Help, nothing happens with bread !!! (Ambulance)

The best thing is to use a temperature probe, then the quality control of the baking will be 100%.
And, as a last resort, you can sin on torment, torment disease.

I always bake bread in an oven with a thermometer. And I also read somewhere that you can somehow measure the dough in the proofer, or that something is connected with acidity, and if everything is right, then you can set it to bake.
I didn't change the flour, now I baked it on it italian bread, everything worked out great.

Hello.
Tell me what could be the reason for the top of the loaf falling off. While baking, the top is convex. After the baking time, as soon as I open the lid, the top falls off.

A friend brought two identical bread makers for testing - her own and her mother's. She said that before everything was fine, but now the top is falling. I checked the time intervals - they match the tabular ones. Temperature - if you believe the Chinese avometer with a thermocouple - no more than 180 degrees.

I decided to bake bread. I baked it for the first time, I took the recipe here: simple white bread, 450 g of flour, 270 ml of water (I took tap water), I replaced olive oil with refined sunflower oil (30 g). Sugar, salt, dry fast-acting yeast - according to the recipe.
He poured water, flour on top, yeast in the recesses along the edges of the bucket, sunflower oil (separately, on one short side). On the other, salt and sugar.

Two loaves were baked in two bread makers of the same model - QUIGG MD 10259, type, from Germany
Bucket for two mixers.

Program - 1 (main),
Loaf - medium (1000 gr),
The crust is dark
2 main mixes - 5 min, after 5 min. proofing - 20 min.
Next: Proofing - 39min, kneading -10sec; Proofing - 25 min: 50 sec, kneading 15 sec; Proofing - 49min: 45sec;
Baking - 53 min. (according to the table)
Total time - 3 hours 18 minutes.

By the end of the program, the crust on the loaf seemed not at all dark to me and the baking mode was turned on. Withstood about 40 minutes out of 60 and turned it off. After opening the lid, the top is cracked and slightly opal. The sides and bottom of the loaf were somewhat dry and a bit rough. When cutting, the crumbs flew in all directions. There is no yeast odor, the crumb is soft, but elastic and does not stick together. The bread is delicious.







After baking, I left the second loaf under a napkin in the morning. In the morning there was no time to photograph the loaf, and when he was free, they had already eaten most of it.

The recipe and quantity of products are the same as last time. Only now the stirrers and the lower part of the bucket were doused with sunflower oil (30g) (as it turned out, there was no difference). Then he poured water, flour and other components on top: separately, in the corners.

Program - 1 (main),
Loaf - small (750 gr),
The crust is dark
The time for kneading and proofing is the same as last time. Only the baking time has decreased - 48 minutes. (according to the table)
Total time - 3 hours 13 minutes.

The loaf is slightly higher than the previous one. I think it’s because the tap water got to room temperature, because the food was cooked and measured, but the bookmark had to be postponed due to other household chores.
As in the last time, the top of the bread was convex and again clearly lighter on the sides (it could be seen through the viewing window). I didn’t turn on the baking mode - I didn’t want the bread to be "thick-skinned" again.
When the time was up, I opened the lid. The top of the loaf is even more opal than last time. Tastes like the first, but not as dry around the edges.







What do you think? Is it the products? Or did the dough not cook quite right?

Bread will never be the same, because the dough is a living organism, and a lot depends on the ingredients, flour moisture, kneading and baking quality, and so on ...

Look closely here:
The easiest white bread made from wheat flour
Wheat flour gingerbread man (master class)
UNDERSTANDING BREAD IN HOMEMADE BREAD
The bread rises, but falls inward. Causes.

And to help the section CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"

The crust on bread also depends on the model of the x / oven, they bake differently and give a different crust, from completely white to completely dark.

[when opening the lid at the end of baking]

Infrequent questions (in the sections proposed for study came across twice, although I did not read everything in a row) about falling off the top when opening the lid at the end of baking have been asked here before, but have been ignored each time. Is this some kind of rare and incomprehensible phenomenon?

Reduce the amount of water grams by 20.
Pour all the liquid together, then flour (be sure to sift), yeast separately in the hole, salt and sugar in another corner from the yeast.

