Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Comrades bakers, help!
How do you know when the leaven is ready and can be used? It smells pleasantly sour, but it does not rise only slightly bubbles are covered.

Ira, your sourdough, when ready, should actively rise, in the thickness it is loose, permeated with gas bubbles. Throw away some of it and feed it with a fresh portion of flour and fermented milk product. I fed mine with milk whey, it worked out very well.
Good luck!

I'm not an expert, but from what I've seen myself, I can tell you that my leaven needs to be left alone for quite some time before it rises on its own.

How many hours ago did you last interfere with her? Also, when you stir, is the leaven inside you all bubbles?

I fed her every day. Inside it is bubbles, but not much. On the weekend she left for 2 days (left), then fed her, but she is also not active.

Ira, your sourdough, when ready, should actively rise, in the thickness it is loose, permeated with gas bubbles. Throw away some of it and feed it with a fresh portion of flour and fermented milk product. I fed mine with milk whey, it worked out very well.
Good luck!

I already took part and continued to feed. How many times do you need to do this procedure with the removal of a part from it for it to finally become active? Honestly, I already lost hope of growing something worthwhile

Ira, how does your starter culture react to liquid? When I poured the whey, the leaven immediately began to bubble, that is, this is how it reacted with hunger (sorry). she lived with me in autumn and winter, fed me once a day, or even less often, when the leaven was ripe.
Do this. Leave 2-3 tablespoons of sourdough, add whey or sour kefir 100 grams and rye flour until thick sour cream. Mark the top with a marker and keep warm. Watch how it grows, how many hours it will take to double in volume if it does. Good? Then we will continue.

It seems to react calmly to liquid.
Okay, I'll put aside a couple of spoons and start feeding again. But one problem ... it will not work very well to observe, because the whole day at work (do not drag her with you). Maybe it rises a little during the day, but I don't see it. I come home from work, the leaven is on the same mark.

No, they should rise up and not change their mind on this topic. I leave for work in the same way and return in ten hours - in the morning everything is smooth and beautiful, and by the evening at least a centimeter or two it rises (I have a wide saucepan) and all bubbles inside.

Ira, feed in the evening, look in the morning. And in any case, a trace of the dough will remain on the dishes. Try to pamper her with half a teaspoon honey. Everything will be fine!

Many thanks to everyone for their support. I will continue to look after her, maybe she will answer me well

[himichka]

Good morning.
himichka, reporting on my observations of the leaven
Last night, before feeding, she was covered in bubbles. As advised, I took a couple of tablespoons from her and fed her. Bubbles were observed again this morning and, in my opinion, the cap was slightly swollen, but quite a bit. How many more days should I feed her? And how do you know that you can already bake something with it, this is when it begins to actively grow?

Good morning Ira!

Continue feeding in the same mode for a couple of days, i.e. a little sourdough, add flour no less than there is in the sourdough, fermented milk until thick sour cream. It will grow approximately twice, no more. Will grow up, will not go anywhere.

I have a lot of leaven now, I throw away some, because.I feed it twice a day because of the heat. At least send it to everyone.

I am the very first in the ranks of those who wish
Thank you for not quitting in difficult times

[himichka]

URAAAAA !!!!!!!!!! And there is a holiday on my street, or rather in my bank
Yesterday I fed my sourdough and this morning it went up 2 times, all in bubbles, just lovely!
himichka, tell me, how many hours should pass after 3 feeding of the starter culture and before its application? It seems that somewhere here they said that about 9 hours. And also, you can write or give a reference to an already proven recipe for rye bread, so that my efforts are not in vain.
Thank you in advance

Well, everything worked out, it could not be otherwise. Congratulations, Ira!

The leaven is ready to use at its peak, i.e. when it has doubled in size. She is said to be the most active at this time.

About dressings. For a long time I tried to understand the "feeding", somehow it came to me tightly. Now, having ten months of experience and three grown sourdoughs in the "history", I can say that if you bake every day, then you need to feed small portions every day, especially now, when it is hot. If you rarely bake, then a day before baking you need to feed a small portion of the sourdough three times, so that in the end you get the right amount of it and still have it for the future.
I don’t bake pure rye bread, look in this thread. Bread Admin, Misha, Kava. What else I want to say: I always add 5-7g of fresh yeast to the dough, this shortens the proofing time of the bread.
Good luck!

