Monastic leavens

The second time the leaven was delivered peacefully dozing in the jar. And the added rye flour didn't stir her up.
But I am a stubborn and stubborn person! This weekend I'll put her back on and feed her until she begs to be put in the refrigerator!

Tashenka!
We are all rooting for you!
All leavens are very capricious, and I am happy that I did not face such problems as you! But I remember how I was tormented with custard bread and what happiness I experienced when it finally turned out!
So! In the end, a prize awaits you -
my-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh pleasure!

It seems to work !!!
Of course, she was not going to run away from me yet, but I decided to feed her, my martyr. The "leaven food" turned out to be very thick and did not want to be eaten in any way. Helped her ... with a mixer. (I hope it doesn't take offense ...)
Now I'm waiting for what will happen next.

I continue my report, if, of course, no one objects. Perhaps my experience will be useful to someone.
The sourdough was not offended by the mixer at all. Quite the opposite. Since she fed her in full (50 to 75), she had to be relocated to a new room: a 1 liter jar. So, in less than 3 hours, it rose almost to the top and became so airy, magnificent.
I closed it with a plastic lid with holes and put it in the refrigerator. There she grew a little more, and in the morning she sagged slightly. But the appearance has not deteriorated.
Now questions.
1. Did I seal it correctly for storage?
2. When baking the dough, do I need to keep it outside the refrigerator to bring it to room temperature, or can I use cold?
3. Should the next feed be carried out in the same volume, or can the amount of water and flour be reduced, keeping the ratio 3: 2?
4. Is it okay if, without using the leaven, it will stand until Saturday, that is, 4 days, or at this time you need to eat it again?
Thanks to the one who read everything and decides to answer.

1. Did I seal it correctly for storage?
2. When baking the dough, do I need to keep it outside the refrigerator to bring it to room temperature, or can I use it cold?
3. Should the next feed be carried out in the same volume, or can the amount of water and flour be reduced, keeping the ratio 3: 2?
4. Is it okay if, without the use of the leaven, it will stand until Saturday, that is, 4 days, or at this time you need to eat it again?
Thanks to the one who read everything and decides to answer.

1. Lid with holes - correct.
2. Before baking, it is advisable to take the starter culture out of the refrigerator. Because she should wake up a little from the "sleepy state". However, if you use refrigerated leaven, the proving process will take longer.
3. The next feeder can be downsized, but it is important to maintain a 3: 2 ratio. The feeder will further depend on the amount of bread baked. If you need only 3 tbsp. l. with a slice, then you need to feed it with about the same amount (a little more), and if you need sourdough for two or more loaves, then the feeding should be increased accordingly.
4. The leaven will calmly survive 4 days of inactivity (I have had more). But on the eve of making bread, it is worth feeding it.

Good luck

Ie, on Friday night she should be given a little "food"?
Then I have another question. After this feeding, it is necessary to put it back in the refrigerator, or can you put aside a certain amount of sourdough right after getting up and leave it overnight?
Thank you.

[Tashenka]

Tashenka on Friday we feed and leave on the table. On Saturday we take the required amount for baking bread, and feed the rest and put it in the refrigerator until the next use.

So she will run away from me overnight if she is as active as yesterday!
Anyway. Trying is not torture. I'll live until Friday, and then we'll see.
Thanks for the educational program.

[Tashenka]

Tashenka

So she will run away from me overnight if she is as active as yesterday!

For this it is worth getting a more capacious container.

I made hop sourdough # 1. At the beginning of the second day, on the surface, on one of their pieces, I found mold (the leaven was three-layer: liquid flour and a little more floating flour). Now you need to completely redo it? And whether you need to mix in tech. these first two days. What could I have done wrong?
The smell is just leavening ...

Here, for another day she stood, thick at the bottom and liquid at the top, hissing there for herself, but did not want to rise ...
So I live without leaven, they don't want to grow with me ...