[when opening the lid at the end of baking]

Infrequent questions (in the sections proposed for study came across twice, although I did not read everything in a row) about falling off the top when opening the lid at the end of baking have been asked here before, but have been ignored each time. Is this some kind of rare and incomprehensible phenomenon?

This is a very common occurrence among those who are just starting to engage in bread. Therefore, I gave you links to how to cook bread dough correctly, and track all stages. Try to repeat the kneading of the dough from the photo, track the flour-liquid balance, and read our tips - I hope everything works out

Thanks for answers! I will forward all this to my friend.

Hi Kenwood Bread Maker, is it okay if I pull out my knife before baking?

Hi Kenwood Bread Maker, is it okay if I pull out my knife before baking?

Fine! Read here the tips of our members of the forum How and when to remove the scoop from dough or bread?

That's what I do, thanks.

Well, so. About once a quarter and on a recipe: bread made from different flours (pansonik recipe book). Well, it's impossible already. The kneading here cannot be done separately, since there is liquidkon, there is no kolobok, then the flakes are absorbed and the dough increases. In your opinion, what is the mistake here. What about the roof - irregularities, bumps, why such a failure? It tastes good. Please do not send me to the articles, I read and reread them, I know that they are on the forum and where they are located. Please help, based on my own experience - with advice, I will be grateful!

🔗

Well, so. About once a quarter and on a recipe: bread made from different flours (pansonik recipe book). Well, it's impossible already. The kneading here cannot be done separately, since there is a liquid-liquid, there is no kolobok, then the flakes are absorbed and the dough increases. In your opinion, what is the mistake here. What about the roof - irregularities, bumps, why such a failure? It tastes good. Please do not send me to the articles, I read and reread them, I know that they are on the forum and where they are located. Please help, based on my own experience - with advice, I will be grateful!

🔗

The same trouble sometimes happens, it seems to me, it's because of the cereal. Because, on another recipe, also with cereals, the same thing. Apparently it depends on whether the flakes require cooking or not.
And you put it with a delayed start?

[Ninelle]

Ninelle,
No, right away. Can I change the flakes?
I tried to knead with dumplings and see a bun. But, there is no kolobok, I got scared and thumped flour to the kolobok, well, I got a brick. Then I realized that the liquid is absorbed by the flakes. But all the same it is not easier - I never see beautiful bread. Yesterday I put everything according to the recipe, turned it on and here's the result. At the same time, the Frenchman, wheat, etc. come out with a bang. Only bread made from mixed flour - a hedgehog roof.

[dry flakes]

Then I realized that the liquid is absorbed by the flakes

Well, here's the reason I found myself
Then there are two options:
- find a balance in the number of bookmarks dry flakes and liquids
- use pre-soaking of flakes

I like the second option more, soaking the flakes and cereals (especially in sour milk) - then the flakes get a sourdough effect, become soft, and the bread is fluffy.

I do not suggest that you read the materials of the Basics of Kneading and Baking section, since they need to be read more carefully, I will just give a link to my cereal and cereal bread - and you will draw conclusions yourself Gingerbread man made of wheat flour with multigrain grit and flakes. Master Class.

Suddenly come in handy CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"

Regarding the separate kneading in Panasonic, read the tips from those who work with this x / stove, how they combine the programs, and knead the dough separately, in order to get first a high-quality dough in the knead, and only then transfer it to proofing and baking. Of course, you have to work a little - but the result is worth it

[Admin]

Admin, Thank you! I didn’t know that the flakes can be soaked.
By kneading. I stir the rest of the dumplings for 3-5 minutes, I watch the bun. And then there is no kolobok. So I was at a loss, I didn't know how to control the kneading and bun.
Thanks again!

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda, Admin, I didn't know about soaking the flakes .. But I noticed that from the flakes from the same box, according to the same recipe, and the flour is the same, it turns out in different ways, apparently both the flakes and flour have time to dry out, despite the fact that my products are not stale. Without flakes, on blended flour (I now only bake from several types of flour) the bread is beautiful. If it works out in the evening, I'll show you a photo.

And you try to soak and cook according to my recipe, and compare the results

[Ninelle]

Ninelle, now I want to find in the instructions the periods of kneading for the program and try to peep behind the bun during kneading, probably already the second, in order to correct it.
Admin, what do you think, is it nothing that I will add flour during the second batch or is it critical and it is only possible to adjust the bun during the first batch?

