Starter cultures - in questions and answers

I ask for help !!! I read, read and read many more times ... There is a mess in my head. But I could not find an answer to the question of whether there are options for disposable starter cultures, that is, a starter culture that will be fully used when baking rye bread. I don’t want to constantly feed the starter culture that I’ll use, perhaps once a month or more, or I’ll want to use it twice in a row, and then I don’t need it for half a year.
The recipe for rye bread without sourdough (as in the store) I have not picked up for myself. Delicious, not bad bread, but somewhere ... not right. Now I want to try recipes for rye bread with sourdough. But since in our family only I eat rye bread, and with my size, it is desirable the less it is, the better, so I am looking for those options in which it is not necessary to throw out the remaining unnecessary sourdough.
Please poke me with a link if this question has already been asked, or tell me the answer to my question:
How do I make a sourdough that I can put in whole rye bread?
Thank you.

I'm watching the topic is not active at all. But still I will ask in the hope of an answer. Recently, bread on "eternal" sourdough has become sour. Even if I take only 10 grams of it for a loaf of about 800 grams. I baked a French roll, the first time I got an amazingly tasty bread, the second sour, the third even more sour.

Where and how did they get it? How were you fed before being sent to bread? What is the scheme? If you took 10g of sourdough, how much did the bread rise?

How do I make a sourdough that I can put in whole rye bread?

well .. this is already extreme.
But a simple sourdough can be prepared several times.

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=42973.0 Semi-finished rye sourdough or
Sourdough "The Simplest"

[OlgaGera]

But a simple sourdough can be prepared several times.

# Semi-finished rye sourdough or
Sourdough "The Simplest"

OlgaGera, left to read. Thank you very much for the links and the speed of response.

[Lyi]

Lyi,

Weird question. I don't really understand the meaning of it yet. If you do not feed any sourdough, but simply stuff it into the bread after the end of cultivation, you will get a disposable one). What is the problem? But any sourdough will first have to grow for a week. There is no other way to get the leaven. It makes sense? A week to grow, throw away the flour to bake one loaf, and so on every time. Grow the leaven, dry in portions and take as needed. Feed in several cycles, increasing its volume to the required amount and all into bread. If you want bread again - get dried and again. At least not a week every time and no flour thrown away. It is kept dry for a year.

Or Zekowa. She has been in the refrigerator for 4 months. quite worth it.

[OlgaGera]

How good it is at KP. All seemingly unsolvable issues will ultimately turn out to be very easy thanks to the prompts of the residents of KP.
So thanks OlgaGera, I got that starter recipe, in which, as I wanted, I can grow exactly the amount of starter I need. At the same time, without throwing away the remaining leaven. That is, using the recipe for "The Simplest Sourdough"

Sourdough "The Simplest" (Marysia27)

I will not grow 512 g of starter, but 210 g (for example), which I need for this particular recipe, reducing the amount of the original ingredients. For some reason, this recipe passed me by. And with other recipes, for example, "Eternal" it would be difficult to do. True, it will take an extra 3 days here.
Thank you,Scarecrow, suggested a method for drying the starter culture, which I did not take into account. Now I can completely cook any of the starter cultures, and I will dry or freeze the remaining amount.When I was reading Admin's advice on drying sourdough, I came across her recommendations for freezing sourdough.
Now it remains only to calculate how much leaven I need according to the recipe for one portion and freeze it, laying out the required volume at once.
Thank you,OlgaGera, Scarecrow, and even more thanks Adminwhich described all these points.
Although I am a longtime resident of KP, sometimes you pass by without memorizing some recipes.

[Katilapa]

Katilapa, for me, too, it comes out differently with sourdough, if you are not an opponent to add a little yeast, then reduce the proving time on a very sour sourdough with them. This is hardly correct, but I do it.
Lyi, I like rye sourdough in rye bread, not wheat. I would choose the drying option in your case.

I will grow not 512 g of sourdough, but 210 g

when growing a leaven, I would not decrease or increase anything.
With some experience, to start the process, you need a kind of critical mass. It didn't work otherwise. If you want a normal sourdough, then grow according to the rule, and there you will take more / less for bread.
At least a liter or more can be grown from a teaspoon when feeding. But the initial stage is very important.

[teara]

I like rye sourdough in rye bread

teara, thanks, I will. Although for the ease of preparation I really liked the "Most Simple" sourdough, this one

Sourdough "The Simplest" (Marysia27)

but it is wheat.
So I'll try to start with the master rye sourdough from Admin, this one "Eternal" leaven # 3

when growing a leaven, I would not decrease or increase anything.

