Artisanal bread without kneading

I see many made such bread - tell me.
What is the optimal storage temperature (or rather cold fermentation)? I have a bowl of 12 ° C in the refrigerator in the evening, set on the lid. And I want to use in the future a glazed loggia (north side of the house). What temperature fluctuations does such a dough allow?

[Palych]

Palych, its me again
I found this information:
At a temperature of about 25 degrees, the dough will do on average in 2-2.5 hours.
At a temperature of 10 degrees - 8 hours.
At a temperature of 5 degrees - 18 hours.
But here we are talking about sourdough dough, not dry yeast. Dry yeast works faster, especially if you let it run properly at first.
Here's another link, read what smart people write. (Look for the answer 3322 on the page and click on the "show" button there)
Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4) # 3322
Personally, I would not cool the dough below +4, then everything will freeze completely. And +12 is fine in my opinion, just don't keep it for three days, the night is enough.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, that kneaded well. I changed the yeast to dry Lviv.
Yesterday at 21:20 (on the advertisement) I "hammered", after two hours I stirred it, doubled it! Then after another two, the dough almost touched the lid of the bowl (it is large, about five liters), stirred it with a chipper until a ball stuck around it, as the chupachups learned ... sticky. I put it in the refrigerator where there was a place, I wanted to go to the loggia, I even opened it, but the temperature on the floor is 17 ° C, it's warm here. In the morning (at 11 o'clock), the mass still prevented, it increased and the ball spreads out. I think in an hour and I'll get it out and ... I'll try to flatten it, squeeze it, I don't like big holes and put it in the cold. oven for an hour or two right in the mold. And I will try to bake it right away, without heating, water immediately to the bottom with half a liter.
And I googled the optimal cold temperature, it is 50F, i.e. 10 ° C and not lower than 5 °



Oh, ATP for the link, it means you don't need to put a ball in the cold, but flatten it as much as possible, so that it would cool more evenly, and in the kolobok inside it is certainly warmer and keeps the initial temperature longer.
I twirled a bit of the thermal sensor, right now 8 ° C on the shelf.
And when mixing, I put it on fermentation in an empty oven, so that it would not take up space. In the kitchen it was 22 ° and in the oven with a light bulb it was 28, just according to Feng Shui.
And I will immediately knead the next portion, for the day after tomorrow, they say you don't need to wash the promise, even it's good when there are leftovers. And I want to replace some of the flour with rye, I like gray bread. What do you think out of 460 flour, 300 and 160 rzhn. fine? And a little less yeast

[Palych]

Palych, I did not bake this bread from a cold oven, I do not know what will happen, but you can try. Only then do not put the water down, otherwise it will take a lot of heat to warm up the water, everything will take a very long time and the dough will stop and fall off in the oven. Better just spray the workpiece from above and it will be fine.
It will work well with rye flour if you like this bread. I would not reduce the yeast, rye flour is heavy, it is more difficult for yeast to raise it. Or did you read somewhere here that the yeast was reduced and it turned out well?
I just advise from general considerations, but if someone tried it, then it's another matter.

Where have you been before (((, in general, I was a little upset with this batch ((

It is still better to plant this bread in a preheated oven, it has been fermenting so much, it needs to be baked rather.
Do not be discouraged, to ruin the bread is still not a piece of meat to spoil, you can afford to experiment

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, took it out of the refrigerator, powdered his hands and dough, began to sculpt a ball slightly and in his hands it began to bubble, bubbles would pour, burst ...In general, I threw it back into the bowl and wrinkled it a bit, made a pancake and wrapped the edges to the center, put it in an aluminum mold and in a cold oven for about an hour and a half. During this time, it almost did not rise ... okay. Turned on for 200 and after 18 minutes the TENs turned off, steam (poured a glass of water into the pan at once) ... baked for another 30 minutes, the top was browned ... took it out, stood in the form of 10 minutes, it came out easily, BUT the bottom and barrel below are soft and white ... I put it straight on the grate without a shape and again for 15 minutes.
Generally not baked at the bottom. When cut, the crumb is dense, fine-pored like a washcloth and does not seem to be damp, but somehow moist ... let's see how it cools





In the photo I'm special. showed the cant. When forming, I wrapped the bottom with an envelope and these petals parted. The crust is thin and soft, not crispy ((



I'm a bad student with you, Sveta), refuse?