Thanks for the compliments. I myself can not get enough of
In the evening I will look at the behavior of the leaven and maybe even today I will try to bake something

[ira_lioness]

ira_lioness, accept my congratulations too! I followed your experiments with leaven closely. I knew from the very beginning that you would succeed. I thought to myself, such a persistent girl should succeed. I could not help with advice, since I had grown a couple of more or less successful starters for a long time. Happy for you!

[Elenka69]

Elenka69 Oh thanks!!!!
Yes, I had to suffer a little with her, but now I began to understand her a little better
Now we have to bake bread and hope that it will work out. Well, if the first pancake is lumpy, then nothing. Negative result, also result

And also, it seemed to me that kefir sour faster if you add a spoonful of "Aactivia" there (naturally without additives). And I added a teaspoon to the sourdough, maybe that's why I started to crawl .... or maybe it just coincided.

A question for experts. I decided to try to make kefir sourdough. Since the kefir was not at home, I took organic yogurt and diluted it a little with milk, left it on the table to sour. On the 3rd day it looked a little like it was starting to turn sour, by this time kefir had already appeared at home, I added a little kefir to speed up the souring process. On day 4, the consistency of the mass almost did not change, but it tasted very sour, and red specks appeared on the walls of the jar (like small kefir lumps). It seemed strange to me, maybe you should just throw out this yogurt-kefir-milk mixture?

Also thanks for the cold cottage cheese recipe. I took 1% org. yogurt, it turned out to be a very tasty creamy curd mass. And the whey from this cottage cheese was added to the rye sourdough (only 1 tbsp. L.), Which she had prepared before and after a few dressings it did not foam for a long time, but here, after 2 hours in the warmth, it froth well and began to smell like an apple. Finally, the right sourdough is made!

Throw away those with red spots for sure!

Throw away those with red spots for sure!

Summer resident, thanks for the answer!

good afternoon, for some reason, my leaven lives only once. fermented for 5 days then baked bread the rest of the leaven in the refrigerator the bread was successful. after 4 days I took out the leaven, fed it, it did not come to life, waited until the mixture was covered with a crust. I had to stir up a new one again for 4 days and all over again for 3 times already and the same story after feeding the sourdough does not rise even for a week on the refrigerator (here I have the warmest place, rather winter and central heating). Dear bakers, what am I doing wrong ??? do not really want every time you want to bake to cook for a week. I tried it on water, kefir, and right now on homemade yogurt.

Having selected part of the leaven for bread, I feed the rest and only after it increases in volume, or at least after 3 hours I put it in the refrigerator on the warmest shelf.To feed every 4 days in my opinion is too rare.

[gerodot]

good afternoon, for some reason, my leaven lives only once. fermented for 5 days not really want every time you want to bake cook for a week. I tried it on water, kefir, and right now on homemade yogurt.

gerodot , I answered here about feeding the sourdough:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

Good evening! Help me please. Yesterday I set kefir to ferment for kefir sourdough. It bubbled up and water flaked off. What to do with the mass that has exfoliated, throw it away or mix it together with the liquid below?

It depends on why, the grandmother always stirred, and the mother drained the liquid and removed the top with the bubbles, then added it to the dough.

Stir for sourdough.

Thank you so much

[Admin]

Admin, firstly, thank you for the science - I have successfully grown MK rye sourdough and have already baked white wheat bread on it (I exhibited a photo in the subject). The unused starter culture is now in the refrigerator (second day). There were some questions.
1. Please tell me how I can use it in recipes for yeast bread (how to determine what proportion of yeast I can replace with sourdough).
2. There are many recipes using other leavens (for example, Italian bread with French leaven). Can I use MK starter in such recipes? If so, how to determine its quantity.
3. Is it possible to plan the degree of sourness in bread: does it depend on the strength of the sourdough, the degree of its rise after refreshing (knead the dough immediately at the peak, before or after it), the duration of the proofing of the dough or something else (with the same quantity in the recipe).
Thank you.