OlgaGera, Thank you. Agree with you. You will have to make the leaven without changing the proportions, and then dry the remaining residue. Although the thought flashes to cook a huge loaf at once, using all the leaven. But will it be baked? I'll think.

[Lyi]

Lyi, rye sourdough as a good wine, requires long aging. And just like wine can easily go bad in bad conditions. You need to grow a great sourdough, slow, and then either contain it or dry it.
I don't know with wheat, I had no business. It seems that you can have fast and good ones, but they are used for wheat bread.

[teara]

can easily deteriorate in poor conditions

teara, which is why keeping the leaven confuses me. Summer, heat, refrigerators are full, although I have 5 of them (though 2 old ones, I use only for vegetables and fruits and rolled up cans), but there is absolutely no place. To reach something deep in the distance, you have to pull out the products that are nearby. I am afraid that these changes may lead to deterioration of the leaven.
Admin rye masterbatch takes 3 days to cook, which is tolerable. And what sourdough for rye bread do you use?

rye sourdough, like a good wine, requires long aging.

the older the better. One-time growing a sourdough like that ... I don't even know. The sourdough needs to mature, to get stronger. Then it will work well.
Admin also has a non-stained leaven. Kefirnaya.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1068.0

but there is absolutely no place

Oh, there is no room even for a small jar, or for a glass? She will stand. Take it out every three days, bake it, feed it, leave it.

what sourdough for rye bread do you use

Semi-Fairycat from Viki. But it has already turned into eternal.

for the same reason, I prefer to buy a little live sourdough on Avito or order a healthy dry one on the website, such as the same Levito that is withdrawn from a month, and quickly restore it (delivery there is cheaper for me than in other stores). I liked the bakenzyme very much, but it ended six months ago.
and my personal opinion is that in three days the rye sourdough is still young, it is not even a month long. In my experience, when I bought the "everlasting rye" ripe, it was much stronger and more flavorful than my own young ones.For various reasons, for a long time I do not lead the leaven correctly, my own cultures do not survive to a very mature state, but they have time to deteriorate at once.
If you bake non-pure rye breads, mixed, then the difference is not very felt, and if whole grain rye, for example, completely, then ripe is better. A good leaven, this aroma and taste will not come off.
You can buy an excellent one from someone in town with good bread and dry it for yourself.

Take it out every three days, bake it, feed it, leave it.

One roll is enough for me for 3-4 weeks (I store the finished bread in the freezer, I take out the piece I need). Imagine, in a month I need to feed her as much as 10 times and where to put her so much? Therefore, the kefir starter culture from Admin is too big for me due to the numerous dressings. I will dry and look for various options. All the same, after all, you want to eat a small piece of delicious bread. And I want pure rye bread, without further use of yeast.

order on the website healthy dry and quickly restore

Take this one?

🔗

How to use it later?

You can buy an excellent one from someone in town with good bread and dry it for yourself.

Alas, this is unrealistic for us.

Semi-Fairycat from Vik

Semi-Fairycat from Viki. But it has already turned into eternal.

I'll try to start with her.

[Katilapa]

Where and how did they get it? How were you fed before being sent to bread? What is the scheme? If you took 10g of sourdough, how much did the bread rise?

I took the sourdough from the refrigerator, 10g of sourdough, 100g of water, 100g of wheat flour costs the night, then I knead the dough. Dough, 500g wheat flour, 290g water, salt, sugar, oil. I kneaded the dough, the cake costs an hour at room temperature, I fold it in an envelope every hour. Then in the refrigerator for 12-15 hours and bake. Here, according to this recipe, from the first time, such an incredible taste turned out that until they had eaten everything, they did not stop. Then with each loaf, the bread became more and more sour and sour.

I am thinking that the leaven from the refrigerator is no longer as fresh as the one that lives at room temperature and is fed every day. I put the dough on the lighted sourdough today. I'll see the day after tomorrow morning what happens

Katilapa, for me, too, it comes out differently with sourdough, if you are not an opponent to add a little yeast, then reduce the proving time on a very sour sourdough with them. This is hardly correct, but I do it.
Lyi, I like rye sourdough in rye bread, not wheat. I would choose the drying option in your case.

I am not an opponent of yeast) but when friends ask for bread and I say that it is yeast-free, I want it to be true)

[Katilapa]

Katilapa, sourdough bread, by definition, cannot be yeast-free. The sourdough contains just yeast.