Although no one stubbornly answers me (maybe I can't be seen), I will answer myself:

I gained time (if I can muster it) and patience, rustled close topics and decided to add rye flour until sour cream was thick, did not add water, because I don’t know if I needed it now and went about my business. When I came in 3 hours, I found out that SHE went into growth and decently. But I don't know if I need to put it in the refrigerator or let it live in the warmth (to put it mildly).
I'll think about it again and decide.

I write all this, maybe it will be useful to someone.
So I talked to myself. She asked questions herself, she answered

I want to share my not very successful experience.
After adding rye flour, it fermented well, but became very bitter. Then she nursed it all the same. She baked bread a couple of times, but she didn't want to live with me. No matter how I fed her or lived.
I want to try again.
Something sourdough doesn't like me very much. So kefir does not want to sour in any way.

I think it's time to put it in the refrigerator today.
And, actually, it seems that standing heat is not the best condition for making sourdough.
During my absence (1.5 months), my starter cultures in the fridge became unusable. I began to start new ones, and so, the lactic acid sourdough based on 1% kefir and milk per day was divided into water and flour, there is no fermentation. And the rye sourdough, on the contrary, was poured onto the table in 3 hours, half of it through an oversight (well, unexpectedly such agility) remained on the table. I put it in the refrigerator, stood the night, bubble, but I don’t know what will happen in the end

[Celestine]

Celestine, if mold is found, then everything needs to be redone. Never use moldy sourdough!
The consistency of the "starter" sourdough should resemble the consistency of sour cream. If there is a separation of the liquid, then it is worth adding a little flour.
If the leaven has grown and you are not going to bake bread, then put the leaven in the refrigerator, and feed it before baking (the day before). You will succeed!

Tashenka , the leaven is bitter at first (thanks to the hops) But this will not affect the bread, unless of course you bake the leaven itself like bread

[Celestine]

Celestine, if mold is found, then everything needs to be redone. Never consume leaven with mold!
The consistency of the "starter" sourdough should resemble the consistency of sour cream. If there is a separation of the liquid, then it is worth adding a little flour.
If the leaven has grown and you are not going to bake bread, then put the leaven in the refrigerator, and feed it before baking (the day before). You will succeed!

Thanks for the answer! I report: the mold (half a coffee spoon was on one piece of floating flour) was removed and flour was added, I already wrote above, I decided to try it at night, I kneaded the dough according to your recipe, but instead of water I added milk and left it for a night. In the morning I found a well-risen dough, I baked bread. Height: half-shape, not dull, bubbly and tasty, you can feel the bitterness, but you can endure. You can say: I did it !!!

The only thing is, I'll have to change the leaven, I'll make it thicker right away.

[Celestine]

Celestine , congratulations on your initiative !!!

[Lola]

Lola, bitter is one thing, and poisonous bitter is quite another.I already wrote about this. But when I put it, as it should be, on wheat, and fed it with rye, then I got a pleasant sour-bitter-sweet taste. And the bitterness was not felt in the bread.
Here is the stanent a little cooler, I try to put the leaven again. Still, I will achieve a good result!

[Celestine]

Celestine , congratulations on your initiative !!!

Thank you! I will improve in the cultivation of starter cultures. I already grow mushrooms at home (tea), now, in this heat, it’s just the right thing to do, I wonder if it’s possible to make sourdough on its basis?

[Lola]

Lola, I have hop cones on my hedge, do you think it is possible to use them for making sourdough? If so, in what form and what kind: green or brown, fresh or dried? I can share a lot of them with all of them.

[Lola]

Lola, I have hop cones ripe on my hedge, do you think it is possible to use them for making sourdough? If so, in what form and what kind: green or brown, fresh or dried? I can share a lot of them with all of them.

Of course, you can use hop cones to make the sourdough! In our suburbs, hops grow with great pleasure, without knowing the troubles. (my mother also has a live hop hedge in the country and this year a very good hop harvest)
There is no fundamental difference in the preparation of sourdough from dry or fresh cones.
So go for it! Good luck in growing the leaven!