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda,
I support Tatiana in trying to reduce the fluids, by 10 percent.
It may also be due to a lack of gluten; try to take wheat flour for mixed bread, not for general purpose, but for baking.
Flour should be added during the first batch, if the bun does not work.

[A citizen]

A citizen, I have a common flour, I can't find baking flour yet. They sold bags at the bakery, but now they don't. But I'll look. Here's just my bad luck with this particular recipe (((((And I really like the taste! The roof falls down, as a rule, from an excess of water? And it does not collapse after removing the loaf, it was originally like that in the bread.
What can you say about the correction of the kolobok during the second batch? Or is it easier to immediately soak the flakes and then it will be easier for me to track the kolob?

[Admin]

Admin, I will try, for me this kind of bread is very relevant, my mother has diabetes, so bread is needed with cereals, bran, etc.

[Admin]

Admin, what do you think, is it nothing that I will add flour during the second batch or is it critical and it is only possible to adjust the bun during the first batch?

MAIN ingredients and MAIN MIXING should be in the first batch. Therefore, you need to immediately, within the first minutes, understand the amount of flour and liquid in the dough. As soon as the dough begins to curl up into a bun, it is already clear what is missing anymore - flour or liquid, even if "heavy" flour or various additives of seeds, grains, flakes are used ...

If, nevertheless, the moment of control over the dough was missed, or were able to cope with the dough, then you CAN and NEED to intervene in the kneading process IN THE FIRST MINUTES of the second batch - add a drop of flour. In this situation, adding water is already problematic - the dough will turn out to be of poor quality with impurities, or you just have to turn off the x / oven and program the batch again, which is not good for the dough.

Why it is NOT DESIRABLE to interfere with the second kneading: at this time, the process of kneading the dough takes place (non-mixes are removed), and the development of gluten in the dough, and how well it goes, the bread will turn out to be so high quality.

I described all this in great detail in the topic UNDERSTANDING BREAD IN HOMEMADE BREAD

[Admin]

Admin, Thank you!

I feel I will soon switch to the oven, it's easier to control the stages. (who would have thought).

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda,
Try to simply reduce the amount of water for now.

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda,
Try to simply reduce the amount of water for now.

It is advisable, on the contrary, to go according to the principle of "flour in water" - it will be easier to add a drop of flour than to add then water and knead the tough dough in water. The principle has been tested many times and works perfectly
It is not always possible to guess with the amount of flour-liquid, even the next day of repeating baking, it would seem from the same ingredients

[Admin]

Admin, I decided that I would put the ingredients in, knead for 1 minute and let them stand for 10 minutes so that the flakes soak up the water. Then knead for 4 minutes and there I already see what kind of bun is obtained and if it is still watery, I add flour for 1 tsp. So it is possible?
(I have a stove with standing, everything is fine, but sometimes I can't watch for the start time of the kneading, so I knead on a dumplings and look)

You can do that. Only flakes of liquid are taken, the liquid may not be enough.

Try to soak the flakes for the night in advance (especially in sour milk) and start them during kneading, if necessary, add flour during kneading.
But the crumb and taste of bread will delight

It is advisable, on the contrary, to go according to the principle of "flour in water" - it will be easier

That's for sure, I do it myself.

[Admin]

Admin, I have that misunderstanding in this.
Subtract the mixing liquid from the recipe? Let's say this recipe is 300 ml. liquids. How to proceed? Soak the flakes in 100 and then pour in 200, the total will be 300? Or soak, swell, squeeze out, put and plus another 300 liquids?

Yes, you need to deduct. But the principle of control over the dough must be preserved, if it is necessary to correct it.
I write about this in detail in the topic of bread - at the link above, look there

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda,
Try pouring flakes and salt into the HP form, pour water over them, after swelling, add flour, oil, yeast and turn on the program.

[Admin]

Admin, OK, I'll try, because well, it doesn't work out and that's it. We'll have to mix it up many times))))) Thank you!