[Anna]

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=389522.0 So that it is not sour



Anna, now fashionably yeast-free))))

[Lelka]

Lelka, I know about fashion. But every time it just jerks me.

every time I twist straight

similarly)))

[Lyi]

usually mean "no industrial yeast", but I'm used to it.
An excellent leaven is the seventh wonder of the world and you have to be able to grow it and not ruin it, I can't do that, so it's not for me to teach anyone. My personal starters are mediocre.
Lyi, not ah. The one that you indicated, I did not take. There is no way to restore it and I thought it was just an improver, like our agram. Maybe worth a try, but I didn't buy.
I took a Levite from them, San Francisco (very interesting). Their live rye is also normal, but it is difficult to recover, that is, then only if it is dried. Over time, the leaven changes, but I still like how the purchased one changes more than my own.
But is there really no bakery in the city? Can't a jar from a nearby town be ordered by a transport company for a very mature rye sourdough? Zdoroveevo has no "eternal rye". They are slightly different and more commercial, that is, they change quickly.
If there is no time for at least a month every day to take good care of the leaven, then it is better to buy a good one once and dry it.
Here is a bacon enzyme - very, very much. Easy to store. But most of all.






Lyi, leaven is always not easy and not fast, if it is not fed at hand. Either they brought it out and feed it alive, or dried it up, but then it took more than one day to restore. Only when you buy a single portion of live fattened sourdough from a person who is constantly leading sourdoughs, you can have them comfortably without personal worries.

But is there really no bakery in the city? Can't a jar from a nearby town be ordered by a transport company for a very mature rye sourdough? Zdoroveevo has no "eternal rye". They are a little different.
If there is no time for at least a month every day to take good care of the leaven, then it is better to buy a good one once and dry it.

There are more than one bakery. But I doubt very much that anyone will sell me the leaven. There was once a case that we suddenly lost rye flour and I went to one of the bakeries with a request to sell me at least 1 kg of rye flour. They just looked at me very bewilderedly and did not even deign to give a detailed answer, categorically answering NO.
Therefore, I can only buy in online stores.

I took a Levite from them, San Francisco (very interesting). Their live rye is also normal, but it is difficult to recover, that is, then only if it is dried.

These are these?

🔗
🔗

So if you come across some good starters somewhere, drop the link, please.

[Lyi]

Lyi, I will say so. Economics aside, commercial leavens make life a lot easier. The same Levite has to be taken out for a month, and then it's done. But the girls have kept the domestic Levite for years, and the purchased one is all just at the beginning, and then sharply "becomes ordinary". But if you pamper yourself, then it's okay to buy, restore, multiply, dry some of it, bake the rest.
Levita is good for wheat. I fed San Francisco on rye flour and used it for rye baking.

[Lyi]

Lyi, if the leaven is needed only for rye, then I would keep it in the refrigerator. Now, when leaving on vacation, I feed the leaven, keep it on the table for an hour and in the refrigerator for two weeks. Upon arrival, I warm it up, take a straight drop, 4-5g, from the middle and feed it with 1/2 teaspoon of honey. The leaven comes to life. Then I feed most of it for bread, the rest I feed as standard and after an hour in the refrigerator for three days. My standard feeding is the leftover sourdough in a jar (10-15g), I feed 30g of water + 30g of flour. All. This is quite enough. That is, I do not keep 200g of sourdough in constant mode. And before leaving, I also have a little more than 60 g of sourdough. Before baking, if it has been in the refrigerator for three days, then I just feed it to the right amount. In fact, I put this dough. That is, I take 45-50g of starter culture, warmed up after the refrigerator, and feed up to 287g, which I need according to the recipe. This leaven costs me about 6-8 hours (I feed it before bed, bake it in the morning). And in a jar again 30g of water, stirred and flour 30g there and also stirred. An hour on the table and in the refrigerator.
But before entering such a regime, I would advise you to first feed her every three days, regardless of baking, at least for a month, so that the leaven will get stronger.

Hello everyone, dear bakers!
Not so long ago I got carried away by a very interesting topic, "living bread". Having learned that rye bread is the healthiest one, he started looking for whole-grain flour. I did not find it in my and the nearest cities and ordered it on the Internet. I did not particularly study the topic on YouTube, I found out that you need to remove the leaven. Brought out, it seems everything is fine, the first bread was baked well.
But further, due to the lack of literacy in handling zakaaska, he continued to feed her once a day. I store it in a nightstand, temperature 24-30 °. And now a lot of it has gathered. And I don't feel that something is wrong with her, because when I feed her she does not rise in volume, but bubbles perfectly. And after reading several topics on your wonderful forum, I realized that baking bread is not correct.I just took this leaven (I have it in a 2 liter jar) according to a recipe for example 2 glasses. The dough was not very suitable, but it let the bubbles, but the dough in the molds fit 2 times. But the bread turned out to be sticky inside. My question is, is it possible to somehow revive or rejuvenate the leaven?
I want to attach a photo, I don’t know how ..

commercial starters make life a lot easier.