By the way, my first starter culture was made from Siberian cones, bought at an exhibition dedicated to herbalists and herbal medicine.

[Making hop sourdough]

Making hop sourdough

Pour one glass of hop cones with two glasses of boiling water and boil for 15-20 minutes. Strain the cooled broth, add a tablespoon of honey and flour until the consistency of thick sour cream. Place in a warm place for fermentation. If liquid forms on the surface, add flour. A sign of the readiness of the sourdough for consumption will be an increase in mass approximately two times, a bubbly structure and a characteristic sour-bitter taste. The ripening time of the starter culture depends on the general temperature of the room and is usually 1.5-2 days. It is necessary to store the starter culture at a temperature of 4-8 ° C, during acidification, revitalize with a small amount of water, flour and a spoonful of honey to the same taste and volume. Just before baking, the sourdough must also be warmed and revitalized. It should be emphasized that many old recipes have been reoriented to modern thermophilic yeast, although earlier they used hop sourdough. Experience shows that it is more correct, as before, to use exactly the hop sourdough for all types of yeast baked goods, from the simplest lean pancakes, cookies and pies to complex milder rolls, Easter cakes, pies and rolls.

Preparation of dry hop starter culture

If you add bran to the decoction of hop cones instead of flour, you can get a dry, long-term storage hop starter culture. To do this, you need to add enough bran so that they absorb all the liquid. Mix thoroughly and leave for 3 days to ferment in a warm place, stirring occasionally. The readiness of this leaven is determined by the appearance of a persistent, very specific, sour odor. After three days, the fermented bran should be scattered in a thin layer on a flat surface (baking sheet, board) to dry. Collect the dried starter culture in an airtight container. The dry starter culture is ready.
When needed, the dry sourdough is revitalized and used for baking. To do this, in the evening, you need to pour 1 teaspoon of the dry mixture with 100 g of warm water, add 1 teaspoon of honey and flour until the consistency of thick sour cream, mix thoroughly and leave in a warm place. In the morning the leaven is ready for use.

Baking bread with hop sourdough (one of the ways)

1200 ml of water, 2 kg of flour, 300 g of sifted bran, 3 tbsp. tablespoons of salt without a slide, 3 tbsp. spoons of hop sourdough, 1 tbsp. spoon of honey, 3 tbsp. tablespoons of vegetable oil for lubricating forms. Exit - 3 rolls.
Preparation
In a bowl for kneading dough, mix water, salt, sourdough, bran and 1/2 part flour. Knead the dough and put in a warm place for 4-6 hours. The dough is ready when the mass increases in volume by 1.5 - 2 times. The rest of the flour is added to the finished dough and the resulting dough is kneaded well. Then divide the dough into 3 parts, put in oiled molds and leave to rise for 2-4 hours. When the bread rises to the edges of the pan, the top of the roll can be greased with butter and baked. The duration and temperature of baking are determined by the characteristics of the oven, usually 35-50 minutes at 200 ° C. When the bread is baked, it is taken out of the mold, wrapped in cloth and sprinkled with water.

Rye bread sweet and sour

“In the morning, boil rye flour with boiling water so that a stick can stand in the dough; beat as best as possible, until the dough sticks to the rolling pin, cover with a towel and put in a warm place; beat with flour in the evening and knead well; the next morning knead again, add the leaven and leave until evening; in the evening, knead again and add a handful of candied fruits; on the third morning, make bread and bake, smearing each bread with hot water and rubbing evenly with your hand; who loves - you can sprinkle with anise, caraway or dill seeds.
Note: the leaven is thick from kvass (hop leaven, brewer's yeast). "
The preparation of sweet and sour rye bread took three days. Why is it so? Everything here is full of meaning and develops according to its own laws. Rye flour was brewed with boiling water in order to prepare and make carbohydrates (flour starch) easy to attack with sourdough enzymes. The next stage is the formation of sugars from starch with the participation of enzymes and their transformation as a result of lactic acid fermentation into alcohol and carbon dioxide, which ensured loosening of the dough during baking and good porosity of the crumb.