[zalina74]

zalina74, Thanks for the kind words

I can answer your questions as follows:

Sourdough (any!) Is a field for you, your imagination!
Pay attention to the recipe of sourdough bread - who uses the sourdough and how and in what quantity - continuous experiments
It's another matter - what kind of taste it turns out, only you yourself determine it.

Conventionally, in practice, it is customary to lay 40% of the sourdough by weight of all flour, and a little yeast 0.5-1 tsp - for confidence and safety net.
But this is conditional - you will have to select the exact amount yourself.
It all depends on the quality, type, aging of the leaven and other things.

MK sourdough can be used with success everywhere - again, everything depends on the result and how much it will please you.

The sourness can be planned with the amount of sourdough, or let's say such an option as adding 0.5 tsp of soda to the dough when kneading to remove the acid, but the strength of the sourdough (yeast) remains.

You can safely work with sourdough in different versions - but the result is achieved through experimentation and the selection of your own taste of bread.

Success

[Admin]

Admin, thanks for the answer! I assumed so roughly, but did not know what to push off from. I thought about soda that it is impossible, but indeed, the acidity can be reduced if desired (the high acidity of bread is not suitable for everyone), and the dough with it should be even more airy. Now I will experiment.
By the way, yesterday I put a dough for kefir pancakes on rolled oats for the night. But instead of kefir I had drinking yoghurt a week ago. It is clear that it has not soured in the refrigerator during this time. I thought that it would hardly turn sour overnight, so I added two tablespoons of MK starter culture and a little flour to the cereal and yogurt mixture. As a result, in the morning the dough was bubbly and the pancakes on it turned out to be airy and elastic!

[Admin]

In the next (3rd) time I fed the leaven. But she didn’t want to get up (as had happened to her before, though not very much). I thought it was cool in the kitchen and put it closer to the radiator at night. The next morning - increased 2-2.5 times a little ran away from under a loosely closed lid. Admin, look at her as a doctor: is the patient okay? Why was room temperature not enough for her to rise? At what temperature should the starter be fed?



On it (without yeast) I baked bread. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...f&Itemid=26&topic=1084.60
But it didn't turn out to be as lush as the usual starter cultures. Not enough strength or do you need to start the leaven over again? I grow and feed her following your detailed recommendations.

zalina74, before baking the bread, the leaven must be properly brought to an active state.

I have already written about feeding sourdough many times and in detail in the subject of Sourdough in questions and answers - look. otherwise I will have to rewrite everything here.

The feeding principle is the same as for other starter cultures.
It is highly advisable to grow the starter culture according to the same scheme and principle that you originally chose.

Success

[Admin]

Thank you, Admin... I have carefully studied and study everything related to sourdough bread and MK-leaven, in particular. You write about it in great detail. I will watch her gain strength in 5-7 cycles.

[Admin]

Admin, for a couple of months now I want to ask you and I forget.
How do you feel about the thought of Maxim Syrnikov when proving rye bread
quote
Most importantly, I beat him three times.

I read this bread recipe on his website, Syrnikov knows Russian cuisine well, so it’s necessary and he turns out bread
Syrnikov bakes bread in the oven.

I deduced the formula of proofing in my own experimental way:

wheat bread - 2 proofers
wheat-rye bread - 2 proofings
rye-wheat bread - 1 proofing
rye - 1 proofing

Thank you, it means it's all in the oven.

Sorry if I repeat myself ..

After reading the topic, I didn't understand - which is better to use: kefir or yogurt? and kefir BIO is it possible?
I really want to try making friends with sourdoughs .. I decided to start with lactic acid ..

People are initially divided into two (or more) groups:
some have fear of grandmother's products from the bazaar (horror! an unwashed cow, unvaccinated, etc.);
others have a fear of goods from the store (continuous chemistry! kefir does not sour for a long time, butter is one margarine, a glass of sour cream is absolutely low-fat).
I consider myself a second, because I use yogurt and whey from making homemade cottage cheese. Anyway, the yeast in the flour is WILD, maybe they are more comfortable with WILD lactic acid bacteria from curdled milk, and not "homemade" from kefir.

[lactic acid products]

Sorry if I repeat myself ..

After reading the topic, I didn’t understand - what is better to use: kefir or yogurt? and kefir BIO is it possible?