[Palych]

Palych, dear, of course it didn’t come up, you wrinkled it. The dough that has come up should be treated gently, like a beloved girl. You read - everything is written in the recipe:
... After the holding time has elapsed, put the dough on a table dusted with flour and shape into a round loaf. We put on baking paper lightly dusted with flour (it is most convenient to lay it on a smooth board or plate) and leave it uncovered for 40-60 minutes
It is not written anywhere, then it must be crumpled - just gently rounded.
In general, my advice is as follows: take a recipe, for example this one and do exactly that and as it says in nm. Without experimenting with the composition, amount of yeast, proofing time, baking technologies. You achieve a satisfactory and stable result and only then can you take liberties.
Otherwise, after reading everything in the world, you start to change all the tips at the same time and the result is disastrous.
This is a good recipe and many have made wonderful breads from it. And you will definitely succeed!
And the crumb, by the way, is not so bad. And the loaf shape is good. The crust is soft and pale underneath due to the water in the oven. We need steam there, not water

I'm a bad student with you, Sveta), refuse?

Never!



Here is a link to a video on molding
🔗
You see, there they tuck the edges of the dough inward and press with force, seal this edge. And then they turn over and round the workpiece as if pulling the surface. Of course, the dough falls off slightly at the same time, but they do not crush it on purpose, they try to preserve all gases inside the workpiece as much as possible. And well-stretched gluten does not release gases outside, allows them to accumulate and the bread to rise.

Why did he start throwing bulbs when I took him in my hands?)
Now it is 6 o'clock there is a millet-rye dough, I’ll go to knead and in the cold. And then for three hours at once stood without signs of life near validol. Some kind of peeled flour, I just finished looking, but took only 160 grams out of 460.

Why did he start throwing bulbs when I took him in my hands?)

Well, the outer bubbles burst, which is good, you don't like big holes in bread. And what is inside must be preserved as much as possible.

Some kind of peeled flour

Just what you need.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, on the video: the dough I had was more moist, sticky, it came off the bowl with thin threads, the petals of the envelope did not peel off as famously as the author's. I thought that being an hour / one and a half in the form on the rack, they would kind of dissolve, disappear, and her ... (((And her dough is so elastic, smooth. And I didn't have to do this. I just read in the subject) that someone that would not have large pores and holes in the crumbs so upset him. Like more often to squeeze out excess gas from the dough and give the yeast new food, they themselves do not run there.)



I reasoned like this, since in a minute they rushed about from the cold from the warmth of their hands, then crush them a little, give them food, and in an hour they would rise to the floor of the bucket ... and for this I took a large saucepan, read that at least three times will grow up at the time of baking, and even more so I did not plan abruptly, putting it in a hot stove, but a gradual increase in temperature when warming up, so that the hat rose just below the top of the mold and then somewhere in the middle of the process.
I here and with the size of the form blunt. Probably not good when I put less dough than necessary in the form.?

About workouts.
In the beginning, when you knead the dough, the yeast is rich in food and oxygen. They breathe actively, grow and emit a lot of carbon dioxide. At this moment, they may not have enough oxygen and we help them breathe with the help of a knee-length.But at some point, the activity of the yeast begins to decline, the more we put them in the cold. Oxygen consumption is falling, and we must protect the accumulated gases. Therefore, at first we knead more often, then less often. Don't bother them all the time.