Today I put a sourdough from hops, half a day has passed, the sourdough began to bubble, am I on the right track ??? Or is it not talking about anything yet ???

[one. Use a proven sourdough flour. Not all flour makes sourdough. (I didn't start working with "Nastya" hop, but as soon as I added the falconer, the process started) I do not want to say in any way that "Nastya is bad flour - no. I myself often use it and am very pleased, it just seems to be some additives, maybe ascorbic acid ... or something else inhibiting the process.

The producers of "Nastya" now honestly began to write what their flour includes ".. bakery improver" Hello ". I don't know what it is, but apparently it has a bad effect on the leaven

Good day!
Good people, tell me pliz ...
made hop sourdough # 1. she stood with me for 2 days and does not want to get up, although bubbles and a smell are present ...
at the end of the 2nd day I decided to feed it and put it in the warmth ... in the evening of the 3rd day only a crust was formed and so everything is the same ...
Tell me, maybe I'm doing something wrong ???
I use peeled rye flour - Sokolniki

THANK YOU!!!

I made the leaven for the first time, too, it rose from me literally in a day, but it rose so much that wow, and in principle it always rises now, BUT, I have it in a good way, warm, on the windowsill (under it is a battery) , that is, when I take it for baking, the jar is not so warm, but rather even hot. It seems to me that the whole point is in temperature. And I also noticed that it rises better when it is not liquid, there have been such things, namely the consistency, like sour cream. I hope everything will work out for you!
And also, I have unpeeled rye flour.

I made Hp # 1, only on rye flour.

I put it in a slightly preheated oven in the evening. In the morning I found a well-risen mass, decided to feed it as Lola wrote - I brewed rye flour with boiling water, cooled it, mixed it into the sourdough. I put it in a jar more, as it turned out not in vain
After four hours, the leaven crawled to the very top of the liter jar
Well, I think I'll feed you one more last and put it in the refrigerator
I fed it again, put it in a two-liter jar - and again in the oven (the temperature in the oven kept somewhere around 30-35 degrees, maybe even more, that is, the jar was really even hot when I took it out)
Three hours later - leaven on top of the jar
In short, at 20.00 I decided to put a dough for rye bread on it, so that it would rise overnight
I put the required amount in a bowl (3 tablespoons with slides), put the rest of the starter in a liter jar, and closed it with a lid with holes. She has risen by 1 cm in the refrigerator, and so it has calmed down.
BUT! Most of all, I did not expect that the bread rose almost three times (!!!) by 24.00 !!!
I'm in a panic! I was afraid to bend over - the leaven was still fresh, and I had to bake it (I baked it in the oven). I was stunned by the result - fluffy, soft, aromatic rye bread !!!
The taste is slightly bitter, but pleasant.
Total: in a very warm place, with a fairly thick kneading on rye flour - a super-reactive sourdough is obtained!

By the way, the leaven stood in the refrigerator for a week. Today I took it out, put it on the table and went to wait until it gets warm. An hour later, the sourdough in the jar had grown by 2 cm! I'll go feed her ...

Hello!
Can you please tell me how long the hop starter can be kept? I don't keep in the refrigerator for more than a week, it turns sour ...

I read about the nuances of yeast ... I will try to switch completely to starter cultures.
I brewed hops according to the recipe of all tested starter culture No. 1. Insists. How much pure liquid should you get? Who poured how much hops into the glass, otherwise it is so voluminous that I tamped it down a little, should it have been done or not? And when I poured two glasses of water, it somehow seemed to me too little and I added another 50 ml approximately.
And who has tried other recipes for hop starter cultures?

