Thanks for the Cubic recipe! As soon as I buy malt or kvass wort, I'll try it! My sourdough has been standing in the morning for 13 hours and still has not doubled! Does it make sense to wait further?

Tell me, please .. 2nd time the same problem. I make a sourdough - I feed it every day - for 3-4 days it does not rise as in the pictures to the lid straight, but still bubble, and then the next day and on top there is a crust like this, I shook it, fed it again - but still this crust after some time is formed and the smell is stronger. and no bubbles ((the oven, as I understand it, is useless on this ((what's wrong?

Tell me, please .. 2nd time the same problem. I make a sourdough - I feed it every day - for 3-4 days it does not rise as in the pictures to the lid straight, but still bubble, and then the next day and on top there is a crust like this, I shook it, fed it again - but still this crust after some time is formed and the smell is stronger. and no bubbles ((the oven, as I understand it, is useless on this ((what's wrong?
[/ quote

Have you tried to cover the container with sourdough?

The oven is really useless for now, but

firstly, I would remove the crust and throw it away (it prevents the leaven from "breathing", which is not good and is a breeding ground for "bad" bacteria);
secondly, I would cover the vessel with sourdough with something like a lid with holes or a linen napkin (the crust is most likely obtained from winding);
thirdly, if there are bubbles, even small ones, it means alive;
in the fourth, continue to feed according to the schedule and monitor the temperature at which the leaven lives (maybe it needs a warmer place)

RS And what kind of leaven are you growing?

Thank you! I'll try to really remove the crust, not stir.
Regular sourdough - on rye flour) it is always covered with a napkin. in the first 4 days there was no crust .. but now it is, and because of it there are no bubbles already ((

Hello! For a week I have been baking bread according to the recipe from Kava, wheat-rye with hop sourdough, but I add 300 ml of water, not 150. The bread is good, but the top sinks for some reason. What could be the problem? And another question on storage, should the hop sourdough also be stored at + 10 rad? I have 2 starter cultures, both hop, but different people gave it, 2 200g cans, I bake a day from one can, and I take 4st from the other. l. My sourdough rises by 20%, and if I put it in the heat, then immediately quickly. Is this normal? It should rise twice without heat, but I have only warmth, maybe simple yeast already lives there?

[Chamomilla]

Chamomilla, it can settle just because of the large amount of water, try to reduce it by a little until you get the desired result. Which of my recipes are you baking?

Do you bake your bread in a bread maker or oven? If in the oven, then a softer kolobok is allowed (such a comma that rotates at one of the corners of the bucket). In my photo here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13276.0

And if you bake in HP, then the bun should be unique. At the expense of the leaven - it's hard to say, if it rises only by 20%, in my opinion, not enough And don't you want to try to grow your own?

[I cover the jar with a lid with holes when you take it off ... the smell of glue of some ... moment reminds ... is this normal?]

Kind to all.

I torment all my first successful bread.

I made sourdough from rye flour, it got stronger and became strong.

Then he began to feed her with white flour.
Throw out 50% ... add 50% again once a day + water 25%

The sourdough has become not as active as on rye flour .. apparently white, less capable.

I cover the jar with a lid with holes when you take it off ... the smell of glue of some ... moment reminds ... is this normal?

The second question is about baking bread.

I took the standard recipe for yeast, but added 25% of the starter to the total flour.

The dough turned out like in yeast recipes .. very viscous ...

Should it be the same with leaven? Or should it be made more liquid?

The first bread turned out to be unconditioned ... Not baked ... although the dough was in small bubbles ... like a typical sourdough bread.

Thanks for the help!

Kind and you saleseo.
But there is no need to open Temki for each question. We have enough topics about this. To begin with, what kind of leaven did you grow? If you feed with white flour, then it will grow more slowly, this is the property of flour. More precisely, write down the proportions of feeding, how much leaven was taken, how much water-flour, otherwise I got confused with the percentages.
If sourdough was added, was the flour-water ratio in the recipe recalculated? Where was the bread baked, in the HP or in the oven? For oven bread, the dough is thinner, for CP, you need to achieve a bun.
I will move your question later to the topic "Starter cultures-questions and answers".

Raised like this:

Day 1: Half a glass of rye flour, half a glass of water
Day 2: Added a quarter of rye and a quarter of water ...

In general, the leaven has grown stronger .... even overflowed.

Feeding became white flour like this:

There is 100% sourdough.
Once a day he poured 50% of it, then added 50% of white flour and 25% of water ...
And so every day.
The sourdough rose a little, soaked all over with bubbles.

There is more flour in relation to water, you get it in a thick form, so it grows longer.

Is there more water in relation to flour?

If there is more flour ... then it will completely dry up ...

No, there should be no more water, let's go in grams, huh? but now we will completely confuse each other So, if you have, for example, 50 g of sourdough, you take either 50 g and 50 g of water - flour or 25 g-25 g, dough, that is, top dressing, there should be no less yeast.

Such a leaven 🔗

The question is more concerned with baking in a bread maker.
Dough densities and differences in yeast recipes ...)
The leaven seems to be fermenting ...
The bread is a little sour, should it be?

[I cover the jar with a lid with holes when you take it off ... the smell of glue of some ... moment reminds ... is this normal?]

I cover the jar with a lid with holes when you take it off ... the smell of glue of some ... moment reminds ... is this normal?

As a rule, according to my observations and cultivation, the sourdough in the feeding stage smells like rotten hay.
Ready sourdough, ripe, has a sour taste (on the tongue) and the smell of a fresh sour apple

As a rule, according to my observations and cultivation, the sourdough in the feeding stage smells like rotten hay.
Ready sourdough, ripe, has a sour taste (on the tongue) and the smell of a fresh sour apple

And the dough when baking ???
What is the density.
I bake in the Mulinex 3000W Bread Maker on the French bread program.

And the leaven is not nashenskaya, in theory there and it is necessary to ask where the recipe was taken.
If you bake in HP, then you have to achieve a kolobok. If you add a sourdough, for example 200gr, then you need to look at the ratio of the feeding, and subtract the corresponding amount of flour-water from the total amount of flour-water.
Bread will not be sour if you take ripe, not fallen sourdough.
Take a look at this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0

Is it really possible to bake bread in a bread machine?

I'm ready to take your recipe ... but I did not find the exact data ... as there.
Everything floats strongly in opinions

Of course it's real !!! And they bake rye and white. Keep your chin up! What is not clear in the recipe? can ask a question right there in the subject. What precise data do you need?

Probably a link to the sourdough from the forum ... where everything happens with flour .. like eternal probably.
No frills)

Here, read, choose. I have a French sourdough, very satisfied.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=30.0