About molding.
It is clear that the dough in the video is smooth, well kneaded. It's not like that here.
Sprinkle flour on the table and hands, but not the dough. Then, when folding, the edges of the dough will seal well and there will not be such a gap as in your bread.
Here you don't even have to bend it, but you need to round the workpiece and stretch the gluten. As they do at the end of the video.

Two, as written.
And what will happen if you overexpose this dough? While I was reading, watching the video, I rushed to my rye ... a full bowl of "jelly")), stirred it with a spatula in a circle, collected it in a sticky ball and in the refrigerator.
Now only interfere in the morning and in the evening? I will cook on Sunday morning, tomorrow I will do it.
Yes, what else ... according to these standard proportions, how much form is needed? How many liters?

Came with a report. I kneaded the dough in a minute with a Danish whisk. Divided the dough into two parts and got two sneakers. The dough has risen three times in the oven.



and here is the cut.



Unexpectedly, but very pleased with the result, better than even a pure ciabatta. Baked on a Teflon rug on an aluminum baking sheet "American." (The baking sheet itself is in the background of the photo) And the baking sheet itself on a hot stone. Thanks to the author of the recipe

two sneakers

cool came out

[Trishka]

Trishka, Ksyusha, Thank you!

got two sneakers

beautiful
I also bake this bread. Fragrant, fragrant, delicious. It ends quickly.
I knead a double portion
Enough for three bread. I bake every day

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, Lelka, Thank you! What shape do you bake your three daily bread?

[Alevtina]

Alevtina, because I have a semblance of an oven, micra with convection, molds - a small round frying pan with a diameter of 20 cm, or silicone for a cake.
Others will not enter)))

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, Lelka, understood))

Yesterday I watched a video on YouTube where the girl did exactly the same recipe 460/360/4 only salt not 10, but 8 grams (I think this is not important) and after kneading and standing for an hour in the warmth IMMEDIATELY in the refrigerator, without settling.
So you need to stir this approaching mass before putting it in the cold, or not?





Wheat-rye from two sides, on one side the cap was blown up.

[Palych]

Palych, Igor, before landing in the refrigerator, I walked from the edges to the bottom to the center with a silicone spatula, (it's like a granny sticks a blanket under a baby so that they don't blow anywhere) the dough and deflated. I let it sit in a glass salad bowl (it is very convenient to observe what size the bubbles are inflating), and pull the packing film on top. Salt took 10 grams and 8 grams of raw yeast.

[Creamy]

Left without support in the baking process, when the whale was splashing into a frying pan, all the water went back (((, it was good that I was wearing glasses and there is a reaction (two daughters and two grandchildren from each), but scalded my lips, nose and cheeks (((xs .. . maybe there was oil in it and ... well, something like that ...
For bread.
He pulled out a cold one from a bowl and in his hands (and not only), smeared with flour on the weight, slightly rounded it, as in the video, tried) and immediately put the sausage in the prepared L7 mold, greased with fat / butter / flour and lightly powdered with flour on top and put it in the cold email oven for an hour. Then. removing food. film, turned on the heating to 220 ° C and after turning off the heating elements (16 minutes passed) splashed a cup of boiling water (200 grams) and reduced it to 180, baked for another 40 minutes.



Creamy, if not mistaken, then I read your topic about replacing baking in a std bucket hb for std. Form L7, how much flour / water does the recipe need and how much to put in the form? I put everything according to this recipe, until the middle of the dough it turned out somewhere and for baking it rose only to the level of the mold, well, it could be looking out. And the brick itself turned out to be low for this.

[Palych]

Palych, Igor, I do not splash boiling water, I feel sorry for myself and the oven.I pour hot water into a small baking sheet from the tap and put it on the bottom of the oven, while I turn on the top-bottom mode with convection, I set the temperature to 240 degrees. When the thermometer, suspended on the bars of the grate, shows the required 240 degrees, then I put my aluminum baking sheet with spaced slippers on the hot stone on the grate. That is, my slippers are parted on an aluminum baking sheet and baked on it, I don't throw them anywhere, I don't throw them off, I don't injure them. I am lazy.