Maybe. But they don't deliver to my wilderness. And I cannot buy from someone. Too squeamish. In my head doubts begin to swarm.
I only bring out mine.
And your purchased starter cultures changed because of a different atmosphere, with different ingredients. All starter cultures are individual)))

is it possible to somehow revive or rejuvenate the leaven?

See the post above.
The starter needs 5 - 15 gr. Here we feed and store it. From it we can already grow a ton))))

Hello, you are hatching your first sourdough, wheat, it is the fifth day, it smells like apples. Today I gave food in the morning, five hours later, I decided to look, and she went through the top of a liter can ... I had to put aside two hundred grams in a hurry, put 100 water and the same amount of flour, I had to run to work. Did I do it right? Then you can work with it as with a strong leaven?

Store in a nightstand, temperature 24-30 °

she's too hot

And now a lot of it has gathered.

Sadly, throw it away. Scrape off the remnants from the walls, pour about the same amount of water and flour. Stir. An hour on the table, then into the refrigerator.

[VadKa]

VadKa, the jar should be 3-4 times more in volume than the volume of the starter culture. So that there are no shoots And so - yes, switch to your mode of feeding and storing the starter culture. The part that you leave for long-term storage until the next baking does not have to be fed in a 1: 1: 1 ratio. You can and better take less sourdough than flour and water. Then the yeast and lactic acid bacteria will have enough food for a longer period.

Did I do it right?

Correct, but a lot.)))
Reduce, according to your needs, feeding.
Proportions 1/1/1. This will be 100% humidity.

Figured out how to upload a photo.
Starter culture number 1 (Rye)


Sourdough number 2 (wheat)


That's how much leaven has gathered. I don't want to throw it out, I will use it for cosmetic purposes, and the pancakes are very tasty.
By the way, leaven number 2 was obtained as an experiment. From rye bread, which has a sticky crumb inside, wheat, very tasty smelling sourdough came out. I filled this crumb with water and closed the jar with a lid. A couple of days later, when she fermented, I started feeding her with wheat flour and everything seems to work. It smells sweet. I tried to bake pancakes with pear, I came out very tasty)
So is this what I need for bread?
I understand that part of the leaven needs to be taken away and then fed?
To whom it is not difficult to describe the whole process, as they say from A to Z.

And I thought in the future that we should take, for example, 200gr, and return the same amount ... Will it disappear in the refrigerator until tomorrow if I have it 2/1/1? in 9 hours I will come at night, can I do something with it, or not touch it for a day?

Will it disappear in the fridge until tomorrow

no.

I have it 2/1/1

then it would be better 0.5 / 1/1
0.5 is your starter.

As a result, I want to take 200g of sourdough for bread, 1-3 times a week, how should I feed it? There is a lot of information on the forum, my head is boiling :(

200g sourdough for bread

It's leaven! Ready for bread
To get 200 g of sourdough we take 60 g of starter + 70 g of water + 70 flour
or 40/80/80.
Something like this

how should I feed her?

algorithm
Sourdoughs - in questions and answers # 2072

Wow, thanks! There are many advisers ... but this one is the best and not exchangeable, so I will stage an opera from about 30g of sourdough, feed it to 200g, leave it in non-refrigerators overnight :)

30gr

and get sour.
Gentlemen, at least skim the previous page with your eyes, and look into the links. Everything is described on the previous page. I will not copy

[Katilapa]

Katilapa,
Refrigerated storage - I assume acetic acid has accumulated. Not lactic acid (mkb love heat), but vinegar. We must get rid of it. 10 grams per 100 and 100 is an error. While the yeast from 10g of sourdough will absorb such a volume of flour, the ICD also have time to actively grow and accumulate acids.

To begin with, try feeding it several times to the peak, without waiting for the fall. Volume - equal amount of sourdough and flour for feeding. This will refresh / rejuvenate her. Then you can read about the baking technology that Olya gave via the link. And then write for a long time)).

You can also try to take your ripe fruit / berry (not a store one), roll it in flour, which will then go for feeding, let it sit for several hours (do not press, juice is not needed, you need wild yeast living on their surface). Feed the sourdough with this flour. This is a wild yeast addition to your sourdough starter. If the concentration of DD increases, they will overtake the ICD in their growth. That is, the bread will have time to rise, but the acid will not accumulate.