Worked on bugs. Thanks everyone!
Soaked the flakes in half the liquid. I put the cornmeal together with the simple one. The flakes were absorbed, then I put everything in a bucket and put it for kneading, I had to add flour to the recipe amount, 3 tablespoons. Sugar put 1 spoon instead of one and a half. The bread rose better - this is a loaf of 500 grams, and the previous one was 750 grams and was heavier / denser / lower in appearance.
I'll cut it as it cools. But it's better. The gingerbread man was kneading, it was not smeared on the walls. It seemed to be smooth enough. (I studied the topic, Tatyana, thanks!). But the roof is still uneven in one place.
Did you need more flour? What else can I do, which way to move?

There is enough flour, even a bit too much, it seems to me. I'll wait for the cut to be convincing

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda,
No, here, rather, you need a little less flour (try literally a spoon less), usually such a roof with too dense dough, when, due to elasticity, there is not enough gas pressure for a uniform rise.

[Natalia]

Natalia, now even flour sometimes comes across mixed with something, with something
Recently I got rid of Ashanovskaya (because I do not take small batches), so the bread was just ugly

Makfa with the letter A (before the date of manufacture) a win-win option

[Alex100]

Alex100,
So it was necessary to experiment.

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda, and if flour is not added additionally?

[Ninelle]

Ninelle, do not add, so the bun was smeared on the walls, but this should not be. But I'll try next time.
I went to cut and lay out the cut.

I cut it and tried it. It is much better! lighter, tastier, springy crumb. Tatiana and company - make a verdict - where to go?


For some reason, a complete layman in bakery, it seems to me that I would also need a spoonful of flour ... Without adding flour, a skirt stretched behind him, maybe it was necessary to stop on it? I added 2 tablespoons of flour and the skirt was removed, it became a bun.

The crumb is good! But there is a thickening of the crumb at the very bottom of the bread. This is possible if the dough was still a little tight, the yeast thought for a long time how to raise the dough to the full thickness of the mold at once, made a jerk when strong heating began during baking - but the "injury" remained

It was advisable to add only 1 tbsp. l. flour, let the dough remain soft (but not runny!). Here you also need to learn how to choose exactly the moment when you need to stop and say to yourself "ENOUGH!" otherwise the dough will become steep Sometimes you can leave droplet slurry under the dough, in the case, as now, for example, with Herculean dough, when the Hercules strives to constantly absorb the liquid and thicken.
This can be compared to oatmeal porridge - it will stand and thicken, absorbs liquid ad infinitum

And so, YOUNG MAN! Overcame the bread!

[Admin]

Admin, Tatyana, yes, I thought about the flakes, which they can still absorb, but I could not stop myself and put two tablespoons of flour, probably one would be enough. Next time I'll try.
Just another question. I do the kneading without flour and then the yeast falls from the dispenser onto the bun, so it's probably hard for them to lift the bun. Next time, can yeast put in right away? Liquid and so on, then flour and yeast and watch the kolobok kneading with yeast?

I am also honing the recipe. That's 500 grams. The same bread again. (corn flour, flakes) This time I also soaked the flakes, waited, then everything in a bucket (from water to dry ingredients), peeped on the batch, added 1 tbsp. a spoonful of flour. And she stopped at this 1 spoonful of flour, she just forcibly stopped herself after one tablespoon. Although, honestly, the hand was stretching!
In the context I will add a photo - how it cools down. It seems to be wow, smooth)))))
Tatiana, how? I am almost satisfied.
Thanks to everyone who took part in this bread!



I add a cut. Better in my opinion.

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda,
Congratulations and I join in gratitude to Tatyana for helping you.

[A citizen]

A citizen, Thank you! I then reduced the sugar!)))))

Next time I will throw yeast along with flour, I will not wait for an automatic dispenser. Then the rise will be more even. Probably.

[Bast1nda]

Bast1ndaexcellent bread, cut shows fluffy and lightweight. I have no doubt that it is delicious!

[AnastasiaK]

AnastasiaK, yes, I cut it and tried it. Better, much better. Lightweight, springy! Not clogged.

[Bast1nda]

Bast1nda, it can be seen from the photo, you did it! And the top is even, it didn't break, didn't fall, didn't crumple. Continue in the same spirit!

[Natasha]

Next time I will throw yeast along with flour, I will not wait for an automatic dispenser. Then the rise will be more even. Probably.

This will be correct, the yeast will immediately start working and do its job

Natasha, pretty bread!

[Admin]

Admin, Tatiana, thank you!