So I put in leaven # 1. On the first day, bubbles appeared, about 2 cm, and peeling began. I quickly stirred it up and on the next day all THIS grew 2.5 times! I went and prepared a supplement. It turned out to be quite difficult. It turned out to be a rather steep dough, I added a spoonful of water to soften it. Stirred the "base". She somehow did not want to settle at all, in contrast to the lactic acid sourdough, which bubbled up like a ball when touched. And this, after my intervention, became like whipped solid foam. Connected. The result is thick sour cream again. I'll wait for poyoma and went to choose a recipe

[what to do with the leaven when it's ready]

Three days ago I also put starter culture # 1. Constantly flaking, adding flour did not help. I threw it away.
Yesterday I did everything EXACTLY according to the recipe (before that I did not boil the broth twice), today I filled up flour and sugar. I hope it works out this time. Temka copied and reread everything, BUT:
please explain the stupid in more detail and in order what to do with the leaven when it's ready? I mean further feeding / baking? I don't understand when to feed and what are my actions before baking? We feed all, leave, then take away? Or we take away-rise-bake, and feed the remainder-rise-take away?

I understood so ...

what to do with the leaven when it's ready?

It seems that it should be ready immediately, after the first batch and the main rise on the second day.

I do not understand when to feed and what are my actions before baking?

You need to feed it after half of the leaven goes to work, and the other half is fed, precipitated and in the cold.

and the rest we feed-rise-take away?

If not right, it would be nice if someone corrected the thread

for some reason everyone tastes hoppy - and raisin, for which attention was bypassed?
Lola, please tell us more about her!

[RybkA]

RybkA , everything is correct!

rms , you are right, the raisin sourdough is really undeservedly forgotten. The sourdough is quick, easy to make and ideal for baked goods and white bread.
But not all raisins can be sourdough! Be careful in this matter!
Black raisins with seeds, with a characteristic (for black grapes) bloom, are best suited for sourdough.The first sourdough from such raisins will turn a little pink (don't be alarmed, it should be so)
Do not use white raisins and glossy (treated with vegetable oil) - a completely useless exercise. Such raisins are ideal for baking, compotes, ... but not for sourdough.
Good luck!

I'll correct you a little - raisins are not processed. oil, and fumigated with sulfur. Such raisins are dangerous to health, although they look beautiful and remain soft. Environmentally friendly raisins, as you rightly noted, have a matte bloom, do not shine, they should also not be yellow - light varieties of raisins turn brown after drying.

[rms]

rms , and fumigated with sulfur and precisely treated with vegetable oil.
Fumigated with sulfur is really dangerous for health (therefore, we will not consider its presence in our kitchen), but "oil" ... its only problem is that it is suitable practically only for baking.

rms , did not quite understand why there was a question about raisin sourdough, if you have already studied this topic?
Isn't it better to open a new topic - raisin sourdough and develop this missing thread on the forum and we will help with our recipes and share our experience

Nice topic.
Also, they just put the starter culture on the hops according to No. 1
Such is the question - what is meant by the phrase - "the leaven will try to escape"?
To run away is to settle down?

[dim102]

dim102 ,

To run away is to settle down?

on the contrary, in the sense of running away from the jar as a result of an increase in the size of the leaven

[Thank you very much for this topic!]

Thank you very much for this topic!
Hop sourdough (# 1) seems to work.
although it did not rise much, once it increased a little less than twice, after which it fell out, a couple of times it was fed with rye flour with boiling water (the place where it stood cannot be called very warm)

and today, on the fourth day, we tried to make dough out of it ..
the dough rose very well!
baked bread from this dough - though in the oven, (they took a recipe for the usual wheat size M from p-255, instead of yeast - 3 tablespoons of sourdough)
For the first time, I think the bread is excellent!
Now the leaven is in the refrigerator, and a couple of questions, if possible -
how long can it be stored
and
advise the recipe for this p-255 bread maker sourdough (I found a few here, but I wanted to be sure)

Thanks again!