[Alevtina]

Alevtina, that I did this last time, poured water immediately into the water and turned on the heating ... but they criticized me !!!), They say steam needs 15 minutes, and I put bread in the form right away, then I'm afraid to rummage in a hot oven, put, pour water ... well, now a lesson.

[Palych]

Palych, you are not said to be lucky that you did not burn your eyes. Any skin heals, sometimes scarring. The eyes also heal, but at the same time the person becomes blind forever. Safety comes first.

[Alevtina]

Alevtina, so, do not leave) So you have water in a small pan, otherwise I used the regular one, but this time I took it off and replaced it with a pan ... for some reason, the bottom was poorly baked, I rearranged the grate below (see photo) and removed the bottom. oppose that it would not shield, cover the lower TEN and, in theory, more heat would go from below.
How is it safe to put water now and in what? I won't splash, well, it ... but if you quickly insert a bowl of cold water at max heating?

[Palych]

Palych, Igor, because your bread in the form of L7 was too small, because yours is not completely wheat, but with the addition of rye flour. Here is wheat flour and had to be raised. work for yourself and your brother.

But after 15 minutes of baking slippers in the oven, I take out the baking sheet with water. For this I have a special large homemade potholder made of batting. And yes, I always turn my face away from the steam.



Palych, Igor, why with cold water, or don't you have central hot water? I pour water from a tap at a temperature of 58-60 degrees (really, such a high temperature, my house is second in line from a heat distribution point). After all, steam is obtained from a baking sheet of hot water or from splashing cold water on hot metal. And so the steam from the poured hot water will be generated faster.

I already have a bowl of dough-dough in the cold where there are only 100g of peeled rye from 460, it should be better, right? And this time I didn't cheat at all, as soon as I got such a "jelly" (it fermented for 2 hours and minutes at 28 °) and put it in the refrigerator for Wed. shelf (10-12 °, I put a thermometer from the room on the lid, I control)

People, why are you making a steam room for bread in the form of a steam room? I thought it was just a trick for hearth breads.

[Bijou]

I boil water (a glass somewhere) and today I splashed little whales into the pan), it's a minute !! There are two e-mails. boiler, in the kitchen is such a floor, 15 liters somewhere, and the bathroom is 80 liters ... the center has been gone for a long time.



Bijou, should not have?!!! Everywhere I read that the first 15-20 minutes with steam and high temperature, and no one corrected it. And my roof was torn, I think due to the fact that the crust grabbed, baked, and the dough from the inside pressed and the water / steam, in theory, should just make this crust softer, more elastic.

[Bijou]

Bijou, I bake tin bread in a bread maker, this is L7 or a small toast pan. And in the oven with steam, only a hearth or slippers.



Here's a picture of my little water pan on a standard "American".

See the photo in the topic. In hearths, a "hernia" often crawls out, unfolds the hat, makes incisions on this .... I also tried to do it, but the dough is watery in itself and all my cracked wounds immediately tightened before our eyes. Was it necessary not to cover it with a film during the spreading, to let the crust dry out slightly, to harden? And then perhaps you can cut it?

And in the oven with steam, only a hearth or slippers.

So otozh .. And Palych something like a mold bake. And even from below, the heat blocks.)

Biju, wasn’t it necessary? !!! Everywhere I read that the first 15-20 minutes with steam and high temperature, and no one corrected it. And my roof was torn, I think, due to the fact that the crust grabbed, baked, and the dough from the inside pressed and water / steam, in theory, should just make this crust softer, more elastic.

To be honest, I’m the one who’s my advisor ... I often do stupid things myself. But as far as I remember the original about bread without kneading, in general, together with the oven, a form with a lid heats up, there, into a hot interior, bread is thrown off and covered with a lid. Then the cover is removed to brown the roof.