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, thanks for the quick answers, I found everything, I hope that I understood everything correctly, that everything will work out :)

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, thanks for the answer and advice) I have already thrown the leaven out of the refrigerator. I took 20g and feed it 1: 1: 1, but today it will turn out the second time. I'd rather keep a little at room temperature and eat delicious bread than regret throwing away the excess, keeping it in the refrigerator and eating sour.

Once again, hello, I read everything I read, I do even I do ... here I have a wheat leaven, which is 7 days old. According to the recipe, I need 200g. I take about 10/20/20, put it in a dark place of sufficient temperature for a day, then put the dough out of it, that is, 50/75/75 for 6-8 hours at room temperature. And can you bake bread from it already?

And can you bake bread from it already?

need to!

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, yes, it will be more correct :)



Just after watching YouTube, and how are women from a liter jar, scooping up the leaven, while saying that you need to return as much to the jar as they took ... so they take it straight from the refrigerator ... confusion occurs after the forum :)



Sorry to be so annoying that I put 10/20/20 at room temperature in the morning for the opera tomorrow morning. I fed the rest 20/40/40, I don't want to put it in the refrigerator. How not to feed her? I am at home in the morning and in the evening. Or is it better in the refrigerator then? Then feed her 1/1/1?

Thank you very much for the advice, wheat flour and with the addition of rye flour, it turned out great in HP! I don't know how to insert a photo from a phone ...

But I'm still waiting for an answer, to the previous question

[VadKa]

Sourdoughs - in questions and answers # 2072
VadKa, Anna has 10-15 g - a starter, a constant amount of her live sourdough, which must be kept and fed. Anna keeps the sourdough in the refrigerator and feeds it once every three days: "My standard feeding is the leftover sourdough in a jar (10-15g), I feed it with 30g of water + 30g of flour. That's all. This is enough." 1: 2: 2, and if 1: 3: 3 then the power supply will last even longer.
I pulled it out, took 60g for breeding for baking, and fed the remainder of 10-15 g, kept it warm a little ("I keep it on the table for an hour") to wake up, and then put it back in the refrigerator for three days.
If Anna decided to keep the starter on the table, she would have to feed more often, because in the warmth the leavens come to life, they ask to eat more often. On the table, you need to observe how it grows to the peak - it means it's time to feed again, there are very active leavens, they rise as much as possible three times a day and ask for food, so the leavens are sent in the refrigerator, so it's easier to preserve and take care of.
The proportions 1: 2: 2, or 1: 3: 3 are enough for Anna for three days in the refrigerator. You want to feed more often, once a day. The food can be reduced: 1: 1: 1, but this is for the refrigerator. The longer you do not feed, the larger the portion in reserve and vice versa. Typically, the recipe teaches how to feed properly and how to track the health of the starter.

[VadKa]

VadKa, you need to look at the leaven. When stored warm, feed at least 2 times a day. Ie.Throw away the excess, leave 20g and feed her 40/40 flour / water. Well, or to attach the surplus somewhere. But it is possible that the sourdough will need 3 times - it will depend on the temperature. You can look for a cooler place - on the windows or somewhere else. In general, the optimum temperature is about 17-18 degrees.

Got it. It's just that I still have two "parts" of the sourdough, one in the closet, the other in the refrigerator, I'm reinsuring for now :) which is in the closet, I feed it only in the morning, it smells like an apple, well, it's probably because she is still young, and she only needs one meal? I think that soon I will understand everything, and there will be one in the fridge

[VadKa]

VadKa,

No, any feed 2 times at least at room temperature.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, it's just wonderful bread ...

[VadKa]

VadKa,

This is the main thing. In sourdoughs, a lot of flair. It's just that I would oxydate 100% in a day and not only "would", but also oxyderate when I forgot to feed)). I have 23 degrees in the kitchen. In the heat - more. With this temperature regime and feeding in proportion - the remains of the leaven (15-20 grams) per 100 g of fresh flour in 24 hours completely ferments and falls off, accumulating acidity.

If you have no complaints about the taste parameters - what else do you need? The accumulated acidity will not harm rye at all.

I can't understand from the leaven in the refrigerator: whether to feed or not. It freezes there and does not grow for a long time. So understand, wants to eat or not. I don't know if it's right or not, but I take it out, leave it warm, and when it grows to its peak in the heat, then I feed it. Or according to the manual, if purchased.
Girls, how do you determine by the cold sourdough that it is hungry?