Well, how much time has passed, and the hop sourdough lives and works well for itself, we regularly bake bread on it.

I don't know which branch to ask such a question - we put the sourdough dough in a saucepan, on a battery (bake in the oven), and while it rises, by the end of time, a kind of crust forms on top,
when you knead the dough, still very small such lumps remain from this crust?
has everyone had this? and what can be done about it?

I express my gratitude to the author for this topic! I decided to try Hop sourdough No. 1, though I made it on rye wallpaper flour "Belovodye". After reading about the bitterness, I tasted the sourdough itself on my tongue, really poisonous bitter, BUT !!! nevertheless she dared to bake bread with this leaven (on the 4th day, since she was apparently a little thin, and did not "puff", after reading the forum, she corrected it, and on the 3rd or 4th day she worked so that Oh oh oh). There is no bitterness in bread at all !!! Yesterday I made bread according to this recipe: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...om_smf&topic=3410.new#new
It turned out just lick your fingers !!!
The leaven is just a miracle !!! She has been living with me for about 2 weeks, puffs when you wake her up! Works as it should! As I was not afraid to work with her, but there is very little trouble, compared to the fear of these troubles.
dim102, I also have a crust, and after crumpling it remains. It's just that the dough is "weathered" and the top is a little dry. I personally didn't do anything about it. I do this: I make a sourdough dough (about 3-4 hours), then knead the dough overnight, in the morning it rises strongly, knead it, after an hour it rises (to a normal level, not quite high, and holes in the bread, like at the store, small ones come out, which pleases), I turn on the "baking" mode for 1 hour, if it is necessary to be rounder, then for 1 hour 10 minutes.
Once I tried to bake without "cheating", it turned out very porous ... (for those who love, maybe it's better)
But I have recently been in baking ... I have always made dough for pies-buns with my own hands, but we have only been with the oven since the new year. Therefore, if I am wrong, let them correct me.

We put the sourdough dough in a saucepan, on a battery (bake in the oven), and while it rises, by the end of the time a kind of crust forms on top.
has everyone had this? and what can be done about it?

Did you try to cover the saucepan on top with a film (or a bag)?
I know a lady who puts on bathing caps on the forms with dough during proofing, you know, such that when you wash your hair in the shower, you don't get wet. They are on rubber bands - convenient.

I put a bowl of dough in the bag ... and when it is parted, I also put it in the bag ... I have never observed any crust ...

Have you tried covering the saucepan on top with a film (or a bag)?
I know a lady who puts on bathing caps on the forms with dough during proofing, you know, such that when you wash your hair in the shower, you don't get wet. They are on rubber bands - convenient.

covered the saucepan with a simple towel ..
but about a film or a bag I don't even know - after all, probably some kind of air access is needed for the rising dough?

Air access is needed, but you cannot seal it with a bag. Air will be supplied necessarily, but there should be no winding.

Forgive me for the naive question: what does it mean to "precipitate" the leaven? Searching for something helped a little.

apparently stir

apparently stir

Thank you for not ignoring it.
It's just that for a person who has never made a leaven, the answer is not obvious. It can be assumed that this is mixing, and in fact, maybe something needs to be added or added (water, for example, cold.)

I'll correct you a little - raisins are not processed. oil, and fumigated with sulfur. Such raisins are dangerous to health, although they look beautiful and remain soft. Environmentally friendly raisins, as you rightly noted, have a matte bloom, do not shine, they should also not be yellow - light varieties of raisins turn brown after drying.

I've never read the composition of raisins on packages before.
It turns out that it really consists of raisins and vegetable oil.
I even photographed

I have a couple of questions about raisin sourdough. Tell me please:
1. On what flour to start the sourdough (wheat flour? W / s, 1c or 2c? I think rye will definitely not go for baking)
2. In what proportions to feed?
3. What to do with raisins (take them out? When?)