Now I am tormented, mastering the desktop oven, there, because of the low chamber, the top is also overcooked and even the hearth bread tears on the side. No steam rescues - the top still grasps at the moment, no matter what water is there or not. Therefore, it has become fashionable to turn off the top heating for 5-10 minutes immediately after placing the bread in the oven until the loaf rises properly.

In hearths, a "hernia" often pops out, unfolds the cap, and makes incisions on it ..

So that's the hearth. They are supposed to be baked on a stone - because of the rapid contact heat transfer, the dough literally explodes. And also the correct "explosion" is a competent balance between the amount of yeast, the amount of remaining nutrition for them and the time of the final proofing. Which is quite difficult to achieve with such a "long" test, IMHO. Especially for a beginner.

[Lena]

Lena, the upper TEN does not turn off, only the lower one is a convention (blowing), a mini-oven el. I promised my youngest daughter to buy on DR, right now I choose.
At the expense of steam, I reasoned like this, if the dough rises two or three times when baking, then if I shy away immediately at a higher temperature, then the crust, the shell will immediately grab, harden and inevitably rupture during the rise, so it is necessary to make it for these 15 - 20 minutes while the bread grows more elastic, stretchable, and this can be done by moisturizing, steam. Then the steam is harmful, last time I messed up and steamed for half an hour (I poured a lot of water) and the bottom was poorly baked and was moist and soft, not crispy and flanks.



Bijouwhat kind of mini oven do you have? I can't choose ... is this convention important?




It cooled down on the grill from the oven and I covered it with a towel on top (so that the crust would be softer and the moisture would remain, not much evaporated), but in vain. Dense and a bit damp crumb like that ... few holes, which is what I wanted.

I can't choose ... is this convention important?

With such a question, it is better in the topic of choosing such ovens, but let it be better for convection.)

IMHO, normal bread on the cut, in vain you find fault. Even very good, I would say. The main thing is that its taste and smell is incomparable with the usual "quick bread". I baked a long dough for a couple of years just in a slow cooker and we also liked it.) Now we have spoiled ourselves with a normal oven and are capricious. But something about the shape didn't really appeal to me, even if the shape is completely flat. He does not pick up the usual aroma and that's it. Some kind of poltergeist ..

In the photo you can see in the center such a slightly light ring and the crumb there is dense ... what is it and what is it connected with?
And they say that dark bread is eaten after a while, a few hours after baking, and immediately it should be slightly moist, is that so?

what is it and what is it connected with?

You wrapped the dough in that place. The dough is long, well-fermented, it no longer has new strength to rise quickly. Therefore, strongly flattened / compressed areas hardly rise anymore and their density increases in comparison with the rest of the undisturbed space. Suitable?

Yes, after a while it will not be so wet. But it will remain the same elastic - usually even on the third day long bread is springy, as if fresh.
But if it is not baked, then by this time unpleasant notes will appear in the smell. And in general, excessive moisture may be the result of weak baking, but I cannot determine this from the photo - the eye is not the same, there is little experience.))

[Lena]

Lena, fits ... yes, pinched it well, so that it would not come apart like the last one.It was all baked inside, but I would add 5 minutes. Peck without blowing, then they dissuaded me from this convention, tried it without. I don't know how best to act now and when it is needed and useful, or at what stage it should be applied and how much.



And also ... in the video, the dough is formed using yellow flour, corn flour? What for? What is its plus? And I have a lot of peeled dark, can it be in it? And do you need to pour it into the form itself when you bookmark it?
My bread soles are somehow soft-thin, moist, not much, but there is. Was it necessary to pour more flour into the bottom of the form, so that it would bake and the crust would be stronger? Or did I put a lot of oil in the mold and it saturated the bottom?
And after baking, wash the mold strongly, or just wipe it off from residues?

[Palych]

Palych, sorry, I left you to fend for yourself
But I see, the people pulled themselves up, did not leave you alone with problems. Now I can connect too.

In the photo you can see in the center such a slightly light ring and the crumb there is dense ... what is it and what is it connected with?