Sourdough is made on lactic acid products... And which of them you will use - see the circumstances and the behavior of the leaven.

What's the difference between kefir and yogurt? All lactic acid

[lactic acid products]

Sourdough is made on lactic acid products... And which of them you will use - see the circumstances and the behavior of the leaven.

What's the difference between kefir and yogurt? All lactic acid

There is a difference, kefir is fermented with kefir fungus, and yogurt is MKB.

[Small addition:]

Small addition:

In the dairy industry, many types of cultures (strains) of microorganisms are used.

For example, a yoghurt starter is 50% to 50% lactobacilli and streptococci

In Latin:

Lactobacillus bulgaricus
Streptococcus thermophilus

it is this combination that gives such a delicate taste to yoghurt.

But!

I will quote:

- 70% of products with the name “kefir” on the market are completely different products. What is the fake? In order to create a real classic kefir, you need to use a ferment based on kefir fungus (this is a whole bunch of microorganisms: lactic acid steptokoks, yeast, beneficial bacteria, etc.).

Only in this case can you be sure that your body will receive useful substances characteristic of kefir.

The classical technology for preparing kefir is complex. Manufacturers, in order to make their work easier, often use starter cultures not on kefir fungi, but on pure cultures of lactic acid bacteria, thereby not achieving the required appearance and taste inherent in kefir.

How can you tell a real fermented milk drink?

The only way for a consumer to buy real kefir is, no matter how trivial, to carefully read the labeling on the package.

In the composition of real kefir, it is indicated - milk (addition of milk powder is allowed), kefir starter culture (it is it that is made on the basis of kefir fungus).

Don't fall for advertising gimmicks.If, instead of kefir sourdough, “pure cultures” are indicated in the composition, then we can confidently say that this product has nothing to do with kefir.

In addition, it is forbidden to add any dyes, preservatives or stabilizers to kefir.

If the composition contains "pure cultures", then this is no longer real kefir.

Irina Romanchuk, Deputy Director for Research, Technological Institute of Milk and Meat

The sourdough contains streptococci, there are no fungi in it, only "wild" ones. Yeast is a fungus.

The main idea of ​​the kefir starter culture is to get away from the usual thermophilic yeast and replace it with yeast added to the kefir starter culture.

Sour milk and kefir are two different fermented milk products with different technologies, so there is a suggestion - let's clarify which product was used in order to have high repeatability.

therefore there is a suggestion - let's clarify which product was used to have high repeatability.

Yes, you do not need to clarify anything, you need to do it yourself !!!!
Then you yourself will understand what, how it behaves when kneading and baking

I tried a lot of these options, in different versions - because it was interesting to get to the subtleties and find out for myself

And it is also useful to read the technology of baking - oh, how exciting !!!, and it is useful

No matter how much you say the word "halva", this will not make it sweeter.

Try it yourself

And it is also useful to read the technology of baking - oh, how exciting !!!, and it can be useful

Absolutely agree.

It is always good to have an education in order to teach someone. Otherwise, you can only share experiences, but nothing can be explained.

A good yoghurt starter. Admin, thanks.

A good yoghurt starter. Admin, thanks.

Nice to hear I wish you success in mastering ferments and breads on it

Admin, after the third feeding MK, the leaven does not grow well, rye flour temp. in the kitchen 29-30s what is wrong, should it be fed 4 times or put away for rest?

Try letting her starve for a bit and rest. Now it is very hot, the leaven can acidify. From above it can be motionless, and if you lift the crust from above - inside, its own life happens, rages.

Or put sour dough on this sourdough, then dough and dough on it.
This is what my old sour dough looks like after 6 days.

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=71845.0

Read more about this in the topic https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=71845.0 , this dough will completely replace sour leaven for you in the summer and much less hassle.

Thank you!!!

made mk-leaven. sour milk from the refrigerator +9 and rye flour. grew sluggishly, but still. after 3 feeding, the growth has changed. there are bubbles, it grows a couple of millimeters. grew at a temperature of 28 and above, it's hot here. frightened I made 4 top dressing - the situation does not change. put it in the refrigerator. I'm sitting. crying. what to do?

oh, I already see what to do