Of course, it's difficult to judge from the photo, but I have a feeling that you went too far with flour during molding, and when you wrapped and sealed the edges, this flour got inside the workpiece. I remind you that you don't need to sprinkle the workpiece with flour, only the table and hands, and then a little.
Corn flour is indeed sometimes used for molding, it is grainy, does not get wet from wet dough, and therefore the bread does not stick to the table and proofing tins. You can just as well use semolina.
But personally, I like to use vegetable oil for molding. I lightly grease the table and hands, nothing sticks and there is no danger of wrapping unmixed flour in bread. But it's a matter of taste - who has adapted to what.

Was it necessary to pour more flour into the bottom of the form, so that it would bake and the crust would be stronger?

No, you don't need to pour flour into the mold. The mold is only lightly greased with oil, or better with this absolutely wonderful non-stick grease. Our entire forum uses it.

Universal non-stick mold release (mary_kyiv)

My bread soles are somehow soft-thin, moist, not much, but there is.

That's why I don't like tin bread. The lower crust is always paler than the upper one. You need to adapt to your oven - choose at what level to put the form so that the bottom and top blush more or less the same. And when the bread is ready, do not leave it to cool in the form, immediately take it out and cool on the wire rack.

And after baking, wash the mold strongly, or just wipe it off from residues?

I wash, because I bake once a week and am afraid that the remaining fat will go rancid. And someone just wipes it. In general, at your discretion.

But in general, the bread looks very good. How does it taste?

Today. Rye flour is even slightly less (100g out of 460). Without a single mixing-settling. In the cold (10 ° C) day (also did not touch the dough), easy formation of a bun-sausage (in the hands), form L7, in cold e-mail. oven for 1 hour (28 ° С), proofing under a lid (from the roaster) and without removing (sprinkling the dough with water), turning on convection up to 220 ° С + 20 minutes, (after turning off the heating elements), removing the lid and reducing the temperature to 200 ° for another 35 minutes.

P / s on the one hand blew the roof off again ...

Wonderful bread! And the bottom is tanned and the top and the roof are convex - beauty!

on the one hand the "roof" was blown off again ...

Did it really rip off? Probably there was a little bit of proofing time. Just a little. But it’s better this way, with a small crack, than if the dough stops and the roof falls off.
How does it taste?

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, yeah ... thrown, I've already exhausted half a can of panthenmol.
As for yesterday's bread ... in general, today it has become quite "thick", I obviously did not bother, today I corrected and used convection completely (I read reviews for it in another topic)
Yes, exactly, this is dry dough and it was probably, I pinched (((
I use this non-stick.
Instead of "splashing boiling water," I tried another technique, under the lid, it should, according to the idea, prevent rapid evaporation from the dough and its own moisture should be enough.The lid is not tight (from the goose maker).
Today Ashan bought such a sieve with a handle and spin. from pressing it with scrapers, small and spray. Weighted flour, premium grade and dry malt (fermented, dark).



No, the proofing has nothing to do with it, last time I was two hours and warm. Obviously from the side of the door or from the end, there is a temperature difference, a draft (sealed door), now I will put the form not frontally, but with the narrow side to the door, so that I can see the end of the form, and not the side.



I haven’t cut it yet, but the cake is on the grate. Is the heat from the oven chamber not a hindrance to him? Now I will not cover with a towel, otherwise they are always damp afterwards, the moisture evaporates, and the dough itself is more moist and sticky according to the recipe.
I want the hat to be slightly higher, so more flour and water is needed?
Beat up a new batch
500 flour (450 white and 50 rye) for 400 ml of water, half a tea (a little more) yeast and two cereals of salt.
When laying in a mold earlier, the dough occupied 1/3 of the volume, probably more, up to half.




I could not resist, cut off the edge ... gray, soft, plump (as I need), hot and wet so far ..




Today.
The proportions 500/400 are too great, the mushroom has grown. Allowed to rise until the dough rises to the top board of the mold. Pitch at maximum temperature and incl. convection (the top is burnt), for some reason, according to this recipe, the crumb is moist and compacted in past breads. And the day will stand and some kind of plasticine and is separated from the crust.
I made two batches for tomorrow. One right in shape. I have a problem - I don't know how to knead, shape, I'll try to simplify this stage too.

I have a problem - I do not know how to knead, shape, and I will try to simplify this stage.

You can, of course, try to do without molding, but I do not advise. When molding, we stretch the gluten, and if this is not done, the gases from the bread will evaporate. You can get a pancake instead of a loaf. It is in this recipe that someone has already run into it.
But it is difficult to learn from someone else's experience, you have to fill your own bumps, so go for it!

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I cannot understand how to do this, it is all slippery, sticky, semi-liquid, all the turns do not stick together, they open ...
It can be seen from the photo of the section that the upper part grew in shape after the dough was laid, the pores were more or less formed, enlarged, and stretched. And the lower one is not developed. Probably narrow metal. the brick-shaped box is not friendly with this type of dough, it is cramped for him. I found a few round thick aluminum pots with lids and a goose pan, I will try them.

I can't figure out how to do this, it's all slippery, sticky, semi-liquid, all the turns do not stick together, they open ...

I gave you a link to a video on molding. Look closely from 5.11 to 5.22 seconds. There, a round workpiece is twisted, pulled and tucked. But you need to master this movement. What they do before - wrap the dough in an envelope, twist - in our case it is not necessary. Just round with the surface tension. If there was an opportunity to show you personally at least once, you would immediately grasp the essence, and so - study different videos.
This dough is really quite moist and difficult to work with. Try not to dust with flour when shaping, but to grease the table and hands with oil. It's much easier for me personally.
If you have a large gosper, you can try baking in it. Take the dough out of the fridge, mold it while cold, and leave it to sit on the table on baking paper. At this time, preheat the oven along with the goose maker and the lid to it.
When the dough is settled and everything is warmed up in the oven, transfer the blank directly on the paper to the hot goose pan, close it with a hot lid and bake 200 degrees for 15-20 minutes. Then you open the lid and bake. It turns out great, and you don't have to fool around with the steam. But a goose pan or a saucepan should be large, 5 liters, or even more.

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, looked ... well, it doesn't work (((and my hands in oil and the table and nose ... sticks. Well, I'll twirl, knocking my palms under the bottom, it floats, bubbles, hands stick ... nothing stretches there ...I will throw it into an oiled form, I will slightly align it on top of the entire area, I can wet my palm in water, so that the hat would be smoother and worth an hour / one and a half.
I've simplified all these ala-moldings today, with my oil hands blew up the whole pancake straight from the bowl from the refrigerator and straight into the mold))), what's the point of my pseudo-molding? Only neurons (



Nooo, with a red-hot iron I sc ** work)), straight into the cold and incl. heating, all hb and multiV work this way, gradually heat up the mold and niche ... the main thing for me is that it would be edible, not raw and would not fall apart the next day.

the main thing for me is that it would be edible, not raw and would not fall apart the next day

All this cannot be achieved without molding.
But okay, I got it. Further - without me.

So we will form and disband if necessary)
And without molding, I read in another topic. In principle, all recipes for dough-free dough are the same, a little% of water in the dough differs, and with yeast, the ripening time is better and it is better than at least 10-12 hours, so that a ripe dough would form.
In this recipe, the dough is still relatively thick, there is generally a semi-liquid, it spreads on the table, judging by the reports, and how do they manage to knead-knock this? Here's one that poured it straight into a silicone mold and it seemed to work out well.

Further - without me

Thank you for that too. I'll try it myself. As it is not very dense here with assistants (

[Palych]

Palych, Igor, buy yourself a pastry scraper to help you. It is more convenient to work with it if the dough is liquid, sticky.